Build Quality

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JohnBM01

JohnBM01

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JMarine25
Often times, you'll see the term "build quality" with automobiles. If a car isn't built up very well, it's going to have a weak chassis, little reliability, and such. So this topic is on build quality. Tell us about what diffrentiates between a car with good build quality, versus one that has rather substandard build quality. What makes build quality special about a car? How about build quality, GTPlanet? Let 'er rip!
 
I'm sorry to say this in a Forum attended mainly by Americans, but the Mercs and BMW's that are built in the US (ML-Class, X5 and Z3) have all been slated in the European press for bad build and material quality compared to their Euro-built brothers and sisters. Why is this?
 
the term build quality needs to be clearly defined. is it the 2mm panel gaps in VW's shutlines or the subsstandard electrical components in the same car.

and yes the domestic (american) built euro cars have inferior "build integrity" compared to examples from the motherland. especially the mercedes ML class. that car nearly singlehandedly ruined mercedes reputation for quality.
 
It is not necessary to be defined as people's perspectives of 'build quality' vary. Generally what we're looking in a car is overall reliability and tolerance against time, nature and physics.

It is always good to check out if there are recalls or wide-known problems lurking in the internet forums, for example - the latest Mercedes C230's power window motors go dead if used excessively (from 2 mechanics), Lancer Evolution VIII's clutch burned out in average of 5000 miles (from EvoM - a pressure hose problem, but mitsubishi will say abuse), or US-spec 98-02 Honda Accord V6/Acura TL transmissions (recall on the Acura's only). These are by no means 100% true because after all, they're opinions before an actual recall, however as a general rule of thumb whenever there are more than 3 customers complaints of the same problem, notes should be well taken if you take any of these cars into consideration.
 
so you are saying the wide gaps in the saturns plastic panels are not a buld quality item. coz i say they are. a bit of a design item, but the plastic has to expand so the gap has to be increased slightly compared to a steel bodies car.

at the same time the integrity of mechanical parts and electrical parts are also a quality item.

as is the paint job, ask any mid eighties to early nineties chrysler owner.

and tire wear. ask anyone who bought an early 350Z.

and noise.

and so on and so on. one of the reasons why i dont put much stock in polls about cars is that to the average joe schomo to whom a car is just a tool, problems are a fault of the car, even when they are caused by poor maintenace.

for instance; remember the ford explorer/ firestone thing. mostly the fault of drivers caused by poor tire maintenace, also known as not checking your air pressure frequently. the tires were already underinflated from the factory to alleviate a rollover problem inherent in the design. and just like if you pump up a basketball and leave it in the garage for a few months the air will seep out, same thing applies to tires. and who got blamed? firestone (by ford) and ford by the families of those affected. yet the crux of the matter was that most people simply do not check thier air pressure once a month.

not a quality problem as you can see, but perceived as so by some. same thing with the oil sludging problems we have been hearing about in the last few years, first toyota, and now more recently vw and chrylser; people not changing thier oil saying its the car makers fault and placing that seed of doubt about quality in the minds of those who dont know all the details.
 
I define poor build quality as: -
Rattles while driving.
Mechanical mechanisms (manual seat adjustment etc) failing.
Electric system failure (windows, seat adjustment)
Interior trim falling off (*cough* Citroen C3 *splutter*)
Exterior paint flaking.

Things like ride noise and poor ride are all design failures rather than build quality.
 
ExigeExcel
I define poor build quality as: -
Rattles while driving.
Mechanical mechanisms (manual seat adjustment etc) failing.
Electric system failure (windows, seat adjustment)
Interior trim falling off (*cough* Citroen C3 *splutter*)
Exterior paint flaking.

Things like ride noise and poor ride are all design failures rather than build quality.
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My Mom's '93 accord:
Loud grinding noises at 2500rpm range
Electric System Failure - radio doesn't work, antenna doesn't work, some of the notice lights are always on when they shouldn't be (high beam light for example). Front left window doesn't always open/close properly
Interior trim actually is falling off in places
Exterior paint is flaking near the rear tire wells
water leaks into the car under heavy rain conditions and when in the car wash

Does that define poor build quality or merely just the fact that the car is old? We take relatively good care of the thing and yet it's still degraded pretty quickly over the past 3 years we've had it.
 
I mainly see it as when you have problems within the first year, or more sometimes. Not so much when teh car is older. Normally if a car lasts 10 years and is still in great quality it means it has either been cared for very well, or the original build quality was amazing.
 
Ok, my parents have a Mazda 323F (Lantis) and no matter how hard we try,
we just can't break it.

And we tried alot.

neanderthal
especially the mercedes ML class. that car nearly singlehandedly ruined mercedes reputation for quality.
Click to expand...

Don't blame the ML. The ML is a car close to my heart. Blame the engineering.
 
emad
My Mom's '93 accord:
Loud grinding noises at 2500rpm range
Electric System Failure - radio doesn't work, antenna doesn't work, some of the notice lights are always on when they shouldn't be (high beam light for example). Front left window doesn't always open/close properly
Interior trim actually is falling off in places
Exterior paint is flaking near the rear tire wells
water leaks into the car under heavy rain conditions and when in the car wash

Does that define poor build quality or merely just the fact that the car is old? We take relatively good care of the thing and yet it's still degraded pretty quickly over the past 3 years we've had it.
Click to expand...

