Buying a shifter, is it worth it?

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misterdog7
I've got this itch to buy the shifter set for my CSR and 911 wheel, but i wanted to ask you guys first if it is worth getting it when you already have a paddle shifter on the wheel itself?

Do you find it added value, and if you do prefer the shifter do you use the H pattern or the sequential one?
 
mister dog
I've got this itch to buy the shifter set for my CSR and 911 wheel, but i wanted to ask you guys first if it is worth getting it when you already have a paddle shifter on the wheel itself?

Do you find it added value, and if you do prefer the shifter do you use the H pattern or the sequential one?
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Depends on how much you rotate the wheel, I always prefer paddles (I have a G25) but the side-shifter was essential sometimes. In some cars my "rhythm" for the track ended up including both :)
 
I ended up buying a TH8RS for my t500,even though I knew the clutch support in GT6 is wack. I tried it H-pattern a few times,ehh. So I switched it to sequential mode and I love it,can't go back to paddles now.
 
Personally, I enjoy paddle shifters far more than a traditional gear box and think they're easier to use and faster overall.

But to the point... each to his (or her) own. If you want one, and if you have the money, then it's just a matter of choice, no?
 
In about 6 years owning the G25 I never really got into H shifting (didn't like the feel) but I used it in sequential mode pretty much constantly. I probably didn't push a paddle on the wheel for years.

I had the Porsche sequential shifter set attached to my GT2 wheel for 2 years, but the click feel was never all that nice. I did spend a while with the Porsche H shifter and it was better but still very plastic, I tended just to stick with paddles.

Now I've moved from G25 to T300 for PC rig I am going to purchase the TH8A when it finally becomes available in this country. At the very least it'll make an awesome handbrake for rally sims (it even has an analogue handbrake mode). I'll definitely use it for sequential shifting. I'll also give it a go for H shifting, but the results will depend on how comfortable it is. Either way it's going to be a lot of fun to eventually own :)
 
it all depends on what you want to do...if you are mostly racing and care mostly for outright speed and laptimes, paddles are the best because they are far easier to drive with and allow you to be much faster.

if you care more about driving pleasure and realism, then i would get an h-shifter because its much more fun. even if GT6 is not as good as it should be in regards to how the clutch and shifting behaves, its still very enjoyable if you get used to it. you have to shift a little slower than you could from 1st to 2nd especially and be sure to always depress the clutch fully as you shift. it is however not like the clutch was digital as some people complain, because you can surely let the clutch slip when you take off for example, but in order to succesfully get into a gear the clutch needs to be fully down.

i'm mostly drifting and i enjoy doing that with my h-shifter. its even more enjoyable if you also play pc-sims like assetto corsa. with three pedals and an h-shifter i've been able to make real use of the different techniques that keiichi tsuchiya teaches in the drift bible in assetto corsa. sadly in GT6 it does not seem to be really possible to do things like the clutch kick and even more so the shift lock technique because its not that sensitive towards them. you also don't need to really heel and toe downshift in GT6, but i always do it just for the fun.
 
mister dog
I've got this itch to buy the shifter set for my CSR and 911 wheel, but i wanted to ask you guys first if it is worth getting it when you already have a paddle shifter on the wheel itself?

Do you find it added value, and if you do prefer the shifter do you use the H pattern or the sequential one?
Click to expand...

I use the Fanatec ClubSport Shifter SQ in my rig and love it. Having a good solid shifter hard mounted makes all the difference. Having the ability to switch from H to SQ on the fly is very nice.
 
mister dog
I've got this itch to buy the shifter set for my CSR and 911 wheel, but i wanted to ask you guys first if it is worth getting it when you already have a paddle shifter on the wheel itself?

Do you find it added value, and if you do prefer the shifter do you use the H pattern or the sequential one?
Click to expand...

