BoP Can someone explain it….

[PirovacBoy]

I respect your views and opinions but GT models itself on what happens in the real world doesn’t it, if you look at the Fanatec GT World Series their isn’t a Japanese make being used by any team competing - could be a million reasons for that but performance will be a big part. the FIA keep it simple - as do Touring Cars and the Le Mans series - to balance performance they just add ballast - the standard measure for BoP is equalise the power to weight because it’s easy - easy to implement, easy to oversee and recognised as being fair (unless your getting the ballast of course) so why wouldn’t you do that in a game - your super drivers will still be fastest, your drivers with wheels will be quicker than those with pads but the capability of the cars isn’t the debate.

Im a casual racer, I race with auto gears using a pad so I don’t expect to jump in a car and be challenging for podiums or race wins but to feel my chosen car is competitive isn’t too much to ask is it - i used the Alfa in the GR4 race a couple of times and on average was 2 seconds a lap quicker than the Lambo, in the GR3 Suzuka I can’t make get any car quicker than 2.03 which I find amusing as used to do 1.57 in the beetle in GTSport

in the thread i gave the 2 examples of BoP with the Subaru and Lamborghini - if you raced the 2 side by side, equal drivers in the real world with the GT BoP formula Applied how competitive would the Lambo be with such a large impact to its performance on any circuit. I’m not saying the concept of Balanced Performance is wrong just how PD have implemented it - I used the Subaru in the example because that was the car topping the sheets at the time and the Lambo because I generally use that in GR4 races.

Like I said I’ve no idea by which measures PD applies their BoP.
But from my testing, at least for me personally I achieve pretty similar Lap Times across GT4/3 Cars.
Of course in its current state I’m not capable of getting GR3MR Cars close to FR Cars Lap time wise.
I‘m just not skilled enough to do it.
Same goes for GR4 Cars.
I can get all FR/MR Cars pretty equal to each other.
The FF Cars are very well balanced too in comparison to the FR/MR GR4s.
But the 4WD Cars are slightly OP.
Over a 2Minute Lap, I’m around 1 Second faster with them compared to the other FR/MR/FF GR4s.
For example this Weeks Daily Race B i tried many different Cars.
I was equally fast in all of them 1-3 tenths difference at maximum.
Then I tried the GTR and after 5 Laps I would have smashed my previous best Lap which I did in an MR Car by almost 8Tenths.
I aborted the lap as I didn’t want to see my Name on the leaderboard in a GTR😅

 

[br1x]

Like I said I’ve no idea by which measures PD applies their BoP.
But from my testing, at least for me personally I achieve pretty similar Lap Times across GT4/3 Cars.
Of course in its current state I’m not capable of getting GR3MR Cars close to FR Cars Lap time wise.
I‘m just not skilled enough to do it.
Same goes for GR4 Cars.
I can get all FR/MR Cars pretty equal to each other.
The FF Cars are very well balanced too in comparison to the FR/MR GR4s.
But the 4WD Cars are slightly OP.
Over a 2Minute Lap, I’m around 1 Second faster with them compared to the other FR/MR/FF GR4s.
For example this Weeks Daily Race B i tried many different Cars.
I was equally fast in all of them 1-3 tenths difference at maximum.
Then I tried the GTR and after 5 Laps I would have smashed my previous best Lap which I did in an MR Car by almost 8Tenths.
I aborted the lap as I didn’t want to see my Name on the leaderboard in a GTR😅

Exactly, the problem right now isn't that everyone was using the WRX or GTR this week, the problem is that at the moment the AWD cars are the best on almost every track in Group 4.

Same for Group 3, the WRX and Supra are the best on probably 80-90% of the tracks. MR cars in general are much weaker than FR cars.

Those are issues that should be adressed and it should happen a lot quicker imo, even a blank -1 power and/or weight for all Gr.3 FR and Gr.4 AWD would bring the whole BoP much closer together already, that isn't rocket science if a certain drivetrain is clearly dominating.

