camber- test results for GT5

[Adrenaline]

I personally feel, that camber does effect braking distances.
More camber, less braking potential. But that's strictly based on personal experience, I have no tests or data to back this up, so... Take it for what it's worth.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

I personally feel, that camber does effect braking distances.
More camber, less braking potential. But that's strictly based on personal experience, I have no tests or data to back this up, so... Take it for what it's worth.

That's pretty much the way it is, a give and take between straight line performance, and cornering performance. While I don't have any test data either, I have tested it and ill confirm this.

 

[nostuner03]

I run 5 degrees of camber in the front and 2.5 in the back on pretty much all my cars except my drift cars.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

I run 5 degrees of camber in the front and 2.5 in the back on pretty much all my cars except my drift cars.

Wow that's a bit, how's it work out for yah? Is that where you ended up after tuning through feel?

 

[nostuner03]

Wow that's a bit, how's it work out for yah? Is that where you ended up after tuning through feel?

I found this works quite well for me after testing it around the nurburgring during online races. I originally got the idea from watching touring car racing. One V8 supercar race i seen a car with at least 4.5 degrees. So, I tried it out and it worked. I use a logitech DFP, and alot of people i know online that use DS3 say it doesnt work for them.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I personally feel, that camber does effect braking distances.
More camber, less braking potential. But that's strictly based on personal experience, I have no tests or data to back this up, so... Take it for what it's worth.

Maybe with tires that are hard as rocks? I haven't seen any loss in braking by adding camber in GT5. I'm calling this another myth. Let's talk real world for a second, then come back to GT5. Look at a tire at 1.0 up to 3.5 degrees of camber. The tire contact patch is still the exact same size. The tire is flexible enough to keep the same contact patch, just moving it slightly to the inside of the tire. I don't think this will affect braking. It doesn't on my real world race cars and I don't experience it in the game.

Camber is mostly used to affect tire angle in the corners. Weight transfer is enough to lean tires in the corners, especially fronts, so that the contact patch can move to the edge of the tire and even up the side wall; thus making the contact patch smaller = less grip. Whenever there are photographers at the race track, I buy the photos they have shot of my car in the corners. This visual, along with inside, middle and outside temperatures tells me I am at the propper camber. GT5, unfortunately, did not provide us with propper tire temperatures at in, mid and out. We do have photo mode though. Go check out your camber settings on a straight vs. in a corner. On the straight, you won't see any air under the tires - good contact patch. In a corner, with the wrong camber, you can see air under a portion of the tire.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[jimmyblaze]

I was online at nurburgring last night, ran about 25 races with 8 or so people and won more than half the races. The camber I used was .8(in front) and .4(in back). My logic for doing so is, I looked at a Nascars camber and found it to be 1(in front) and .5(in back). The tracks designed for nascar have high camber turns, much higher than any turn on nurburgring. I figured the camber needed to be lower, and it seemed to work.

 

[chuyler1]

Maybe with tires that are hard as rocks? I haven't seen any loss in braking by adding camber in GT5.

Maybe it isn't actual braking distances. It could be corner entry speed. With high camber, the tires won't reach a full contact patch until maximum load is applied and the body begins to rotate. Running high camber may give the sense of understeer until the outside tires are fully loaded. Furthermore, going with high camber reduces the contact patch of the inside drive wheel causing potential wheelspin on corner exit. The result is higher mid-corner speeds while sacrificing corner entry and corner exit speeds.

 

[XDesperado67]

I was online at nurburgring last night, ran about 25 races with 8 or so people and won more than half the races. The camber I used was .8(in front) and .4(in back). My logic for doing so is, I looked at a Nascars camber and found it to be 1(in front) and .5(in back). The tracks designed for nascar have high camber turns, much higher than any turn on nurburgring. I figured the camber needed to be lower, and it seemed to work.

Actually, and someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but a high bank corner will require less Camber on tires as the banking helps offset the cars body roll due to the lower lateral G forces inflicted on the car.

 

[nasanu]

Interesting results. I am wondering why the results indicate that so very little camber is best? In the real world touring car racing running 5 degrees is a small amount of camber, even F1 cars that run much lower camber run 3-4 degrees. So why are such small amounts correct in GT5?

 

[nomis3613]

Interesting results. I am wondering why the results indicate that so very little camber is best?

My guess is it's because PD chose it to be that way!