Is it worth it of course depends on your expectations.
The clutch in GT5/GT6 has been less than-well-implemented to put it politely. :sly:
If you intend to mostly use it for GT6, learning how to use it will take patience. :banghead: :crazy: :banghead:

PC-run sims like AC, pCARS, iRacing, rFactor-based, etc. have better implemented clutch. 👍

Main reasons I use H-shifter in GT6 are to make offline & A-spec. seasonals more challenging.
And to keep my heel-toe brain-mapping from going stale in-between doing it IRL.

H-shifter will always be at a dis-advantage against paddle shifters. Reasons for that are:
Takes longer to shift, setup into the corners is trickier, & no auto rev-matching on down shifts.

That is where learning how to heel-to comes into effect to match revs while braking.
GT6 will let you ram gears down without matching revs, but IRL it would not be pretty.

Sequential on stick is great for immersion instead of paddles...
...many IRL sequentials are stick, not paddle. Ex; GT500/SuperGT/DTM cars, etc.

Fanatec CSS with on-the fly H/Seq., is nice feature, TH8 shifters aren't on-the-fly changeable.
 
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I have a DSD Pro Sequential shifter on my rig, I can't stress enough how satisfying it is using it. I still use paddles on race cars that have paddles in real life but I actually prefer to use the shifter.

Adds to the immersion no end, especially as it is very solid and has a realistic movement so it feels like you are banging through the gears with a real gear box.

Couple that with Simvibe giving vibrations through the seat as you select another gear and it's bloody fantastic.

For immersion I highly recommend a separate shifter
 
Well there's the thing. In GT there is no real clutch. Traditional foot pedal clutches in modern automobiles are analog, not digital. So in GT, it's about the "drama" of using a traditional shifter, rather than practical. In real life one can feather one's clutch (regardless of associated wear). In this game though, the clutch is an afterthought and a bit of a joke in terms of its true purpose and action, so it becomes a matter of show instead of an accurate representation and simulation. Personally, I don't see show as all that important.
 
My opinion parrots others. GT6's clutch implementation sucks, a lot. 2-3 shifts out of 10 will miss. And that is before throwing in the anxiety of racing in aa crowd.
For iRacing though, it is so nice using the h gate shifter and clutch. Heel toeing the spec Miata is great.
Really though, it comes down to you and your opinion. Its all about what you like. Whether its rowing the gears, slamming the stick or slapping the paddles, its all on your taste.
 
For me an unqualified yes, and just from this past week. The clutch in GT sucked so bad I never used it in GT and heel and toe is just for show as well, because it doesn't matter if you match revs or not it doesn't affect the balance of the car, no engine or transmission damage etc. I signed up for a race in AC with the Cobra at Blackwood this week and said to myself, "What the hell, I'm going to practice some heel and toe and see what happens". Took me about an hour to start to get comfortable with it and then I was hooked:bowdown:. The next night I pulled out the Lotus 49 and ran some laps around Mosport and it was just crazy how challenging and rewarding it is to move your feet around just like Jackie Stewart or Jimmy Clark or Ayrton Senna did. I thought I would be much slower but that wasn't the case either because you get into a real rythmn and tend to be more careful about when and where you brake and when you transition your left foot from clutch to brake and vice versa. The other cool thing about AC is that it simulates engine braking, so if you downshift and let out the clutch too early, you'll lock up the back wheels and spin. If you roll into a corner and don't downshift you lose the braking effect of the transmission and must brake a little harder to compensate. It's all very immersing.

Funny thing is I didn't practice with damage on and when race time came during my first missed shift the indicator popped up showing slight damage to the transmission:eek:. I had 34 laps to go and I missed a few more and shifted too early a couple of times but I managed to get it home in one piece and it was tremendously exciting all the way.

My plan is to drive cars with the same setup they would have been equipped with in real life. If it came with paddles like a modern car that's what I'll use. If it came with an unsynchronized transmission, then heel and toe all the way.

I can't recommend it enough. 👍👍
 
I'm never any faster with a H-pattern or even sequential compared to paddle shifters but I still like to use TH8A when I'm not trying to break lap records. It just adds a bit more immersion. As anyone that drives a manual shift car in real life knows, there just a strange bond you develop with the car when you shift the gears yourself and racing sims don't seem to be much different to me in that regard. I just feel like I have another level of control over the vehicle with a manual shift just like I do in real life.
 
