Brazil GP result may be changed!!

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Raikkonen may lose Brazil victory Due to new evidence from the FIA

McLaren's Kimi Raikkonen may be stripped of his Brazilian Grand Prix victory, following new evidence released by the FIA this morning.

The Finn was declared winner of the race, which was red-flagged on lap 55 following the shunt of Mark Webber and Fernando Alonso. However, sources claim Fisichella had already started his 56th lap, which would overturn the results, making him victorious.

A statement from the FIA read:
“The FIA has received evidence which suggests that, contrary to the information supplied by the time-keepers at the Brazilian Grand Prix, car no. 11 (Fisichella) had started his 56 th lap before the race was stopped. If this proves to be the case, the race classification would be that at the end of the 54 th lap and not at the end of the 53 rd lap as published.

In accordance with Article 179(b) of the International Sporting Code, the stewards of the Brazilian Grand Prix will re-convene on Friday 11 April at 11.00 hrs at the FIA headquarters in Paris to review the results of the event. All competitors who would be affected by any change to the classification are being invited to attend.”

The race win on Sunday was Raikkonen's second, giving him a total of 26 points in the Drivers' Championship. Should the result be overturned, this will decrease to 24, giving him a 9-point lead over team-mate, David Coulthard.
 
Oh, that would be SO irritating! I'd have to recalculate the Fantasy F1 scores! Grr!
 
According to the rules, if Fisichella was the only car to start the 56th lap, he would technically be the winner. It would make him "one lap ahead" on the results, even if he wasn't really one lap ahead.

History may repeat itself...the 1975 British Gp was the same sort of thing; rain ended the race, Emmerson Fittipaldi was the only car to begin the "last lap", a red flag ended things due to about 10 cars spinning out on the same lap, thus he was declared the winner.
 
It goes deeper than that though. If Fisichella had crossed the line, he would have been on lap 56, which would mean that 74.667% of the race would have been completed. One assumes this would have been rounded to 75%, thus enabling the award of full points, to Fisi.

However, if he had not crossed the line, then he would have been on lap 55, which is 73.333% race distance, which would mean that Raikkonen would have been the winner, but would have been awarded half points.
 
Fisi was ahead of Kimi, but the rules state that if the race is red flagged or stopped. They take everyones positions 2 laps prior to the accident, which was when Kimi was leading. But Fisi WAS leading at the time of the accident.



I really want Mclaren to keep their win. Because at this point, if Jordan did get awarded the win, the victory would be bitter sweet and they wouldnt be able to enjoy it as much.


It would have been way cooler if Jordan had won the race right then. When they had all that adrenaline and we (TV Spectators) could have enjoyed their win a lot more.
 
Originally posted by 12sec. Civic
Fisi was ahead of Kimi, but the rules state that if the race is red flagged or stopped. They take everyones positions 2 laps prior to the accident, which was when Kimi was leading. But Fisi WAS leading at the time of the accident.
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A technical, but crucial point, is that it's 2 laps prior to the red flag, not the accident - and this is where the problem is - no-one's 100% on when the red flag was actually shown - I have heard rumours it was actually shown prior to Alonso's incident.
 
Yeah. Thanks guys. I looked it up and I think this explains it pretty well. Along with the numeric info Giles provided:

The entire debacle is very confusing indeed. After passing the ailing McLaren of Kimi Raikkonen, Fisichella was well on his way to a possible victory, even if the race had lasted the distance. But the Jaguar of Mark Webber smashed on pit straight with Fernando Alonso crashing his Renault into the debris shortly afterwards, causing a red flag. This is where the confusion begins.




It was automatically assumed by Jordan that they had won their first race since 1999 as Giancarlo was definitely in the lead, and had been since the previous lap. But officials declared Kimi Raikkonen as the winner, the McLaren driver leading after the 53rd lap, the one officially declared as the final lap, not lap 54 as Jordan had assumed.

In the rules, the race is taken back two laps after the red flag is called but the FIA now have reason to believe that Fisichella was already over the line and onto his 56th lap, making the young Italian the new race winner, something team boss Eddie Jordan knew all along….

