Britain - The Official Thread

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How will you vote in the 2024 UK General Election?

  • Conservative Party

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Green Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Labour Party

    Votes: 14 48.3%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Other (Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland)

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • Other Independents

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other Parties

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Spoiled Ballot

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Will Not/Cannot Vote

    Votes: 8 27.6%

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
I just finished watching the debate and I'm going to post some of my dull thoughts on each party leader.

Ed Miliband: He was the only one on stage who spoke like the leader of a country. He's the most authoritative and self assured. However, he damaged himself and his party every single time he mentioned Cameron or the Tories, and he did that very, very often. He started off strong, but weakened in actual debate. He should have promoted Labour as the best party, but he ended up promoting them as the party that isn't the Tories. I felt, however, that he still gave of an air of great intelligence. He's a bit of a geek, as he's not the best at representing himself in public, but he's a smart guy. He came off as a somewhat conservative because he was placed on a stage next to three more left wing parties and one raving lunatic. His policy seemed measured but not decisive. On the whole, it was an okay performance for him, and the only reason he didn't do poorly was that Cameron refused to show.

Leanne Wood: She wasn't very memorable. She's not personable enough, and her delivery is too practised, almost forced. It sounded like she was reading from notes in front of her rather than speaking from her head. However, she represented her party fairly well, and her performance was consistent throughout. Her policy seemed very similar to that of the SNP and the Greens, to the point where there seemed like there was little differentiating her from those two. What was lacking was emotion, and I think with a bit more passion she would have delivered a more detailed representation of their manifesto. Overall, however, she gave a fairly forgettable performance.

Natalie Bennett: I felt that she did a very good job in this debate. I'm biased, admittedly, in that my views line up most closely with the Greens. I felt her policy was well represented and that she was one of the best at actually debating. She said the right things and said them well. However, I did feel that she seemed a little inexperienced on stage. In stark contrast to Miliband's confidence, she seemed a little unpolished in her manner. By the end she was doing better, but overall she didn't exude the air of experience one would want in a leader. That's not to say that she did poorly, but she doesn't seem as experienced as the others. She was still my favourite, but I'm not sure I could credit her with a win.

Nicola Sturgeon: Strong performance here. Like Natalie Bennett, her policy was clear and well represented, and she did an excellent job of debating on stage. She also seemed calm and confident. I can't think of much that I can fault her with, really. The one thing she did too much was mention Cameron and the Tories, though she wasn't as guilty of this transgression as Miliband, and she did it in a way that still made her look strong. I'd give her the debate win by a small margin.

Nigel Farage: :lol: What an idiot. He insulted the panelists and the audience, and even the BBC. He really wasn't on the same level as the others. He didn't behave like a statesman or a politician or a leader, he behaved like a child. To call him the loser gives him more credit than he deserves.

David Cameron: He was the whipping boy for the entire debate. He looked weak and cowardly for not appearing, and he was the real loser here. Not appearing on the debate was an appalling political blunder, and I wouldn't be surprised if it costs him the election.

Nick Clegg: Who? The debate went on as if the Lib Dems didn't exist, which highlights their lack of identity separate form the Tories. They have a lot of work to do in the next five years to build up an image and an awareness. As it is, they're not really a player here.
 
Interesting....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-strongest-Where-there-are-no-immigrants.html

....seems that the areas of strongest UKIP support are those with some of the lowest levels of immigration.

Not surprising considering UKIPs constantly painted as a racist party despite not actually having any racist policies.

Also, @Beeblebrox237, wasn't the agreement that this debate would be a debate solely for the opposition parties which is why David Cameron and Nick Clegg weren't there? If so it doesn't make sense to say they were weak and cowardly for not showing up, because they weren't invited.
 
@Spurgy 777 Cameron would have been much better served by debating. As it was, everyone attacked him and he ended up looking very weak indeed.
 
Not surprising considering UKIPs constantly painted as a racist party despite not actually having any racist policies.
While that is officially true the actions of a number of the party members and its supporters is concerning to say the least.

Out local UKIP candidate was fine when I answered the door and the recent local elections, however when my anglo-indian wife came to the door a few moments later the change of expression and body language was more than interesting.



