Buttkicker Simulation Kit

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CobraCommandrew
Buttkicker arrived yesterday and I began the mounting effort. Check out my progress so far. It was much slower going than I had anticipated so I didn't get nearly as far as I had hoped last night.

So far, all of this has been accomplished using basic tools (a hacksaw, file, normal power drill, and a couple of wrenches). Nothing fancy required. :D

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/album.php?albumid=2290
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Thanks a lot! This would be the first I've seen the BK mounted to the frame without the seat. I will be following this :)
 
Im not sure if you have tried it yet but it looks like the seat doesnt have room for it to sag as it does when you sit in the seat.
 
I did check for that before going ahead with my design, although I didn't use any exact science to do so. I had my wife sit in the seat and then checked to see how far it sagged. It doesn't even come close to dropping below the top of the frame. I do weigh more than she does so it is certainly still a possibility. If it turns out that it hits, I'll just add some kind of spacer to drop the plate down another half-inch or so. Of course, then I'd need longer bolts...so here's to hoping that it doesn't hit.

Currently waiting for the paint to dry so that I can proceed with assembly and find out...
 
CobraCommandrew
I did check for that before going ahead with my design, although I didn't use any exact science to do so. I had my wife sit in the seat and then checked to see how far it sagged. It doesn't even come close to dropping below the top of the frame. I do weigh more than she does so it is certainly still a possibility. If it turns out that it hits, I'll just add some kind of spacer to drop the plate down another half-inch or so. Of course, then I'd need longer bolts...so here's to hoping that it doesn't hit.

Currently waiting for the paint to dry so that I can proceed with assembly and find out...
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Why didn't you sit and let and let wifey check or take a picture for you ?
 
Okay nice going so far with the d.i.y.

Im curious why you didnt cover the full square area, rather than just the back half? What you have should be fine but I'd of went with the BK mounted directly in the centre of a full square piece metal/wood as it would help give a more even spread to the sides/front/back. Like Ive said before though, test what you have and if not happy modify and reposition.

If you have unwanted vibrations from the seat tensioners (underneath springs) perhaps touching the metal plate due to body weight. Then a simple layer of rubber/sponge type material to prevent metal on metal noise could prevent this.

Of course you could try a magazine slid in between as a test/solution if this happens as what you want is to isolate unwanted vibration/noises but still get the sensation of the tactile. Do you plan rubber isolators for the mounting points to the chair?

When your at this stage give having the BK a go set to your pedals :)
 
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Mr Latte
GT5 does use the surrounds with the other cars and its a nice feeling if brief as you pass. It also uses the back surround almost like a constant centre channel in your back, so I tend to run my back surround at much lower volume.

Shift 2 doesnt really do this but does use the surrounds in other ways and also has much better off track tactile.
Dirt 3 uses the surrounds really well with ambience and engine noise. However wait to you have a Metro 6R4 on your tailpipe or alongside you and then again having tactile on the surrounds is great. dirt 3 is really good with the tactile for me anyways.

JS - you may as well try side and back surrounds but as per usual it may need tuning for getting agood balance in the volumes for different games.
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After I reconnected back to my Sony receiver I played with the soundfields again and found a Dolby PLII soundfield that utilizes both left and right channels and mixes in the Center. Just a little more kick to the Clark's at this point.
 
Mr Latte
Im curious why you didnt cover the full square area, rather than just the back half? What you have should be fine but I'd of went with the BK mounted directly in the centre of a full square piece metal/wood as it would help give a more even spread to the sides/front/back. Like Ive said before though, test what you have and if not happy modify and reposition.
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Mostly due to not being able to find metal plates in that size. Given that the plate turned out to be somewhat of a flop, I probably would have been better off with a square piece of board as you originally suggested. :banghead:

Mr Latte
Do you plan rubber isolators for the mounting points to the chair?
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No, I decided that I wouldn't isolate the seat from the rest of the rig. I did, however, set the entire rig up on isolators briefly and it did have a positive impact. More noticeable than the buttkicker was how much of the FFB from the wheel could be felt throughout the rig once it was up on isolators.
 
Finished up the refactor. Turned out nicely, I think.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/album.php?albumid=2290

picture.php
 
Well, so far I can't say that I'm super thrilled with how it performs in GT5. I don't think this is the fault of the buttkicker, though, as I experimented with it while playing Dead Nation and it was awesome. I actually had to turn the volume on the amp down significantly as the rumble was too violent on the same setting that I had been using for GT5.

