BMW 1-series coupe (spy pics)

[TheCracker]

I can see why you might desire a lighter BMW coupe now the 3-series has put on a few extra pounds - but it still weighs considerably more than the old E30 that people are comparing it to. I can also see that you guys think it will rival Acura TSXs, Mustangs V6's, Jetta's, RX-8's, Audi A3's etc etc. BUT all these cars have something that the 1-series doesn't have - rear leg room. We only get the 5 door over here, when an average sized person sits up front there is almost literally no rear leg space at all. An RX-8 looks limo-like in comparison. The coupe version will be even worse, it will cut down the 5 door's headroom too. This car will be a two seat coupe, which puts it into Nissan 350z territory.

Its ugly too:

 

[///M-Spec]

Totally different groups of people, IMO. Quote #1 is the average schmuck. Quote #2 is a Grassroots Motorsports subscriber.

Well, let's be fair to the 'average schmuck' for a minute.

He decides he wants to spend about $30,000 for a new fun, stylish car to be used for a daily driver. For that money, there are a number nice cars out there. One Japanese car is mid-sized, well equipped, looks nice if not a little bland, has a nice interior, rides and handles well and has a powerful V6 making around 250 horsepower.

Or he can buy a German sub-compact that is only well equipped if he spends more money, looks weird, has a cheap looking interior, rides and handles at the top of it's class but comes with a high strung 4 that makes 170 horsepower.

Would he be a schmuck if he bought the Japanese V6 or the German 4?

For every BMW owner who has a stack of GRMs on his magazine shelf, there are another 100 who don't track their car, couldn't tell you the difference between castor and camber and would describe their 330i or 530i has having "a V6". Does not being an enthusiast make them schmucks?

Let's not forget the 'schmucks' out there make BMWs affordable for the rest of us. If BMW only built cars for you, me, Duke, Scaff and the GRM guy, they would only sell a couple of hundred a month and a 325 would cost $89,000.


M

 

[m7ammed]

...In terms of RWD competition, there isn't any to speak of. A V6 in an M-Sport version of the 1-series ........

I said that I won't post but I had , BMW makes I6s its a trade mark of BMW and just had to correct it for other people that read this thread lol

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, obviously I know well-enough to say 'I6' but it would appear as though I wasn't paying enough attention to make it right. Oh well, my mistake...

 

[m7ammed]

Well, obviously I know well-enough to say 'I6' but it would appear as though I wasn't paying enough attention to make it right. Oh well, my mistake...

I know you do , its just other people might not

 

[harrytuttle]

BMW doesn't really need this car, but it will sell nonetheless. There are two groups who will buy it: those who want a Miata alternative (the thing is tiny!), and those who want the cheapest BMW they can afford, especially if there's a convertible option, which looks inevitable.

A 135i (the turbo 3.0L) would be way too front-heavy. A 4-cylinder turbo setup would work much better (a la 2002 Turbo). But more importantly, a 1-series CSL would be fantastic. It would steal some thunder from the standard E92 M3, but not if there was a M3 CSL. If any of this does occur, given BMW's usual pace, we won't see anything truly exciting until 2010.

 

[Wolfe]

Well, let's be fair to the 'average schmuck' for a minute.

He decides he wants to spend about $30,000 for a new fun, stylish car to be used for a daily driver. For that money, there are a number nice cars out there. One Japanese car is mid-sized, well equipped, looks nice if not a little bland, has a nice interior, rides and handles well and has a powerful V6 making around 250 horsepower.

Or he can buy a German sub-compact that is only well equipped if he spends more money, looks weird, has a cheap looking interior, rides and handles at the top of it's class but comes with a high strung 4 that makes 170 horsepower.

Would he be a schmuck if he bought the Japanese V6 or the German 4?

For every BMW owner who has a stack of GRMs on his magazine shelf, there are another 100 who don't track their car, couldn't tell you the difference between castor and camber and would describe their 330i or 530i has having "a V6". Does not being an enthusiast make them schmucks?

Let's not forget the 'schmucks' out there make BMWs affordable for the rest of us. If BMW only built cars for you, me, Duke, Scaff and the GRM guy, they would only sell a couple of hundred a month and a 325 would cost $89,000.


