Boz Mon's Miata thread. Small update, rants and raves

  • Thread starter Thread starter Boz Mon
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It wasn't a generalisation - it was specific to the kind of engine in the Miata.
 
Duke of Pendle
Infers
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Implies.

Duke of Pendle
that the engine uses no oil because it's uncomplicated.
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And in fact doesn't even imply since it states it quite clearly.

You're desperate to have an argument here. Why, I don't know. But you chose to argue that how complicated an engine is doesn't matter because it's design and condition that matter.

1. Design is the level of complication.
The design is simple - straight four with one of everything. Simple is uncomplicated. Complexity thus matters, by your own terms, despite you saying it doesn't.

2. Condition is covered by "should" (or rather "shouldn't").
An uncomplicated engine shouldn't use much oil at all. If it does then it is probably not in very good condition.

So far you're batting 2 for 2 - your reasons for disagreeing are, in fact, agreements. You have agreed with the statement that an uncomplicated straight four with no bells and whistles shouldn't use much oil despite saying you disagree with it.

Why you chose to illustrate the point with two bike engines (both of which are two-pot vees - albeit 90 and 180 degree - so what you understand by "complexity" in relation to engines is clearly something different) and why you continue to say you disagree despite agreeing is something only you can answer.


But ultimately nothing you've said so far helps Boz Mon with his question. His question was whether his Miata will use oil. The answer is it shouldn't, it's an uncomplicated 1.8 litre 4-pot with no bells or whistles.
 
You may be having an argument. My intention was to debate what appeared to me to be a generalisation which I don't agree with.
Don't take it personally - this is a forum for discussion.

I'm not aware that motorcycle engines adhere to different design rules, other than that of 'packaging'.

The examples I quoted I believe are valid, in that they are both aircooled twins, with largely similar design brief. I quoted those to demonstrate that apparently similar engines can demonstrate significantly different characteristics.

In order to demonstrate that I'm not "desperate for an argument", this is my last input to this discussion. :)
 
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Duke of Pendle
You may be having an argument. My intention was to debate what appeared to me to be a generalisation which I don't agree with.
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While making points that shows you agreed with it.

Duke of Pendle
Don't take it personally - this is a forum for discussion.
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And this is a thread for discussion of Boz Mon's Miata.

Duke of Pendle
I'm not aware that motorcycle engines adhere to different design rules, other than that of 'packaging'.
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Bike engines are a law unto themselves, but they can get away with it due to low weight (keeping the torque-to-weight ratio sane, while making the power-to-weight ratio insane). If we could put 140hp 0.9 litre engines in cars, the government's fuel duty revenue would drop like a rock (I'm sure they'd find a way to compensate though).

Take the Duke's twinpulse. Both cylinders fire at the same time (as should the BMW engine cited, if it's a true boxer rather than a 180 vee). That can't happen in a car engine. Literally can't.

Though it has to be added that if the BMW boxer is an example of the type, it appears bike and car boxers share the characteristic of absolutely drinking oil.

Duke of Pendle
The examples I quoted I believe are valid, in that they are both aircooled twins, with largely similar design brief. I quoted those to demonstrate that apparently similar engines can demonstrate significantly different characteristics.
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There are significant differences between vees and boxers (even 180 vees and boxers, though we often use the terms interchangeably), but both are fundamentally more complicated designs than straights.

Let me draw an analogy. Person 1 asks if he'll like cherries. Person 2 says he ought because he likes fruit and they're sweet. Person 3 says being sweet has nothing to do with it, it's all about the sugar and besides it might have rotted. Also, person 3 quite likes cherry pie but isn't fond of black forest gateau and it's a valid comparison because both have cherries.

What person 3 has done is disagree by way of agreeing, stated an obvious tacit understanding and drawn comparison with two barely-related items that are not relevant. AND failed to answer the question posed by person 1.



Mmm. Pie.
 
The MX-5 SHOULDN'T use any oil, but that doesn't mean a valve seal couldn't have gone wrong or a cylinder wall couldn't have gotten scored. Always good to check it periodically.
 
Jim Prower
The MX-5 SHOULDN'T use any oil, but that doesn't mean a valve seal couldn't have gone wrong or a cylinder wall couldn't have gotten scored. Always good to check it periodically.
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Zacly. Shouldn't, but if it does it'll need checking out.
 
Congrats on the purchase! That's one sweet looking Miata.:drool: I've heard that with the right tires, Miata's are stupid fun in the snow.
 
Famine
Straight-4s are just about the least complicated engine design in the history of ever (well, insofar as modern engines are concerned. Any straight 4 except the Ford Kent using more than a trace amount of oil would concern me.
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The Kent (/Endura) in my Fiesta never used any oil at all. None. It had oil changes each year (give or take six months...) when I had it serviced but I regularly checked the 'stick and it always remained at exactly the same level, and it was always in perfect condition too. Either mine was a good'un as far as they go, or Endura versions of the Kent in general were an improvement I'm not sure...

As for Miatas, I haven't heard anything if they use any oil particularly. The things have been out for over twenty years and kept more or less the same engine design until the NC was released. If they used oil excessively you'd hear more about it.

