braking

  • Thread starter Thread starter nasanu
  • 36 comments
  • 2,561 views
nasanu

nasanu

(Banned)
Messages
1,429
Japan
Australia
Messages
nasanu
Messages
nasanu
So... Anyone managed to lock the wheels?

Its not possible is it? I find this really annoying, this enforced and perfect ABS. This is one area where Forza2 and the PC sims win hands down. Maybe the wheels in GT5P do actually lock, but you cant tell. When playing forza 2 and I get on the brakes too hard I can let off, let the wheels spin again and get back on the brakes again. Its fun and its a skill. Why isn't this possible in any GT game?
 
Agreed this is one of those details that will put gt more in the direction of a sim.
 
All the cars in the game are road cars, IE in real life you can't turn the ABS off without removing the system.

It is not on all the time, ABS kicks in when needed (like in real life) you can feel it kick in if you slam on the brakes with a lot of steering angle from speed, the wheels dont lock because the ABS is modulating the brake for you therefore casuing you to slow down more slowly than if you braked properly and stopped the ABS kicking in.

Forza's system is a load of crap, you dont lock the wheels in a road car just by using full brake and certainly not at 30mph but you do in Forza which is BS.

In a normal car you cant just turn a switch for ABS, it takes a skilled mechanic to disable the system, especially in modern cars like BMW's.
 
TopGearFan08
All the cars in the game are road cars, IE in real life you can't turn the ABS off without removing the system.

It is not on all the time, ABS kicks in when needed (like in real life) you can feel it kick in if you slam on the brakes with a lot of steering angle from speed, the wheels dont lock because the ABS is modulating the brake for you therefore casuing you to slow down more slowly than if you braked properly and stopped the ABS kicking in.

Forza's system is a load of crap, you dont lock the wheels in a road car just by using full brake and certainly not at 30mph but you do in Forza which is BS.

In a normal car you cant just turn a switch for ABS, it takes a skilled mechanic to disable the system, especially in modern cars like BMW's.
Click to expand...


Agree :)

Forza a sim game? HA makes me laugh.
 
go into any bend at speed and slam the anchors on, you'l see the car understeers like a pigtake the brake of and it'll drop the understeer like a dead horse on a hot summers day LOL this is simulateing your front wheels locking up, go try it and you'll see GT5p dose in fact simulate locking up your brakes, but I agree not to the extent of simply slideing of in a straight line, but again you would never "want" to do this and one thing about simulators is getting feedback from the brakes is problamatic, this way of aproaching the problem works well, If you still don't beleive me try the bend test twice, once with abs on full and then again with the abs turned off
 
TopGearFan08
All the cars in the game are road cars, IE in real life you can't turn the ABS off without removing the system.

It is not on all the time, ABS kicks in when needed (like in real life) you can feel it kick in if you slam on the brakes with a lot of steering angle from speed, the wheels dont lock because the ABS is modulating the brake for you therefore casuing you to slow down more slowly than if you braked properly and stopped the ABS kicking in.

Forza's system is a load of crap, you dont lock the wheels in a road car just by using full brake and certainly not at 30mph but you do in Forza which is BS.

In a normal car you cant just turn a switch for ABS, it takes a skilled mechanic to disable the system, especially in modern cars like BMW's.
Click to expand...

Sorry to disagree with you here, but as someone with a very large amount of experience in the motor industry I can quite categorically tell you that disabling the ABS on a lot of road cars is very, very easy.

pg-3.gif


The above is a fuse box diagram for an E90 3-series, pull fuse number 6 and goodbye ABS (along with the brake light and a few other bits), now just because it would be a terminally stupid thing to do on the road does not mean that its difficult to do at all.

In regard to your comment that you don't lock the tyres on a road car when you use full braking and that its not going to happen at 30MPH? Exactly what do you base this on?

Forza aside (because I happen to agree that overall the physics engine is not that great), any time you exceed a tyres slip percentage it will lock, that will almost certainly be a product of heavy if not full braking and is most certainly possible at 30mph. Hell if its wet enough and you apply full braking you can lock tyres at any speed, from walking pace upwards on ice.

Take a good look at this thread, and this post and this link.


Regards

Scaff
 
Wait, so gt5 isn't even going to have the "lock wheels" part yet?

