BMW M3 - PD has made it the worst handling car in GT5P

[speedthrill]

As a BMW afficianado, I heartily approve of this message/troll.

I'd like to believe that driving the M3 would be challenging, relying on a lot of the driver's skill. But what the hell do I know; still a few days until i get GT5p here in the US.

the fact is that it is like that: challenging, relying on alot of driving skill,...

and yes, as someone stated here before with his 320i, i have an E46 320d and even i can do things with it beyond the grip levels... BMW is known for these things since we weren't even here. And yes alot of people buy a BMW for the status, that's how it became a car like that you think you pay for that... But imo you still pay for alot of race into road car quality, especially with an M/// tech sports package! These cars(the 3 serie and the M versions) rock since the 70's bigtime nomatter yr a hater or a lover, that's a fact!!!

I think the M3 should be in the game like he is now, it is a fact that for example the GTR IS quicker in real life, i mean comen on 3.5secs to 100...

 

[Famine]

A powerful rwd car doesn't oversteer when a little bit of accelerator is applied mid corner.

You might have missed this post, largely directed at you.

 

[Scaff]

A powerful rwd car doesn't oversteer when a little bit of accelerator is applied mid corner. That is a fact and that is what happens in gt5p. Standard phyics need more oversteer. Personally, i feel gthd was much better in this regard because the 599 oversteered predictably when you hammered the accelrator mid corner and seem to represent the full lock needed and full power needed to get it power sliding.

As Famine has mentioned in the post above I have already shown that your claim is far from 'fact', it is closer to nonsense. So I would appreciate it if you would cover the actual physics of your 'fact', because the ones the rest of the world (make that Universe) use don't agree with you.

While you are at it please explain why I can get my 320i (E90) to oversteer in the dry without resorting to full lock and full throttle; that's with a whole 150bhp and 148ft/lbs of torque?

Either address the point, admit you are wrong or stop posting incorrect information.

Scaff

 

[KSaiyu]

I've gotta say, I've got my car with only ~100hp facing the wrong way by putting a little bit of power down mid corner - in hindsight it was all to do with the way the car was balanced in the corner.

 

[Jay]

You must have one hell of a heavy finger then, as it certainly doesn't spin me instantly I apply the accelerator.



Utter and complete nonsense.

Lets take a look at the real world then shall we.

First off a true definition of what causes oversteer, its when the rear tyres slip angle is greater than that of the front tyres. The bigger the difference the greater degree of oversteer we are dealing with (and the opposite is true of understeer).

The two causes of slip in tyres are from rotational forces (acceleration or deceleration) and steering input. The greater these are the greater the slip will be, so with oversteer being a case in which the rear slip is greater than the front slip its both locigal and correct the oversteer can and does occur when you are not at full lock.

In fact all other factors being equal the less steering lock you have on (as long as you have some) the greater you have a chance of developing oversteer. Full steering lock can often result in understeer rather than oversteer.



Now lets look at the other claim, and take a car with the engine at 3,900 rpm, at which speed this car produces 295 ft/lbs of torque. Its in second gear, which has a ratio of 2.369, the car also has a final drive ratio of 3.85, that will give us an at the driven (rear) wheels torque figure of approx 2,690 lbs.

Now given that this car weighs 3,649lbs and has a static distribution of 51.20%, that would mean under acceleration that we could expect to see 2,000lbs (given load transfer to the rear under acceleration and being very generous) on the rear wheels (I am using a rough tyre/road 'co-ef of friction' of 1.0 here, truth be told on public road tarmac it would likely be less).

The problem we have is that is less than the 2,690 lbs of torque it has to deal with. So at an engine speed that could be quite easily be achieved at part throttle and being stupidly generous in regard to both load transfer and tyre/road grip levels, its quite easy to see that its more than possible to do in the real world.

The car in question here in case anyone failed to guess is of course the very M3 that its been claimed would not be able to do this in the real world.


Hell I can get the back of my 320i to step out in second gear on dry tarmac with part throttle and without full lock, if that can do it with a 2.0 straight 4 then its not much of a leap to see the M3 doing it (and the figures above clearly show it can be done).

Now don't get me wrong I am not claiming that GT5 is perfect (in fact you will notice this is the first time I have referred to it), but please don't make statements about what is definitively true in the real world unless you can actually put some info behind it.