As it is, it's a very under-stressed engine.
 
haha, I didnt think 1 question could get so much hype. Thanks for the input everyone. As far as snow goes, I will be driving the Prelude today. I woke up and we have 6 inches, and we are supposed to get 8 to 12 more. I would have been fine venturing out in 6 but when all is said and done, the snow is probably going to be pretty interesting to treck through.
 
homeforsummer
The Kent (/Endura) in my Fiesta never used any oil at all. None. It had oil changes each year (give or take six months...) when I had it serviced but I regularly checked the 'stick and it always remained at exactly the same level, and it was always in perfect condition too. Either mine was a good'un as far as they go, or Endura versions of the Kent in general were an improvement I'm not sure...

As for Miatas, I haven't heard anything if they use any oil particularly. The things have been out for over twenty years and kept more or less the same engine design until the NC was released. If they used oil excessively you'd hear more about it.

As it is, it's a very under-stressed engine.
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Mine does. A bit. I had to top it up in January as it was running a bit low. That said, mine's been worked considerably harder than yours since I bought it - I've done about 6,000 miles in 4 months, most of them at motorway speeds (where the gearbox makes the engine to shout like an enraged Scotsman). But then mine's a ROCAM, which I'm fairly certain was a Kent they modified to run on Toilet Duck.
 
How is it in terms of rust? I might be interested and it'd give me a reason to get my aunt to stop bugging me about coming to see her.
 
Rotary Junkie
How is it in terms of rust? I might be interested and it'd give me a reason to get my aunt to stop bugging me about coming to see her.
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A small amount on the trunklid, and rear drivers quarter has a bit. The clearcoat is also bad on that quarter, and the drivers door. Wheres your aunt live BTW?
 
So, I finally get to drive in the snow with the Miata. It seems fine, a little harder to get moving than the Prelude but not horrible. I was on a sidestreet, and I wanted to see how the ABS worked. I hit the brakes and the wheels lock up. I was freaking out thinking that something was broke and it was going to cost $$$$$$ to get it fixed. When I got home, I checked to see if the ABS light came on when I turned the key on. No go.

So much stuff was running through my head. Did they take out the bulb, was there a fuse blown? I then did a google search, and found out that my car does not have ABS. I feel so much better now, even though it would be nice to have. Not to mention that the window sticker said ABS on it.

On a lighter note, I found a local Miata club, and I plan on going to their meeting on the 23rd to hopefully meet some people just as nice as Prelude drivers.
 
The title of the thread worried me for a second, though it was going to be more serious than non-existant ABS!

I've locked the wheels a few times in mine in emergencies but I've no complaints at all about having no ABS. The brakes are pretty good in general, so I expect you'll get used to bringing it right up to the point where they lock in fast driving without actually locking them. I didn't even lock them in the recent snow. Benefits of a lightweight car.
 
I can only lock up my fronts under extreme, never gonna see on the road unless I'm going to barrel through you anyway, conditions. No ABS doesn't seeem like a big deal
 
Its not that big of a deal, but it was when I was not aware of the car not having it. Before I realized I didnt have ABS this morning, I didnt lock up the wheels at all, I can feel pretty well where they would lock. Plus I dont use brakes that much, I rely a lot on the short gears to slow me down.
 
And not to mention, having ABS in winter time can increase stopping distances up to 20%-25% percent. I have experienced this in multiple cars. I hate ABS in winter....so I just took the fuse out. :)
 
So its been a week and 3 days that I have had the pleasure of driving my 2003 Miata. Final word is, it is a good Prelude replacement. I'm still getting used to the 6 speed, I have some trouble finding 3rd and 6th, but I'm getting better. It seems like the flywheel is lighter than the Prelude's because I keep getting rough shifts, I found out that if I let the clutch out faster it remedies the problem.

The car obviously doesn't leak any fluids, the suspension doesnt squeak when going over speed bumps, and none of the belts squeak on startup. I approve.

The interior is a bit cramped, mainly in the headroom department. I am 6'2' so its expected. Once I save up a bit more money, and have the car closer to being paid off, I will be looking into a hardtop for winter driving since I have heard that it give about another inch or so of head room.

The steering is much snappier than the Prelude, and I have had a bit of fun with the rear wheel drive in the snow, but not too much.

The only issue I really have is the size of the gas tank. It seems to be small for my liking. The first tank I only managed 26mpg, I was seriously expecting a solid 30 from the car before I bought it.
 
Headroom? There's ninety-three million miles of headroom!
 
Boz Mon
The interior is a bit cramped, mainly in the headroom department. I am 6'2' so its expected. Once I save up a bit more money, and have the car closer to being paid off, I will be looking into a hardtop for winter driving since I have heard that it give about another inch or so of head room.
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If you aren't too worried about originality, one option could be to fit a racing bucket. The driver's seat in the NB is notoriously higher than it was in the NA and a lot of people struggle with headroom from what I've heard.
 
Boz Mon
haha Not with the top up in a Chicago winter. I also plan on removing the sun visors later in the week. This will increase visibility out the front window.
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Top up? Was it raining?
 
The top only goes up if stuff is falling from the sky! Join the "Windows down, tunes cranked up, all the time" club :D
 
homeforsummer
If you aren't too worried about originality, one option could be to fit a racing bucket. The driver's seat in the NB is notoriously higher than it was in the NA and a lot of people struggle with headroom from what I've heard.
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I feel the NA is the roomiest Miata of the bunch.
 

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