The problem I'm having with GT is that I can't seem to find a balance where I can feel the more subtle things like rumble strips and off-road surfaces while simultaneously not blowing up the buttkicker when I collide with a barrier or another car (I'm getting an awful popping noise in these instances, kind of the way a blown-out speaker sounds).

After playing Dead Nation and seeing what the buttkicker could really feel like (not to mention at lower volume), I thought maybe the problem was the in-game volume level. Today, I tried cranking GT's in-game volume all the way to 120 so that I can keep the amp at a lower volume while still achieving the same level of feedback. This was a minor improvement, but it still sounds like the buttkicker is bottoming out whenever I collide with anything. If I turn the amp volume down to the point where I no longer get that popping noise during collisions, I lose nearly all other feedback from the game. I no longer feel rumble strips and the feedback from engine noise cuts out at very low rpm. Not a very immersive experience at all.

I have tried playing with the low and high-frequency cutoffs on the amp, and nothing seems to make any difference. The problem is always the same; when I find a level that eliminates the popping during collisions, I lose all of the other subtleties.

I currently have the buttkicker running from my tv's rca audio out (combined into a single rca which runs to the buttkicker amp). I have also tried running it from my receiver's LFE channel but I got the same popping and felt the range of response that I was getting was actually worse. Additionally, running off the LFE channel is annoying because in this configuration the buttkicker is affected by volume adjustments on the receiver. I wouldn't be able to play at lower audible volume and still get the same tactile response.

Anyway, if anyone has any tips on how I can configure this thing to my liking, I'd be very grateful. I've given up for the moment. :indiff:
 
Well first off gt5 isnt the greatest for buttkickers. With that said try in gt5 115 volume small theater. Off the amp I use the sub and center combined (works good in all games ive tried). The bottoming out in collisions is just gonna happen with gt5 if you want to feel other things. Try it with music and movies also. 👍
 
CobraCommandrew
Well, so far I can't say that I'm super thrilled with how it performs in GT5. I don't think this is the fault of the buttkicker, though, as I experimented with it while playing Dead Nation and it was awesome. I actually had to turn the volume on the amp down significantly as the rumble was too violent on the same setting that I had been using for GT5.

The problem I'm having with GT is that I can't seem to find a balance where I can feel the more subtle things like rumble strips and off-road surfaces while simultaneously not blowing up the buttkicker when I collide with a barrier or another car (I'm getting an awful popping noise in these instances, kind of the way a blown-out speaker sounds).

After playing Dead Nation and seeing what the buttkicker could really feel like (not to mention at lower volume), I thought maybe the problem was the in-game volume level. Today, I tried cranking GT's in-game volume all the way to 120 so that I can keep the amp at a lower volume while still achieving the same level of feedback. This was a minor improvement, but it still sounds like the buttkicker is bottoming out whenever I collide with anything. If I turn the amp volume down to the point where I no longer get that popping noise during collisions, I lose nearly all other feedback from the game. I no longer feel rumble strips and the feedback from engine noise cuts out at very low rpm. Not a very immersive experience at all.

I have tried playing with the low and high-frequency cutoffs on the amp, and nothing seems to make any difference. The problem is always the same; when I find a level that eliminates the popping during collisions, I lose all of the other subtleties.

I currently have the buttkicker running from my tv's rca audio out (combined into a single rca which runs to the buttkicker amp). I have also tried running it from my receiver's LFE channel but I got the same popping and felt the range of response that I was getting was actually worse. Additionally, running off the LFE channel is annoying because in this configuration the buttkicker is affected by volume adjustments on the receiver. I wouldn't be able to play at lower audible volume and still get the same tactile response.

Anyway, if anyone has any tips on how I can configure this thing to my liking, I'd be very grateful. I've given up for the moment. :indiff:
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Hmm well that kind of stinks. I imagine it would be cool in battlefield/ call of duty.
 
fatkrakr
Well first off gt5 isnt the greatest for buttkickers. With that said try in gt5 115 volume small theater.
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Thanks, I'll give this a try.

fatkrakr
The bottoming out in collisions is just gonna happen with gt5 if you want to feel other things.
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Sounds like this is normal, then? If so, then I suppose I can live with it. I just figured my configuration wasn't dialed in properly. I'm a bit concerned that it could damage the buttkicker over time, though.