Regards

Scaff

Great post + virtual rep 👍


I think players complaining about how hard and unrealistically slippery Pro physics is should maybe take a step back and look at the how they are driving the cars. With my G25 I have no trouble (no more than expected anyway) controlling all the cars so far on GT5P some are a handful and some take a different driving style.

When I have a quick switch back to the controller I find all my precision suddenly lost, this is when I get the snap back problems etc. I'm not saying the controller can't be used effectively, but it just takes time and practice as does the wheel.

 

[mbavaria30s]

I can also lend some extra credibility to Scaff and speedthrill. Not that I really need to...

I drive an e36 318i, and it acts in the same way as described. Yup... I guess that's all I have to contribute.

Btw, thanks for the insight into the physics, Scaff.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Great post + virtual rep 👍


I think players complaining about how hard and unrealistically slippery Pro physics is should maybe take a step back and look at the how they are driving the cars. With my G25 I have no trouble (no more than expected anyway) controlling all the cars so far on GT5P some are a handful and some take a different driving style.

When I have a quick switch back to the controller I find all my precision suddenly lost, this is when I get the snap back problems etc. I'm not saying the controller can't be used effectively, but it just takes time and practice as does the wheel.

I think the big problem is people comparing to the FWD and AWD, maybe if they actually understeered or oversteered on WOT people would believe the RWD more.

 

[acwebpage]

so has anyone actually won a race using the M3 yet?

all this chitter chatter about what each person thinks about this and that...
can anyone actually win a race with the M3, using their so called skills?

Please send us a video of it if you do, I'd be very impressed.

 

[Hereward]

I've won several........in the last hour! M3 intermediate HSR 600PP main rival was a clio, had some great close battles, other contenders were the elise and the occasional suicidal run from the Skyline R34 and the Ferrari something or othere (red one LOL) also had some ight battles with a new subaru. mostly the clio though, I'd say 50% first 30% top 3 20% rammed off the road LOL Just get rid of the weight and tightend the front up slightly with the best tyres your happy with. Can seem slow on the straights but in the twisty stuff you can pick and chose your line even after you've commited! will a pic of the final positions surfice?

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Do races in standard physics count? It would be easy enough to win with it then in that case.

 

[Hereward]

OK heres a pic all aids off apart from abs set to 1 pp600 race 3 laps HSR driving physics locked on standard...(sorry can't change it game locks it)
BMW M3 383bhp, 1406kg, R3 front and rear
ride hight -10 F/R
spring rate 2/7 F/R
damper 2/7 F/R
toe -0.05/0.00 F/R
camber 1.0/0.5 F/R
Break bias 8/7 F/R
turning angle 35
final gear 5.000
Everything else standard and heres the pic.

clean race by everyone, I started in 5th dispatched the NSX then had a 1 lap battle with the clio and finaly I cleared the other BMW with half a lap to go, he unfortunatly got tangled at the chicane with the NSX thus there final positions. OK I know it's on standard handleing but forget putting this car in the 700PP class as your asking too much of it LOL

 

[MrGiggly]

One car that I would expect to be nigh on impossible to drive is the v6 clio.

All that power, such a short wheelbase, and a great big lump of metal where your back seats go should make for an extremely high proportion of pendulum like tank slapping moments.

<pours the accelerant on himself and holds the match up before making the next statement>...

I actually like the M3 both irl and in GT5.

I'm quite surprised at the amount of M3 hatred in here. I've always seen it as drivers car and thought most petrolheads found it rather endearing as well.
Yes it may come across as a bit brash but its no slouch, It has plenty of presence with its hundreds of exhausts, hunkered down with its arches flared. Its a nice place to be inside one with lots of quality german engineering. Exciting to drive too with all that RWD joy going on.

So come on, lets give the M3 a little loving... go on, just a bit !!!

 

[Famine]

One car that I would expect to be nigh on impossible to drive is the v6 clio.

All that power, such a short wheelbase, and a great big lump of metal where your back seats go should make for an extremely high proportion of pendulum like tank slapping moments.

It's interesting - a Renault salesman used the same sort of language when my ex-girlfriend asked what the difference between the Renaultsport Clio 172 and the Renaultsport Clio V6 was.

