BMW 6 series?

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Originally posted by M5Power


Why not? There are better cars but it's among the best in class.
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The359 and i was refering too how PorscheC4 only liked europeon cars
 
Originally posted by VIPERGTSR01
The359 and i was refering too how PorscheC4 only liked europeon cars
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Oh, I thought he had switched his mind before you two had replied.

This is funny, though:

PorscheC4, 10:45pm: I only like European cars.
PorscheC4, 11:27pm: I like European and Japanese cars.
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Imagine what he could do in a day.
 
Originally posted by PorscheC4
I like European and Japanese cars. The thing is M-Spec and all you others my dad will give me the Porsche he has and then buy himself a new one if I did not make that clear.
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Yep. You did make it clear.

Originally posted by PorscheC4
M-Spec, even though my dads car is a conv. it only weights about 3100 or 3200 pounds. So actually extremely light for a convert. [/B]
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It is closer to 3,300 for a 996 C4S Cab.. 3,400 for the Tiptronic version. (Still, its not too bad) If I had 100,000k to spend and I wanted a Porsche, I'd have gone with a GT3 or a mint 993 Turbo. Verts are great, but can't match coupes in the handling dept., something I find important.


Originally posted by PorscheC4
The M3 conv weight in at almost 3800. The car is still runs a 13.4/13.5. WHat does ur 1995 M3 run? [/B]
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I doubt it. The 'real world' timeslips I've seen has them barely breaking into the 13s. SMG verts are even slower. Besides, what happens when the road makes a turn?

Neither of my M3s (95, 98) have ever been to a drag strip, so I don't know what they run. But E36s are proven low 14 second cars for a long time, so I'm not really concerned about making the effort. If I want more power, I can make 340 whp for about 8 grand with any number of FI kits. I prefer autocross and track events anyway, and my 'slow' M3s can hold their own just fine there.

1/4 mile times are nice for bragging rights, but that's about it. If the 1320 is your thing, a BMW or Porsche is a bad choice for the job anyway. You can go much faster for much less $. (try an LS1 or DSM) and trying to prove the difference between a mid-high 13 second car and a low 14 second car on the street is just dumb. (you'd have to be in the 100s before the faster car pulls way ahead.

Anyway, that's my view point. 911s and M3s are great, I'd get a coupe in either version. The G35 is great too; you can get 90% as quick for 50% of the cost. If having the badge, image, chick appeal is important to you, then "settle" for an RSX and wait for the C4S. When you do, I suggest a PCA driving event, to get aquainted with your new car.


///M-Spec
 
Hey man, it doesnt matter whether you have a coupe or conv. that determines handling. My dads Porsche is all wheel drive and that thing sticks to the ground like no other car. The official weight I blieve is 3240 lbs. It has one of the most advanced AWD systems in the world. You can read up on it on porsche.com. To tell you a little about it, there is always 5% of the power going to the front wheels, in normal driving 35% to the Front and in the snow 40%. It is set up like the Lamborghini Murcielagos where as it is an AWD car in terms of handling but drives like a RWD car in that you do not lose as much top end compared to a "regular" AWD where power is equally applied to all wheels. As for a coupe handling better than a conv. I'd like to see data on that. Me and a buddy of mine could take the Porsche to the track and run 13's easily. We may not run a 13.5 but probably 13.7/13.8, so breaking 13's would be no problem for us.
 
Why would AWD make you lose top speed? :confused: The two issues are unrelated to each other. It's not like the power is diluted by being spread among four wheels instead of two... :lol:

As far as handling goes, hardtops are almost always dramatically stiffer than convertibles. Chassis rigidity leads to better handling because flex makes it difficult for the suspension to repeatably handle the road, and for engineers to repeatably understand and control what's going on. Plus the operating mechanism and the additional stiffening required to reduce the chassis flex on a ragtop add weight. Weight is always the enemy.
 
Maybe you're just not clear on your terms and you have a richboy's attitude. "Top end" can also refer to top speed. Regardless, acceleration at high speed is totally unrelated to the number of drive wheels or their position on the car.
 
Originally posted by PorscheC4
Hey man, it doesnt matter whether you have a coupe or conv. that determines handling. My dads Porsche is all wheel drive and that thing sticks to the ground like no other car.
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Sure it does. It begins with Newton's Second law:

Force
------ = Acceleration
Mass

This goes for lateral acceleration as well. All else being equal, a production vert body will weigh more than a coupe body, due to structural bracing that is added to keep the chassis from flexing. In the case of a 996, this is not very much, since the 2D Carrera shell is already very stiff. In the case of the M3, it is a signifigant amount (about 350 lbs.) This is like having 2 people in the car with you at all times, even when you're alone. And even with the bracing, the body will still flex more than a coupe, which has an impact on susepension geometry.