"I've spoken to Fisi, he and I believed that he'd won the race from the beginning," Jordan said. "That's why I was going with him up to the podium. We agree with the FIA that our evidence is exactly in keeping with theirs. There is no doubt that Fisichella had started lap 56 before the red flag and we are anxiously awaiting the result of Friday's meeting."
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
It goes deeper than that though. If Fisichella had crossed the line, he would have been on lap 56, which would mean that 74.667% of the race would have been completed. One assumes this would have been rounded to 75%, thus enabling the award of full points, to Fisi.
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But if you round that out properly, the actual race distance would come to 74.500%, handing Fisi the win and half points...

So it's a wierd, mucked-up system that no-one can figure out - so what else is new...
 
Originally posted by SandStorm
But if you round that out properly, the actual race distance would come to 74.500%, handing Fisi the win and half points...

So it's a wierd, mucked-up system that no-one can figure out - so what else is new...
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Indeed. It utterly depends upon the amount of decimal places you use to calculate the percentage!

Also, you can look at it in terms of time. GP races have to be a minimum of 190 miles or 2hrs, whichever is the lesser. Kimi's race-winning time was 1h29m53.179s, which is less than 75% of 2hrs. Since they were lapping in the 1m28s bracket, another lap would have tipped them over the 1hr30m mark, which is 75% of the race time
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
Indeed. It utterly depends upon the amount of decimal places you use to calculate the percentage!

Also, you can look at it in terms of time. GP races have to be a minimum of 190 miles or 2hrs, whichever is the lesser. Kimi's race-winning time was 1h29m53.179s, which is less than 75% of 2hrs. Since they were lapping in the 1m28s bracket, another lap would have tipped them over the 1hr30m mark, which is 75% of the race time
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Once again, it's a rooted system... :rolleyes:

Did they end up running 190 miles, that could have put them over?
 
My take on reading the rules is that the 75% thing is taken from when the red flag was shown. Also I understand the race was supposed to be 71 laps long.

Red flag shown on 55th lap: 77% of the way through - no problem

Michael Schumacher disagrees with me, believing the race should count for 1/2 points. But...

Rule 156 states The procedure to be followed varies according to the number of laps completed by the race leader before the signal to stop the race was given: [snip] Case C. 75% or more of the race distance (rounded up to the nearest whole number of laps). The cars will be sent directly to the parc ferme and the race will be deemed to have finished when the leading car crossed the line at the end of the lap two laps prior to that during which the signal was given

Anyway, what does MS know?
 
Originally posted by Wastegate
Anyway, what does MS know?
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He knows how to drive, that's for sure. He's just not always too knowledgeable about the sporting regulations.
 
the Australian guys would remember something similar happening at Bathurst win Jim Richards was given the win in his Nissan GTR although he had aquaplaned of the track

Just a question: can anybody remember what Jim said to the rather hostile crowd at the time? :D

Id love to see Fisi get his first win even if it is like this i dont really care. Can't wait for the FIA's decision on the matter
cheers
 
Originally posted by Bollocks#999
the Australian guys would remember something similar happening at Bathurst win Jim Richards was given the win in his Nissan GTR although he had aquaplaned of the track
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I remember that. That race was '92, wasn't it? The one where Skaifey was co-driving, and the same lap they went off, the red was shown.

It's also the one where Gentleman Jim goes, "you're nothing but a pack of arseholes!", which is most unlike him.

Is that the one you're talking about?
 
Indeed, the Brazilian result has been changed, and Fisichella has now been declared the official winner.
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
Indeed, the Brazilian result has been changed, and Fisichella has now been declared the official winner.
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Oh my God! I cant believe it! Damn, I really want Mclaren to win this year.

So, I take it he got full points?
 
Originally posted by 12sec. Civic
Oh my God! I cant believe it! Damn, I really want Mclaren to win this year.

