Buying Upgrades or Quick Tune/Performance Points System???

[blaktek]

The integration of both systems would be just fine. Although, the PP logic must be explicit, so everyone can grasp its concepts.

AS for the tuning part, one would buy parts and install them. Then, the choice of quick tune and the greasy one is presented. Toy around with sliders (dependent on available parts) to match the limitations. Or go deep inside, and slap a #4 turbo instead of a #3, but lower the pressure (as in GT1) to limit the power input while keeping the boost in the high RPM, just because of those long straights.

GT has always been about choice, and I don't see this one any different in this aspect.

 

[syaieya]

I chose both because although the GT mode really needs that level of customization, like it has been said it will help keep the online races closer.

But also something that hasnt been noted is it's used in arcade mode. Say that I have a race ready Impreza that I want to use in a race against my friend. But He doesnt have anything because he has no save data. So instead of using my specially tuned car he goes into the arcade ready selection and we do 2 player split screen with my GT mode car and his slightly adjusted car from the arcade mode selection.

 

[CoolColJ]

In my opinion, this "Performance Points" system is arcade nonsense. Is the eligibility of one's car to enter a race in the real world determined by such a system? Thought not, that would be impossible.

They do balance cars out in many regulations and competitions to even out the field for closer racing. Such as increasing minmum weight for the fast cars, add air restrictors to limit horsepower, smaller engine sizes for turbo cars, and boost limits, bigger engine for NA cars, add weight for 4WD cars, etc. Group A touring cars back in the day ran like this, as do most GT racing events.
Some series even add weight depending on the race results and points position.

No different from a PP system, just less precise and manually adjusted

 

[Anathema]

I'd prefer to see the upgrading system (old-style) in the career mode, and the Quick Tune/Performance Points system liminted to online.
That will be able to create level playing fields.
However, I can deal with the Quick Tune/Performance Points system in the career mode, as long as the upgrading system (old-style) isn't completely removed from the game.

 

[greenlightning]

Of course buying upgrade parts is the only way to go. It would not be grantursimo if they did away with that. What they need to do is expand the tuning on a big scale. However for those that do not have a high interest in buying parts etc., then let them buy tuning packages. I would like to see stage 1 tune package, stage 2 tune package, stage 3 package, stage 4 package as a minimum. Maybe for some makes of cars there could even be tune up packages with options, maybe 3 or 4 versions of stage 1 tune up etc.. If they wanted to get really creative let you choose what is in a tuning package and then that could be applied to all cars that allow tuning. However the parts etc. would be what you would be able to buy if you was to purchase them individually for that particular make. I would also like more realism, have to buy tires when you run out, or maybe you buy a certain amount of sets at a time. Same with damage, pay for repairs, car stays damage until is is repaired unless it is totaled. Racing fuel is one of the things though that should not have to be purchased in my opinion. However with online and some form of online car sales amongst players, it should be easy to buy cars already tuned to whatever level you want for thoughs who are not in to tuning.

GTProlugue tuning will be okay for arcade mode or for online races inwhich perhaps the race organizer has allowed only limited tuning. Perhaps the online race allows bone stock new or used cars with limited tuning or predefined tuning. I would also like online mode to have an option to allow the race organizer to choose 16 cars or whatever the max if from his garage. Then as players sign up/enter the race they get to choose one of those cars, would make for some close racing.

 

[SuperShouden]

I prefer buying parts. However, online, I think the Performance Points would work the best.

 

[Tornado]

I think you should be able to purchase parts, and the parts change the PP value of the car, similar to the A-Spec points used in GT4.

 

[NLxAROSA]

They do balance cars out in many regulations and competitions to even out the field for closer racing. Such as increasing minmum weight for the fast cars, add air restrictors to limit horsepower, smaller engine sizes for turbo cars, and boost limits, bigger engine for NA cars, add weight for 4WD cars, etc. Group A touring cars back in the day ran like this, as do most GT racing events.
Some series even add weight depending on the race results and points position.

No different from a PP system, just less precise and manually adjusted

Exactly. When you're hosting an event, you don't have to specify all those things you mentioned, you just say 'xx PP'. Much more flexible IMO. Besides, you can always ignore the PP system and add your own restrictions (e.g. no turbo, max xx HP, etc.), much like people have been doing in GT5P online for ages (e.g. S2-only in events without tire restrictions).

 

[Snaeper]

... I would also like more realism, have to buy tires when you run out, or maybe you buy a certain amount of sets at a time. Same with damage, pay for repairs, car stays damage until is is repaired unless it is totaled...

