Blu-ray vs. HD DVD Discussion Thread

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I'm going with....

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EWillis
According to the owner of Home Theater Forum who was supposedly an insider on this transaction, Warner was given $620,000,000 in cash and/or incentives to go BD exclusive. In comparison, MS was rumored to give them $500,000,000 including a digital distribution clause.

EDIT: Just in case someone wasn't aware, this deal includes New Line as well since, y'know, Warner owns them.

EDIT2: lolz

Warner: No Payoff for Move to Blu-ray
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There has got to be ways to plausibly deny any compensation they received. Maybe a CPA/Finance major could help out here.

But regarding the HD war in general MS could still very easily gum up these works. It'd be a pretty odd play at this point in time, and would completely show their hand, but let's say they dropped a cool $2 billion into keeping HD-DVD on life support. With such cash they could subsidize for a year or two keeping HD-DVD player's a good $50 to $100 cheaper than the BR counterparts and if they so choose keep the discs $5 to $10 bucks cheaper too. By no means am I predicting that MS will do this, or similar, I'm just saying given their other worldly cash reserves they easily COULD do it. Therefore until MS officially folds I'd still consider this war not yet decided.
 
:shrugs: Even if they were paid to go blu ray it doesn't bother me since M$ always buys **** off to make them look superior. :rolleyes:

About time M$ get a taste of their own medicine.
 
icelt
There has got to be ways to plausibly deny any compensation they received. Maybe a CPA/Finance major could help out here.

But regarding the HD war in general MS could still very easily gum up these works. It'd be a pretty odd play at this point in time, and would completely show their hand, but let's say they dropped a cool $2 billion into keeping HD-DVD on life support. With such cash they could subsidize for a year or two keeping HD-DVD player's a good $50 to $100 cheaper than the BR counterparts and if they so choose keep the discs $5 to $10 bucks cheaper too. By no means am I predicting that MS will do this, or similar, I'm just saying given their other worldly cash reserves they easily COULD do it. Therefore until MS officially folds I'd still consider this war not yet decided.
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There is no way MS would drop $2 BILLION just to make HD-DVD players $100 cheaper for a year. No way. That'd be the biggest waste of money ever. And they're not stupid.

The HD-DVD event at CES was just cancelled because of this announcement for God's sake!

I just received an email from the HD DVD Promotion Group stating that the CES 2008 HD DVD press event has been canceled. The recent Blu-ray exclusive announcement from Warner is cited as the reason for the event being canceled. You can find the full text of the notice below.

Notice of CES Press Conference Cancellation by North American HD DVD Promotion Group

“Based on the timing of the Warner Home Video announcement today, we have decided to postpone our CES 2008 press conference scheduled for Sunday, January 6th at 8:30 p.m. in the Wynn Hotel. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

We are currently discussing the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluating next steps. We believe the consumer continues to benefit from HD DVD’s commitment to quality and affordability – a bar that is critical for the mainstream success of any format.

We’ll continue to keep you updated on new developments around HD DVD.”
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http://wesleytech.com/ces-hd-dvd-event-canceled-due-to-warner-announcement/483/

This day and this announcement is the final blow to HD-DVD. Mark my words. Sure, MS could blow a ton of money and prolong this war, but I think they'd realize that'd be eventually irrelevant and they'd be better off putting said money towards getting their plan for DD dominance into fruition quicker.
 
EWillis
There is no way MS would drop $2 BILLION just to make HD-DVD players $100 cheaper for a year. No way. That'd be the biggest waste of money ever. And they're not stupid.
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As you noted MS's end game is dominating DD, so we're all in agreement there. So if in some very convoluted scenario they decided $2bil invested now reaps $2bil+ 5 years down the road, then hell yeah they'd do it. Can I imagine the precise factors on how that would make sense? I sure as heck cannot. I'm just saying MS is the only wild card left that can/could save HD-DVD. And I think we both agree that they would not be doing for the format's sake, they would only do it to slow down the physical HD media adoption by the public at large.

Anyway... like you said, barring a miracle, this day has marked the end of the HD disc wars. Just the fact that it is likely over is a good thing for all.
 
