Britain - The Official Thread
- Thread starter Ross
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- merseyxshore
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Emily Maitlis's 'Boiling Frog' Speech...
It's lengthy (45 mins+), but puts an interesting perspective on a lot of swirling observations the average person may have had.
It's lengthy (45 mins+), but puts an interesting perspective on a lot of swirling observations the average person may have had.
- 437
- Merseyside
- merseyxshore
- 7,809
- Horbury, West Yorkshire
- GTP_Sprite
I’m so glad I’m not in the office today and also on 1 October. It’s going to be hell for those answering customers questions.
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I get the sentiment, but I don't like how this is generally reported. "Energy bills will rise to £3,549 in October", is just flat out misleading, and likely causes panic among people that don't know how that sum was arrived at. Why don't they just use £/kWh? prices... still not 100% accurate but makes a lot more sense and is less sensational. It's like reporting petrol prices as £1274 per year, instead of £1.80/litre -- which do they think is more useful??
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- GTP_Mars
Because the increase in energy bills are not just about the price of electricity or gas, but include potentially massive increases in standing charge costs as well... one could cut one's energy use to an absolute minimum and still face massively higher bills.
- 23,887
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
I suppose the 'average energy bill price' per household is likely to be a closer representation than average yearly petrol/diesel costs per driver as yearly mileage varies massively from one person to another. Much of the yearly total is standing charges anyway, which everyone pays. It's like if you rolled into the yearly petrol prices, your MOT, tax and servicing costs.
And also tree'd by TM
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That's not really any less accurate than taking an unknown usage at an unknown rate, adding in an unknown standing charge, and expecting people to apply that to their own situation, is it? It's just not helpful or informative, if people don't know what 'average' is, how do they know how they relate to it?
On the standing charge thing, granted it's for business, but where we're currently paying 27p/day standing charge. Renewal rates I was quoted on Tuesday included daily standing charges of 31p, 56p, 80p and ~£3, depending on the provider. The £3 one was EDF. 80p comes with 52p/kWh rate, I think that's what I'll have to sign at, but I'm not yet sure of the term for that. That actually wouldn't make a massive difference to our costs, but all our materials now come with an energy surcharge of ~5%, and that starts pushing our costs up quite a bit more.
- 2,157
- Australia
Does anyone know the sum to arrive at the figure of elec costs running a PC using say 100watts, for lets say 2 hours?
Based on oct elec price of 0.52p pkwh.
Cheers.
Not thinking ever of not using my PC but want some perspective and then i can work out other usages.
Based on oct elec price of 0.52p pkwh.
Cheers.
Not thinking ever of not using my PC but want some perspective and then i can work out other usages.
- 86,639
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
A kilowatthour is the supply of 1kW for 1 hour. Multiply power supply in kW by time in hours to arrive at the consumption in kWh.
100W for 2 hours is therefore 0.1 x 2, or 0.2kWh (or 200Wh).
Assuming you mean 52p, as that's the projected cost per kWh, 52p x 0.2kWh = 10.4p.
- 2,157
- Australia
So running a PC costs very little then.
All this talk of 'vampire' electrical goods that suck out energy, it will not scratch the surface will it?
Yeah you could turn off your TV at the plug every night but for what 10 quid saving over the year?
Its the big ticket stuff like heating in winter, washing machine, dryer, fridge, essential's in a first world.
Going to be some serious pain coming up, can you imagine the knock on effects to business's costs, thus passed on costs to consumers.
It'll make covid seem like a balll.
- 86,639
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- GTP_Famine
I don't know. Is 100W typical usage for a PC? My GPU uses twice that (220W) at peak, and it's not exactly a high-powered gaming machine. If you take into account the screen you need, it's likely to be much more.
A quick Google suggests an average of 250-400W for a regular desktop and 600W for a gaming PC, including the display. Used 10hr a day (my PC is on 14hr a day at best) that's £475 of electricity consumption per year.
- 29,132
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
I stopped into my mate's old pub in Edinburgh for old time's sake last night, and told the barman that I not only used to work there, but physically helped to build the bar in 1994. He told me, however, that the bar is closing on Monday and that he will be out of a job. He also added that a staggering 70% of bars in Edinburgh are predicted to close this winter - a shocking figure, though I don't know who his sources are - but considering I used to know the family that owned that very same bar, these folks generally have a much better idea of what is going on in the industry, especially locally... the pub in question has seen a few changes of ownership since I worked there, and it is a tiny pub - but considering it is in the heart of Edinburgh, it is worrying to see them going under, and I do imagine that the cost of living crisis is going to spell the end of many bars and restaurants.
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That's really going to depend on the business.