M

That's not what I meant. Don't get me wrong -- the 1-series is hyper-expensive for what it is, looks ugly in any trim except for the 3-door, and is pretty much pointless even with the 3-series' extra size and weight.
Hell, you can get a car that is the same size as the E30 and weighs as much as an E30 -- the E30 -- for much, much less money. It'll also be more attractive, roomier (1980's crash safety and sound-proofing = more interior space than a modern car of the same size), and better-appreciated by fellow BMW enthusiasts. Among other things. If you're a wuss and the E30 is too old for you, you can go for an E36 or E46, too.

However, I still stand by my opinion that anyone who is power-obsessed and sneers at a 4-cylinder is a schmuck, and I definitely stand by my opinion that american buyers who "want a light, uncomplicated, driver oriented RWD car with a good power to weight ratio and excellent handling," even in the BMW enthusiast community, are a distinct minority. That's all I was saying.

 

[///M-Spec]

That's not what I meant. Don't get me wrong -- the 1-series is hyper-expensive for what it is, looks ugly in any trim except for the 3-door, and is pretty much pointless even with the 3-series' extra size and weight.

I have to admit I have trouble seeing the point of it as well, especially after thinking the car through in light of the US market in this thread. It seems the strongest argument I keep hearing from people (other Bimwads) who are excited about this car is that it weighs 300-400 lbs. less than an E90.

Doesn't bode well for a car when people are excited about what it ISN'T.

Hell, you can get a car that is the same size as the E30 and weighs as much as an E30 -- the E30 -- for much, much less money. It'll also be more attractive, roomier (1980's crash safety and sound-proofing = more interior space than a modern car of the same size), and better-appreciated by fellow BMW enthusiasts. Among other things. If you're a wuss and the E30 is too old for you, you can go for an E36 or E46, too.

You know; my first BMW was an E30. So I can easily see why you clearly love yours.

But saying someone is a 'wuss' because they wouldn't care to own a car that is --at the absolute youngest, 15 years old... I don't really see that argument at all.

If you want to take owning a classic BMW as a badge of pride, far be it for me to stop you. The E30 has many fine qualities and I always look back fondly on mine.

But criticizing people who do not share your taste in antique automobiles... In my view, that makes you absolutely no different than people who sneer at 4 cylinders just because they are 4 cylinders.

I sold my E30, a 135,000 mile Eta powered 325 years ago for an E36 325is. I did it because the car I loved cost me over $2,500 in repairs in one year and I resented spending 35% of the car's net value just to keep it running.

The 325is was (much) faster, handled better, looked better, more comfortable, cost me nothing but gas, oil and plugs the whole time I had it and peeled the skirts off the ladies faster than the changing room at The Gap. Would you care to explain to me how that makes me a wuss?

However, I still stand by my opinion that anyone who is power-obsessed and sneers at a 4-cylinder is a schmuck,

Well don't you think it all depends on why the schmuck sneers? Or IF he is sneering at all? Maybe he's just expressing a preference. You know, you can choose one thing over another and not think the other thing blows.

If someone says to me, "the S2000 is a crappy, slow car because it only has a torqueless 4 banger", I might be inclined to think this person doesn't know much about cars. Or perhaps he is only interested in a penis substitute on wheels. Or maybe he is, indeed, just a schmuck.

But if someone else to me, "I'm not really interested in the S2000 because for just a little more money, I can get a 350Z vert that makes a lot more power and drives almost as nice".

How can anyone argue this? Is there a problem with wanting more for your money? This person isn't sneering. He's just saying if all else is practically equal, he'd rather have more power. Or more torque.

Let me ask you this: if someone offered to trade you an M20 E30 --say, a '90 325is 5-speed in mint condition for your 318, would you turn him down?

Let me tie it all back to the 1-series and how 4 cylinder BMWs are perceived in the US: most US buyers don't want a 4 cylinder BMW anymore because they don't offer enough value for the money when compared to what they can find in a Mercedes, Infiniti, Cadilliac, Acura or Lexus.