PS3's have still been selling by the bucket loads and Blueray movies are far far easier to source / rent / buy than HD-DVD's.

In australia at least Blueray is the winner already.
 
I'd be interested to hear what some of my most-trusted tech folks would have to say about this. Problem is, the news coming so late in the week, no one knows exactly what will happen. The whole region-locking thing is still a HUGE problem for a lot of people, and I do have to admit that it was one of my problems as well. It would be interesting to see why Warner chose to go Blu-Ray exclusive, my theory certainly is that the players are becoming more popular, but that being said, I've seen quite the upswing on HD-DVD player sales as well.

...I still won't take a side. Upconverting DVD players and dual-format players are going to be the key here for quite some time...

Here's to a format war that will split more than one industry again!
 
Quite right, I did some research on Digg (and the like) and they were coming up with the magic $500M mark as well. Goes to show that money can buy anything these days, and according to what I was reading, they're trying to pull Fox in as well. Odd, as it was reported that Warner was trying to convince Fox to sign an exclusive HD-DVD deal, essentially splitting the industry in two.

Ugh, I hate it...

EDIT:

Removed a quote from the Revision3/Totally Rad Show forums. A bit of banter on there later made it a bit inappropriate, but to generalize his basic arguement:

Until Sony (or whoever) gets their player down to $99, we really can't say outright that there is a clear winner. The two formats really aren't better than one another when it comes to movies, they both deliver the same 1080p experience (increased capacity or not, whats it being used for with the Blu-Ray?). Studio support is being bought off on both sides, which is rather sad as well.

Ugh, nobody wins. Its as simple as that.
 
YSSMAN
It would be interesting to see why Warner chose to go Blu-Ray exclusive,
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because it beat HDDVD in sales for 52 weeks straight, outsold hdvd 2:1 many times in the US and 3:1 worldwide. ?


now just need the last 2 studios to get in the last life boat so i can get serenity on blu-ray.
 
Fox hasn't released it on Blu-Ray yet? I thought they were dual-format?
 
YSSMAN
Until Sony (or whoever) gets their player down to $99, we really can't say outright that there is a clear winner. The two formats really aren't better than one another when it comes to movies, they both deliver the same 1080p experience (increased capacity or not, whats it being used for with the Blu-Ray?). Studio support is being bought off on both sides, which is rather sad as well.

Ugh, nobody wins. Its as simple as that.
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To be honest I don't buy the $99 player argument at all, cheap HD-DVD players have not helped HD-DVD discs sales at all, with many industry observers believing that people are buying them as cheap DVD up-scalers rather than HD-DVD players. Its a logic I can understand, someone who is looking to get a player for a very low price is not the sort of person who will then go out and spend more for a film on a HD format than on DVD.

Personally as a home cinema nut I just hope this ends sooner, rather than later. After all the entire war is now starting to hurt disc sales full stop.


Regards

Scaff
 
Right, as I think most of us know/understand that downloadable formats will likely become the leading ways to get your movies/tv/etc in the near-future. For folks like my father however, who cares enough to have the new stuff, but isn't into the finite details, he wants to know which is cheaper and which will last him longer.

So far, I haven't given him an answer either way.

Meh, I'm not that worried about it. Netflix carries both formats, so once I do decide, I don't have to worry too much. I won't be buying the add-on for the 360 however, that just seems pointless now. Hmmmm. I probably won't make a decision until I buy a PS3 next Christmas with GT5...
 
I think part of the problem here for HD DVD is that when Paramount went over to HD DVD as an exclusive format the press were saying that this would delay the end of the format war and that it made things more difficult for Blu-ray. However with the WB/New Line move to Blu-ray the press are already announcing the death of HD DVD and the end of the war. Now its this kind of press that will cause HD DVD as much damage (if not more) than the actual loss of titles.

All in needs is for the mainstream media to pick up on the piece's at CNET about the end of the format war and that people should think carefully before getting a HD DVD player, if these stories get wide coverage that will bury HD DVD.