That sucks, really bad. My anticipation for gt5 just went down at least 5%. The thing I loved about forza 2 was the realistic braking so you couldn't just stomp on the slow pedal and take a corner, and trail braking was surprisingly effective because you could always be at 100% tire potential.


That sucks.
 
just wait till you play the game, or have ago at the demo, controled brakeing is required, stomp on the brakes with no abs on your stopping distance is much further than if you use progresive movement on the brakes, GT5p simulates locking up but not to the extent of completly locking the wheels, you do need to control your brakes and not just stomp on them.This can also be varied with the abs settings.
 
We do not know yet if GT5 will have that feature.
I think in the small Lotus that I just drove At lest second the wheels locked.. I could hear a loud tire squeak..
besides TIRE LOCKING is not all that realistic.. most cars in GT5P are normal cars and ABS.. so its hard to lock them up.

Only way to make sure your wheels are locked up is when you are in grass or sand.

Besides, I play lots of PC sim games, and sometimes I may even put 100 percent pressure on the brake, and it does not lock the tires because the BRAKES are so overheated they tend to loose tractions and car wont brake properly.. in forza .. well its not that realistic as you might think.
 
Hereward
just wait till you play the game, or have ago at the demo, controled brakeing is required, stomp on the brakes with no abs on your stopping distance is much further than if you use progresive movement on the brakes, GT5p simulates locking up but not to the extent of completly locking the wheels, you do need to control your brakes and not just stomp on them.This can also be varied with the abs settings.
Click to expand...
I know you have to control your braking still, you had to do that in gt4 too, I just like seeing people epically fail when braking and just go straight into a wall.

NoxNoctis Umbra
We do not know yet if GT5 will have that feature.
I think in the small Lotus that I just drove At lest second the wheels locked.. I could hear a loud tire squeak..
besides TIRE LOCKING is not all that realistic.. most cars in GT5P are normal cars and ABS.. so its hard to lock them up.

Only way to make sure your wheels are locked up is when you are in grass or sand.

Besides, I play lots of PC sim games, and sometimes I may even put 100 percent pressure on the brake, and it does not lock the tires because the BRAKES are so overheated they tend to loose tractions and car wont brake properly.. in forza .. well its not that realistic as you might think.
Click to expand...
You can overcome the ABS in a real car if you really mash on the brakes. (which i would consider 100% braking force in a game) and I usually have ABS disabled if possible. (I've done it before in a few cars with ABS. I've even done it in school after repairing the abs in a car to check if it worked properly.)

I'm not saying forza is awesomely great with braking physics, but they are a lot closer than gt4 to getting it right, and if gt5 prolouge (although I doubt they will change that for the real game) hasn't fixed that yet, I don't think it's going to be much better.
 
Perfect Balance


You can overcome the ABS in a real car if you really mash on the brakes. (which i would consider 100% braking force in a game) .
Click to expand...

ABS only works when you "mash" the brakes, it's the system which stops the wheels from locking.
Are you describeing something else?
 
Hereward
ABS only works when you "mash" the brakes, it's the system which stops the wheels from locking.
Are you describeing something else?
Click to expand...
I know what ABS is, but I'm saying you can still lock the brakes enough that they are sliding the entire time even with ABS, I've done it myself in 4 cars off the top of my head.

The brakes release with the ABS, but when braking very hard at a decent speed, it's not enough to let the tires go back to rolling at normal speed, back to locked again. They just go from locked (still sliding) to rolling slightly (still sliding) And that's what give you a small bit of control.
 
Perfect Balance
I know what ABS is, but I'm saying you can still lock the brakes enough that they are sliding the entire time even with ABS, I've done it myself in 4 cars off the top of my head.

The brakes release with the ABS, but when braking very hard at a decent speed, it's not enough to let the tires go back to rolling at normal speed, back to locked again. They just go from locked (still sliding) to rolling slightly (still sliding) And that's what give you a small bit of control.
Click to expand...

On a really lose surface maybe but at speed on tarmac? never had this problem myself with ABS. Normaly all I get is a heavy vibration back though the brake pedal and on some cars an auidable clunking noise.