If BMW offered the 120i for Civic prices or if the N46 made 235 hp and 200 lb-ft, then YES, you'd be a schmuck to sneer. But that ain't gonna happen. For the prices they want, BMW had better bring a gun to gunfight.

and I definitely stand by my opinion that american buyers who "want a light, uncomplicated, driver oriented RWD car with a good power to weight ratio and excellent handling," even in the BMW enthusiast community, are a distinct minority. That's all I was saying.

Okay.

In the original post, I wrote that in response to TheCracker who wondered what differentiation there was between a 1er and 3er coupe. The difference, of course is weight and that there are, as hard to believe as it sounds, people who LOVE the idea of this car coming to the US. No, there's probably not a whole bunch of them, but they exist.


M

 

[YSSMAN]

Most of those window-lickers over at Motor Trend have been going nuts for years over the possibility of getting the 1-series in the US, but I think most of the sane people in the automotive world have reserved their skepticism. Certainly, it will be a 'good' car given that it is a BMW, but unless they are planning to sell it for a lot less than what they currently do elswhere, I just cannot see it being remotely successful, much less a reasonable alternative to anything else in the market. Sure, the bozos at Motor Trend who line-up to lick boot for anyone who pays them will love the car, and chances are that a good majority of the unrealistic BMW fan-base will go crazy for the model...

For the rest of us, I think we're going to be more than happy for our 'premium' compacts from Acura, Audi, VW, etc...

As some minger from San Diego wrote:

Is this REALLY happening??

Oh gee....this changes ALL of my plans.....................

Good luck at the Audi dealer!

 

[Wolfe]

You know; my first BMW was an E30. So I can easily see why you clearly love yours.

But saying someone is a 'wuss' because they wouldn't care to own a car that is --at the absolute youngest, 15 years old... I don't really see that argument at all.

If you want to take owning a classic BMW as a badge of pride, far be it for me to stop you. The E30 has many fine qualities and I always look back fondly on mine.

But criticizing people who do not share your taste in antique automobiles... In my view, that makes you absolutely no different than people who sneer at 4 cylinders just because they are 4 cylinders.

I sold my E30, a 135,000 mile Eta powered 325 years ago for an E36 325is. I did it because the car I loved cost me over $2,500 in repairs in one year and I resented spending 35% of the car's net value just to keep it running.

The 325is was (much) faster, handled better, looked better, more comfortable, cost me nothing but gas, oil and plugs the whole time I had it and peeled the skirts off the ladies faster than the changing room at The Gap. Would you care to explain to me how that makes me a wuss?

Forgive me for forgetting the smilie. The statement was intended as tongue-in-cheek. Sometimes I feel like I'm one of the few people who actually likes the very newest BMWs, styling (for most) and all.

However, I must say I dislike people who throw out the idea of owning a 10+ year-old car altogether, not even considering it for a moment, and would rather send one to the junkyard to be crushed than drive it to work for one day.

Well don't you think it all depends on why the schmuck sneers? Or IF he is sneering at all? Maybe he's just expressing a preference. You know, you can choose one thing over another and not think the other thing blows.

By saying "power-obsessed," in my eyes you're implying the sort of person who can't for the life of them understand how ANYONE in their right mind would want to drive a car that can't break 60mph in less than 7 seconds, regardless of whether it's a 2300lbs. compact or a 4500lbs. SUV. The sort of person who laughs at and makes fun of Europeans for driving "slow-ass pieces of crap." The person who regards the lesser trim of any model as a complete waste of time, or made specifically for women/gay people/old people.

Let me ask you this: if someone offered to trade you an M20 E30 --say, a '90 325is 5-speed in mint condition for your 318, would you turn him down?

Yes, in fact. Aside from the personal attachment, I'd rather have a 2400lbs. car with a bulletproof engine that gets up to 33mpg than a 2800lbs. car with a rubber timebomb. In fact, the lower weight, better fuel economy, and timing chain were what attracted me to the 318i in the first place.

Any other BMW? Straight-six all the way. E30? 4-cylinders only, please.

 

[///M-Spec]

Forgive me for forgetting the smilie. The statement was intended as tongue-in-cheek. Sometimes I feel like I'm one of the few people who actually likes the very newest BMWs, styling (for most) and all.

Alright. Glad to see you weren't entirely serious. For a minute I thought you were one of those "old cars rule, all new cars suck and people who buy them are stupid" kind of people.

