Braking points and the Blue line.. do you really need it ?

[888 Tuning]

Hey guys,

I was reading through the OnLineRaceVideo thread and saw a question put out there from N4HS about hitting braking markers from in cabin when the blue "line" is turned off... so I thought Id start a thread to help those addicted to the blue line and for the newbie struggling to stop nailing me into the sand.
These are all perfectly visible from in cabin, bumper, roof or chase view.. though some of the race car cabins (GT Tuned Viper) are a little visually cramped.

I have a theory that as long as you use that line you will never learn the braking markers in the game... if you dont learn them then you wont want to turn off that annoying blue line I havnt actually used the blue line since Day 2... i checked it out on Day 1 when I bought the game then turned it off.

So to kick it off I thought I would post up some of the more obvious braking markers that can be used on the tracks to ween people off the blue-line addiction Im hoping you will all contribute..

Now most of these will be car and speed dependant, but the tend to work well in the higher speed classes... the below are off the top of my head while Im at work, I will add more as I drive.
Use these as a marker that suits your car/driving style... Ie you may find that you can brake 1 car length past the marker.. or you may need to brake right on it.. whats important is once you have that point of reference you should be able to hit it every single time.

Fuji:
Turn 1
Look for small paved pathway that joins the track at an angle on your left (there are 2 at the end of the track.. if you brake at the first one, watch everyone go flying by.. better to brake at the next one)

Turn 10
Only realised this one in the past few weeks.. it looks like a patch of light dirt (almost like cement dust) on the left/middle of the track



Suzuka:

Turn 1: I use the next light pole AFTER the braking indicator light starts to flash.. but will see if there is something easier to spot
- I usually use what looks like a very mini set of protruding horizontal traffic lights, maybe 2 poles down from the flashing gear marker


Turn 13(Spoon): Dark patch (rubber on road) caused by heavy braking, middle to right side of track
- I'm not sure if it's the same spot you're on about, but there seems to be a clear line in the run up to the left hander, goes from dark to light

Degner: I use the markers on the far left, and usually brake just before the last marker, or half way between the last and second to last markers. The second section of Degner, I use the rumble strip on the left as a marker to brake

Hairpin: I brake as soon as I get through the slight right kink before this corner

Spoon: I brake about a second or two after straightening the car after 200R

Casio: I use the green markers on the fence to the far right, and I use the one just before the footbridge


Eiger:



London:




Feel free to post up and I will update the first post !

** Edit I hope you dont mind me just adding the actual markers used.. otherwise it may become somewhat ambiguous to the reader but keep the posts flowing !!**

Regs
888

 

[bergauk]

What are brakes? If GT4 braking points are applicable I'd post some.
Although I only see two tracks from GT4.

I think you have a good idea though. Sounds useful to GT5:P users.
Possibly useful in GT4 if the track designs don't change too much in between the two games.

 

[888 Tuning]

What are brakes?

I think some peoples answer to that question is the back of my car

 

[Synwraith]

Hey guys,

ISuzuka:

Turn 1: I use the next light pole AFTER the braking indicator light starts to flash.. but will see if there is something easier to spot

I usually use what looks like a very mini set of protruding horizontal traffic lights, maybe 2 poles down from the flashing gear marker?

Also at Spoon, I'm not sure if it's the same spot you're on about, but there seems to be a clear line in the run up to the left hander, goes from dark to light.

The great thing is, I have these markers, I've memorised them, but I still **** the corners up regularly

I blame RBE!

All the best
Maz (Synwraith)

 

[bergauk]

I think some peoples answer to that question is the back of my car

Hahaha

I'll do some Gt4 photomode runs to point out some decent points to brake at on Suzuka and Fuji if it'd be useful to anybody. Visual guides are useful for some people.

 

[888 Tuning]

Hahaha

I'll do some Gt4 photomode runs to point out some decent points to brake at on Suzuka and Fuji if it'd be useful to anybody. Visual guides are useful for some people.

Perfect ! be interested to see how the track has translated to Prologue as I no longer have my GT4 copy

 

[Jay]

I never use the driving lines, to be honest I don't hardly even use any form of markers, I just 'feel' it, and online if don't forget you have to take into account the rubberbanding which will change braking distances.

What are brakes?

Some silly things that only slow you down...

 

[bergauk]

Ok. I'll get on that tomorrow//later today. Its 4 AM here lol. I think I'll my RX-7 since its the fastest tuned car I have. Though I'll have to slap R5's on to avoid drifting. Should be fun, Considering I never take photomode shots for the track. Only for the cars. I'll get back to here tomorrow.

