Brake strenght reduction?

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azidahaka

azidahaka

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karsten_beoulve
I'm mildly advanced with a wheel (DFGT since end of december) and i'm wondering how can i reduce braking power; using a 2/2 instead of 5/5 standard bias doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

I'm the founder of the serie in my signature and i'm pretty happy with my pace (i'm a midfielder or lower part of grid usually) but i feel that no matter how "soft" i am under braking i'm slowing my gt300 a tiny bit too much...

I may just be too "unsensitive" with my feet but any help is welcome!
 
azidahaka
I'm mildly advanced with a wheel (DFGT since end of december) and i'm wondering how can i reduce braking power; using a 2/2 instead of 5/5 standard bias doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

I'm the founder of the serie in my signature and i'm pretty happy with my pace (i'm a midfielder or lower part of grid usually) but i feel that no matter how "soft" i am under braking i'm slowing my gt300 a tiny bit too much...

I may just be too "unsensitive" with my feet but any help is welcome!
Click to expand...

I used a soft sponge ball cut in half and placed in the cavity behind the pedals, along with some bungee cords to increase the feel of my DFGT brake pedals. I also experimented with copper pipe insulation and it worked quite well too.
Pipe-Foam.jpg
 
so there's no in game hidden menu' or that sort of things? :P

what does the brake bias level do? 0/0 seems basically the same as 10/10, but is that actually so?
 
azidahaka
so there's no in game hidden menu' or that sort of things? :p

what does the brake bias level do? 0/0 seems basically the same as 10/10, but is that actually so?
Click to expand...

If you're using ABS then using higher brake settings isn't as noticeable although the balance changes are.

Without ABS you'll see an immense difference between the two, especially on cold race brakes.
 
All I can suggest is, brake hard when you usually would, then ease off the pressure a little to gauge your rate of deceleration, then either back on if too fast, or keep dragging if your speed is about right.

Have a play with abs 0 and you will see the difference.

The brakes will want to lock at the same time, but with ABS 1, the car will pulse the brakes when lockup is detected.

Braking too hard with ABS 1 with decrease the rate of deceleration compared to the ideal amount of pressure. I find with ABS 0 I can detect the point of 'too much pressure' much easier, as I get the locking feedback. ABS 1 gives a much smaller feedback for 'to much pressure', as there are only small differences in feedback.

I think a light on the dash would help, to give you a proper visual cue that ABS has kicked in.

I havnt gone back to abs1 since gt6 came out, as I feel I have more control over what the brakes are doing. As long as you practice reading the tiny feedback cues, abs 0, I feel, gives much better modulation, and overall braking control.


Or just brake later? You can never have too much deceleration on a racing car, in terms of being fast, and decreasing laptimes.
 
Johnnypenso
I used a soft sponge ball cut in half and placed in the cavity behind the pedals, along with some bungee cords to increase the feel of my DFGT brake pedals. I also experimented with copper pipe insulation and it worked quite well too​
Click to expand...

^ This.

It makes a huge difference to the feel of the brakes and creates progressive pressure quite well. I'm still using an old DFP, I believe the pedals are the same as the DFGT, and went for a sponge ball mod when I started no ABS in GT5.
 
Small correction: the ABS in the game does not "pulse". This is pretty much confirmed thanks to the Kaz documentary, where there is footage of Kaz driving some special dev version of the game, and there are four yellow bars that scale independently of each other according to the road surface and the car's attitude, but the overall height of those bars syncs perfectly with his braking inputs.

It is as suspected, that the applied braking power is trimmed to match the available grip, per wheel, practically in advance of any real locking. In real life, such a non-deterministic control is not physically realisable, even if you adopt feed-forward systems working off the rate of change of wheel speed, as an example. They should be able to get usefully close, but only if you tune them to each tyre and surface combo, which pretty much limits it to competition use for now.