However, I must say I dislike people who throw out the idea of owning a 10+ year-old car altogether, not even considering it for a moment, and would rather send one to the junkyard to be crushed than drive it to work for one day.

The average car buyer doesn't want to spend time dealing with repairs. Trips to the service dept or indy mechanic take time out of peoples' day and can be a real disruption. They also don't entirely understand cars mechanically and have a fear of being taken to the cleaners by said service dept/mechanic. This is entirely understandable. Lots of people hate being told their car needs XYZ done for an ABCD price, especially when it is unexpected and expensive.

Not everyone is an enthusiast. Not everyone is interested in investing the time and energy in learning about cars the way most people here at GTP have. I respect people who wrench their own cars, but I don't think less of anyone who hasn't a clue about changing their own oil.

Do you really dislike people who aren't interested in keeping up with a 10 year old car? Is this some kind of character defect?

By saying "power-obsessed," in my eyes you're implying the sort of person who can't for the life of them understand how ANYONE in their right mind would want to drive a car that can't break 60mph in less than 7 seconds, regardless of whether it's a 2300lbs. compact or a 4500lbs. SUV. The sort of person who laughs at and makes fun of Europeans for driving "slow-ass pieces of crap." The person who regards the lesser trim of any model as a complete waste of time, or made specifically for women/gay people/old people.

I think this is an extreme example. Obviously not not everyone who buys a car in America fits that description. If my words aren't a good representation of US buyers, I can change them.

How about most American car buyers are "very aware of horsepower"? Or "view horsepower as primary consideration" or "horsepower sensitive"...

..when buying a performance oriented "lifestyle" car? (such as the topic of our discussion, a BMW Coupe)

Again. I think you're leaping to a lot of unwarranted conclusions about people. We're talking about a lot of people here. Hundreds of thousands of people buy $30-40k sporty cars every year in this country every year, not to mention all the people who already own one. Surely they're not all a$%^@#s.

Yes, I know from your past posts that you consider yourself a misanthrope. That is why you like to think the worst about people. In this way you remind me of myself when I was younger; cynical, self-righteous, judgmental, angry at the world for constantly failing to live up to my expectations. Then one day I woke up and realized that all the people I was mad at was actually me and being pissed off at everyone was just my way of dealing with my own insecurities. After all, if I can assume everyone around me was an a&*%$!#, I wouldn't quite feel so inadequate myself.

But I digress. Enough Dr. Phil for now. I'm not going to change your mind about people in general. That's really up to you; whether or not. But you seem like a smart guy and if I could convince you to hate people a little less, it's worth a shot.

Yes, in fact. Aside from the personal attachment, I'd rather have a 2400lbs. car with a bulletproof engine that gets up to 33mpg than a 2800lbs. car with a rubber timebomb. In fact, the lower weight, better fuel economy, and timing chain were what attracted me to the 318i in the first place.

Any other BMW? Straight-six all the way. E30? 4-cylinders only, please.

Fair enough. I respect your consistency.


M

 

[Wolfe]

Alright. Glad to see you weren't entirely serious. For a minute I thought you were one of those "old cars rule, all new cars suck and people who buy them are stupid" kind of people.

Well, the people who buy cars 100% brand new are stupid (or have too much money), but that's okay, because they're the ones that turn around and sell the cars 1-5 years later, allowing the rest of us to have newish cars for about half the money they spent.

The average car buyer doesn't want to spend time dealing with repairs. Trips to the service dept or indy mechanic take time out of peoples' day and can be a real disruption. They also don't entirely understand cars mechanically and have a fear of being taken to the cleaners by said service dept/mechanic. This is entirely understandable. Lots of people hate being told their car needs XYZ done for an ABCD price, especially when it is unexpected and expensive.

Not everyone is an enthusiast. Not everyone is interested in investing the time and energy in learning about cars the way most people here at GTP have. I respect people who wrench their own cars, but I don't think less of anyone who hasn't a clue about changing their own oil.

Do you really dislike people who aren't interested in keeping up with a 10 year old car? Is this some kind of character defect?