Thanks for the advice gentlemen, i have the shifter set now and installed the H pattern one first. I wanna try and learn how to race with the clutch and the H pattern, and once i get that down i will use the sequential one afterwards.

First impressions; i suck! Been trying to do a couple of time trial laps and although i'm experienced in using a clutch and H pattern in a normal car, racing and taking corners with it is a different chapter all together...

Here's a couple of questions i have:

- Do you guys release the gas pedal when shifting (like you are supposed to do with a road car)? It makes you lose a lot of speed with each gearshift. I saw some youtube videos of people playing racing games with shifter+ clutch and they seem to just keep the gas pedal pressed fully down when they engage the clutch and shift gears, so i wonder if you all do the same and if this is realistic as IRL i suppose that's not beneficial for a car?

- Coming from a long straight in 6th and having to downshift for a third gear corner is damn hard to get right, in real life i have the habit of putting it in neutral when braking and shifting to the right gear when i got my speed down, but that's not the way it should be in racing as you have to downshift through all the gears properly right?

- Also any other general tips are welcome.

I suppose this is the hardest part and once you get used to it, it will be beneficial for your real life driving too so i really want to get this down before i go sequential. I also suppose no one uses the clutch pedal anymore when shifting sequentially no?

Thanks in advance :cheers:
 
mister dog
Thanks for the advice gentlemen, i have the shifter set now and installed the H pattern one first. I wanna try and learn how to race with the clutch and the H pattern, and once i get that down i will use the sequential one afterwards.

First impressions; i suck! Been trying to do a couple of time trial laps and although i'm experienced in using a clutch and H pattern in a normal car, racing and taking corners with it is a different chapter all together...

Here's a couple of questions i have:

- Do you guys release the gas pedal when shifting (like you are supposed to do with a road car)? It makes you lose a lot of speed with each gearshift. I saw some youtube videos of people playing racing games with shifter+ clutch and they seem to just keep the gas pedal pressed fully down when they engage the clutch and shift gears, so i wonder if you all do the same and if this is realistic as IRL i suppose that's not beneficial for a car?

For upshifts, yes, I do (for manual gearbox, in sequential I keep my foot buried while I bang up the gears) and in fact in games like Gran Turismo it is a requirement otherwise it won't go in to gear.

- Coming from a long straight in 6th and having to downshift for a third gear corner is damn hard to get right, in real life i have the habit of putting it in neutral when braking and shifting to the right gear when i got my speed down, but that's not the way it should be in racing as you have to downshift through all the gears properly right?

In racing (well actually you should do it in regular driving as well) you use the gears to help slow the car along with the brakes.

In regular driving when I'm coming up to an intersection I slow down by lifting the throttle and then shifting down the gears slowly before I even start to brake. By letting the clutch out gently you can slow the car nice and gently.

In racing, everything is happening a lot faster. You aren't coasting to a stop, you are stomping on the pedal. So when downshifting, you can't just let the clutch out slowly to reduce the drivetrain shock as you are braking too quickly, you can't just drop it down a gear and get off the clutch because the compression of the engine coupled with the change in gear ratio can lock up the tires, so you use a method called Heel-Toe.

In Heel-Toe, you are on the brakes with your right foot, clutch in with your left foot, change gear, then while disengaging the clutch you blip the throttle with the heel of your right foot while maintaining braking pressure with the toes, hence Heel-Toe. Sounds difficult, and takes a while to learn. Both my real car and my pedals are set in a way that I actually use the left and right sides of the same foot because my pedals have nice spacing.

You don't have to go through every gear. That would take too long, it would depend on the corner if you have to get through a couple of gears or if you can change straight to the gear you need. For instance an uphill corner will stop the car quicker than a downhill corner.