This means the ABS in the game is doing more than just preventing the wheels from locking, as it dynamically yaws the car out of the corner as you brake (technically making the car less manoeuvrable on the brakes, which is partly why ABS 0 feels so "alive") because there is more grip available on the outside tyres; this is probably the source of the classic GT understeer of yore.
 
Griffith500
Small correction: the ABS in the game does not "pulse". This is pretty much confirmed thanks to the Kaz documentary, where there is footage of Kaz driving some special dev version of the game, and there are four yellow bars that scale independently of each other according to the road surface and the car's attitude, but the overall height of those bars syncs perfectly with his braking inputs.

It is as suspected, that the applied braking power is trimmed to match the available grip, per wheel, practically in advance of any real locking. In real life, such a non-deterministic control is not physically realisable, even if you adopt feed-forward systems working off the rate of change of wheel speed, as an example. They should be able to get usefully close, but only if you tune them to each tyre and surface combo, which pretty much limits it to competition use for now.

This means the ABS in the game is doing more than just preventing the wheels from locking, as it dynamically yaws the car out of the corner as you brake (technically making the car less manoeuvrable on the brakes, which is partly why ABS 0 feels so "alive") because there is more grip available on the outside tyres; this is probably the source of the classic GT understeer of yore.
Click to expand...

Which is why most of my no ABS tune/replica often have that "understeer" or "tight" feeling when driven with ABS 1 and have to alter brake balance to suit the driver :) ABS = perfect brake assist with added "hidden force" :)
 
Johnnypenso
I used a soft sponge ball cut in half and placed in the cavity behind the pedals, along with some bungee cords to increase the feel of my DFGT brake pedals. I also experimented with copper pipe insulation and it worked quite well too.
Pipe-Foam.jpg
Click to expand...
I can see how you'd use a sponge ball. But how do you use bungee cords to improve the brakes?
 
azidahaka
So abs zero should prove faster in the long run?
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No, it's likely to be slower for most situations, depending. Slow corners (with a low speed approach), such as the 90° corners towards the end of London, really benefit from being able to turn the car on the brakes, but any corner needing heavy trail braking will be faster with ABS, especially if you can dial out the understeer. Very light scrubbing of speed in a corner using the brakes is better (at least it feels better) without ABS, too, as it tends to complement the natural balance of the car, turning it into the corner with no change in steering, rather than imposing that outward yaw, which you'd have to apply more steering lock to compensate for.

Really, the main benefit is that it feels nicer, and more involving - much less clinical. It's a much better representation of vehicle dynamics in the braking zones, with or without ABS (in the real world).

On the other hand, GT's ABS really hammers home the relationship between braking power and turning rate as you trail brake (too much of either compromises the other at any stage in the corner). No ABS softens that by allowing lock-ups, or actively yawing the car into the corner, which may mean you're a bit more "clumsy". Actually I find that both of those things are so communicative that, going back to ABS, I find I have better control of my braking pressure as I progress my steering input into a corner.

So, that ABS light, or something like the TC overlay on the throttle bar, except applied to the ABS and the brake bar, would be most useful indeed.
 
SillyBillyP
I can see how you'd use a sponge ball. But how do you use bungee cords to improve the brakes?
Click to expand...
I hooked one end on the back of the pedal and around to the inside and then the other end to my racing seat. Gave it better spring back and the ball or foam gave it more of a heavier feel.
 
Looks so weird lol!

I have a sponge ball, shall i cut before inserting it? It's a bit too big... Also can it hurt the pedals or create problems?
 
Ut
azidahaka
Looks so weird lol!

I have a sponge ball, shall i cut before inserting it? It's a bit too big... Also can it hurt the pedals or create problems?
Click to expand...
I cut mine in half and that was enough. Yes there is the potential for damage because you are putting more pressure on the components than they were designed for. After 2 years I had to pull mine apart and fix the brakes because there were always slightly on at that point. Trade off for sure.
 

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