Any 10 year old car that gives people all kinds of trouble in terms of repairs and up-keep was either poorly engineered, poorly built, or very poorly maintained. That, or the owner is being too fussy with really minor things ("I've taken my car to the dealership three times now, and the map light keeps going out!").

Regardless, the apparent hyperbole in my original statement wasn't just for fun (if you read it again). If someone considers an older car but chooses a newer one instead, or wishes they could justify owning an older car, or would rather see an old car go to an owner that would appreciate it than to a junkyard to be crushed, they're alright.

I think this is an extreme example.

Unfortunately, I based it on a former GTP member (banned, of course). So it's not that extreme.

Obviously not not everyone who buys a car in America fits that description. If my words aren't a good representation of US buyers, I can change them.

How about most American car buyers are "very aware of horsepower"? Or "view horsepower as primary consideration" or "horsepower sensitive"...

..when buying a performance oriented "lifestyle" car? (such as the topic of our discussion, a BMW Coupe)

Again. I think you're leaping to a lot of unwarranted conclusions about people. We're talking about a lot of people here. Hundreds of thousands of people buy $30-40k sporty cars every year in this country every year, not to mention all the people who already own one. Surely they're not all a$%^@#s.

Of course. Not all american consumers and not all sportscar buyers are power-obsessed idiots. I never said all of them were.

Still, your original choice of "power-obsessed," along with my definition of it as such, are both correct in my eyes. It just applies to, as I said, the average schmuck, rather than 100% of the population. Or am I weird for thinking that an american that thinks "power isn't everything" is special?

It's no accident that our family cars have 3.0L V6s, while everyone else gets by with 1.5L 4-cylinders, diesels, etc.

Yes, I know from your past posts that you consider yourself a misanthrope. That is why you like to think the worst about people. In this way you remind me of myself when I was younger; cynical, self-righteous, judgmental, angry at the world for constantly failing to live up to my expectations. Then one day I woke up and realized that all the people I was mad at was actually me and being pissed off at everyone was just my way of dealing with my own insecurities. After all, if I can assume everyone around me was an a&*%$!#, I wouldn't quite feel so inadequate myself.

But I digress. Enough Dr. Phil for now. I'm not going to change your mind about people in general. That's really up to you; whether or not. But you seem like a smart guy and if I could convince you to hate people a little less, it's worth a shot.


M

Maybe when I get a job that doesn't involve dealing with the public, or if I move out of this country.

Until then, I'm going to continue to be bitter, because I'm inevitably going to continue getting questions like, "do you have a calculator? What's 100 minus 13?" at work. And they're going to continue making me feel like I died a little inside.

You can all take comfort in the fact that if my customers were all at least as intelligent and well-mannered as the average GTP user, I'd be much happier.

 

[///M-Spec]

Well, the people who buy cars 100% brand new are stupid (or have too much money), but that's okay, because they're the ones that turn around and sell the cars 1-5 years later, allowing the rest of us to have newish cars for about half the money they spent.

Well, I promised I was done trying to change your mind about people. So I'll just say that I disagree and that you paint with too broad a brush. Lots of perfectly smart people buy brand new cars. They just have different priorities than you do.

Any 10 year old car that gives people all kinds of trouble in terms of repairs and up-keep was either poorly engineered, poorly built, or very poorly maintained. That, or the owner is being too fussy with really minor things ("I've taken my car to the dealership three times now, and the map light keeps going out!").

Then by that definition, my E30 was all of the above except for the 'poorly maintained' bit. It nearly bankrupted me to maintain it.

Unfortunately, I based it on a former GTP member (banned, of course). So it's not that extreme.

Dude, he got banned. That should tell you enough.

Of course. Not all american consumers and not all sportscar buyers are power-obsessed idiots. I never said all of them were.

Still, your original choice of "power-obsessed," along with my definition of it as such, are both correct in my eyes. It just applies to, as I said, the average schmuck, rather than 100% of the population. Or am I weird for thinking that an american that thinks "power isn't everything" is special?

Hey, I offered to change/refine/clarify my words. American buyers like power. If the average car buyer looks at two cars that are similar except one makes more power than the other, they will generally pick the more powerful one. And I still say there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

It's no accident that our family cars have 3.0L V6s, while everyone else gets by with 1.5L 4-cylinders, diesels, etc.