As a manufacturing business the increase to our energy bills isn't small in terms of the simple £ amount, but in perspective the increase doesn't change anything by more than a couple of percent, power just isn't that big of an overhead compared to rent, rates and wages. We're a profitable business with a sensible gross margin, so we can take that hit without really blinking in the short term. Making this money back would be less than 1% on our prices.
Roughly speaking, giving our staff a pay rise to cover their home energy bill increase, would cost probably double what our own energy does.
As I mentioned earlier, we're now seeing energy surcharges added to materials (plastics, papers, etc.) of about 5%, which probably isn't unreasonable as processing raw is likely to be more energy intense than what we do. So, in real terms, a combination of our direct and indirect cost increases will be 5-10%. We can take that hit from our margins in the short term, in the longer term, it has to be passed on to our customers, ultimately it's the NHS that pays the bills.
Covid was way, way, way worse. Loosing effectively years worth of productive labour to lock downs, supply chains collapsing, demand going up as people try to mitigate their own risks of supply chain failure, having to deal with all that **** (on top of Brexit), whilst not being able to live a normal life outside of work was pretty much mentally and emotionally crippling, though the £ amount we could attribute to it, probably wasn't much.
On the flipside, my boss also owns a Bar/Cafe. Because he's running chillers, fridges, coolers (things that stay on 24/7), A/C, cookers and warmers, lighting for the music stage etc., all day, all night etc. His energy bill increase per month is more than our total energy bill is for the factory for 2 or 3 months. It's a much bigger chunk of their overhead, their costs for other things are going up too, and as people have less money, they'll see their takings drop too... I can see Hospitality getting absolutely battered again, and maybe for them, it will be worse than Covid, as there won't be any support this time.
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- 437
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- merseyxshore
Imo it doesn't matter, it's still the same rise regardless of unit. The average person doesn't have a frame of reference for £/kwh, but they know their rough yearly spend. People should be angry and panicked about this, as we are about to be absolutely Donald Ducked and we need to collectively take action.
Scaff
Moderator
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The only additional thing I would like the reporting to do is then divide it by 12 and give a monthly figure and 52 for a weekly figure, as for many those are the most relevant. Just saying that it's £295 a month or £68.25 a week would be far more helpful.
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The implication is that someone who's high use at the moment will see a smaller increase than someone who's low use - when it's the opposite that is true.
They don't have a frame of reference for how close to 'typical' usage they are, or even which side of the average they are? At least their rates are on their bills, which they should absolutely be looking at now.
People should informed, and I don't believe this statement is informative "It's just been confirmed: energy bills will rise to £3,549 in October."
Since I was trying to get an idea of exactly how much energy this bill equates to I had a look at the Ofgem website. Of the typical £3549 bill*, this will include a capped standing charge** for electricity and gas of £167.90 and £102.20 per year respectively, totalling £270.10 per year (£22.51/mo, £5.19/wk for Scaff) - this means that 92.3% of the 'typical' bill arises from consumption.
If that's the case I would still be recommending people did as much as they could to eliminate consumption. Reading more about what Ofgem say...
At the current capped rates of 52p and 15p per kwh (electricity and gas respectively), and Ofgems typical medium usage scenarios the amounts of energy breakdown as follows: 2900 kWh and 12000 kWh (electricity and gas respectively) per year, costing £1508 and £1800 respectively, add back in the standing charge and you get £3578... which is fairly close to what's being quoted.
Ofgem's Low and High useage scenarios can also be calculated:
Low usage (1800kWh/8000kWh) works out as £2406 per year (£200.50/mo, £46.27/wk)
Medium useage (2900kWh/12000kWh) works out as £3578 per year (£298.18/mo, £68.81/wk)
High usage (4300kWh/17000kWh) works out as £5056 per year (£421.34/mo, £97.23/wk)
It does appear that cutting consumption will help significantly even if the standing charges are sat at the capped rate.
*as far as I can tell this amount relates to a house that uses both gas and electric.
**I understand that a price capped bill isn't actually capped because usage can change, but I'm assuming the standing charge is effectively fixed useage.
If I've got the wrong end of the stick on any of these calculations please do correct me.
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- Horbury, West Yorkshire
- GTP_Sprite
Seem spot on to me.
The issue I take with all the price mess is the standing charge rise. Others have said it before already here in this thread.
Taking into account cost of energy production and and global trading is one thing and I’d expect a kWh rise. The standing charge however is not for the cost of that, but just the supply to your home and it’s upkeep. So while I agree a small increase in that to cover wages etc of engineers and cost of maintaining I don’t think such a huge increase, the likes we have seen is needed.
