Braking with ABS=off is impossible??

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As said by others in previous messages, these are the prerequisites for being able to drive with the ABS disabled in GT5

1) Calibrate your pedals each time you start GT5 by pressing them once or twice all the way down when not racing.

2) Adjust the standard (and messed up) braking bias from 5:5 to more sane, front biased settings which will make front tires lock up before rear ones. The ideal thing to do is setting up front brake power so that you can still lock up brakes in the worst situation (high speed braking when going uphill on maximum downforce settings), and rear brake power to a value just high enough (in any case, smaller than the front) to prevent rear wheels from locking before front ones.
 
Really cannot understand some threads in this place.

I'd love it if they didn't allow ABS in cars not equipped with it.

When driving in real life and you pull up outside your house, do you slam on the brakes as hard as you can at the last minute so you smack your head off the dashboard? No, you brake gradually and lightly.
 
Really cannot understand some threads in this place.

I'd love it if they didn't allow ABS in cars not equipped with it.

When driving in real life and you pull up outside your house, do you slam on the brakes as hard as you can at the last minute so you smack your head off the dashboard? No, you brake gradually and lightly.

I think it is very easy to not realize just how much pressure you're putting on a car's brakes with a controller or gaming pedal as compared to a road car's brake pedal. Taking away g-force makes it more so.
 
I've been racing with ABS=0 for the past 6 months. For me, it makes the game more enjoyable because it is more of a challenge. I've discovered a few things that make it work well for me. I've always played with a G27 and pedals so all may not apply for those using a D-pad.

Sound - As others have said, since 2.02 we can hear the tires squeal much better now and this will be your key to getting your braking just right. You'll want to hear the squeal without locking the wheels up, that's when you'll know you're using all of your available traction for braking. Without force feedback on the pedals (no, not nixim mod or load cell, true force feedback) the only indicators of lock up are excessive tire squealing, a red tire indicator and the loose feeling you'll get on the steering wheel.

Pedal Mod - Yes, I do have a nixim mod and I highly recommend it to anyone with a wheel/pedals. All it does is make it harder to depress the brake pedal and requires you to push with force to get to the 100% braking zone.

Brake Bias - As others have said, the default brake bias is always wrong. Generally, I'll go 4F-1R with 500pp'ish cars that don't have downforce but every car is different and takes testing and tuning to find the right combo for that car and track. On cars with downforce, you can go much higher but my front is always 3-4 clicks more than the rear.

Circuit/Track - On circuits with high speed, downhill braking (Trial Mountain, etc) I've found that you should increase the front braking or risk spinning or having increased braking distances. Generally, I'll go one or two clicks higher on the front for these type of circuits. Downhills put more load on the front tires so you can afford having more braking up front without locking them up as quickly.

Differential - I've recently realized how important the braking sensitivity of the diff is without ABS. I've found this to be especially true on MR or RR cars (NSX, RGT, etc). By keeping my braking sensitivity high (40-60), the car is less likely to spin under braking. Once one front wheel locks up before the other, the car starts to twist to one side and makes it more likely that the back end will come around on you. Keep an eye on which wheel locks up first under braking. If the inside wheel locks first, up your braking diff. If it's the outside wheel, decrease your braking diff (I've rarely come across this condition).

Threshold braking is an art and I always remember the phrase "Squeeze then ease" when I hit the brakes. For me, no abs just makes it more enjoyable to try to go fast and brake correctly, lap after lap.

Hope this helps someone to go fast with no ABS!
 
crcn11
I'd love it if they didn't allow ABS in cars not equipped with it.

Not gonna happen for rookies sake but I think you are on to something like a "realistic braking" or "recommended braking" row in the specifications of each car in the garage like right underneath the PP row (if you can understand what I mean) where it shows where you should set the brake bias and ABS to be as realistic as possible for each car
 
not gonna happen for rookies sake but i think you are on to something like a "realistic braking" or "recommended braking" row in the specifications of each car in the garage like right underneath the pp row (if you can understand what i mean) where it shows where you should set the brake bias and abs to be as realistic as possible for each car

+1
 
I set brake bias to F2 R0 & set brake sensitivity to max 60. As long as you brake correctly it works ( abs off ) like a treat maybe even better than abs on.
 
Using the buttons for throttle and brake is a no, no surely?

The analogue controls allow gradual application of both the buttons are on, or off. On the DS3 we have the option to use the analogue, so why are you using a button?
 