It's also no accident that our country is HUGE, gas is cheap and plentiful and everything is far apart and connected by long straight roads. ...compared to everyone else.

Maybe when I get a job that doesn't involve dealing with the public, or if I move out of this country.

Until then, I'm going to continue to be bitter, because I'm inevitably going to continue getting questions like, "do you have a calculator? What's 100 minus 13?" at work. And they're going to continue making me feel like I died a little inside.

You can all take comfort in the fact that if my customers were all at least as intelligent and well-mannered as the average GTP user, I'd be much happier.

Well if I can be cynical and self-righteous for a minute (since old habits sometimes die hard) you work in an arcade. That's not exactly a mecca for Mensa members and Ph.D. candidates.


M

 

[KSaiyu]

I don't get it.

 

[YSSMAN]

Who wants more on the "M1" (or 135i)?

Two new images snapped by an amateur photographer show what could be BMW's high-performance 135i M coupe. Earlier this month, we brought you the most revealing photos to date of the regular 1-Series coupe, but this latest car is clearly something different.

The red car shown in our two latest photos — courtesy of 1Addicts — has a distinctive front bumper reminiscent of BMW's other "M" offerings. While we don't believe this is a full-fledged "M1," it appears to be an performance-oriented variant of some description.

Our best bet — based on years of rumors and speculation — is that this car is a 135i, featuring the same twin-turbo 3.0-liter powerplant as BMW's 335i.

There's a good chance the car captured in March by Brenda Priddy & Company is the same vehicle shown in these latest photos. Those earlier photos did not reveal the front of the coupe, which surely would have tipped us to its "M" identity.

...This may become one of the worst-kept secrets in the automotive industry. If they're going to do it, they may as well just say so. Furthermore, it wouldn't hurt to let the BMW fans here in North America know if we're getting the 1-series coupe or not.

 

[Jim Prower]

a one-thirty-Five-whut?

330-some horsepower...in a car with a wheelbase that's (speculation) shorter than the Z4.

Snaparound, anyone?

 

[Azuremen]

No, just an awesome autocross/club car. Snap around is really only an issue in MR cars I find, or in FR when the person doesn't understand that the gas and brake pedals are not binary.

Would be freaking awesome to have over here I would think, and a blast to drive.

 

[Jim Prower]

I guess, though I've heard some SWB '70s FRs with big engines exhibited snap-oversteer.

 

[///M-Spec]

It looks like near-production test mule of a 135i M Sport. The front bumper/airdam looks like a standard "M Sport" item, which is the equivalant of the US ZSP ("sport package") in most EU markets.

The biggest hint this is not a full "M" is the chrome strip around the side windows. M cars do not use chrome, but instead have "shadowline" trim there, which is a high-gloss black painted metal.

That being said, production M Sport models don't usually have the chrome either and also use shadowline around the windows. Like I said: this must be a test mule; probably for endurance testing.

Snap oversteer shouldn't be a problem on this car; it has the 5 link rear suspension from the E46/E90 and NO LSD. A spinning inside tire should keep the tail in check.


M

 

[Onikaze]

How many people are going to be interested in a quirky little BMW Coupe as is?

How many of them are going to pay for the 3.0 TT six?

How many out of that group would really be moronic enough to encounter snap oversteer regularly?

How many of us remembered that the BMW 1 series was a very nicely balanced little car every time it was reviewed, but seemed to need a little more oomph?

Oomph indeed.

 

[YSSMAN]

I dunno. Personally speaking, the most I'd pay for a car like this would be $30K, and the turbo motor certainly does not support those expectations. If they put in the middle-road straight six from the 328i, I'd be happy enough. That is of course if they could peg the price right around $27K.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I figured the giveaway that this isn't an M was the lack of quad exhausts...

That being said, I'm liking the look of the 1-coupe. I was skeptical when I heard about it because it seems too small to really turn into one. But this isn't too bad at all, a very nicely proportioned (other than the huge headlights), dare I say "pretty", car. Of course, if it was given a super-butch overhaul and turned into a stripped-out club car, that'd be badass too .

 

[TopHat]

I actually really like the way this and the E90 coupe look.

BUT I would not pay any more than 26K for a 120i.