The problem is, the energy sector has become too complex for the average Joe to navigate, and for those who do want to seek out the best costs and ways to reduce and in the end understand what they use and how to reduce it, they find red tape and hurdles galore.
When I have spoken with customers I’ve advised them to take some time and really look over their consumption, take reads and try and pin point what is being used and why. If a person can do this then they have a good chance of reducing costs but not at the expense of lifestyle too much. However most people don’t want to and is some cases refuse to, which is weird.
For myself as an example, I know I’m going to use a lot of gas, this isn’t through wasteful and frivolous use, but just the fact I live in an old house which is draughty and can’t be made less without huge sums of money etc. so I’ve always paid over the odds on my Direct Debit to keep in front. I get a refund and it goes back on to the account the next day at my annual assessment. I reckon it’s going to cost us £2000 this winter in energy costs and because I’ve been ploughing extra money in to the accounts I’m at £1000 in front so far. So I still have to pay in around £1000 in 7 months Sep to Mar. Which my £150 per month should cover. Thankfully we work from home so basically my cost of travelling to work has been eaten up now by cost of energy. Next year though it’s going to start to eat into other things too so not going to be fun.
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I can't disagree with this, but it goes back to what I said a couple of pages back... energy has been very high value, fairly low cost, for years, increases that take that to ~£270 year might be unjustified, but are insignificant next to the cost of just trying to keep a roof over your head. £270 a year becomes a cost of living crisis because this has been allowed to happen...
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- Horbury, West Yorkshire
- GTP_Sprite
O
I was lucky to get on and buy before prices got too crazy.
The house we bought was sold before us for around £60,000 in about ‘97 of my memory serves, we bought it for £145,000 in 2018 and it’s currently estimated to be £180,000 to £200,000.
While I’m obviously happy about the equity in the house, I do feel for those struggling to get on the ladder, renting can be a hard rut to get out of especially if income isn’t covering everything.
Cost of living of everything is insane now. Food costs are quite high and even basics are spiralling.
What’s even worse is things like food banks are going to get less given to them, I noticed the basket in our local co-op had much less food in than normal. This basket was set up so you can put things in as you pass, so when shopping you can pick up some extra things and give them to charity. Normally it’s overflowing.
I agree whole heartedly.
I was lucky to get on and buy before prices got too crazy.
The house we bought was sold before us for around £60,000 in about ‘97 of my memory serves, we bought it for £145,000 in 2018 and it’s currently estimated to be £180,000 to £200,000.
While I’m obviously happy about the equity in the house, I do feel for those struggling to get on the ladder, renting can be a hard rut to get out of especially if income isn’t covering everything.
Cost of living of everything is insane now. Food costs are quite high and even basics are spiralling.
What’s even worse is things like food banks are going to get less given to them, I noticed the basket in our local co-op had much less food in than normal. This basket was set up so you can put things in as you pass, so when shopping you can pick up some extra things and give them to charity. Normally it’s overflowing.
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Crazy if true
- 86,639
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Crazy if new:
Canada silent on alleged CSIS links to man helping girls go to Syria
Man accused of helping to smuggle British girls into Syria reported to have attempted to trade info with Canadian embassy in Jordan
www.theglobeandmail.com
ISIS double agent reveals the names of 140 Brits who have become jihadists
The revelation came as three male British teenagers were held in Istanbul trying to get into Syria
www.mirror.co.uk
2015
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100W can be quite a sizeable figure for just typical usage for a modern PC unless it is quite inefficient or quite a low figure if one is gaming for majority of that time. 250W usage for ten hours a day even if you had a really high-end gaming PC including a typical LCD monitor will still take some doing to average, unless you are a heavy gamer playing for majority of the time or use PC continously doing tasks that require high levels of processing power like rendering stuff.
High-end gaming laptops tend to be more efficient than desktop PCs so browsing a website such as GTPlanet ten hours a day for a year would probably cost less than £50 and this includes power consumption for display, Ryzen 9 8-core CPU and RTX 3080 GPU + Radeon GPU. It would probably cost less than a tenner to do the same on a high-end smartphone.
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- Australia
1080p 60hz, rtx 3070, according to MSI its using 60-70watts at peak on MSFS.
I don't run 'prefer max performance' .
My GPU isn't even close to breaking sweat on even a game like MSFS.
Something like AC its doing 50-55watts at peak.
CPU at about 30-40watts.
I use it about 2 hours ish a day?
Nothing will stop me using the PC, even it if was 500 a year, 40 quid a month its worth every penny.
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- 86,639
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
This is all over the local papers today. Well, all the Reach Group ones.
I won't bother linking it, but that's it. That's the art. It's a large picture upon which several candles have been placed, and that qualifies it as a portrait made out of candles, somehow.
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