My own experience is:

I drive g27 with no driving aids except ABS set to 1 -

BUT

If I drive for pleasure and I drive with historic car which don't have ABS in real life i turn it off just for realism. Since I dont tune my cars and drive 90% of them fully standard.

I recommend to use ABS in online events since its very important to brake in time.
in offline mode people should not ask how to, but do the way they want, to have most fun of the game.

I sometimes turn off ABS when drifting setting break balance Front 0 and Back to 10 (just like E brake),this way I can use my standard brake and then slide into drift using throttle. anyways now I build from different materials E brake for G27.. it went very good to my surprise !
 
Here is my post on this subject from another forum, I hope you will find it helpfull. It is focused on driving with the wheel/pedal setup, but everything said can be applied for controller-driving too.

NON ABS BRAKING Part #1
HOW TO MAKE NON-ABS BRAKING ACTUALLY WORK

This one have few steps.

Step A > The Mighty Sponge Ball™

Brake-pedals on all of the middle-prices wheels - Logitech DFP, DFGT, etc.. - are too loose and too soft to produce a usable sensitivity of travel in order to cope with the non-ABS braking. However, for there is a solution for that problem: The Mighty Sponge Ball™

1018a.jpg


Solution is simple: just insert the sponge under the brake and you're ready to go. Sponge will allow you to dose the actual brake-power more subtly and to actually have control of the brake-travel.

Of course, any hard-sponged material will do even better than simple sponge ball, especially high-density sponges, like neoprene for example. Once you've settled the step A) it is time for step B.

Step B > The Brake Balance Adjustment ™ - The Key to Master the non-ABS Braking

In order to achieve maximum performance and feel out of the GT5 physics engine and wheel support, you have to manually tweak few options in the game and accept few issues. First, you should go to the wheel option and set the steering to Simulation (although it affects only 270-wheels, but it is no-brainer, so just do it) and turn the Power Steering to OFF.

As for accepting issues, there is one thing you have to get use to when going into the universe of the non-ABS braking: you have to manually dial the ABS to OFF for the every car prior to the race in the Race Settings menu (unfortunately, you can't do it in the Settings menu in the Garage for the car of your choice). Once done, you're ready for the most important thing: The Brake Balance Adjustment ™

By default, every car in GT5 comes with Brake Balance set to 5/5 (front/rear). With ABS OFF and the default 5/5 value, there is no way you can properly drive the car, because that default value is messing the complete balance of the suspension and produces practically undrivable car. So, you have to manually adjust the Brake Balance for the every car you wish to use with ABS OFF.

General idea about adjust the Brake Balance comes form basic presumption of weight-distribution behaviour while braking: when you brake, the central mass of the vehicle and inertia moves from the back to the front. Thus all cars in real life have bigger and stronger brakes on the front-wheels and GT5 utilises the same logic. In order to adjust the BB, you have to re-distribute the BB values towards front. But before going onto that, one explanation.

Although Gran Turismo 5 uses the name of ABS (Anti Brake-Lock System) for that particular assist, I personally do not find it as representation/simulation of the actual ABS. I think it is nothing more than basic braking-assist which *overrides* the intertia-momentum on suspension and nullify the wheel-lock. Even ABS1 is too effective in what it does, so I do not find any mean in having the option to set it up to 10 (which game allows), so basically it is *ABS* just by name. I see it as nothing else but basic brake assist tool. Now back to BB setting.

Every car BB is different, but there is some generalisation possible. FR, RR and MR cars will all benefit from the higher setting towards the front. For example, I mainly use 3/1 setting for majority of my road FR, RR and MR cars. Of course, there are exceptions like Ferrari F40 where sheer mass of the vehicle asks for higher setting in the front in order to achieve proper distribution of the weight and stop the rear-axle from going into oversteer because of the insufficient braking-power on the front wheels > so for the F40 I use 5/1 setting for example and for F430 4/2 (I also use 4/2 for SLS, LFA, M3 and similar vehicles).

Actual weight of the vehicle makes a lot of difference too. Ferrari 599 calls for the 5/2 setting (Sport Hard tyres) because of the weight, while stock Corvette ZR-1 C6 RM - you mentioned it in your post - calls for 6/2 balance in order to achieve stability and efficiency of braking.

For FF and 4WD cars I generally use 3/2 or 4/3 setting in order to combat understeer on the front-wheels. GT does not take pad-size into concern (check the SHIRAKAWA Akira's elaborate here), but in order to combat understeer and lockup on FF and 4WD cars I tend to *equalize* the pressure on the front-axle by minimizing the deistribution of the braking-balance from the front wheels and force the rear-axle oversteer in order to have natural entry to the apex.

