Can PD Learn Some Lessons From Codemasters? (SPECIAL TOPIC)

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Originally posted by live4speed
What licenses have MS and CM both got that PD don't have, CM has TOCA, V8 Supercars and DTM licenses and nothing special car wise, MS has licenses for Porsche and Ferrari, nothing special anywhere else. Money isn't the issue when it comes to licenses, if somone else owns it, it;s up to them AND the company who sold the license to allow you to use it, if one of them says no, you don't get it, and if the company holding the license is a competitior, the chances sre you won't get for any ammount of cash.
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Bu they don't have the ability to wreck the vehicle like in Microsoft's and Codemaster's games.

- Adam
 
The games not out yet, you can only choose the AI level in the Demo.
 
Originally posted by zoxxy
Bu they don't have the ability to wreck the vehicle like in Microsoft's and Codemaster's games.

- Adam
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If you managed to read my post below it you would see why.

Originally posted by Me
The damage is licensing issues, most of the cars used in GT would be okay to be damaged, but some of the better cars might not be, it all depends on the manufacturers. Also you have to consider that if PD put damage into a GT game and they have stated this, it would be realistic damage, no driving head on into other cars and surviving it, and car manufacturers have more of a problem allowing that knd of damage than the damage in RD and PGR2 although RD2 has hit new ground for a game with thoes cars in being able to total them. Remeber though, if PD arn't allowed to put damage on only a few cars in GT, that means there is no damage in the game at all, it's a decision that would be made early on in development, to leave thoes cars put, or to leave damage out, leaving the cars out could mean leaving out some of the better cars in the game though.
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I think that the TOCA and Colin McRae games have got progressibly worst from a handling point of view, from very good beginnings. So nothing to learn from Codemasters there. Whereas the GT games have got better, with the best dual shock compatibility of any game. Not everone uses a wheel.;)

The rally sections of GT feel better to me than any other rallying games. I hope Richard Burns Rally is as good, if not better, we'll have to wait and see.

As for the damage in GT games.
Reason 1. As has already been said, unless all the manufacturers agree you won't see it.
Reason 2. I've also read that realistic damage would make for very short races. After all it is the "Real Driving Simulator".:)

I would have liked something akin to the tyre wear indicator, but for the carbody, to discourage the basher's and railriders. It may not be ultra real, but it would encourage good driving/racing.

I would've liked the extra cars on track like Codemasters, but not to the detriment of graphics and framerate. But if the AI is good in the game, the amount of cars shouldn't be a big factor. I want to race with evenly matched cars and competitors. Some of the best GT races I've had are 1 on 1 with another rally car. The final F1 series in GT3, was so unfair, with regards to pit stops, that no amount of cars would have made a difference. That's only bit of GT3 I couldn't finish. :(

The AI is one of the places the GT games need to improve. But then that's a common fault amongst all racing games, which is why online games are increasing in popularity.

But the biggest problem with the GT series, is that I can't get the 4th version tomorrow.

Not long for Prologue though:)
 
Thank you redhed17 nice summary especially concerning gameplays..

Just to sum up my opinion :

GT gameplay is the best you can find on a console. really pleasent to drive alone on a nice track ( Laguna in GT3 is great)

BUT Every other details you should find in a racing game should be improved in GT series. And this is where PD should find advice in other games ...

gameplay is not everything !!! atmosphere is THE thing that make you love a game !!!

and it's clear that if GT4 AI is crap, I will really be disappointed !!!!

( I'm happy I just bought GTConcept this week end... but already saw every thing I could find !!! I will never buy prologue !!! )
 
Actually I thought that the handling of TOCA race driver in sim mode seemed more realistic than that of GT3's, which IMO just seemed to arcady. Plus it seemed like TOCA RD actually had decent braking distances, where as with GT3's it just seems like the cars can stop within a second. And before people say anything, yes I do drive and yes I've driven in anger, and TOCA RD still feels more realistic than GT3. Though I would also like to point out that this is only if you use a wheel. Using the anologue with RD is impossible, but with a wheel it's bliss. Also you do need to set up your car correctly.
Redhead: Good points 👍.
 