Also, @Beeblebrox237, wasn't the agreement that this debate would be a debate solely for the opposition parties which is why David Cameron and Nick Clegg weren't there? If so it doesn't make sense to say they were weak and cowardly for not showing up, because they weren't invited.
Some of which was down to DC's own unhappiness at not being able to set the structure for the debates in a manner he wanted.

Quite frankly I think we should have a set criteria for election debates that is independently managed and the candidates and their parties are unable to meddle with.
 
While that is officially true the actions of a number of the party members and its supporters is concerning to say the least.

Out local UKIP candidate was fine when I answered the door and the recent local elections, however when my anglo-indian wife came to the door a few moments later the change of expression and body language was more than interesting.

Yes, they do attract some racist candidates too for the same reason they attract some racist supporters, i.e. they're painted as a racist party, which UKIP try to address by banning ex-members of the BNP for example (although they could and should do more). But I tend to judge a party by it's policies and not by the odd loon candidate it might have, especially considering a lot of these loons came from the main parties, so you can't really get away from them anyway (unless you vote for none of them).

Some of which was down to DC's own unhappiness at not being able to set the structure for the debates in a manner he wanted.

Quite frankly I think we should have a set criteria for election debates that is independently managed and the candidates and their parties are unable to meddle with.

I agree, I don't know why the broadcasters listened at all, but at the end of the day, the last debate was set up to be solely for the opposition parties, so calling DC weak and cowardly for not turning up doesn't make any sense. It's not like we hadn't already had a debate with all the parties already.

@Spurgy 777 Cameron would have been much better served by debating. As it was, everyone attacked him and he ended up looking very weak indeed.

Again, he wasn't invited, you can't call someone weak and cowardly for not turning up to a debate they weren't allowed to turn up for.
 
Again, he wasn't invited, you can't call someone weak and cowardly for not turning up to a debate they weren't allowed to turn up for.

Yes he was, it was his decision not to take part in this debate. For that reason it became an "Opposition Debate"... the disadvantage fell to Clegg as it was him who was uninvited by dint of not-being-Opposition.

Incidentally, I was listening to Danny "Ginger Rodent" Alexander on t'wireless the other day (the old sort of wireless) and I was struck by how hard the Libs are going after the SNP, UKIP and the Greens. He did little to bring focus to Libs .vs. Whigs or Libs .vs. Reds.

He also refused to rule out a coalition with anyone up-to-and-probably Satan and his minions themselves. Anything for another sniff of the high table.
 
Yes he was, it was his decision not to take part in this debate. For that reason it became an "Opposition Debate"... the disadvantage fell to Clegg as it was him who was uninvited by dint of not-being-Opposition.

Very well then, if that's they case then I am wrong (do you have a citation for this?), I assumed that when the BBC said DC wasn't there was because it was an opposition debate that he hadn't been invited to this one at all.
 
Very well then, if that's they case then I am wrong (do you have a citation for this?), I assumed that when the BBC said DC wasn't there was because it was an opposition debate that he hadn't been invited to this one at all.

There's a link in my original reply to you. As I said; Cameron refused to take part in this one so it was classified as an "Opposition Debate". Nick Clegg was therefore unable to be invited.

EDIT: More.
 
If people were searching Google to find out "what is quantitative easing" or "what is The Human Instrumentality Project" during a political debate, then I could understand. But NATO? I'm surprised that people who don't know what NATO is were watching the debate.
 
@TenEightyOne The only thing I read in both of the links you gave that supports your argument was this;

"In fact, the broadcasters originally proposed three debates involving Cameron, but he only agreed to take part in one seven-way contest, which was broadcast on ITV two weeks ago. The Conservatives repeatedly resisted him taking part in more than one debate, including a head-to-head with Miliband, and ruled out doing any during the short campaign."

Which is a little vague and lacking in detail and context, and I did some digging myself and can't see any mention by the BBC of how they had to switch the debate from the seven party debate to an "opposition" debate. Any other sources?
 