I corrected him - the 172 has back seats where the engine should go...

 

[Hereward]

I like the clio and the tuned version is a monster, tends to understeer a little and yeah get on the power early it'll bite ya LOL I think the M3 is a little tame compared to some of the other cars and you really have to work it hard to get it's relative bulk moveing.

 

[hornet_burnout]

Well... after my fingers got used to the new controller, much "harder" than the very very used PS2 controller, and I got used to differences between GT4 and GT5, I started to be able to control the power delivery and the M3 is better than ever, in the game that is.

In real life, the closest I got was with an old 318is, so I can't compare it, but it "feels" believable.

And I just won races on HRS, Fuji and several 2nd places in those and Suzuka.

I know you guys already established the nonsense of this statement, but I wanted to confirm and say it's probably just a question of adaptation. At least it was for me...

 

[jgda9rs]

I have used almost every car in GT5P and I can say that the BMW M3 using professional setting and all assists OFF, is the most difficult car to handle.

Has "anyone" managed to win a race ONline on professional event using the BMW M3?

I doubt anyone is able to win "professional" using this car, if you do win, please let me know.

In fact if you cant win online using this car, try winning on class A or S races using this car. good luck.

I think it is sad that PD has unethically made the japanese cars faster and handle better than the real world German cars like BMW M3.

can you believe it, PD has made an EVO X faster in a straight line than an M3 in this game.

just search any car reviews on the BMW M3, and they will all tell you that the M3 is the best handling car in its class. but PD has made it the worst handling car. shame on you polyphone digital. dishonestly making german cars perform worst than the japanese cars. shame on you.

If you win a race online in professional using the M3, let me know. impossible

you're totally wrong about that. it takes some great driving skills to win or push a bmw to its limits. if you ask the owners from the general public, they are very, very very prone to oversteer, specially if you reach their limits. they become very hard to drive. then there's your reviews. in its class, yeah.
i guess it belongs to rear wheel drive category. i can still see the evo x being faster than the m3 in real life. nevermind the game, but the evo has all-wheel drive, so chances are it will get off the line so much faster than the m3. and you have to remember that most car reviews are usually biased, they're not always a hundred percent true. maybe you find it hard to handle just because you still have to get used to it. rwd aren't that easy to drive anyways. maybe you just need to set it up properly, which is why they gave us the QTS. try it, it might work out for you. as for your last line, when it comes to cornering ability, i'd still put my money on the japanese cars anytime. and that's based on real life experience.

 

[acwebpage]

Thanks for the pic Hereward. Glad you had fun winning that race. and its good. but you were using 'standard' physics, which doesnt really count for our purposes here.

most people here would be playing on professional physics. how about you have another go with pro physics and rate it.

 

[darkangeldc5]

Nice one! btw, your alignment setting is quite conservative. M3 likes to have high camber and some toe out at the front to have more turn in response (my race setting on my E46 M3)

OK heres a pic all aids off apart from abs set to 1 pp600 race 3 laps HSR driving physics locked on standard...(sorry can't change it game locks it)
BMW M3 383bhp, 1406kg, R3 front and rear
ride hight -10 F/R
spring rate 2/7 F/R
damper 2/7 F/R
toe -0.05/0.00 F/R
camber 1.0/0.5 F/R
Break bias 8/7 F/R
turning angle 35
final gear 5.000
Everything else standard and heres the pic.

clean race by everyone, I started in 5th dispatched the NSX then had a 1 lap battle with the clio and finaly I cleared the other BMW with half a lap to go, he unfortunatly got tangled at the chicane with the NSX thus there final positions. OK I know it's on standard handleing but forget putting this car in the 700PP class as your asking too much of it LOL

 

[roflator]

My take here is, that driving fast is very hard. And it's going to require a lot of practice and skill to master gt5p and final gran turismo. Some people might not like that and call it unrealistic. But hey, who actually pushes his own car the same on real life as on this game? I sure know I'm not... And prologue, I just love this - especially seeing the progress PD is making with every new version and patch.

Also all the different settings and pad/wheel gaming. I think PD needs to state: "don't think it's real unless you are playing with good wheel". And please give a single button for "realism" which sets all aids off, physics mode, etc. Too many noobs are dissing gt5p just because they are playing with wrong settings or controller.