 

[daan]

Braking points will vary from car to car.

 

[bergauk]

True, but a general idea doesn't hurt. Right?

 

[Ardius]

Suzuka:

• Turn 1: I dont really use any markers, I go by my perception of distance.
• Turn 2: Depends on my speed, I usually brake as soon as I've exited turn 1 and try and get my speed down to around 68-70mph depending on car.
• Esses: Same as the above, generally, try and keep the speed around 70-80mph. First part: can usually take at fill throttle, second part: around 70mph, third part: around 80mph and the fourth part: a constant speed depending on car (usually around 70mph)
• Dunlop: Same as the above, again, keeping the speed around 80-90mph for the entry and then flooring it around the rest.
• Degner: I use the white markers on the fence to the far left, and usually brake just before the last marker, or half way between the last and second to last markers. The second section of Degner, I use the rumble strip on the left as a marker to brake. (1st part: 90mph, 2nd part: 50-60mph).
• Hairpin: I brake as soon as I get through the slight right kink before this corner. (30mph corner)
• 200R: No braking needed. (full throttle corner).
• Spoon: I brake about a second or two after straightening the car after 200R, I dont always brake in the same place, its a bit of an approximation. Second corner, I just judge my braking by my speed again, usually you should take it at around 68-70mph, depending on car. (1st part: 70-80mph corner)
• 180R: I approximate by distance, Im probably going to work on improving this one.
• Casio: I use the green markers on the fence to the far left, and I use the one just before the footbridge(?), taking the corner at around 40 mph. Second part is once again a judgement based on my current speed, usually taking this at about 40-50 mph.
• Last corner: No braking needed.

Braking points will vary from car to car.

Yes, but only very slightly, you can still use general markers and most of the low speed corners are similar for most cars. You just adjust for each car, not that hard to do.

 

[888 Tuning]

Braking points will vary from car to car.

I think that goes without saying... but you have said it anyway ... Your braking point changes... your point of reference doesnt. Otherwise you would 70+ different braking markers for just one corner.. that would be silly and unrealistic.

As i said in the original post its an indicator.. a point of reference its up to you the driver to use that reference depending on the car. As you get into a new car you will learn soon enough if you have to brake before the dirt patch, on the dirt patch or just after the dirt patch.. the dirt patch hasnt changed, but its reference to your braking point has.

Go to any international race track and they will have distance markers for each corner. They dont move those for every different car/driver/race category, its up to the driver to find their braking point using something on the track as a point of reference.

I've been lucky enough to have been able to do track days for the past 10-12 years and you get to learn very quickly what drain hole cover, crack, patch of tarmac, marker, sign, or rock is your reference for braking points.

hope that makes sense

 

[Earth]

When I first got GT5P I vowed to only use cockpit view and no racing line. Anyone can do it, you just have to get use to it.

Also, the guys who say they just feel when to brake for extremely hard braking zones I doubt you guys are getting the most out of the car and brakes consistantly. When I started racing GT5P I did the same thing, but soon realized guys were beating me consistantly going into the hard braking zones (probably using the racing line ) or I was over or under braking. You have to find some sort of braking point for the hard braking zones.

Now recently all I've raced is the Nissan GT-R in the world event in cockpit view and no racing line. I have found all the braking points and markers to help me be consistant. Sometimes when following a car very closely I have accidently hit it by not seeing the brake markers in time, which is the case when I knocked MisterWeary off the track. I now back off a car's bumper going into corners so I can see my marks out of the windshield.

The following are markers I use for every car at Suzuka, but I will give you precise braking points I use with the GT-R for this instance.

Turn 1 Suzuka

I don't know exactly what that is that hangs over the track, maybe it a light that shows green or yellow but I use it with every car now to know when to brake.

With the Nissan GT-R in the world event I brake about half a second after I pass it. If I'm in a draft down the entire straight I have to brake about half a second before I pass it to compensate for the extra speed.

The next set of corners and the esses are corners you do have to feel through.

Degner

Going into Degner you have two meter markers, I usually brake when I'm about 65% to the second one.

Degner 2

I use the rumble strip to know when to brake for the second sharp right hander in Degner. I brake about a quarter of a second before I'm at the end of it. Hard to tell you exactly when I do brake, but I do use the end of the rumble strip as a judge when to brake.

Hairpin

Again I use the rumble strip as a marker. With the GT-R I usually brake right after it ends, depending on the speed the RBE lets me carry through there.

Spoon

No photo for this, couldn't find a clear one to show the dark strip everyone is talking about. I usually brake 1 or 2 seconds after I run over it, depends on whether I'm in the draft or how brave I'm feeling.