Its more than 10 years old.....
:guilty:

Some sprucing up and repair work will make it like new.
 
ExigeExcel
I define poor build quality as: -
Rattles while driving.
Mechanical mechanisms (manual seat adjustment etc) failing.
Electric system failure (windows, seat adjustment)
Interior trim falling off (*cough* Citroen C3 *splutter*)
Exterior paint flaking.

Things like ride noise and poor ride are all design failures rather than build quality.
Click to expand...

pretty much everything you listed could also be due to design. its not unusual for a company to make a car and then have the beancounters come in and say $500 needs to be reduced from the car, and then inferior quality items are substituted in place of the original designs. in fact, its quite common.

* rattles. possible from taking out a spring washer
* mechanical systems. use of a cheaper spring from a material that is has less ductile strength. eg use of wire metal instead of spring metal. removal of a necessary widget to cut costs. etc
* electrical system failure. poor design? cheaper part? poor soldering? poor air quality in plant of manufacture (watch disclore on DVD and youll see what im talking about) using a more common part for cost benefit purposes? it could be anything.
* interior trim falling off. in my mercedes the door panel design was changed mid cycle and the door panel was no longer held on by screws, but by clips attached to he back of the panel. probably saved a little money, or time in the assembly plant which adds up when you're building a hundred thousand cars a year. but the end result is that my door panel can only be removed "x" times before a clip inevitably breaks. then i have to replace the whole door panel. whereas before it woulda meant buying a screw.


* Exterior paint flaking. this is definitely a quality issue. no OE paint shop should not invest in the tools and processes required to have a good paint job for ten years.
 
ultrabeat
Don't blame the ML. The ML is a car close to my heart. Blame the engineering.
Click to expand...

regardless of how close to your heart the car is it has almost singlehandedly ruined mercedes prior reputation for quality. some of it might be engineering. some of it might be design. some of it might be manufacturing. some of it might be quality control.

but for all that to be encapsulated in one vehicle menas the problem is not just in any one of those categories. in this case the combination has resulted in a ****ty car. period. regardless of what the origin of the mutlitude of problems was.
 
What would you say about the latest Ford F-150 or the latest Superduty? What would you say about their build quality, even with that "Quiet Steel?"
 
im not really into trucks so i dont know too much about em. this much i can tell you though; i hate ford. period.

id buy (in order) silverado, titan, ram, tundra and so on before i bought a ford. i rather like the engineering of the new trailer command feature though. that was smart. although id say its an extension of GMs engineering that went into the silverado.

my ideal truck would be the cummins engine on a silverado chassis with fords trailer command, built by toyota using nissans interior and features.
 
neanderthal
pretty much everything you listed could also be due to design. its not unusual for a company to make a car and then have the beancounters come in and say $500 needs to be reduced from the car, and then inferior quality items are substituted in place of the original designs. in fact, its quite common.
Click to expand...

That's just double-speak for 'poor build quality.'
 
thats exactly what im saying. there is no hard and fast definition for "poor build quality." anything, be it a design, manufacturing or engineering problem is very easily lumped into poor build quality. and all of them can result in poor build quality.

i would prefer to think of them as problems within those specific categories rather than lump them in a large generic grouping like that. then we could say manufacturer "x" has good design, but poor manufacturing, resulting in PBQ. etc etc.

i liken it to going to a doctor and pinpointing exactly where you think you are hurting, as opposed to going in and saying "it hurts, make it stop." people are very very general when it cars to car complaints, but quick to call one a piece of **** for thier poor direction as to what the problem is.

eg. customer "my car is making a loud grinding noise from the back. it happens all the time, it started when i came and changed the tires here last week. im not very happy that i came here to investigate why my car was vibrating and you said i had to change tires. that cost over $500, and now i have this loud griding noise. i dont know what you did, but you better fix it"
technician: well, you wouldnt have had to change your tires if you had simply rotated your tires as outlined in the owners manual. as for the loud grinding noise, did you disengage your emergency brake?
customer "the what"
technician; "the handbrake, did you disengage it?"
customer "i dont use the handbrake"
technician "we do. whenever we work on a car we engage it when we park the car."

ive seen this happen. ive even had to show people where their handbrake release was.


vibration caused by irregular tire wear from not rotating the tires can be classified as poor build quality by customer (who is the person filling out the JDPower survey) who doenst know the first thing about auto maintenance
so can rapid tire wear (caused by driving habits[ fast vs slow] and patterns[city streets vs freeways.] very rarely (early NSX and 350Z) are they an aggressive camber problem.)
and the loud grinding noises.

yet in this case, none of them are quality issues at all.
 
I know I normally make off-topic points, but none more saddening than your soon departure, M5Power. Anyhow, take care after then.

How can build quality be improved?
 

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