So, I take it he got full points?
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Certainly did - standings are now:
Drivers
Kimi Raikkonen McLaren Mercedes 24
David Coulthard McLaren Mercedes 15
Fernando Alonso Renault 14
Giancarlo Fisichella Jordan Ford 10
Jarno Trulli Renault 9
Ralf Schumacher Williams BMW 8
Rubens Barrichello Ferrari 8
Michael Schumacher Ferrari 8
Juan Pablo Montoya Williams BMW 8
Heinz-Harald Frentzen Sauber Petronas 7
Jacques Villeneuve BAR Honda 3
Jenson Button BAR Honda 2
Nick Heidfeld Sauber Petronas 1

Constructors
McLaren Mercedes 39
Renault 23
Williams BMW 16
Ferrari 16
Jordan Ford 10
Sauber Petronas 8
BAR Honda 5
Jaguar 0
Toyota 0
Minardi Cosworth 0
 
When will Ford get it right in Formula 1? The works Ford (Jaguar) team is still on 0 points and their customer team has notched up a win already.
 
Originally posted by vat_man
Drivers
Kimi Raikkonen McLaren Mercedes 24
|
|
|
Michael Schumacher Ferrari 8


Constructors
McLaren Mercedes 39
|
|
|
Ferrari 16
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Never seen the table like that for a while.
 
The 2003 season has been full of interesting stuff all along. We've had 3 different drivers win 3 different GPs. The challenge for the championship this year is shaping up to be one of the best I've seen in a while .
 
Sandstorm you are correct 👍

great to see that (finally) Fisichella has a win
Reckon Eddie Jordan will be plumping for some more sponsership now or what? ;)
 
I want to see a midfielder like Fisichella WIN a race under normal conditions. Because IMO, Fisi got pretty lucky.



How many of you guys think he would have gone on to win the race, I know Kimi is faster than him. I dont have lap times, but I'm quite certain that he was lapping faster than him.
 
Originally posted by 12sec. Civic
I want to see a midfielder like Fisichella WIN a race under normal conditions. Because IMO, Fisi got pretty lucky.

How many of you guys think he would have gone on to win the race, I know Kimi is faster than him. I dont have lap times, but I'm quite certain that he was lapping faster than him.
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There can be little doubt that Fisichella was lucky. Under normal circumstances the Raikkonen/McLaren combination is easily faster than the Fisichella/Jordan one, but at the end of the Brazilian GP this was not the case.

Fisichella had caught and passed Raikkonen and was lapping faster than the Finn. The reason? He was on Bridgestones, and on a nearly dry track the Bridgestone intermediate is much better than the Michelin. All of the faster Bridgestone runners were out of the race, Schumacher, Barrichello and Button.

Had the race gone the full distance, it would have been either Coulthard or Fisichella to win depending on tires, whether slicks would have worked, and whether Fisichella could have held on without pitting, or made up a lot if time if he did pit. Coulthard had just pitted when Webber crashed and was less than six seconds behind the winner. IMO opinion it would have been DC, GF then KR.
 
I disagree - Jordan were super marginal on fuel, and Fisichella afterwards said they needed another safety car to get to the end without stopping - I think Webber would have snuck into third.
 
Originally posted by vat_man
I disagree - Jordan were super marginal on fuel, and Fisichella afterwards said they needed another safety car to get to the end without stopping - I think Webber would have snuck into third.
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Yes, but had Alonso not piled into Webber's wreckage, Jordan would have had the safety car period they desired, which would have got them to the finish. However, Raikkonen would have pitted, DC would have caught Fisi, and blown him away after the safety car went in.

Oh, and Vat, it was fairly unlikely that Webber would have snuck into third, what with him having no wheels, no wings etc!
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
Yes, but had Alonso not piled into Webber's wreckage
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That was an amazing crash.

Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
Oh, and Vat, it was fairly unlikely that Webber would have snuck into third, what with him having no wheels, no wings etc!
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He might've, maybe it was Webbers way of reducing weight. ;)




:lol:
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
Yes, but had Alonso not piled into Webber's wreckage, Jordan would have had the safety car period they desired, which would have got them to the finish. However, Raikkonen would have pitted, DC would have caught Fisi, and blown him away after the safety car went in.

Oh, and Vat, it was fairly unlikely that Webber would have snuck into third, what with him having no wheels, no wings etc!
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Well - clearly I was talking if Webber hadn't shunted...:p
 
Nah, Webber was just taking off the unneccessary parts of his car, ie wing, wheels, to reduce weight! That way he would have won... :crazy:
 

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