AWD is nice when traction is an issue. However, it does not actually allow faster cornering per se. What it does allow is early application of power. I hate to break it to you, but a base Carrera will corner just as fast (probably faster) unless the ground is wet. AWD systems also have the downside of much more unsprung weight, which is always a bad thing. I'm not saying an AWD system is bad; its just not the "magic bullet" some people make it out to be.


Originally posted by PorscheC4
As for a coupe handling better than a conv. I'd like to see data on that.
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That a coupe usually handles better than a convertible equivalent isn't something I'm making up. This is a well known fact. All else being equal (tires, suspension, driver), a coupe is lighter and stiff, and ultimately better handling.

If you absolutely require proof, look at SCCA Solo II results. You'll notice that at the National level, no one who is winning is driving a vert if a lighter, stiffer coupe version exists.


Originally posted by PorscheC4
Me and a buddy of mine could take the Porsche to the track and run 13's easily. We may not run a 13.5 but probably 13.7/13.8, so breaking 13's would be no problem for us.
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I have no reason to question that statement, unless you have little or no drag racing experience. If you're a track newbie, I doubt you'd break into the 14s on your first pass. Its one thing to have a mid 13 second car.. it's another thing to have actually have a timeslip in your hand.

It's not what you drive. It's how you drive.


///M-Spec
 
Originally posted by neon_duke
Maybe you're just not clear on your terms and you have a richboy's attitude.
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I'd watch your step there, C4... <Vader>The Emperor is not as forgiving as I... </Vader>

:lol:

///M-Spec
 
///M-SPEC what do u mean watch ur step? You guys are the ones saying im a spoiled rich kid. I mean im not denying I am, but I didnt bring it up.
 
No, it didn't, actually. I asked some real questions, which he didn't answer, and I made some valid points about his comments concerning AWD and high-end acceleration.

And actually, I retract the "rich kid" comment, because it's not relevant. But you do have a kind of crappy attitude.
 
I dont care about being called a rich kid, Im dont mind. Im a very fortunate child. As for the questions/comments I did not answer, what didnt i answer?
 
Originally posted by PorscheC4
///M-SPEC what do u mean watch ur step? You guys are the ones saying im a spoiled rich kid. I mean im not denying I am, but I didnt bring it up.
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I didn't say anything about money. I just cautioned you against making the 800 lb. gorilla in this thread annoyed with you.

For the record, I believe you brought up the 996; billed specifically by you as a hundred grand car first and foremost, rather than something that will out-drag a 645Ci. Your family's wealth doesn't concern me, but you do come across like a punk who wants everyone to know how fortunate you are, rather than some who likes cars and wants to have a real discussion about them.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong.


///M-Spec
 
My reference to the Porsche was not to show off wealth or money, it was to show that what I was saying about that car is genuine because I have driven it and have experienced Porsche power at the source. I was using it more as a reference to the question for price, and for the stats. I mean anyone can read the specifications out of a R&T magazine or Motortrend, but it is a true car enthusiast who can actually drive the car, and can give more than just numbers from a magazine.
 
Originally posted by PorscheC4
My reference to the Porsche was not to show off wealth or money, it was to show that what I was saying about that car is genuine because I have driven it and have experienced Porsche power at the source. I was using it more as a reference to the question for price, and for the stats. I mean anyone can read the specifications out of a R&T magazine or Motortrend, but it is a true car enthusiast who can actually drive the car, and can give more than just numbers from a magazine.
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Well, that's fine and dandy, but you've spent most of your time here quoting stats anyway. And you haven't exactly won anyone over with your courtesy or knowledge.

I like stats, though. They're useful because they are known values and not qualitative assessments. It kinda saves time when there's a disagreement. For example, stats show you that we were both wrong about the 996 C4 Cab. Tip.S's curb weight, because in the 10/03 Car and Driver, they weighed theirs at 3614. That would be 164 lbs. more than a typical M3 Coupe and 464 lbs. more than a no-option Z06.

As for the rich kid bit, I have no reasons not to give you the benefit of the doubt. However, we've had a recent rash of twinkle-toes coming in here claiming 'daddy owns "X" megabuck car' when it turns out they're just 11 year olds with overactive imaginations. So pardon us if we're not exactly jumping up and down with excitement at yet another potential candidate for GTPlanet Fake of the Week. I'm not calling you out or anything; just giving you some perspective.

Enjoy your stay.


///M-Spec
 
Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Well, that's fine and dandy, but you've spent most of your time here quoting stats anyway. And you haven't exactly won anyone over with your courtesy or knowledge.

I like stats, though. They're useful because they are known values and not qualitative assessments. It kinda saves time when there's a disagreement. For example, stats show you that we were both wrong about the 996 C4 Cab. Tip.S's curb weight, because in the 10/03 Car and Driver, they weighed theirs at 3614. That would be 164 lbs. more than a typical M3 Coupe and 464 lbs. more than a no-option Z06.

Enjoy your stay.