PLEASE NOTICE that I use Fanatec CSP pedals and values I've described are made with that in focus. Many of my friends who use Logitech G25/27 are using slightly lower settings (where I use 4/2 they use 3/1, etc..) because the threshold of the actual brake-sets is different for every manufacturer. Experimenting is the key.

Another thing becomes important when advanced settings comes into perspective: such as having Tire Wear ON, or driving on the wet surfaces with changeable weather/track conditions. To cut it short, the RA Adjust Functions (that in-race screen you can call-in and adjust some setting on the fly in the real-time with either Manetino-wheel on your DFGT or button-combination on the other wheels) becomes very important during the advanced races, because the tire-heat and degradation can call for altering the BB, as well as the wet surfaces. However, you will come to the appropriate conclusions by yourself through experimenting during time.

Small notice is how settings adjusted through RAMenu menu does not *stay* on the car through the venues if you quit the race before the end. So if you changed the settings during your Free Time run in online-lounge fro example, you will not have them applied once the race starts > values are set to those in main car-Settings menu. So if you come to the better solution through RAMenu during the Free race, you will have to alter them again through RAMenu once the race starts if you didn't changed them in the Settings menu.

Of course, GT5 now offers option to save multiple Settings (A/B/C, in the Settings menu), so you can manually set the ABS OFF setting for every car in one of the "Sheets" - under the B for example - in order to use it when you like. Notice how another issue is that you have to first set the desired Setting Sheet (B for example), than go to Race Options and set ABS to OFF, and than come back to settings and apply the proper BB settings. That is because once you set the ABS to OFF in the Race Option settings (where "A Settings Sheet" is always default one), it stays like that for the particular car everywhere you go with it (including online). If you opt for ABS OFF in the default "A Settings Sheet" so you will have to manually re-set it to 1 every time you want to race the car with the ABS ON. A bit confusing, but once you get used to it, it becomes just another Gran Turismo Player Masochistic Routine™.

NON ABS BRAKING part #2
THE ADVICES

- Different tyre-compounds call for the slightly different Brake Balance. You will notice how there is a difference in values if you experiment with the Comfort and Sport compound. However, it goes into category of the fine-tuning so results through experimenting will come with the time

- *ABS* in GT5 is not representation of the real-life ABS, it just uses that "name". ABS in GT5 is some kind of permanent braking assist *override* that not only prevents wheel-lock, but also have some invisible traction-control that nullify the suspension-modelling and equalises unique characteristics of the vehicles resulting with ability to turn while braking and never loose grip

- when ABS is OFF many cars will just go to snap-oversteer once the brakes are applied in full. You must never brake with full-constant power - you would never brake like that in the real-life too. In order to get maximum for your braking, you have to learn to brake is *sequences* - press/release/press/release/press/release/etc.

- you have to reconsider everything you know about braking-points and configurations for every track. With ABS off, suspension modelling becomes "free" and suddenly all elevations (lateral and longitudinal) of the surface becomes major factor in the driving. The sensation is vastly different than with ABS ON, so be prepared to revise everything you've learned to that point.

- all FR/MR/RR cars - being road or racing - have to be set with front bias noticeably stronger than rear. Through my testing I still haven't found any single FR/MR/RR car that calls for BB of the rear-brakes stronger than 2. To be honest, majority needs only 1. The key is to find proper front-strength with rear-one adjusted to point where rear brakes does not lock the rear-axle. You will know the point where rear-axle is not compromised once the car does not launch itself into snap-oversteer when braking. Once you set the rear-strength and bypass axle-lockup, you may fell that car is not stopping properly as it should. From that point, you have to force the front strength of braking until you find desired power.

On the above note, one of my last tests gave me 6/1 bias for the Ford Mark IV Race Car '67 where I needed 6/1 for proper balance of the stopping power.

NON ABS BRAKING part #3
Step C >Every Car Becomes Unique Without ABS™

I know that all above probably sounds complicating, but in fact it is not. Once you install the The Mighty Sponge Ball™ (for users of wheels that needs one) and get used to the logic of the Brake Balance settings, the new world opens. Once you disengage the braking-assist (one we call the ABS for reasons of commodity and easier perception for the casual players) you will finally get the proper feeling of the unique physics of the every car.