130R

There is two meter markers on your right here at the very end. I usually brake between them with the GT-R when I'm by myself, or at the first one when in a draft.

Final Chicane

2 Green meter markers on your left on the run up to the final chicane. With the GT-R I brake about a half a second before the last one.

Turn 1 at Fuji has meter marks off to the left of the road thats how I know where to brake for it. Turn 2 (Coca Cola) at Fuji also has meter markers on the right side of the road

The very sharp righthand hairpin turn at Fuji F has no meter markers so I use the dark imperfections in the road to know where to brake. The rest is just feel

As for the other tracks, Daytona Road, London etc I race them so rarely now I've forgotten the braking points.

 

[888 Tuning]

Awesome stuff mate !!! I may just edit the Suzuka section of the first post to say... "See Below"

 

[Biggles]

Most corners work by experience & "feel". The hardest corners to feel IMO, are Turn 1 at Fuji (I use the markers on the left of the track), & the chicane (no obvious markers), which are both very high speed approach corners.

 

[888 Tuning]

Most corners work by experience & "feel". The hardest corners to feel IMO, are Turn 1 at Fuji (I use the markers on the left of the track), & the chicane (no obvious markers), which are both very high speed approach corners.

By Chicane do you mean the end of the back straight ? There is (once you know its there) a easily visible patch on the road, looks like someone has swept sand/dirt off the track and its a sizeable patch too.. that is the perfect marker for that corner.

 

[Ardius]

By Chicane do you mean the end of the back straight ? There is (once you know its there) a easily visible patch on the road, looks like someone has swept sand/dirt off the track and its a sizeable patch too.. that is the perfect marker for that corner.

I use the bit in the barrier that moves outwards on the right hand side as my braking marker. There are truly millions of landmarks to use as braking markers.

This thread would be great for people to list them all too.

 

[Biggles]

By Chicane do you mean the end of the back straight ? There is (once you know its there) a easily visible patch on the road, looks like someone has swept sand/dirt off the track and its a sizeable patch too.. that is the perfect marker for that corner.

Yes.

I meant there are "official" no track-side distance markers.

 

[Dazzla]

I've noticed that you can brake much later then what the lines say you should do and still make the corners pretty fast.

Turn 1 at Fuji is different every race because the online players are so annoying!

 

[Ardius]

I've noticed that you can brake much later then what the lines say you should do and still make the corners pretty fast.

Turn 1 at Fuji is different every race because the online players are so annoying!

The lines will never be accurate for the simple reason that you will never approach the corners at the same speed and angle every single time and with the same car.
Those lines are obviously done with the intention of generally working for most cars, but certain cars will be able to take them a lot faster or tighter (e.g. the Lotus Elise).

Although, this also applies for the markers we are talking about, at least with the markers you can alter how you react to the marker from car to car. The marker doesnt suddenly become useless, you just need to brake a little bit earlier or whatever, I definitely dont have any problems using the same braking markers moving from different cars and PP classes.

 

[BonzoHarry]

I don't know why people turn off the driving line. I mean I know people feel cooler when they don't use asm or tcs, so I guess it's kinda the same thing. But the brake points that come with the driving line are awesome. Sure some of them are conservative, like turn 1 at suzuka or for spoon, but a lot of them are spot like, the chicane after the 130r or for the hairpin. They really come into play when you're having a really close battle with somebody and you want to brake as late as possible but still don't want to lose it. So the markers are absolute reference points to make sure the adrenaline doesn't get the best of you.

 

[GTP_DONK]

I don't use the driving line, it's only there as a guide to roughly show you the quickest lines around the track. I do however use the braking line as my marker for when and where to brake, it's easier than trying to look for little marks on the track as a braking point.

 

[McLaren]

I never had them on, but I always brake maybe a second or so after the little light starts flashing. I still need to learn Fuji very badly, and I've nearly mastered Daytona except for the first turn. The little incoming slope while basically braking on a turn can really get the car out of control.

 

[Vaxen]

I don't use the driving line. The brake zones can be helpful, but I found the line itself to be too distracting.

To find my braking zone, I use a combination of reference items and the flashing brake indicator, depending on the corner. If there isn't a readily available reference object, and it's a heavy braking zone, I'll generally count the blinks to know when to apply the brakes. Crude, but effective.

My references are given below. As others have mentioned, several factors will affect the exact timing of brake application, including tires, car, RBE, and extra speed on account of a long draft.

Suzuka:
======
Turn 1: There's a line across the track after the exit from pit row. Once this line is fully rendered, it's time to brake.