But onwards, just fired up the jpn gt5p demo, and seems you can't turn off the abs! you can set it between 0 and 10, but at 0 it's still active, if not great LOL You can even see the wheels finaly lock just before comeing to a halt, the sensation is amplified of course if you put on the standard road tyres, again theres still loads of understear induced by over brakeing. Personaly I don't want to be able to lock the wheels to the extent that I lose total control, I do however use the abs 0 setting but haveing not to worry about locking up completly suits me. Dose his make GT5p an arcade racer? not by a long chalk, a little easier to drive or rather a little more enjoyable to drive LOL
 
Hereward
On a really lose surface maybe but at speed on tarmac? never had this problem myself with ABS. Normaly all I get is a heavy vibration back though the brake pedal and on some cars an auidable clunking noise.
Click to expand...
Yep, on tarmac, along with the pedal vibration and clunking.
 
Tell me what cars they were so I can avoid ending up dead in them LOL, the past cars where I've had ABS would be a couple of BMW's a toyota and a honda oh and I was driving an alfa and had to jump on the brakes and that had abs as well, none of them locked up on me, I have managed to get the toyota to be a bit slidey under ABS but it was on snow and ice and nothing really to write home about.
 
I didn't expect no abs in GT5. Nox nice comment on "Forza a Sim". I say FM, GT, both sims, yea right. They are the best racers around for the console they are on.
What I'm interested in is whether or not I will be able to apply my no abs braking technique from FM2 to GT5P/GT5. In GT4 I always used full braking , but now with FM2 and no ABS I use threshold braking, and some trail braking when needed. I think I will run faster times in GT5p threshold braking and trying not to kick in that damn assist I can't turn off.
 
Hereward
Tell me what cars they were so I can avoid ending up dead in them LOL, the past cars where I've had ABS would be a couple of BMW's a toyota and a honda oh and I was driving an alfa and had to jump on the brakes and that had abs as well, none of them locked up on me, I have managed to get the toyota to be a bit slidey under ABS but it was on snow and ice and nothing really to write home about.
Click to expand...
Ford taurus, Kia Optima, Jeep Cherokee, Buick Lesabre, Honda Accord, Mitsubishi 3000gt, and Buick Park Avenue off the top of my head.


It's not a manufacturer defect, it's just how it works. If you slam the brakes while going 35, the wheel isn't going to stop, then speed up back to 35mph, then stop again 10 times every second or so. (or however much times they do it) They just go from stopped to slightly rolling, but they are still moving slower than the car until you reach a low speed, thus, still sliding. It's just the fact that the wheel is rolling a bit which helps you change direction.


EDIT: I have a big interest for how well different cars brake, hence the reason I've got such a list.
 
You can definitely lock up the tires on a road car without ABS...
 
This thread remind me of Are people confused? thread haha
 
If you can't turn off ABS in real life why should you be able to turn it off in the game?

One thing I hope that there is no ABS in the F1 car.
 
As was said early, you can tinker a little to turn ABS off.

If you can do all of the other tuning things, it seems that this would be easy...
 
QTS is VERY SERIOUS thing, it's not just a "quick setup". It allows you to adjust almost everything we know from "big" games to almost any car in almost any race.

You can adjust Power, Weight, Tyres, Aerodynamics (on tuned cars only and F2007 I guess), Ride Height, Spring Rate, Damper, Toe, Camber Angle, Brake Balance, F/R Torque Distribution (I presume for 4WD cars), TCS, ABS and Transmission (all gears + Final Gear Ratio)
Click to expand...

If I'm not mistaken, you couldn't even tune ABS in older GT game. I bet if you lower it you can lock up the tires.
 
Sure the new cars in the game would all have ABS, but what of the older cars in prologue?

Almost every day I see someone lock up at red traffic lights and slide to a stop. If I slam on the brakes in GT5P I just want the same thing to happen. Call Forza 2 rubbish all you like (and also GTR2 because I find the braking much the same in that game too), but it passes the 'what I see in daily life I see in the game' test. GT5P does not.

Shame because on every other level GT5P is awesome.
 
well, if Mercedes's have ABS, ESP etc in the game, they can not be turned off completely.. since it's just realistic. you simply CAN'T turn them completely off by yourself, you need to go to the local dealership and pay for it.
 
It should be able to be turned off on the Lexus ISF. Apparently there was a way the user could turn it off, and it would be off until teh car was turned off and turned on again. It involved pulling the handbrake, releasing it and pressiung the brakes in a certain order or something...maybe someone could google it.
 
Back