Regards

Scaff
 
They've already spread. I was looking at some numbers today.. HD-DVD sales on Amazon have dropped like a rock in the last two days. It wouldn't surprise me if the January sales numbers were something like 5-to-1 or higher in favor of Blu-ray. And the more that happens, the more people will continue saying that the war is over.

The difference between Warner and Paramount is twofold.. for one, Warner is a much bigger presence in the HD industry, they've been perhaps the single biggest supporter of both HD formats. They're taking a much larger percentage of films with them than Paramount did. Blu-ray now has over 70% of Hollywood exclusive. Secondly, they're not screwing over HD-DVD nearly as bad as Paramount screwed over Blu-ray... at least Warner is decent enough to release the remainder of their announced HD-DVDs over the next few months. Paramount's drop was immediate, cancelling titles that were only a week away from release.. in some cases, that had already been sent to stores, they were ordered to not sell them and to send them back. That was much more of a ***-****ing than what Warner is doing. Maybe not everybody sees it that way, but still.. I'll say ya'll are getting off better than we did when Paramount left.
 
V1P3R
That's their own damn fault... I have no sympathy for them.
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A fair point to level at quite a few player in this game, but not (in my opinion) Warner. They have done more than most to try and support both formats, keep in mind they did try and market dual format discs and have, as has been said above, been more than fair about the end of HD DVD production of their films.

Regards

Scaff
 
EWillis
There's a decent chance MS is going to announce an HD-DVD built-in X360 at CES – if true, that will be the funniest thing to happen this year.
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Was that supposed to be in this event?
EWillis
The HD-DVD event at CES was just cancelled because of this announcement for God's sake!
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icelt
So at least for the time being you BBC importers out there still don't have to worry about getting forced to use region locked BR. That may not last long though.
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I don't know how long the BBC stuff will last. At least in my area I couldn't find Planet Earth on BD around Christmas, but there was an open spot for it on the shelf. Sold out. The HD-DVD version however was in good supply.

Scaff
All in needs is for the mainstream media to pick up on the piece's at CNET about the end of the format war and that people should think carefully before getting a HD DVD player, if these stories get wide coverage that will bury HD DVD.
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I am afraid the CNet stuff may confuse some people because they are saying to wait because of gaming and PC issues involved. They even went on to say the 360 used HD-DVD, not explaining it was just a movie player. So to those not up-to-date they may think that HD-DVD will be saved because of its gaming applications on the more popular console (which do not exist) when it really is just a movie and PC storage format so far with BD having more applications.


Personally, I thought HD-DVD was done when Disney signed on to Blu-Ray. Disney animated movies are the only ones that I can find in almost every single home. While many will have a good collection of a certain type of movie that they prefer Disney films seem to hit with everyone. And the released only once every seven years thing seems to make everyone buy it because they won't have a rental option in two years.



Personal aside: I bought my first Blu-Ray movie(s) last week. I had waited to see if Transformers (yes, even though I nitpicked it to death) would go BD since Bay hates HD-DVD and Spielberg's titles are not included in the HD-DVD exclusivity agreements, but alas it went HD-DVD. So then I had to wait until after Christmas to make sure I didn't already get something. I was flipping a coin between the Spiderman trilogy or Planet Earth and since Planet Earth wasn't in stock it was the Spiderman Trilogy. I only had the first Spiderman on DVD so this worked out well, except my Spiderman DVD has more features than the BD. Dude, where's my pop-up trivia?

Oh well, the Spiderman 2 disc has both Spiderman 2 and Spiderman 2.1, so I got more there.

Now, I'm hoping the Independence Day BD will be good since I never got that on DVD.
 
im still hoping/waiting on transformers/batman release on blu-ray.

im glad the format war is over, sad some people have invested in the losing side but hey thats the gamble everyone knew about in the beginning. or at least most people knew one or the other format will die off.
 
Found some more articles about the latest news...




TOKYO, Jan 8 (Reuters) - Paramount studios is poised to drop its support of the high-definition DVD (HD DVD) format after Warner Bros studio said it would back the competing Blu-ray format, the Financial Times reported on Tuesday.