 

[Samus]

I still don't get why they even made 4WD race cars. There is a reason full 4WD isn't allowed in pretty much any standard track racing series in real life, it's limited to rally/dirt stuff, and almost always exclusively 4WD ever since they overtook 2WD performance in the 80s.

 

[PirovacBoy]

Those are issues that should be adressed and it should happen a lot quicker imo, even a blank -1 power and/or weight for all Gr.3 FR and Gr.4 AWD would bring the whole BoP much closer together already, that isn't rocket science if a certain drivetrain is clearly dominating.

Absolutely agree, the thing is we don’t know who is Test driving these Cars and comparing them.
The Driving Style also has a huge impact. If I drive an AWD GR4 Car properly, they are pretty equal to the other Gr4 Cars at least from my observations.
This changed drastically as soon as I start to overdrive the Car in an unrealistic way which is possible because of the somewhat iffy Physics.
But that’s another topic so let’s not open Pandoras Box 😅
Same goes for Gr3 MR Cars.
To me the Braking Physics are not right, the whole Car Balance gets completely out of shape as soon as you just slightly overdose the Brakes.
Not to mention its ridiculous high tire wear compared to almost every other Gr3 Car.

I still don't get why they even made 4WD race cars.

I personally don’t think there’s anything wrong with having 4WD Race Cars in GT7.
It’s just its implementation in the Gr4 Category and especially their OP BoP which makes them look and actually feel OP.
To me there’s nothing wrong having AWD Race Cars.

 

[Samus]

I personally don’t think there’s anything wrong with having 4WD Race Cars in GT7.

If they only raced against other 4WD cars, sure.

It’s just its implementation in the Gr4 Category and especially their OP BoP which makes them look and actually feel OP.
To me there’s nothing wrong having AWD Race Cars.

But that's the thing, 4WD is always going to have an inherit advantage, even if you nerf the power and weight. Real world race series still struggle with balancing FWD and RWD, again, because in certain areas one drivetrain layout just has a clear advantage over the other. But even still, balancing those are far easier than 2WD vs 4WD.

As I say, there is a reason 4WD isn't allowed in real GT3 and GT4, or pretty much anything else.

PD including them is just making things harder for themselves. No reason they couldn't have converted them to rear drive, like in real life.

 

[br1x]

If they only raced against other 4WD cars, sure.

But that's the thing, 4WD is always going to have an inherit advantage, even if you nerf the power and weight. Real world race series still struggle with balancing FWD and RWD, again, because in certain areas one drivetrain layout just has a clear advantage over the other. But even still, balancing those are far easier than 2WD vs 4WD.

As I say, there is a reason 4WD isn't allowed in real GT3 and GT4, or pretty much anything else.

PD including them is just making things harder for themselves. No reason they couldn't have converted them to rear drive, like in real life.

In GT Sport AWD and FF cars were generally pretty bad in Group 4, AWD are just too strong in GT7 where they are also pretty dominant in most PP ranges for road cars.
Just seems to be an issue with the physics calculations as they seem to be overperforming both in general and in regard to their PP.

 

[hawkeyez]

I think it would be cool to be able to limit multiplayer online races to having to drive whatever the host drives or perhaps you have to pick from their list? I know of a few cars that in stock form or sometimes tuned up to match are very competitive, lots of trading race position throughout the race. Simply choosing a class and limiting PP only does so much. And if you put too many restrictions on people just join and leave.

But if you joined a room and saw five cars to choose from you’d be inclined to stay and try them out. Of course it would be up to the host to make sure the cars are equal, however you could have a pp range like the cars have to be on the same tires and between say 500pp and 520pp.


Essentially creating mini classes. I’m just thinking of GT legends, you’d have a class to choose from and they were well matched, some cars faster on the straight some faster in the corners but almost identical lap times in either. Made for fun racing.