For sequential transmissions it becomes easier - that is if you are comfortable changing your braking foot to the left. This is called Left Foot Braking and it enables you to blip the throttle with your right foot while braking with your left, as you don't need the clutch pedal. The blipping of the throttle has the same purpose even without the clutch - if you don't bring up the engine revs before lower gear engages then you can lock the tires (or just upset the balance of the car).

A lot of race car drivers use this method but many still use the clutch and Heel-Toe instead as it may feel more natural to them or they feel it helps maintain the balance of the car.

- Also any other general tips are welcome.

I suppose this is the hardest part and once you get used to it, it will be beneficial for your real life driving too so i really want to get this down before i go sequential. I also suppose no one uses the clutch pedal anymore when shifting sequentially no?

See above answers about using clutch with sequentials.

Thanks in advance :cheers:
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Comments in bold.
 
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Punknoodle
Comments in bold.
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Thanks a lot, goes to show that I have a lot to learn still before I get this down like the pro's do ;)

I find that the distance between my brake and throttle pedals is a bit too large to heel- toe comfortably, do most have their pedals placed closer together in order to do that better? I'm sure I would strain a muscle if I'd practice it for a longer period the way it is now.
 
@mister dog

- Coming from a long straight in 6th and having to downshift for a third gear corner is damn hard to get right, in real life i have the habit of putting it in neutral when braking and shifting to the right gear when i got my speed down, but that's not the way it should be in racing as you have to downshift through all the gears properly right?
Click to expand...

Actually, you shouldn't do that in real life either. :)

Coasting. This term describes a vehicle travelling in neutral or with the clutch pressed down. It can reduce driver control because

  • engine braking is eliminated
  • vehicle speed downhill will increase quickly
  • increased use of the footbrake can reduce its effectiveness
  • steering response will be affected, particularly on bends and corners
  • it may be more difficult to select the appropriate gear when needed.
Click to expand...

(source: https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/control-of-the-vehicle-117-to-126)



Note: I can't provide any tips or information about clutch use with a simulator because I don't have one... :)
 
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Johnnypenso
For me an unqualified yes, and just from this past week. The clutch in GT sucked so bad I never used it in GT and heel and toe is just for show as well, because it doesn't matter if you match revs or not it doesn't affect the balance of the car, no engine or transmission damage etc. I signed up for a race in AC with the Cobra at Blackwood this week and said to myself, "What the hell, I'm going to practice some heel and toe and see what happens". Took me about an hour to start to get comfortable with it and then I was hooked:bowdown:. The next night I pulled out the Lotus 49 and ran some laps around Mosport and it was just crazy how challenging and rewarding it is to move your feet around just like Jackie Stewart or Jimmy Clark or Ayrton Senna did. I thought I would be much slower but that wasn't the case either because you get into a real rythmn and tend to be more careful about when and where you brake and when you transition your left foot from clutch to brake and vice versa. The other cool thing about AC is that it simulates engine braking, so if you downshift and let out the clutch too early, you'll lock up the back wheels and spin. If you roll into a corner and don't downshift you lose the braking effect of the transmission and must brake a little harder to compensate. It's all very immersing.

Funny thing is I didn't practice with damage on and when race time came during my first missed shift the indicator popped up showing slight damage to the transmission:eek:. I had 34 laps to go and I missed a few more and shifted too early a couple of times but I managed to get it home in one piece and it was tremendously exciting all the way.

My plan is to drive cars with the same setup they would have been equipped with in real life. If it came with paddles like a modern car that's what I'll use. If it came with an unsynchronized transmission, then heel and toe all the way.

I can't recommend it enough. 👍👍
Click to expand...