Esses - Dunlop - Denger-A: I do by feel.

Denger-B: I use the end of the rumble strip as my brake marker (same as Earth).

Hairpin: End of the rumble strip (same as Earth).

Spoon-A: There's a path perpendicular to the course on the right hand side. I brake either before or right at this path, depending on car/tire.

Spoon-B - 130r: These I do by feel.

Casio: Brake zone for this corner is critical, but reference objects are hard to find. I count 5 blinks of the brake warning and then brake hard.

Fuji:
=====
Turn 1: Two references: There's a slight kink in the track on the left hand side (well before the rumble strip) that I use as the start of the brake zone. For lap 1 (standing start) I use the horizontal line. I also will count brake warning flashes, with 6 being the magic number.

Turn 2 (or is it 3? the left hander): I count 5 blinks

Hairpin: 4 blinks here. It always feels to be way early, but works surprisingly well.

Other corners are by feel (usually more speed modulation than braking).

 

[Ardius]

I don't know why people turn off the driving line. I mean I know people feel cooler when they don't use asm or tcs, so I guess it's kinda the same thing. But the brake points that come with the driving line are awesome. Sure some of them are conservative, like turn 1 at suzuka or for spoon, but a lot of them are spot like, the chicane after the 130r or for the hairpin. They really come into play when you're having a really close battle with somebody and you want to brake as late as possible but still don't want to lose it. So the markers are absolute reference points to make sure the adrenaline doesn't get the best of you.

Cool? ASM and TCS genuinely will slow you down! If you still use ASM you are seriously limiting your speed and taking away any feeling for the cars!
I personally find the driving line very distracting and inaccurate for some cars. I also tend to start depending on it too much, watching for red lines more than the things going on around me. Which is not good.

I dont think im "cool" for not using the driving line (or not using TCS and ASM all the time)...no one else can see if im using or not anyway, so why would I bother pretending im cool for not using it?
The only non-gameplay related reason I can think of people not using it is because they want to increase the realism by not having bright blue and red lines painted on the road. But thats it.

And, a free tip: turn off ASM and watch your lap time increase.

 

[Threshold]

The driving line confuses the hell out of me, and makes me draw sort of a blank in my head. I end up funking up every corner. I've used braking points since GT3. One place where I can't find a good braking marker is when braking for the chicane at Suzuka.

The very sharp righthand hairpin turn at Fuji F has no meter markers so I use the dark imperfections in the road to know where to brake.

I use the barrier at the right of the track. When it's about to exit out of my field of view I brake.

 

[bergauk]

Please dont doublepost Threshold.


Anyways. I'll start right now on creating a visual version of the braking points right now. I'll be done in about an hour.

 

[Wolf-M]

Cool? ASM and TCS genuinely will slow you down! If you still use ASM you are seriously limiting your speed and taking away any feeling for the cars!
I personally find the driving line very distracting and inaccurate for some cars. I also tend to start depending on it too much, watching for red lines more than the things going on around me. Which is not good.

I dont think im "cool" for not using the driving line (or not using TCS and ASM all the time)...no one else can see if im using or not anyway, so why would I bother pretending im cool for not using it?
The only non-gameplay related reason I can think of people not using it is because they want to increase the realism by not having bright blue and red lines painted on the road. But thats it.

And, a free tip: turn off ASM and watch your lap time increase.

ASM might be slowing you down but TC certainly does not if you're using it at the right moment. For instance I usually adjust TC to 1 at Fuji corner 1 which allows me to be far more aggresive than what I could have been had I completely turned TC off. In fact, the lap times have been faster after I've started to use traction control at certain corners.


I treat the driving line as providing you reference points. I don't necessary follow them completely but they do give you a rough idea as to when to brake - such as hard braking 2 seconds after the red line shows up

If you are opting for a more realistic experience it seems to be no brainer to turn the line off; but if you want to have easily visible and accurate reference points to make you more competitive during online races the line definitely serves such purpose well.

 

[Southend Rage]

I used to use the line all the time! But I missed being able to make my own way around the track, so I turned it off.👍

Also, about the brakes, I don't bother remebering braking points, all cars slow down defierentely, you just get the 'feel' of the car after a lap or so, and you can judge by pure distance and rate of speed, without even having to put much thought into it.👍

 

[bergauk]

Man, I'm lazy, I started, but I ran the tracks and kept drifing. Its in my nature. Well since I don't feel tired tonight I'll do a few runs and try to get some driving lines and braking points down. I'll see what I come up with and report back as soon as possible.