Realism factor would go up, fun factor would go wayyyyyyy down. Especially if they make it as bad as Sega GT 2002 did where it automatically deducts the credits out of your winnings to repair your car.

Sorry, that's one aspect of reality that you just have to realize sucks and shouldn't be re-created in a recreational sim racer. Unless they give the option to turn it on and off (though you shouldn't be punished for having it off.. or rewarded for having it on) then it would be acceptable, but I wouldn't play more than a few weeks before I consider selling it and my Playstation if they implemented mandated auto-repairs with no option to disable.

It's one thing every game should allow, that being user scalability on difficulty levels.

 

[GTXLR]

Realism factor would go up, fun factor would go wayyyyyyy down. Especially if they make it as bad as Sega GT 2002 did where it automatically deducts the credits out of your winnings to repair your car.

This happens in Forza 3 if i remeber correctly and it didnt seem to affect the gameplay to badly

 

[Gran_Turismo]

I voted for both.

Simple reason.

Have only performance parts in "GT mode", while only having Quick Tune for Arcade mode (with the exception of using your own cars from GT mode).

 

[Tornado]

I wouldn't play more than a few weeks before I consider selling it and my Playstation if they implemented mandated auto-repairs with no option to disable.

He didn't say mandated auto repairs. That would annoy me, but what he said is more similar to the system a couple of the Need For Speed games used, and I quite like that system.

 

[Seismica]

It is not Performance Points that you're talking about - you're actualy talking about Quick Tune Setup.

And diference is stellar there.

While Performance Points are purely a stastical value that determines power/weight ratio of your car to tyre-compound and possible aerodnyamics value, Quick Tune Setup is the process that allows you to change those in easy way.

So, your problems are not Perfomance Points but Quick Tune Setup proces.

IMO Quick Tune Setup should have nothing to do with GT Life mode and should be restricted to Arcade and Online races if applicable.

Performance Points are welcomed in the overall game, because they allow to make races restricted in GT Life mode (as HP value was in GT2 for example) and they allow you to upgrade your car - with "normal" mechanical parts - to appropriate value of some race/championship.

Other issue is revamp of overall Performance Points system that should take place in order to make it more logical. BUt it is a lenghty one and I'll leave to for some other time.

Please correct your OP in order to avoid confusion. Thanks and regards.

This is pretty much what I think.

Quick tune for arcade (And possibly online). PP in GT life and online. Buying parts like in previous GT games to contribute towards the PP level of the car in GT life.

Quick tune only in GT life would be a game-breaker for me. PP will make races even and fair, in both GT life and online, it doesn't necessarily have to be related to quick tune, that was just for GT5P and GTPSP because Prologue was just a demo and PSP had problems with data storage on the UMD, so I don't think tuning could have went that far.

 

[Dan_]

^^ Yep, what Seismica said.

Also, Kaz mentioned the CR-Z as a good example of interesting car after tuning and he mentioned turbocharging, so adding parts is mandatory in all proper GT titles, if Prologue had the option to tune the cars as we did in GT4, the game lifetime would have been ten times larger.

Quick tune just doesn't cut it, let it lurk in Arcade mode. 👎

 

[Ak-48]

I say keep the PP and let it determine restrictions for events. PP could be raised by upgrading, and lowered by removing upgrades or detuning the car.

That would make it similar basically the same to Forza's PI (Peformance Index) system, but they should balance it so we don't have ridiculously broken cars that dominate classes like in Forza...

 

[Imari]

There will always be a best car, but as long as it doesn't feel like I have no chance of winning at all because I didn't choose a Clio, I would consider the system a success.

 

[Anathema]

That would make it similar basically the same to Forza's PI (Peformance Index) system, but they should balance it so we don't have ridiculously broken cars that dominate classes like in Forza...

Which is why I don't play Forza online anymore.

 

[Griffith500]

I don't understand why people can think we won't get parts-based modifications in "GT-Life" (as I see we're to call it now). Maybe for some people, a quick-tune slider will be just right for the GT mode. Not for me, though. I voted both.

The Performance Points system, as a method of measuring potential performance, is obviously flawed but better than the A-spec system from GT4. This means they're improving it, and it'll probably be better in GT5 than it was in the Prologue.

Having options is the key. If I want it, I should be able to select it (to a certain degree, obviously) and if I don't much care for it, I should be able to forego it.

Chances are, I'd want full damage and repair costs for manual repairs (or scrapping...) tyre stocks needing to be maintained and a full host of race entry requirements, either in PP or in more specific criteria, as in previous games, except this time actually useful (i.e. a horsepower limit, plus a minimum weight or a limitation on weight-reduction schemes).

