BSpec + Chassis degradation experiment.

[ODB]

A change in rigidity is effectively a change in setup; the setup you had was optimal for the mint rigidity (or at least, you were used to it that way), and loses that optimality as the chassis rigidity changes, in either direction.

Heh I never sort of thought it that way, but I guess there could be ways to make the car stiffer responding to the chassis getting looser. and that way being able to make same lap times. One problem is that by making the car stiffer in other ways usually hurts the cornering ability so sticking with good body rigidity would seem like a logical thing to do, although in the world of PD logic is quite scares sometimes so who knows...

Something to test is to re-do the setup at reduced chassis rigidity, run a few laps to get it optimised / get used to it, then restore the chassis and see how things go on the new setup.

Well I guess the biggest problem in tuning is finding the good balance to make the car loose enough but of course not too loose for it be too hard to handle, balancing between these two I would love to have as stable and reliable platform as I possible can and there for keeping the car in mint condition would be the way to go, again...

I am still doubtful that Bob will care about such a subtle change in the setup - has anybody tested that? The difference between a human lap with a given setup difference, and Bob's laps? Chassis rigidity is a dynamic stability thing mostly, so something like roll bars and / or dampers, possibly weight distribution, would be a good place to start.

The way it seems to me that body rigidity only matters when you are taking the car to it's limits and trying to keep it there, that's why on time trial trying to keep the car on the limit the whole lap good chassis would help a lot, so as on basic race driving it would be rather stupid to even try to go that fast all the time as in TT for so high risk, the whole chassis thing loses its meaning, or at least it's way lesser, and the meaning in the first place seems really subtle so it's so small thing hard to believe it would affect the B-spec driver... Would be interesting to know how Bob actually compares to real driver, has anyone done any tests?

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I am still doubtful that Bob will care about such a subtle change in the setup - has anybody tested that? The difference between a human lap with a given setup difference, and Bob's laps? Chassis rigidity is a dynamic stability thing mostly, so something like roll bars and / or dampers, possibly weight distribution, would be a good place to start.

Yes, I have. I tuned a Nascar to peak performance on Motegi Speedway, tweaking everything on it to get the best possible laps. I ran it up to a bit over 600 miles which is well past the point where the indicator turns yellow. I then bought a new one and put the same tune on it and drove both cars there. The cars felt 100% the same. My best lap was identical in both cars. and all laps driven were very close to the same. There was no difference in feel in them.

 

[ODB]

Yes, I have. I tuned a Nascar to peak performance on Motegi Speedway, tweaking everything on it to get the best possible laps. I ran it up to a bit over 600 miles which is well past the point where the indicator turns yellow. I then bought a new one and put the same tune on it and drove both cars there. The cars felt 100% the same. My best lap was identical in both cars. and all laps driven were very close to the same. There was no difference in feel in them.

Heh just to make it clear, the body rigidity deterioration is just a thing making some indicator change colors, but it has not any other affect to the cars handling?

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Heh just to make it clear, the body rigidity deterioration is just a thing making some indicator change colors, but it has not any other affect to the cars handling?

No, I think the indicator just comes on sooner than it should in GT6. In previous GT versions you could not do a restore on the rigidity until it needed it and it was always at a much higher mileage than the point that it comes on now. At what point it starts to have an effect I can't say. I can say that it does not have an effect at the low mileage where it first becomes yellow. I have saw a few people who say it does and that they are slower but after testing it myself in a case where I can consistently turn the same lap times over and over again there was absolutely no difference between a car with 0 miles and one that had been yellow for more than 200 miles.

In the case of Bob running on the Ring. He was turning 27:3x in a new car and he is still turning 27:3x in a car that now has 6000 miles on it even gets a 27:2x sometimes. I drove the car myself a few laps when it was around 5000 miles and it drove just fine. Of course that is just one car and it is possible that it actually handles better now than it did at 0 miles.

Consider that the rigidity will have the biggest effect in corners then consider how many corners there are on Nurburgring 24hr layout, then 3 laps of that. Even the slightest issue with the handling of the car should result in several seconds lost over the course of the race but there has been no indication of that so far.

 

[ODB]

No, I think the indicator just comes on sooner than it should in GT6. In previous GT versions you could not do a restore on the rigidity until it needed it and it was always at a much higher mileage than the point that it comes on now. At what point it starts to have an effect I can't say. I can say that it does not have an effect at the low mileage where it first becomes yellow. I have saw a few people who say it does and that they are slower but after testing it myself in a case where I can consistently turn the same lap times over and over again there was absolutely no difference between a car with 0 miles and one that had been yellow for more than 200 miles.

In the case of Bob running on the Ring. He was turning 27:3x in a new car and he is still turning 27:3x in a car that now has 6000 miles on it even gets a 27:2x sometimes. I drove the car myself a few laps when it was around 5000 miles and it drove just fine. Of course that is just one car and it is possible that it actually handles better now than it did at 0 miles.

Consider that the rigidity will have the biggest effect in corners then consider how many corners there are on Nurburgring 24hr layout, then 3 laps of that. Even the slightest issue with the handling of the car should result in several seconds lost over the course of the race but there has been no indication of that so far.

