Braking and feint drift

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Asian_Drifter

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Hi there...

I've read the drifting guide by Tank_Spanker, but I've still got some questions, so will someone pls care to explain.

In GT3, a braking drift was performed as such (correct me if I'm wrong)...you brake AND turn in to the corner simultaneously...at least, that's how I did it, and it worked. This 'braking AND turning at the same time' technique seems impossible in GT4, and as Tank_Spanker mentioned in his guide, doing so in GT4 will just cause the car to travel almost in a straight line. Hence, most of the braking should be done prior to turning in.
However, in Tank_Spanker's braking drift demo video, he was tackling a high speed corner with minimal braking. Hence I could not understand the concept of a braking drift based on that video alone. Tank_Spanker or anyone else care to explain how a braking drift would work in say, a mid-speed or low speed corner? A video would do wonders, if available.

On a slightly different note, I've been practicing to drift on a stock Trueno. I ALWAYS have to use a feint drift. If not, I find it impossible to break its traction. Please comment.

Thanks alot
 
First of all, welcome to these forums.

Now im not much of an engineer myself so i cant help you with this, all thought i found tank_spankers explanation to be fine. *** BUT***, as tank said , the reference is only a reference NOT a guide, meaning a lot is based on personal opinion, althought feint drifting is pretty straight foward

So ill let tank_spanker handle this one, maybe he'll clarify his explanation
 
I'm not TankSpanker, but...

You should adapt your brake drift technique according the situation (speed and your approach). Braking on turn-in BEFORE you start to shift any weight will usually result in understeer. Think about it like this...your braking, the load of the weight moves to the front, so you've put stress on the front tires. Your still braking and you try and turn-in, which will push more of the load on either one of the front tires. If you're going too fast you'll loose all grip in the front causing the understeer. If you're going too slow, you won't move enough weight to get the rear end to come out.

Try and time your braking after you've started to move some weight around. Say your coming up on a left turn...steer to the right alittle, and you'll push the weight to the left side. Start your left turn-in right after that, it'll quickly move the weight to the right side. You should feel the rear end become alittle unstable after that. During that left turn-in brake alittle, which will push the weight to the front, and the rear end will come loose even more then with just the initial weight shift. Why does this work better/more consistantly than just braking during your turn-in? Because the stress put on the tires is gradually increased instead of being forced all at once. So try combining a small feint movement with alittle braking.

I personally found that strictly brake drift only works in situations where you go from carrying alot of speed, into a low/midspeed drift corner. Like the banked hairpin after the long straight at Trial Mountain.

If I've F'd up the explaination, someone correct me....
 
I usually steer a bit then tap the brakes a bit to get it sideways, then hit the gas to get the car started twards the inside of the turn.
 
ok, here i am

ya, i mention in that guide that the braking demo is the weakest of them all. The technique just doesn't work wonders with this physics model compared to GT3.

ok, DT_C hit most of the marks on this one, but I'll explain it my way anyways.

There's a few reason i hit the brakes as weak as I did.
First being the speed of the car - the car only had around 175hp and I needed to keep the speed up a little bit to get through that turn in the way I wanted. A tighter turn would have demonstrated the technique better, but i wanted to keep as many techniques as I could on that one turn so it would be easier for viewers to contrast between the different styles.
Secondly, the understeer. I had tried the turn by braking later and harder for a shorter duration but the car became unresponsive and went nose first into the gravel. It's important to note that the car was on N2 tires. Had it been on stickier tires I have been able to do it with harsher braking.
But, light braking was the solution for me on this turn.

Anyways, when I do a braking drift (which isnt often b/c they dont work as well as other techniques or mixed techniques) i will brake a fraction after I turn in. This allows the fronts to initiate rotation in the car with grip near their maximum and not being robbed by having to brake at the same time. Then i grab the brakes to move weight forward and reduce rear grip. If you've done it properly the front tires will still hold the turn and the back will kick out in a gradual manner.

Its not long after the car begins sliding that I release the brakes and revert to getting on the throttle. Holding the brakes for too long after turning can overwhelm the front tires (beginning first with the inside tire which is unloaded) promoting understeer and it might exit the drift. Infact, you can see this a little on the second view in the braking example - there's a quick puff of smoke from the right front.

If i have to remove speed from the car i'll often do it before all this nonsense described above to give the car an opportunity to return to a state of near neutral loading.

So, it's imperative that you judge the speed correctly and are aware of the limits of your tires and setup. Less grippy tires require much more careful use of the brakes and steering. less grip = less simultaneous braking and steering. Grippier tires will allow for greater weight transfer rate and greater amounts of simultanous braking and steering but then it also becomes harder to kick out the back end with them equipped. You have to find a balance.

hope that explains it a bit. I wouldnt rely too heavily on using this technique exclusively though. Its much more effective if you mix it in with a few little feint flicks here and there.
 
I'm not going to go into as much detail as Droptop and Tank did, because they did a great job of explaining it. But when I use braking to initiate a drift, I usually do my braking in a straight line leading up the turn, and as soon as I let off the brakes then I turn into the apex and get on the gas. Turn the braking force for the rear brakes nice and high with the brake controller settings, and just use some good hard braking to break the tries loose before you start to turn into the drift.

It seems a lot easier that way, at least for me. If I try trail braking into the corner to initiate my drift, I find myself sliding right into the wall a lot :ouch:
 
hmm i don't know what else to add other than my view of doing the braking drift. Asian_Drifter, i actually used to do that too with gt3 with the braking drift. but with gt4, i couldn't just rush into the corner, brake, then turn, and smile while i floored the accelerator through the drift ( don't know why but my settings never really allowed the tachometer to rise under full throttle in mid drift). with gt4 i think about shifting as much weight over to the front with smoother braking. harsher braking, to me, kinda throws off the balance of the car. but then again, that's just a personal opinion.
 
KTP
I'm not going to go into as much detail as Droptop and Tank did, because they did a great job of explaining it. But when I use braking to initiate a drift, I usually do my braking in a straight line leading up the turn, and as soon as I let off the brakes then I turn into the apex and get on the gas. Turn the braking force for the rear brakes nice and high with the brake controller settings, and just use some good hard braking to break the tries loose before you start to turn into the drift.

It seems a lot easier that way, at least for me. If I try trail braking into the corner to initiate my drift, I find myself sliding right into the wall a lot :ouch:
Click to expand...

I was going to mention this straight line breaking too. You beat me to it. I want to add the reason why it works to help others here. If you are approaching a hairpin corner at a high speed, this is good to do. On your enterance, braking hard first on the straight before you initiate your fient will shift the cars weight forward and onto the front tires. This will provide the grip needed to your front tires so that you won't slide outwards and can grip with the front tires as you oversteer the rear around the hairpin.
 
I've found that braking drifts work best with light weight cars. My Genki S15 has it's brake balance at 3/15 and when I mash the brakes for a corner or mid-drift it's the best equivalent to an e-brake in real life, it locks up the rear wheels instantly. My advice would be to listen to everyone else's advice :) 👍
 

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