The loss of support from Paramount, which is owned by Viacom Inc (VIAb.N: Quote, Profile, Research), would likely deal the final blow to the HD DVD format backed by Toshiba Corp (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) and put an end to the format war, the newspaper said on its Web site.

Time Warner Inc's (TWX.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Warner Bros studio on Friday said it would exclusively release high-definition DVDs in Sony Corp's (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) Blu-ray format, marking a major setback to the HD DVD camp. [ID:nN04446354]

Blu-ray discs outsold HD DVD by nearly two-to-one in the United States last year, but HD DVD had secured major allies in August when Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc said they would go exclusively with HD DVD.

But Paramount is understood to have a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp that would allow it to change sides if Warner Bros backed Blu-ray, the Financial Times said, citing people familiar with the situation. (Reporting by Nathan Layne)



More News:



Just two days before Bill Gates' Consumer Electronics Show keynote, Microsoft's chosen next-generation video format suffered a major setback. Late Friday, movie and television studio Warner Bros. announced that it is discontinuing its support of the HD DVD format, and will release its high-definition home-video offerings solely on Blu-ray Disc beginning this coming May. Currently, the company, which controls nearly 18 to 20 percent of the US home-video market, supports both Blu-ray and HD DVD.

"Warner Bros.' move to exclusively release in the Blu-ray Disc format is a strategic decision focused on the long term," said Barry Meyer, Warner Bros.' chairman and CEO, in a statement. "The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass-market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers."

Warner Bros. joins a host of other movie studios--including the Walt Disney Company, 20th Century Fox, and Lionsgate--who are backing the Blu-ray format. More importantly for gamers, Blu-ray was created by Sony, which has included an internal Blu-ray Disc drive as part of all four PlayStation 3 models released since November 2006. Besides movie studios Universal and Paramount, HD DVD is backed by Microsoft, which released an external HD DVD drive for the Xbox 360 in November 2006. It recently denied rumors that it is working on a version of the Xbox 360 that would have an internal HD DVD drive.

Toshiba, which led development of HD DVD at the same time it was partnering with Sony to create the PS3's cell processor, was openly shocked by today's events. "Toshiba is quite surprised by Warner Bros.' decision to abandon HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray, despite the fact that there are various contracts in place between our companies concerning the support of HD DVD," the company said in a terse statement. "We were particularly disappointed that this decision was made in spite of the significant momentum HD DVD has gained in the US market as well as other regions in 2007. HD DVD players and PCs have outsold Blu-ray in the US market in 2007."
 
It seems that the Blu-ray camp might have a problem with the upgradability (is that a word?) of Blu-ray players...

Article...

However, it is good news for PS3 owners...

The only Blu-ray player which can (be) upgraded to use all the features is Sony's PlayStation 3, because it comes with the right hardware built-in and online access.
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:lol: oh man... I was at Fry's today, I saw an uniformed moron look at the HDDVD player ($149) and Blu Ray player ($549), he proceeded to pick up and buy the HDDVD player.
 
Some people just don't have the money to spend on a Blue Ray, I know if I didn't have the PS3 there is no way I would buy a Blue Ray player...even though it looks really cool.
 
Other than a PS3 for the blu ray why would you buy one in the first place??


1. If he can upgrade to HD then he has an HDTV so he can afford it.

Or

2. He's suckered into one by impulse and the fact that it is "cheap" to him.
 
I bought the PS3 because I thought I would like the game selection, that's another thread though. I do like the Blue Ray though, although I have not seen any sort of film on the HD DVD so I can not really compare.
 
Solid Lifters
TOKYO, Jan 8 (Reuters) - Paramount studios is poised to drop its support of the high-definition DVD (HD DVD) format after Warner Bros studio said it would back the competing Blu-ray format, the Financial Times reported on Tuesday.
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Paramount seems to be denying this now, but after the Warner Brothers ditching HD DVD format, who knows what might take place next?

One thing's for sure: As soon as Paramount leave the "HD" camp, it's game over for HD DVD, at least in the United States.
 

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