Keep in mind that this testing was done many updates ago (April 2011), so it could be all wrong these days thanks to PD's physics ninja edits .

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Time to restart from the beginning, then.

 

[88GTA]

The biggest issue here is separating real physics from GT5 physics. I found that the best way to do that is read those "?" boxes when tuning and take it word for word. I read them every time I'm tuning just so I remember. For camber specifically it mentions that too much can also effect traction.

One thing not mentioned yet is that camber will need to be different for the several drive train layouts. As much as we would all like to just make one equation that fits every car it isn't possible. To get it 100% correct, you'd need a tune for each kind of tire on each kind of track and for different weather conditions... and that's for each car.

In real life it's even more challenging when you add the combination of wheel sizes, tire sizes, tire pressure, rear suspension angles, tire temperature, outdoor temperature, outdoor humidity, tire compound and track compound.

 

[Blood*Specter]

Indeed all things being equal, it would be perhaps easy to develop a baseline using cars with 50/50 weight distribution. As I would think forces working on both front and rear change on a car sporting let's say 40/60 weight balance from front to rear.

I find the RX-7's tend to have 50/50 split (Spirit, Bathurst to name two) that might serve as good test mules.💡

I am sure there are others. And trust me; I am no expert car man.

But I do try to setup camber/suspensions that give the best compromise between handling and tire ware. Especially at the Nurburgring where faulty values can render tires completely ineffective before the completion of a single lap.

I do enjoy when accomplished GT5 tuners talk on this subject.
Please continue.👍

 

[Master_gamer438]

Would be nice to see lap times. I see 2.5 was better high speed and 1.5-2.0 low speed, try a 1.7 to 2.3 to get a bit of both. I'm sure track with low speed and high speed corners you could adjust accordingly. But I might try this as nurburg has quite a few. And most, well actually I dont think i've ever tried higher then a 1.0. I did test my NASCAR a long time ago. Some guys at Daytona noticed a speed increase but I noticed my car was actually slower. I was basing off lap times rather then speed. The track was daytona. Messing with ride height I can manage 223MPH entering turn 3. This was what I noticed. Higher camber did increase speed, but I lost speed coming out of corners. I believe I was hitting 206 on the exits. Strangely enough with a top speed of 222MPH I was exiting corners at 208MPH. So with the slower top speed my car was actually faster in the corners ultimately giving me a faster lap time. Alot of guys racing NASCAR seem to think the faster you hit a corner the faster your lap. But if the car

 

[Master_gamer438]

couldnt hold the speed, then it was having a negative effect on the car. Adjusting my tranny I have hit 223MPH and almost 224MPH. Alot of ppl would kill for a NASCAR hitting those speeds solo. When in fact it's not only about top speed, cornering speed is just as important. P.S. sorry for DP.

 

[Lambob]

I'd like to ask a question:

a year into this fantastic game now, and I rarely ever used values higher than 2.0, 2.4 , and I often revert to 1.7 or sometimes 0.7 - 0.9 camber for optimal feeling on the Nur.

my question is, what are the whole 7 or 8 notches higher ever used for lol?

 

[chuyler1]

I'd be curious to see whether ride height affects camber by itself. So if you are at default height, camber of 3 might be desirable, but if you slam the car, 0 degrees may counteract natural camber a lowered suspension creates. Likewise, those high settings might be required for rally cars with lifted suspensions.

 

[Nicktune]

I'd be curious to see whether ride height affects camber by itself.

No.

 

[chuyler1]

ok, then i see no reason to go above 5...but in practice i never go about 3.

 

[Master_gamer438]

Goin as high as possible on camber I used to run on drag in GT4, such as a FWD having rear camber maxed out and in RWD having front camber maxed out. IN GT4 this created less drag on the car making your 1/4 mile times faster. Never ran drag in GT5 so not sure if the effects will be the same. But it was def a improvement in Past GT games for dragging. Otherwise a high camber would just be odd looking. As for ride height affecting camber there is no visual to confirm this, but i'd imagine in real life this would have a effect of some sort as lowering the height will create less bodyroll so less g-forces acting on the wheels. But i havent seen any of this act in game.

 

[nomis3613]

Time to restart from the beginning, then.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
(this is exactly why I am semi-retired from KMW)

One thing not mentioned yet is that camber will need to be different for the several drive train layouts.

Good point. More weight = more grip = potentially more camber reqd.