As for punishment and reward: I agree totally that those that choose a less hardcore experience should not be punished per-sé, however those who do choose the greater challenge should get some kind of reward
This could be a bit of extra cash to partly offset the extra costs, or reduced costs on other services (basic game balancing, I suppose) but I'm not so sure about trophies (gasp!) or other (e.g. online) "perks", depending on their implementation and effect on the bragging crowd...

If you've not got the balls to take it on, why should you be nannied and "told" otherwise? Equally, I suppose, there should be no shame for the more casual players (as opposed to those with no skills...) if they choose less hardcore options. (Teach them kids some humility! )

 

[CoolColJ]

Yeah having to pay for maintenance and damage repairs in the career mode will temper reckless driving like it is in real life, and generate more realistic lap times as well

Nobody drives balls to wall in real life due to the fear factor and the effects of G-forces. Adding the extra costs would go a long way to put this effect in.

If you want to mess around, do it in arcade mode.
Hell maybe having it like that for online in Pro Physics mode would clean up the online play.... your sure not going to be trying to drive on the limit every lap...

 

[Snaeper]

Nobody drives balls to wall in real life due to the fear factor and the effects of G-forces. Adding the extra costs would go a long way to put this effect in.

In a virtual environment you can afford to drive balls to the wall, why hamper it the same way as real life?

If you want to mess around, do it in arcade mode.
Hell maybe having it like that for online in Pro Physics mode would clean up the online play.... your sure not going to be trying to drive on the limit every lap...

Have the choice if they implement such a feature. You shouldn't simply relegate reckless driving to arcade mode. Sony funds GT because it sells well. If they make it too difficult and too realistic(and thus suck the fun out of racing casually) then they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. They need to take the same approach that they have with Physics in GT5 and they had with Damage in GT2: If you want to make it hard, you can, but it's not required. I think Forza took the wrong direction with their "You make more money for driving with fewer aids" philosophy, the only reward should be the personal satisfaction one gains for regularly winning with the hardest settings.

Remember too, in real life in professional racing series, racers and drivers have to work hard to get their racing license. So their behavior on track isn't so much their fear of simply wrecking their car and ending their race/season/career.. but it's because of their training. Online events will more than likely not require you to have completed any licenses (would be very very interesting if did though... not that I imagine what are essentially skill challenges would improve the reckless demeanor of online competitors racing style) so simply throwing damage on isn't going to solve the problem. If anything it might only cause them when good clean racers get wrecked by slackers.

When I started GT5rologue, I had the racing line on, I used standard physics and I used the bumper cam. After awhile I graduated to the hood view... then I turned off the racing line... then I started using professional physics. All of these changes came once I was comfortable with game and the cars etc. Now I'm even working on manually shifting the car with my remote (wayyyyy too much hand/brain coordination says it's been rather difficult though). Drivers should be allowed to experiment and make the game deeper. Honestly I've seen a lot more mileage, fun and playtime with GT5 as I slowly advanced the cars driving physics and ultimately I'm glad that there was never any noticeable penalty for racing without them. This is the way GT5 and all sim games should do it imo.

 

[Dan_]

Hummm, re-reading the original post, I should recommend a desambiguation on the poll, to me quick tune doesn't have anything to do with PP. Performance points are only a calculated metric to express in quantity how much performance a given car have, regardless of the tuning method.

The discussion should be Quick-tune vs Buying Ugrades which are both tuning methods. The currently available options doesn't allow a clear understanding of the poll, in my opinion, of course.

 

[analog]

Hummm, re-reading the original post, I should recommend a desambiguation on the poll, to me quick tune doesn't have anything to do with PP. Performance points are only a calculated metric to express in quantity how much performance a given car have, regardless of the tuning method.

The discussion should be Quick-tune vs Buying Ugrades which are both tuning methods. The currently available options doesn't allow a clear understanding of the poll, in my opinion, of course.

Yep totally agree, PP is just an equalizer system or objectively calculating all aspects which indeed has nothing to do with how tuning will be applied.
I think it's safe and logical to assume buying tuning parts ( as available in every full GT game ) will make its return whilst quick tune could possibly still be available in Arcade Mode.

 

[twisteddeeds]

If both are implemented, I think the only way it could be possible would be for, say stock cars getting the PP system even in GT mode... and if you installed upgrades, the system would revert to like it has always been in GT. But personally I think if they want PP in there for "an equaliser".. I think they will have pp for everything.