Disengaging the brake-assist and diving into the world of proper Brake Balance settings will enhance the unique "characteristics sensation" for every vehicle and make it even more *recognisable*. Once you begin to utilise the correct BB settings, you will be able to actually feel the pavement-ripping torque of the F40, the feel of the Aventador's mass decelerating while eating the front tires or difference between the braking-characteristics of all GT500 cars which pretty much handles inside the same handicap while ABS is turned on.

Take your time and test on the low-powered cars for start, preferably on Tsukuba and than moving to the Trial Mountain. Mazdas MX-5/RX-7 are great for FR cars basics, and once you master them you can move to the MR class with the F430 as the best car for that task. Of course, test all of them with their default tires in order to develop the feel for the actual tire-threshold and BB values you need to apply.

Good luck and I hope you'll have the great time once you indulge yourself into this beautiful universe.
 
Last edited:
amar212
For FF and 4WD cars I generally use 2/3 or 3/4 setting in order to combat understeer on the front-wheels. Since the brake-pads are larger on the front (GT actually takes that into concern), in order to combat understeer and lockup on FF and 4WD cars I tend to *release* the pressure on the front-axle by taking off the braking-power from the front wheels and force the rear-axle oversteer in order to have natural entry to the apex.
I strongly disagree with this. GT5 does not take brake pads size into account. By setting a higher brake pressure on the rear than the front you're simply fighting understeer with rear tires lockup. And if you're braking at the threshold of rear tires lock up, then this implies that the front wheels aren't braking as efficiently as they should.

Check out my findings here, and then try for yourself to verify them:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6383809#post6383809
 
I strongly disagree with this. GT5 does not take brake pads size into account. By setting a higher brake pressure on the rear than the front you're simply fighting understeer with rear tires lockup. And if you're braking at the threshold of rear tires lock up, then this implies that the front wheels aren't braking as efficiently as they should.

Check out my findings here, and then try for yourself to verify them:

Hi Akira.

No probs mate, you're probably right - I didn't try to validate anything by complex examinations, I was only doing it by feel 👍

Thanx for the input, I will change the original text.
 
Even without the wheels locking, my main problem with braking is how easy some cars oversteer after heavy braking, like using the RX-7 FC3S; even if you trail brake or release the brakes, wait a couple seconds, and NUDGE the steering wheel, the dang thing spins out.
 
Nope.. use the stick or just use lighter force on the button.. I've done it when I forgot to put ABS back on after a race.. Not that bad.
 
having proper lines outweighs turning ABS off, i keep mine at 1 and always finish top 3 if not 1st place, i can see people doing it to challenge themselves but for performance it's irrelevant when the other guy with ABS out-brakes you into every corner.
 
For all the pros that do drive with ABS OFF, do you find yourself applying the same techniques used in ABS OFF like threshold braking, partial modulating braking, and trail braking when going back to driving on ABS 1? In other words, do you keep your technique or go back to 100% full braking again? And for those that say no, why wouldn’t you? ABS was designed to allow maximum turning and braking at 100% full brake pressure in the first place so why not take advantage of turning and braking full at the same time?
 
Last edited:
amar212
Although Gran Turismo 5 uses the name of ABS (Anti Brake-Lock System) for that particular assist, I personally do not find it as representation/simulation of the actual ABS. I think it is nothing more than basic braking-assist which *overrides* the intertia-momentum on suspension and nullify the wheel-lock. Even ABS1 is too effective in what it does, so I do not find any mean in having the option to set it up to 10 (which game allows), so basically it is *ABS* just by name. I see it as nothing else but basic brake assist tool.....

Disengaging the brake-assist and diving into the world of proper Brake Balance settings will enhance the unique "characteristics sensation" for every vehicle and make it even more *recognisable*. Once you begin to utilise the correct BB settings, you will be able to actually feel the pavement-ripping torque of the F40, the feel of the Aventador's mass decelerating while eating the front tires or difference between the braking-characteristics of all GT500 cars which pretty much handles inside the same handicap while ABS is turned on.

This guy pretty much said it as to why people choose not to use it. It lets you feel the cars movements better.

For some instances I turn "ABS" off. All of the licences, special events, GT-R official record trophy, and a few seasonal time trials are done without it. If I'm doing a casual race I turn it off as well. Having it off really helps you dive and slide right into to corner and gives you a bit more challenge. Also, having it off is more effective with a wheel with gas and break pedal.

I'm no pro persay but I know enough to say you need to re-do your braking strategy for both settings.

With that being said, I only REALLY need it for drifting, there's nothing worse than upsetting a car that's going sideways.
 
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