I would say my testing can only be used to identify general trends, the optimal angles will always be car-specific.

But I do try to setup camber/suspensions that give the best compromise between handling and tire ware. Especially at the Nurburgring where faulty values can render tires completely ineffective before the completion of a single lap.

I do enjoy when accomplished GT5 tuners talk on this subject.
Please continue.👍

Thanks, blood*specter. I haven't done much tyre wear testing, but I have seen a few experienced tuners say lower camber isn't always better for tyre wear (eg they have run 2.5-3 and not had wear problems)

Would be nice to see lap times.

Yeah, but my driving isn't anywhere near consistent enough for it to be useful!! I tried to give an overall impression with my comments, but in the end I prefer the controlled environment of testing a specific corner for this.

what are the whole 7 or 8 notches higher ever used for lol?

No idea! Perhaps photomode? Rally? Maybe there's a hidden car out there that works best with 7.8 deg camber

I'd be curious to see whether ride height affects camber by itself.

Yeah, would be good to re-test at different ride heights. I suspect GT5's physics is too basic for this, but never say never!

Goin as high as possible on camber I used to run on drag in GT4, such as a FWD having rear camber maxed out and in RWD having front camber maxed out.

Hmmmm... interesting. Thanks for sharing this info.

 

[Master_gamer438]

It used to be highly effective in GT3 and 4, extreme cambers for drag. Never worked for AWD/4WDs because both front and rear wheels, and come to think I did this on the civic type r, with over 400HP I believe. It worked on tsukuba. I ran some laps till I was consistent. I had racing softs up front with minor camber and maxed rear camber. The car still understeered so I put a hard compound on rear to get the car to slide, with the car setup like this I count down lap times and had the car near drifting through corners as rear tire had little to no contact patch. I wouldnt recommend the same for a RWD as you need front grip to turn for course wise racing. But recalling I did try it and it def worked. But I never did a extensive test. It was just that 1 civic. I'd also like to say about ride effecting camber. I dont think it will make a difference, but from testing NASCARS, 15 10 is optimum. In GT5 the higher the car, faster you are, lower the car, faster and stable in corners.

 

[saidaouita]

It's all ball bearings these days.

 

[Master_gamer438]

Sorry for DP. Also this alone leaving camber the same will increase cornering speed as the cars center gravity is lowered. So doing this I see your cornering speed either staying the same or getting slightly more speed. Either way there will always be that grip threshold and slowly declining of grip as you showed in original graph. No worries about lap times. But as I will tell you In NASCAR Daytona top speed for me is 223MPH, but that high speed effects cornering. In short, holding 2MPH in both corners and 1MPH through the trioval was faster then hitting 1MPH top speed. So as you can see having a high top speed is worthless if you cant make up the difference in corners. Thats why it'd would have been nice to see lap times per camber. Sorry for blabbing. Cheers

 

[yoghurt_dog]

I have found MR cars often require a significant rear camber to counteract oversteering. I think I set the Oillum Spirra's rear camber to 3 or 3.5 and it was much much quicker around Trial Mountain. Which seems silly but it actually worked. Doubt whether real-life cars work quite like that!

 

[Master_gamer438]

yoghurt, a natural way to counter oversteer is positive rear toe. For camber on my NSX type R I run +0.10 for rear toe with 0.4 camber. Literally no oversteer at 550PP with 430HP at 1051kg.

 

[yoghurt_dog]

yoghurt, a natural way to counter oversteer is positive rear toe. For camber on my NSX type R I run +0.10 for rear toe with 0.4 camber. Literally no oversteer at 550PP with 430HP at 1051kg.

Thanks, yeah I'm pretty sure I put positive toe on as well. That's what I done with the Suzuki GSX-r4 I'm using on the Madrid time trial right now, I think 1.5 camber and +0.09 toe on the rears. Works a treat, very little sliding about now, at least compared to the default setup.

 

[oze]

I have found MR cars often require a significant rear camber to counteract oversteering. I think I set the Oillum Spirra's rear camber to 3 or 3.5 and it was much much quicker around Trial Mountain. Which seems silly but it actually worked. Doubt whether real-life cars work quite like that!

I have the same observation. On some MR cars high rear camber makes them faster around corners! I set it up usually somewhere between 2.2 - 3.0 for MR cars.

 

[chuyler1]

It works for RR cars too...and IIRC real-world Porsche racers will use more rear camber than front.