GT3 has been a permenent fixture in my console since its release, and only recently its been neglected, the reason?? Formula 1 2003, now this game could show PD a few things about AI. A 20 car field with AI reflecting real driver attributes, realistic overtaking moves, etc. If you get a chance to try this game, go to spectator mode and reverse the grid, ie: Schumy at the back alnong with the other top runners, now watch how they slice through the field, trying to out brake the slower cars, taking alternate lines into corners to gain track position, hands down this has got to be the most "human" AI ive seen in a console game. Unfortunately all you non-PAL gamers cant experience this, this game has made GT3 seem boring for now, Im just waiting for the PAL ver of prolouge to come out and then my GT addiction can start again...
 
Originally posted by redhed17
As for the damage in GT games.
Reason 1. As has already been said, unless all the manufacturers agree you won't see it.
...
I would have liked something akin to the tyre wear indicator, but for the carbody, to discourage the basher's and railriders. It may not be ultra real, but it would encourage good driving/racing.
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Yes, KY has said on a number of occassions that it's all or nothing - either all cars have damage or none do.

Now, what we don't know is if or when they do include damage, but invisible damage. The car doesn't show damage externally, but it doesn't handle as well after being hit.

How about realistic engine damage? Enjoy leading most of your two hour endurance race only to have your engine mysteriously blow-up as you approach the finishline. Naaaaa...

Wait for E3.

Cheers,

MasterGT
 
I think having damage would be a good addition even if it's not visable, I wouldn't go to the extremes of totaling your car like in RD2, at least not until visable damage is allowed but certainly make parts ware over time and if you crash your wheels, suspension, gearbox and engine can all be damaged to a degree that will put you at a disadvantage but not so much of one that you can'nt at least make it to the pits to repair it.
 
Thanks for the kind words people, it's nice to get these things off your chest

If Codemasters can't get their interface to work with both a wheel and a joystick, and especially the joystick, it will put a lot of people off their releases. Joysticks are the most popular interface device, by a very long way.

Not something Polyphony Digital need copy.;)

But seriously, to not make a game work properly with a joystick, should be financial suicide. It doesn't seem to be hurting sales though does it. All the magazine's are saying their games a the best handling, probably using wheels in the office, people get the games home and believe that's how they should feel. It would be interesting to see if they review the games using all the interfaces.

It put me off their games anyway. And I got Colin McRae 1+2, and TOCA 1+2. :(
 
Like you said, the Stick or Pad depending mainly on weather yhou have a PC or console version of the game are the most popular controllers, wheels are expensive and also take up space. They're great but not many people have them and RD didn't drive that well with the pad, it wasn't a crap game as a result, just not a great one.
 
I don't think it was whether a game is for the PC or Console. Their games are getting good reviews on console, but still playing badly with a pad. I just think it's bad programming. I played the TOCA RD demo on PC and XBox and PS2. Just to make sure. They were all pretty similar. But for me, totally uplayable.

I hope the new one is better, it's getting good reviews, but then so did the other ones. :( I'll have to get another demo.:)

Sorry to go off topic.:O :)
 
I meant if you use a stick or a pad mainly depends on PC or console, at least it does round here, most PC gamers have sticks and all console gamers have pads.
 
I am playing Race Driver with a wheel and i like it(on SIM mode that is).
 
RD2 isn't THAT bad. The high powered racing cars in the demo are worrying. The jag is kinda soft and right, but the tyres skid a tad easy..

The high powered cars are weird. The V8 Supercar is meant to have a rev limit of 7500rpm (its actually over 8k), and the car has no differential in real life, which makes the cornering "exciting". I thought this was quite accurately portrayed in a rough kind of way. Still, bit miffed they couldn't even get the rev limit correct, this IS the official game of the v8 supercars!

Then i drove the DTM... and it felt just the same, maybe harder to corner in!! Awful twitchiness even with a wheel, hitting curbs was suicide, and it had all the cornering stability of a rollerskate.

I can tell CM went home and did some research after the debarcle that RD1 was, but RD2 still drops the ball on the physics front. It's right in places, which exposes other deficiencies (a risk when going "sim" and using a physics model).

If i didn't have to drive the high powered cars, i might be interested in buying it. But if other cars handle like poo too, then its a definite no, once again.