Heh I see your point loud and clear and very much do agree on quite everything you are saying...

I was thinking this whole thing today and the way I figure is that it really depends on so many things how much the rigidity even effects the car that it is quite impossible to be really certain about this matter...

All I can say that it would feel stupid to have this rigidity deterioration light in the first place if it didn't matter anything...

 

[Griffith500]

Yes, I have. I tuned a Nascar to peak performance on Motegi Speedway, tweaking everything on it to get the best possible laps. I ran it up to a bit over 600 miles which is well past the point where the indicator turns yellow. I then bought a new one and put the same tune on it and drove both cars there. The cars felt 100% the same. My best lap was identical in both cars. and all laps driven were very close to the same. There was no difference in feel in them.

Well if players don't feel a difference, it's doubtful Bob will. But that's the point of B-Spec'ing your cars into the ground, I guess

 

[crowhop]

No, I think the indicator just comes on sooner than it should in GT6. In previous GT versions you could not do a restore on the rigidity until it needed it and it was always at a much higher mileage than the point that it comes on now. At what point it starts to have an effect I can't say. I can say that it does not have an effect at the low mileage where it first becomes yellow. I have saw a few people who say it does and that they are slower but after testing it myself in a case where I can consistently turn the same lap times over and over again there was absolutely no difference between a car with 0 miles and one that had been yellow for more than 200 miles.

In the case of Bob running on the Ring. He was turning 27:3x in a new car and he is still turning 27:3x in a car that now has 6000 miles on it even gets a 27:2x sometimes. I drove the car myself a few laps when it was around 5000 miles and it drove just fine. Of course that is just one car and it is possible that it actually handles better now than it did at 0 miles.

Consider that the rigidity will have the biggest effect in corners then consider how many corners there are on Nurburgring 24hr layout, then 3 laps of that. Even the slightest issue with the handling of the car should result in several seconds lost over the course of the race but there has been no indication of that so far.

In earlier versions of this game, prior to the Senna content for sure, there were clear issues where the deterioration was detrimental to handling. As soon as the indicator came on that car was more or less shot. Even restoring it didn't bring it back fully. But they've changed that in an update and now I agree with you, there is no difference at all.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

In earlier versions of this game, prior to the Senna content for sure, there were clear issues where the deterioration was detrimental to handling. As soon as the indicator came on that car was more or less shot. Even restoring it didn't bring it back fully. But they've changed that in an update and now I agree with you, there is no difference at all.

I tested the Nascar well before the Senna content was released and saw no differences

 

[crowhop]

I tested the Nascar well before the Senna content was released and saw no differences

I noticed some extreme differences in two cars (PDI Ford GT racer and the Citroen GT) after they went over 300 miles in the January/February 2014 version of the game. There was a thread on the perceived issue at the time. The cars were near undriveable for me. No idea when it was changed/updated, but that no longer happens, for sure.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Perhaps there were noticeable differences in some cars, perhaps related to the way it is tuned or.. I do know that the Nascar I tested with 600 miles felt exactly the same as the one with 0 and that both turned the same lap times lap after lap. I don't remember for sure when I did the testing but it was before any of the red bull events were added so it may very well have been on 1.02 in December if not then early January. I remember the time frame because I was running the Motegi Nascar event as it was the fastest way to earn credits before the RB JR was added.

Those threads on the perceived issue were one of the things that prompted me to test it back then in addition to the threads where people were complaining about the cost and frequency of this needing to be done.

I'm getting ready to let Bob take out the xBow again currently has 6,335.4 miles on it. Indicator has gone from yellow to amber but last race he ran was still able to get under 27:30 so no sign of an issue with the car handling as of yet.

 

[smitty33]

No, I think the indicator just comes on sooner than it should in GT6. In previous GT versions you could not do a restore on the rigidity until it needed it and it was always at a much higher mileage than the point that it comes on now. At what point it starts to have an effect I can't say. I can say that it does not have an effect at the low mileage where it first becomes yellow. I have saw a few people who say it does and that they are slower but after testing it myself in a case where I can consistently turn the same lap times over and over again there was absolutely no difference between a car with 0 miles and one that had been yellow for more than 200 miles.

In the case of Bob running on the Ring. He was turning 27:3x in a new car and he is still turning 27:3x in a car that now has 6000 miles on it even gets a 27:2x sometimes. I drove the car myself a few laps when it was around 5000 miles and it drove just fine. Of course that is just one car and it is possible that it actually handles better now than it did at 0 miles.

Consider that the rigidity will have the biggest effect in corners then consider how many corners there are on Nurburgring 24hr layout, then 3 laps of that. Even the slightest issue with the handling of the car should result in several seconds lost over the course of the race but there has been no indication of that so far.

Since B spec became available I have run a 15th ANN Huayra round Like the Wind 3- 1027 times so far. In that time its winning time has dropped from 4..07 to 4.15, and it has never lost. I have not restored the chassis, or overhauled the engine, nor do I intend to until it fails to win.