Thanks again for the tips.
 
CobraCommandrew
Well, so far I can't say that I'm super thrilled with how it performs in GT5. I don't think this is the fault of the buttkicker, though, as I experimented with it while playing Dead Nation and it was awesome. I actually had to turn the volume on the amp down significantly as the rumble was too violent on the same setting that I had been using for GT5.
Click to expand...

Common issue of different games having very different usage of their audio and the level of dynamics they output. Tweeking is always needed Im afraid.



CobraCommandrew
The problem I'm having with GT is that I can't seem to find a balance where I can feel the more subtle things like rumble strips and off-road surfaces while simultaneously not blowing up the buttkicker when I collide with a barrier or another car (I'm getting an awful popping noise in these instances, kind of the way a blown-out speaker sounds).
Click to expand...

This is again another issue and limation of the game that it doesnt allow independant volume levels for different things. Some games give more control over ambient noises/engines etc. I would however recommend you use the smallest "Room" setting for best LFE/Bass performance.



CobraCommandrew
After playing Dead Nation and seeing what the buttkicker could really feel like (not to mention at lower volume), I thought maybe the problem was the in-game volume level. Today, I tried cranking GT's in-game volume all the way to 120 so that I can keep the amp at a lower volume while still achieving the same level of feedback. This was a minor improvement, but it still sounds like the buttkicker is bottoming out whenever I collide with anything. If I turn the amp volume down to the point where I no longer get that popping noise during collisions, I lose nearly all other feedback from the game. I no longer feel rumble strips and the feedback from engine noise cuts out at very low rpm. Not a very immersive experience at all.
Click to expand...

On my own setup I find GT5's performance is greatly effected depending on what car you use. So try the SLR and GTR for testing. Ive told people on here a solution to help overcome not just the limations of GT5 audio/tactile but also for tweaking games that sound very different. I feel like Im going around in circles here. However to give you more personal control in how your Buttkicker reacts in games you should consider a "Graphic Equaliser", preferrably one with more sliders/control as possible. It will allow you to boost and cut various frequencies which depending on the game will allow you to increase/decrease (to an extent) how particular sounds effect the Buttkicker. I use models with 31 bands of varying frequencies and these are quite affordable on ebay. Some typical consumer units will not have as much control and will only start with freqencies of around 60Hz but the Behringer models I use start with having control as low as 20Hz. You may think arrrgh EQ's this aint the 80's early 90's but they will if you get a decent model give you better results and more options with your tactile. It will help eliminate the problems your having with big bangs shaking your seat and more sublte tones like kerbs/engines being more pronounced.

Engines sounds in GT5 regarding tactile tend to be lively upto about 4K. going higher the bass response drops from the audible sound. In audio terms the vast majority of "engine rev" sounds in the game focus on using around 400Hz - 2Khz. Although low engine grunt/rumble and various cars will utilise frequency bands of 20 - 315Hz differently depending on the cars.

So having independant control of different frequency ranges using a "Graphic Equaliser" allows you to monitor what frequencies the games effects are using and then increase/decrease the volume for those.

4L7Hl.jpg

Typical example



CobraCommandrew
I have tried playing with the low and high-frequency cutoffs on the amp, and nothing seems to make any difference. The problem is always the same; when I find a level that eliminates the popping during collisions, I lose all of the other subtleties.
Click to expand...

Exactly why a "Graphic Equaliser" can be useful as the cut/off is very limited.
It's also one of the limations of using a single Buttkicker and their inability to use stereo inputs. So one device is trying to do everything from a source that mixes everything into a mono signal.



CobraCommandrew
I currently have the buttkicker running from my tv's rca audio out (combined into a single rca which runs to the buttkicker amp). I have also tried running it from my receiver's LFE channel but I got the same popping and felt the range of response that I was getting was actually worse. Additionally, running off the LFE channel is annoying because in this configuration the buttkicker is affected by volume adjustments on the receiver. I wouldn't be able to play at lower audible volume and still get the same tactile response.
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Yes LFE can give less response than the L/R but it should give better performance on the low level feedback effects. You can however have control of this on most AV Recievers, not only by having an independant (DB) volume setting from other speakers but also the Frequency Cut Off (eg. 100 Hz) Therefore only signals below 100 will be outputed to the LFE. Check your manual for your model.
 