I'm hoping not, but I have this feeling "online mostly" we are going to get a PP system AND a Tuning parts hybrid in the game. It won't be as restrictive as prologue.. But I think PP will govern overall even if you add parts or not. Maybe not for everything, but it will be there for certain races to create an even playing field...

I hope I'm wrong....

 

[witham]

We know that the PP system is in GT5 as it has been spotted in online mode but I'm sure that PP will be infulenced by new parts.

 

[analog]

If both are implemented, I think the only way it could be possible would be for, say stock cars getting the PP system even in GT mode... and if you installed upgrades, the system would revert to like it has always been in GT. But personally I think if they want PP in there for "an equaliser".. I think they will have pp for everything.

I'm hoping not, but I have this feeling "online mostly" we are going to get a PP system AND a Tuning parts hybrid in the game. It won't be as restrictive as prologue.. But I think PP will govern overall even if you add parts or not. Maybe not for everything, but it will be there for certain races to create an even playing field...

I hope I'm wrong....

PP also applies ( at least in Prologue ) to the stock cars as it's purely a method of measuring how different cars relate to each other as in the performance they're capable of.
A stock Ferrari F40 could take on a fully tuned Kei car with ease I reckon so it's only fair that some sort of PP system is in place.
It won't be as limiting as Prologue ( if only because the tuning possibilties possible require it ) as it appears a host can set up ( at least in the private lobbies ) the PP limit themselves ( maybe without limits even ).
And with far more cars available you probably see a lot more variety in those events which do have a limit ( as some events in Prologue do seem to attract the same sort of cars ).
It's somewhat the same as in real races whereby you have a strict set of regulations designed to keep competition close.
It's not much different than say a horsepower limit but much fairer as it takes all other elements into the equation ( weight, tyres, downforce, etc. )

 

[danielwhite74]

This happens in Forza 3 if i remeber correctly and it didnt seem to affect the gameplay to badly

The only reason it doesn't affect the gameplay is that it's laughably easy to obtain basically unlimited credits in that game, regardless of how much you abuse your car.

 

[Exorcet]

Both is the only option really. Tuning with parts should be in for the simulation factor. PP is needed to keep things even. PD was unforgivably lazy with past games, limiting by horsepower only. 500 hp supercar race? Go ahead and enter a JGTC car that is 1000 lbs lighter than everything else and has 10 times the downforce.

For online, PP is essential (though I hope not all races use it, one make/unmodified car races are a must). For single player, it should be optional, if there isn't some other method that allows one to play online without bypassing all of single player.

However, part tuning needs to be flexible enough so that we can change a car's PP by a number smaller than 50. We need have boost levels returned, adjustable ECU, weight ballasts, air restrictors, etc.

 

[loki993]

It's already been confirmed that parts tuning will be more in-depth than it had been in previous GT games. Plus, GT5 online menu shots have the PP spots in them.

So, I'm going to go with both.

Of course buying upgrade parts is the only way to go. It would not be grantursimo if they did away with that. What they need to do is expand the tuning on a big scale. However for those that do not have a high interest in buying parts etc., then let them buy tuning packages. I would like to see stage 1 tune package, stage 2 tune package, stage 3 package, stage 4 package as a minimum. Maybe for some makes of cars there could even be tune up packages with options, maybe 3 or 4 versions of stage 1 tune up etc.. If they wanted to get really creative let you choose what is in a tuning package and then that could be applied to all cars that allow tuning. However the parts etc. would be what you would be able to buy if you was to purchase them individually for that particular make. I would also like more realism, have to buy tires when you run out, or maybe you buy a certain amount of sets at a time. Same with damage, pay for repairs, car stays damage until is is repaired unless it is totaled. Racing fuel is one of the things though that should not have to be purchased in my opinion. However with online and some form of online car sales amongst players, it should be easy to buy cars already tuned to whatever level you want for thoughs who are not in to tuning.

GTProlugue tuning will be okay for arcade mode or for online races inwhich perhaps the race organizer has allowed only limited tuning. Perhaps the online race allows bone stock new or used cars with limited tuning or predefined tuning. I would also like online mode to have an option to allow the race organizer to choose 16 cars or whatever the max if from his garage. Then as players sign up/enter the race they get to choose one of those cars, would make for some close racing.

Exactly. I feel that if they went with a straight PP tuning model it would be a massive step backwards to the already bad tuning the other games have had. I'm really hoping for a much more in depth and overhauled tuning system in this version.

 

[CoolColJ]

PP is just a method of measurement, it has nothing to do with tuning