Ed Miliband: He was the only one on stage who spoke like the leader of a country. He's the most authoritative and self assured. However, he damaged himself and his party every single time he mentioned Cameron or the Tories, and he did that very, very often. He started off strong, but weakened in actual debate. He should have promoted Labour as the best party, but he ended up promoting them as the party that isn't the Tories.
That's a problem that pretty much all Western democracies are facing at the moment. With national economies becoming increasingly dictated by global markets, governments are losing the ability to argue for their party on the grounds of their economic management, rendering them impotent. So you're just going through the same thing that we have had for the past few years: the current government blames the previous one for all the problems they can't fix, and the opposition has no real policies except "we're not that party".
 
That's a problem that pretty much all Western democracies are facing at the moment. With national economies becoming increasingly dictated by global markets, governments are losing the ability to argue for their party on the grounds of their economic management, rendering them impotent. So you're just going through the same thing that we have had for the past few years: the current government blames the previous one for all the problems they can't fix, and the opposition has no real policies except "we're not that party".
I would say the opposite, Governments are in more control of their countries Fiscal Management then ever from Global markets, heres a chart showing how little damage the 2008 GEC did to Australian Interest rates compared to the early 90s recession which by Global market perspective was no where near as damaging:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/australia-interest-rate.png?s=rbatctr&d1=19900101&d2=20151231
 
Could it be because UKIP's clearly not very popular among immigrants?
I don't know about the others but for that patch of support just East of London it is likely due to White Flight. A lot of White British moved from London, especially the East End to Essex as they felt alienated by the culture rapidly developing amongst the influx of immigrants. You are seeing it in my area - even the immigrants from the 60's to 80's are leaving, which is largely due to the huge amount of EU immigration. There is a clear demarcation of Polish (North) + (South) + Somalian (even more South) areas, and it is now rare for me to hear English on the public transport or streets from the underground station to my house about 2 miles away. The entire demographic of this part of London has changed in the past 5 years, so much so that there are practically no white British in primary schools any more compared to them being a majority when I went to school.

It is sad to see as essentially my childhood town is gone. People accuse anyone concerned of "racism" and we have to put up with things we didn't have before. Drinking in parks has become a problem overnight and GP surgeries are struggling to cope. I think of the positives of diversity but the fact is the new immigrants stick to their own unfortunately, leaving the indigenous or older immigrants little choice but to move or form closer ties with people of their own race.
 
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I don't know about the others but for that patch of support just East of London it is likely due to White Flight. A lot of White British moved from London, especially the East End to Essex as they felt alienated by the culture rapidly developing amongst the influx of immigrants. You are seeing it in my area - even the immigrants from the 60's to 80's are leaving, which is largely due to the huge amount of EU immigration. There is a clear demarcation of Polish (North) + (South) + Somalian (even more South) areas, and it is now rare for me to hear English on the public transport or streets from the underground station to my house about 2 miles away. The entire demographic of this part of London has changed in the past 5 years, so much so that there are practically no white British in primary schools any more compared to them being a majority when I went to school.

It is sad to see as essentially my childhood town is gone. People accuse anyone concerned of "racism" and we have to put up with things we didn't have before. Drinking in parks has become a problem overnight and GP surgeries are struggling to cope. I think of the positives of diversity but the fact is the new immigrants stick to their own unfortunately, leaving the indigenous or older immigrants little choice but to move or form closer ties with people of their own race.
In Canada and the U.S. both, it's very common for Conservative candidates to draw major support from outside the major cities and major populated areas. In the U.S. for example, electoral maps are usually blue (liberal) on in the densely populated areas of California, the Northwest, the Eastern Seaboard, around the great lakes etc. , most of the areas with the highest population density. Most of the interior is red (conservative) where the less sparsely populated, less urban regions of the country dominate. There are exceptions here and there of course, but by and large it's the trend in most elections.
 
In Canada and the U.S. both, it's very common for Conservative candidates to draw major support from outside the major cities and major populated areas. In the U.S. for example, electoral maps are usually blue (liberal) on in the densely populated areas of California, the Northwest, the Eastern Seaboard, around the great lakes etc. , most of the areas with the highest population density. Most of the interior is red (conservative) where the less sparsely populated, less urban regions of the country dominate. There are exceptions here and there of course, but by and large it's the trend in most elections.
This is generally true here too I believe (I'm not big on it).