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I must chime in here. Since my addition of a 2nd BK2, the performance is much better while playing GT5.
 
Thanks, Latte, for the detailed response. I hate to make you repeat yourself. :guilty: I will give serious consideration to what you've suggested. My fear is that I'll sink another $80-100 into this setup and still won't be really satisfied with it.

I noticed yesterday that I do have a handful of controls on my tv for adjusting volume at various frequencies. I'm going to play around with these a bit and maybe, just maybe, I can find something that works.

Thanks again. 👍
 
No probs, I dont mind repeating myself just Im sure others might think (there he goes again about EQ's). I say go for one and if you want help selecting PM me but should be loads on ebay. I still recommend the Behringer 3102 but if interested ensure you get the FBQ models as they have indicator lights which illuminate as each frequency is detected. This way you can easily determine what sounds in the games utilise what frequencies.

Oh and well done VINCE!
 
CobraCommandrew
Well, so far I can't say that I'm super thrilled with how it performs in GT5. I don't think this is the fault of the buttkicker, though, as I experimented with it while playing Dead Nation and it was awesome. I actually had to turn the volume on the amp down significantly as the rumble was too violent on the same setting that I had been using for GT5.

The problem I'm having with GT is that I can't seem to find a balance where I can feel the more subtle things like rumble strips and off-road surfaces while simultaneously not blowing up the buttkicker when I collide with a barrier or another car (I'm getting an awful popping noise in these instances, kind of the way a blown-out speaker sounds).

After playing Dead Nation and seeing what the buttkicker could really feel like (not to mention at lower volume), I thought maybe the problem was the in-game volume level. Today, I tried cranking GT's in-game volume all the way to 120 so that I can keep the amp at a lower volume while still achieving the same level of feedback. This was a minor improvement, but it still sounds like the buttkicker is bottoming out whenever I collide with anything. If I turn the amp volume down to the point where I no longer get that popping noise during collisions, I lose nearly all other feedback from the game. I no longer feel rumble strips and the feedback from engine noise cuts out at very low rpm. Not a very immersive experience at all.

I have tried playing with the low and high-frequency cutoffs on the amp, and nothing seems to make any difference. The problem is always the same; when I find a level that eliminates the popping during collisions, I lose all of the other subtleties.

I currently have the buttkicker running from my tv's rca audio out (combined into a single rca which runs to the buttkicker amp). I have also tried running it from my receiver's LFE channel but I got the same popping and felt the range of response that I was getting was actually worse. Additionally, running off the LFE channel is annoying because in this configuration the buttkicker is affected by volume adjustments on the receiver. I wouldn't be able to play at lower audible volume and still get the same tactile response.

Anyway, if anyone has any tips on how I can configure this thing to my liking, I'd be very grateful. I've given up for the moment. :indiff:
Click to expand...

You have the same issue that everyone faces when connecting a BK. A few things that I would like to add. First I would reconnect to your A/V receiver and run off the LFE channel. As previously mentioned adjust the volume in GT5 (Sound Effects) to 110 or 115 and try turning off the in game music at first. On the BK amp try turning down your gain to around 0db (not real familiar with BK2 amp). I had the same issue as you with hitting walls and other cars where the transducer would just flat bottom out. What receiver do you use? On the receiver try adjusting the gain on the LFE channel to a -db setting. This was the main adjustment that kept my BK from bottoming out. Your volume level is also key but once you get it dialed in you will be extremely happy.👍

Try this to help you in your adjustments as well
 
Guys, does anyone know if there is a ButtKicker supplier in Europe? the cost of delivery from US to Cyprus is $110 and that makes the price of ButtKicker Simulation Kit (BK-SK) EUR 210 + Taxes :(
 
Mr Latte
Try "The Shaker Centre"

They are based in UK and ship worldwide.
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God bless you, Sir! 👍 :)

Edit: They are out of stock as well as every one else who sells Buttkickers.

Steve,

Buttkicker is a device that you attach to your rig or your chair and it vibrates based on the sounds that come out of your console or PC. Generally enhances the feeling you can get from a game or movie.
 
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