///M-Spec
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HMMMMMMMM, 3614 IS what caranddriver SAYS. . . . . .
but I guess since they manufacture Porsches they would know the curb weight -
But Porsche says 3417 for the 996 C4 Cab. Tip S. . . . ..

oh well, what do I know :confused:
 
Originally posted by TurboR850
oh well, what do I know :confused:
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That's a good question. Maybe you should start by explaining the difference between a dry weight with no-options and a curb weight with fluids and $15,000 worth of extras? Thanks,


///M
 
Hey M Spec, the curb weight of the Carrera in the manual says 3240 lbs, with options i would guess maybe 3300 plus or minus. As a matter of fact, here is a picture of it. MY friend took this a couple weeks ago while I was at his house. The hard top is on it for winter so here u go. Arctic Silver metallic with a full leather gray interior.



DSC04313.JPG
 
Originally posted by ///M-Spec
That's a good question. Maybe you should start by explaining the difference between a dry weight with no-options and a curb weight with fluids and $15,000 worth of extras? Thanks,


///M
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Lets see, options and weight -
Metallic paint, hmm 5 oz. ?
18'' Wheels, hmm 10 lbs. more ?
Aerokit, not available - hmmm 0 ?
New Interior Color - a lot of weight. . . .
BOSE Sound System - 30 lbs. ?
Aluminum Look Interior - 10 lbs. ?
We are really adding the weight here. . . . .
Black Floor Mats - 10 lbs. ?
Heated Seats - 15 lbs. ?
Oil - 20 lbs. ?

So yeah. . . really racking up the weight. . . .
 
Originally posted by TurboR850
Lets see, options and weight -
Metallic paint, hmm 5 oz. ?
18'' Wheels, hmm 10 lbs. more ?
Aerokit, not available - hmmm 0 ?
New Interior Color - a lot of weight. . . .
BOSE Sound System - 30 lbs. ?
Aluminum Look Interior - 10 lbs. ?
We are really adding the weight here. . . . .
Black Floor Mats - 10 lbs. ?
Heated Seats - 15 lbs. ?
Oil - 20 lbs. ?

So yeah. . . really racking up the weight. . . .
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Sarcasm doesn't really work when all your supporting statements end with a question mark. You don't know what they weigh, so why did you bother guessing?

Do you know how much gas weighs? ~6.5 lbs. a gallon. A 16 gallon tank has 104 lbs of gas in it. Tranny fluid is heavy.. diffy fluid, especially the kind they use in viscous coupling systems, is heavy.

Another example: a single heated, powered, leather covered, lumbar adjustment seat in a BMW E46 M3 weighs 38 lbs. MORE than the cloth, manual counterpart. Times this by two, and it's 76 lbs. Just for the seats. The more complex North American cat assembly adds 13 lbs. compared to the Euro. The list goes on. It adds up.

Wrap your brain around this concept: C&D weighed their 996 C4 test car. I'll type it again. WEIGHED IT. Like, rolled it on a scale, looked at the number that came up and wrote it down.

So one of these possiblilities is true:

a) Car and Driver printed a typo. Possible, but statisticaly unlikely.
b) Car and Driver's scale was broken or miscalibrated. Highly unlikely.
c) Porsche printed a typo. Also possible, less likely than a C&D typo.

or, the most likely answer is...

d) Porsche publishes a 'bare minimum' weight spec for the car. This happens all the time in the auto industry. This is to account for differences in trim levels, safety and emissions equipment for each market. Because equipment levels change often, it would not make sense to publish a high range, therefore a low range is used.

I'm confident d) is true. Prove a) or b) is true, and I'll shurg and say "Okay. C&D is wrong." (Ironically then, my original weight estimate would be right on the money). Until then, this tangent is a waste of time.

If you're the type to insist the manufactuer is always right about their products, why don't you have a chat with Mazda RX-8 owners... whose "247--no wait-- 238" hp cars are dyno'ing around 183 to the wheels.


///M
 
If you're the type to insist the manufactuer is always right about their products, why don't you have a chat with Mazda RX-8 owners... whose "247--no wait-- 238" hp cars are dyno'ing around 183 to the wheels.
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When did I say they were ALWAYS right ? ? ? oh yeah, never.. ..

see, now your making assumptions. . . . . tisk tisk. . .

:lol:
 
Originally posted by TurboR850
When did I say they were ALWAYS right ? ? ? oh yeah, never.. ..

see, now your making assumptions. . . . . tisk tisk. . .

:lol:
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Glad to know you can entertain yourself. Feel free to provide sustance at any time.


///M
 
Originally posted by PorscheC4
I dont mean to be critical, but its not dirty at all. He keeps very good care of it actually. He babies the car.
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Looked at first glance there was snowy road film on the car, but I guess that's my imagination.. one of the reasons I don't like mid-tone grays-- they sometimes trick you into thinking its dirty. My wife's car does that to me a lot.


///M
 

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