Seats generally stay in the same hands regardless so there's little incentive for a lot of people to vote at present (hence the discussions earlier about changing the system). This shows a general map of the constituencies that are thought to be "safe":

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...postcode-one-25million-voters-know-MP-be.html

For reference, my area is Labour, has been Labour since before I was born and will be Labour. My next door constituency's MP has been the same for 17 years and the UKIP candidate is actually very probably an Islamist (http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne..._suspended_over_planning_allegations/?ref=rss and the comments here http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news...pakistani-politician-entrepreneur-new-7879983) leaving the UKIP leaning voters left there in a bit of a conundrum!!

But it's not a simple matter of Left and Right - UKIP add an immigrant dimension to a lot of ordinary voters. If you look at the interactive map on the telegraph closely you'll see a lot of them are Labour too, with some Lib Dems. An interesting case is at the top left, where there's a cluster of Labour seats showing red. This is Greater Manchester, the scene of the Rochdale grooming gangs.

It is generally working class White British who suffer most from immigration. Find where they form a majority, and you find UKIP support.
 
For reference, my area is Labour, has been Labour since before I was born and will be Labour. My next door constituency's MP has been the same for 17 years and the UKIP candidate is actually very probably an Islamist (http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne..._suspended_over_planning_allegations/?ref=rss

Your link shows that he was most likely involved in dodgy planning applications, not that he's probably an Islamist. He was Labour at the time of the allegations (no mention of UKIP) and the Liberal mentioned also has a very Isla'mic name. Those types should have their own special party, right?

But it's not a simple matter of Left and Right - UKIP add an immigrant dimension to a lot of ordinary voters. If you look at the interactive map on the telegraph closely you'll see a lot of them are Labour too, with some Lib Dems.

What does that even mean?

An interesting case is at the top left, where there's a cluster of Labour seats showing red. This is Greater Manchester, the scene of the Rochdale grooming gangs.

Your agenda yet again. Look up Pimlico, as true-blue as it gets, and the scene of some of the most vicious, instutionalised grooming that the British establishment has yet been found to be involved in. The white, British, establishment.

You need to grow out of the idea that all bad people come from certain groups which you can easily identify and target (traffic wardens aside), it does you no favours, in my opinion.
 
Your link shows that he was most likely involved in dodgy planning applications, not that he's probably an Islamist. He was Labour at the time of the allegations (no mention of UKIP) and the Liberal mentioned also has a very Isla'mic name. Those types should have their own special party, right?
Planning permission for what...
I'm afraid you have to know a little of East London Islamic politics to really understand.

TenEightyOne
What does that even mean?
JohnnyPenso assumed it was a conservative only party. I was showing that's not the case.

TenEightyOne
Your agenda yet again.
Common sense yet again.

TenEightyOne
Look up Pimlico, as true-blue as it gets, and the scene of some of the most vicious, instutionalised grooming that the British establishment has yet been found to be involved in. The white, British, establishment.
Are you a child. There was neither an immigrant nor racial backdrop there. If the grooming associated with Pimlico was even a factor in voters minds, how would turning UKIP do anything about it. Your point is completely non-sensisical.

TenEightyOne
You need to grow out of the idea that all bad people come from certain groups which you can easily identify and target (traffic wardens aside), it does you no favours, in my opinion.
OK dad.
 
Planning permission for what...
I'm afraid you have to know a little of East London Islamic politics to really understand.

For something in which we can fairly presume he had an interest. You seem to find the fact that's he's Isla'amic causative to his behaviour rather than his base humanity.

Common sense yet again.

That's the frightening part, you genuinely believe that the Ahmeds are Under The Beds (to mangle an old phrase), try opening your eyes a little wider

Are you a child.

No, which is why I can use question marks.

There was neither an immigrant nor racial backdrop there.

Not even the one that you yourself have called attention to at some length?


And give that bloody room a clean.
 
Someone didn't read the article

Presumptuous.

Dishonest people usually act in their own interests. The fact that this application for a mosque is, I imagine, what you feel proves your point as the forum's constant Islamophobe. Your "is probably an Islamist" seemed as irrelvant as ever except to your own agenda, as usual.
 
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