I was looking forward to truck racing...
 
Anyone want to talk about what PD can learn from Codemasters? I think that if you race with more powerful race cars, I would think that car control isn't as easy as Gran Turismo 4, even if they were given Simulation tires. That reminds me...

(expect a topic about Simulation Tires very soon from me!)
 
Originally posted by cubits
RD2 isn't THAT bad. The high powered racing cars in the demo are worrying. The jag is kinda soft and right, but the tyres skid a tad easy..

The high powered cars are weird. The V8 Supercar is meant to have a rev limit of 7500rpm (its actually over 8k), and the car has no differential in real life, which makes the cornering "exciting". I thought this was quite accurately portrayed in a rough kind of way. Still, bit miffed they couldn't even get the rev limit correct, this IS the official game of the v8 supercars!
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The rev limit gets in the first patch for PC.

With a wheel, I think Codies have got it about right. It's a great sign when, after playing a game, I go to work, and all I can think about is playing the game more.

I bought the PC version on the weekend, and I think this game is very good. Look to my comments in the Game Reviews section. The AI's much better - much more like TOCA 2, and less likely to ram you.

The V8s are pretty squirrily, but only when you're injudicious with the throttle and brakes. I can get around Bathurt at pace without hitting anything, something I could never manage in Toca Race Driver 1.
 
Okay, I had a chance to update this topic with another Codemasters discussion.

I had a chance over the weekend to play "Pro Race Driver" for the past two days. And let me tell you. It is a pretty hard game. I narrowly missed out on the Americas Cup title in my first title because I accidentally aborted a pit stop. I haven't yet created my own review of Pro Race Driver, but the game features some of the most realistic action. I mean, the drivers know how to make pile ups, you can win or lose races going off course or in the wall. I even got knocked really hard to where I was lying on one side of my car. When it comes to racers who drive like jackasses, this game is king. I often have to rely on finding certain corners to try to out race other competitors. Then sometimes, I had to get dirty. In the opening storyline, after one of the McKanes rightfully won the race, this guy blindsides the McKane (can't remember which one), to the point where he's on his hood and the car explodes and that McKane died.

Anyhow, Codemasters knows what pure racing is all about. Only thing I forgive them for is that racing the 4WD cars in the game is like I'm playing Colin McRae Rally than a road racing game. So Codemasters know what full-contact racing as well as fighting through the pack is like. Gran Turismo is much easier, even though fighting for positition isn't any better.
 
The AI in Pro Race Driver borders on the psychotic - it does seem to border on hitting you deliberately. Pro Race Driver 2's AI is much more like TOCA and TOCA 2 - you'll generally only get hit in the context of racing, e.g. braking early before a corner, slow exits, or rubbing as the AI tries a pass up the inside.

I think they went a bit over the top with that stuff in Pro Race Driver.
 
They were taught how to race by Japanese Kamikaze pilots.
 
I bought the Official XBox Magazine today, to try the demo of TOCA Race Driver 2.

I put the disc in my XBox, and the demo isn't there. Unless I'm doing something totally stupid,(which could happen;) :) ) I'm missing the demo, and only have a demo of "Drake Of The 99 Dragons", which is cr*p.

I was looking forward to seeing if they had improved on the last one. Which I wasn't keen on.

I'll have to see if my email to the XBox mag is returned tomorrow. :mad:
 
i play games since 1978/79. never stoped.
i played on all major popular platforms including some more obscure ones like acorn archimedes and msx, etc etc.
i hold game making as an artform.

now lemme say this:

I NEVER SAW SUCH AN INSULTING THREAD TITLE AS THIS ONE.

not for its words, but for what they mean.

dude, in my opinion, PD has NOTHING to learn from codemasters, except how to make $H|T shine.
 
Have you played any Codemasters games lately,like Race Driver or Race driver 2?
Those games have the best A.I ever.GT 3´s A.I is miles behind.That´s what PD can learn from Codemasters.
 
lol.

yes i tested rd2 both offline and online...

btw, as AIs go, the most advanced i saw was lfs. since they actually drive a car. like you. not ai cars, but ai humans that drive and learn...
still wip but going on right direction.

dont mention codemasters as an example on anything to anyone much less pd.
 
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