If you played Sega F355 Challenge with H shifter, you would have the same thing as in AC, except for the damage :p Imagine how fun it was over 10 years ago :D especially winning races on Pro ( no assist ).
You need to heel & toe on most manual cars IRL - if you are driving in rapid pace that is :lol: I always heel & toe even when driving normally on the street, keeps it from being rusty :sly: I love the noise :p
 
Ridox2JZGTE
If you played Sega F355 Challenge with H shifter, you would have the same thing as in AC, except for the damage :p Imagine how fun it was over 10 years ago :D especially winning races on Pro ( no assist ).
You need to heel & toe on most manual cars IRL - if you are driving in rapid pace that is :lol: I always heel & toe even when driving normally on the street, keeps it from being rusty :sly: I love the noise :p
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I've only had the H shifter for 2 years so I didn't get to enjoy F355 with it. Up until GT5 I had never driven with a wheel on my own game, just at my brother's once or twice and I don't remember what wheel it was either, but it had no H Shifter. The clutch in AC isn't quite realistic either, it grabs too quickly but I think they are working on it. With full damage on it's quite a challenge to finish a race without blowing up your transmission, I blow it up quite often in practice:sly:
 
Worth it? Try some laps with the cobra or mazda 787b in AC and then tell me it´s not worth it :D

It´s for fun and immersion and having things to do. Paddle shifting is of course the most efficient but boy so booring.

I am no big fan of advanced clutch simulation that is just bad for your blood pressure. LFS and AC is the only one that attempts anything here. RUF in AC is more frustrating then fun due to that gearbox :(. Would be absolutely okay if the auto clutch aid would actually work not make things worse :)
 
Johnnypenso
I've only had the H shifter for 2 years so I didn't get to enjoy F355 with it. Up until GT5 I had never driven with a wheel on my own game, just at my brother's once or twice and I don't remember what wheel it was either, but it had no H Shifter. The clutch in AC isn't quite realistic either, it grabs too quickly but I think they are working on it. With full damage on it's quite a challenge to finish a race without blowing up your transmission, I blow it up quite often in practice:sly:
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What I did in AC was in the option menu for the pedals I set the max clutch to about 75%. It has helped me to improve my shifts.
 
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mister dog
Don't you tend to go higher in revs when downshifting compared to just coasting to the traffic lights?
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Yes, but your throttle is still closed meaning no extra fuel is going in to the engine compared to idle, hence why it's slowing down the car using the compression of the engine. Saves using up your brake pads unnecessarily.
 
Just an FYI, I right foot brake and use the clutch for downshifts, but never heel n toe or blip the throttle during downshifts. I hear people say it will make you faster. Well that depends on your shifting habits. If you tend to down shift to early than heel n toe will probably be faster for you, but if you down shift at the proper time blipping the throttle isn't needed. It is used to keep the rear wheels from locking, but they will only lock up from downshifting too soon. So if you don't like heel toe or cant get the hang of it don't throw your shifter away, just work on the timing of your downshifts and you can forget about heel toe.
 
Punknoodle
Yes, but your throttle is still closed meaning no extra fuel is going in to the engine compared to idle, hence why it's slowing down the car using the compression of the engine. Saves using up your brake pads unnecessarily.
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fatkrakr
Just an FYI, I right foot brake and use the clutch for downshifts, but never heel n toe or blip the throttle during downshifts. I hear people say it will make you faster. Well that depends on your shifting habits. If you tend to down shift to early than heel n toe will probably be faster for you, but if you down shift at the proper time blipping the throttle isn't needed. It is used to keep the rear wheels from locking, but they will only lock up from downshifting too soon. So if you don't like heel toe or cant get the hang of it don't throw your shifter away, just work on the timing of your downshifts and you can forget about heel toe.
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Blipping the throttle allows you a larger downshift window. If you time it right though throttle blips are not needed. Iracing is the hardest sim to do this though, but that's because Iracing has an unneeded emphasis on throttle blipping. The MX5 is damn near impossible to downshift without it no matter what your speed or rpms are. It isn't modeled very well at all.
 
Shift down earlier more engine brake helps you stop the car also. Have to be careful not overdoing it of course. I don´t RFB so for me blipping the throttle to ease getting the gear in is a necessity with some cars or I will just not get the gear no matter how slow I go. Depend on car and sim AC has some finicky cars that´s for sure like that horrendous RUF. I have a trick though I have modular pedals mounted the clutch right beside my brake. So for really tricky cars like the RUF in AC where you really need to use the clutch while braking I can still LFB.
 

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