Can we still see this "War" on GT4?

[fporto_br]

Yes, guys... The M5 is now an official production model instead of a concept. It´s much more attractive than a plain Series 5, but there is a new sport "sedan" trying to steal its admirers: the new Mercedes CLS 55 AMG. And it is simply GORGEOUS!!! It has a little less power than the Bimmer (476 vs. 507) but it's not that much, making them great contenders for a super-sedan racing series. And Mr. Kazunori has both BMW and MB on his list of manufacturers.

So, the questions that arise are:
1. Are we going to see this battle of german super-sedans on GT4?
2. What do you think of them?
3. Do you think the CLS can make the cut into GT4 in time?
4. Is he a real challenge to the "almighty" M5?
5. What other great super-sedans can join this "war" (Audi's RS6, for example)

C´mon guys, post your replies!

 

[Dave A]

First off, theres a possibility of any cars that haven't been held back due to licensing issues to appear in GT4. BMW and Mercedes-Benz both are in GT4, there are some AMG models already in so why not.

Personally I prefer the new M5, I'm not overly keen on either lookswise but I really diss-like the CLS 55. As far as other competition would go, the next S Type-R should be in that class (the current one is no slouch) and then you have the Maserati Quattroporte which I don't know how well it would do with only 400Bhp, but hey in GT you can tune your cars right.

 

[35mm]

There's a bit of a chance that we see that battle happening in GT4.

The CLS 55 AMG is the best looking imo.
The M5 is probably the one with the best handling.

Whatever happens, the Mercedes will lose the battle if PD decides to implement electronic failures in GT4...

 

[Event]

There's a bit of a chance that we see that battle happening in GT4.

The CLS 55 AMG is the best looking imo.
The M5 is probably the one with the best handling.

Whatever happens, the Mercedes will lose the battle if PD decides to implement electronic failures in GT4...

Ugh! M5 looks 10 times better than the CL55. I also heard that the M5 handles like a boat in GT4...

Also, the M5 might lose if electronics take a part in it, the iDrive System will be too complex for the driver, he won't keep his eyes on the road because he is trying to turn the A/C on and he accidently turned TCS off and will fly off the Nurburgring...

 

[M5_dude]

I think in order to create a good "German battle" they need to put in the E30 M3 ETCC car(the Warstiener car) to go up against the E190 ETCC car. It would be good to see two old school German models duke it out in GT4.

 

[35mm]

Ugh! M5 looks 10 times better than the CL55.

That's why I said imo. It will always be subjective. I just hate Bangle's design.

I also heard that the M5 handles like a boat in GT4...

I said probably. That is, judging by the E39 M5's handling.

Also, the M5 might lose if electronics take a part in it, the iDrive System will be too complex for the driver, he won't keep his eyes on the road because he is trying to turn the A/C on and he accidently turned TCS off and will fly off the Nurburgring...

But that's not an electronic failure. That's stupidity.

Anyway, don't take my words seriously. I was just a joke.

 

[Event]

Anyway, don't take my words seriously. I was just a joke.

Yeah, I assumed that. I forgot my [sarcasm] tags, too.

 

[drjoe1977]

At the new M5’s heart is a purpose-built 5.0-liter V10, fitted with individual throttle butterflies, variable valve timing, dual-flow stainless-steel exhaust system and a stratospheric 8250-rpm redline. The engine delivers 507 hp at 7750 rpm and 383 lb-ft at 6100 rpm. This is up 107 hp and 15 lb-ft on the outgoing model’s 4.9-liter V8 engine, making the new M5 the most powerful road-going BMW ever.

The engine is mated to a third-generation, seven-speed version of BMW’s sequential manual gearbox (SMG), now boasting 20 percent faster shift times. With 11 different shift programs, six in manual mode and five in automatic, the driver can tailor the gearbox’s action to suit the conditions. There is also a launch control function.

BMW claims can top 1.3 g

Another new feature is the M5’s power button. At start-up, the driver is given access to 400 hp in a default program, dubbed P400. Depressing the button unleashes P500, and the engine’s full 507-hp wallop along with a more responsive throttle. In P500, BMW says the new car will hit 60 mph in 4.7 seconds and its 155-mph top speed in 14.9 seconds. With its speed-limiting chip removed, BMW says the new sedan will reach 205 mph, although company policy prohibits official modification.

BMW claims the new M5 can lap the Nürburgring, where much of its development was done, in eight minutes—25 seconds faster than the outgoing M5.

 

[toler]

they both look like shoot. BMW should really go and sack CHRIS BANGLE who´s resposible for all those misshaped modern beamers....
the CLS, there´s something wrong with it´s look too (IMO)

i agree with live4speed that a maserati would be a nice addition.

 

[DevilGTx]

WELL...
DrJoe, you must have been watching SPEED this morning?
That is exactly how they described it on Autoweek. Or C&DTV?
And I must say, it does sound most impressive.
Especially the 155 in 14 seconds.
Wow, theoretically it should be almost as fast in 1320 as an Enzo.
Nah, that's not possible.

 

[bruddahmanmatt]

FWIW the CLS isn't supposed to be competition for the E60 M5. In fact it's not even considered a sedan by MB. They prefer to refer to the vehicle as a 4 door coupe (whatever that means). The E55 is the big dog BMW is going after with the E60 M5. It's very odd the way BMWs and MBs lineups do and do not stack up with one another. The CLS is meant as competition to the E63/64 6 Series but it offers two more doors and more room in the rear and is supposed to be a slightly more affordable alternative than the S-Class based 2 door CL Coupe. Originally they were gonna go with a suicide door design for the CLS (then called CLE) but that got canned in favor of traditional front hinged units. In all actuality, the CLS doesn't really fit any current niche and is kind of on its own so I could see why it would get compared to the M5 what with it having 4 doors.

 

[yeti]

I also heard that the M5 handles like a boat in GT4...

I wouldn't say that... it grips the road pretty well and lays down the horses v quickly... and is great for drifting... the only problem is that it brakes like a boat!!!

I read somewhere else on this forum that BMW gave PD a concept M5 to test that had standard 5 series brakes in... and that the production version will have ceramic brakes?! (Also the power is a little less in Prologue than the final version) So hopefully we'll get the Concept version and the Production version in GT4 and we'll be able to see how they've improved it in the year or so in between!!

C.

 

[TheCracker]

Road tests put the contemporary M5 (out-going model) as a better drivers car than the CLS 55. I should think that the new M5 will be better still...

 

[vladimir]

not even the SL 55 AMG stands a chance against the new m5 round a track and the e55 or cls 55 are even slower...

but it does not go from 0 to 155 mph in 14 seconds, that would be quicker than most supercars. its about 14 seconds to 125, which is still impressive fpr a sedan.

and the m5 power-button does not only give you the full 507 horses but also changes the setup of the whole car. you can preprogram it via the idrive and then on every startup by the push of one button set suspension, traction control, stability control, power, shifting and what else to your preferred mode.
thats for all the people who mourned about the amount of buttons you had to push when you startup your car for the mad drive to the grocery store.

 

[yeti]

but it does not go from 0 to 155 mph in 14 seconds, that would be quicker than most supercars. its about 14 seconds to 125, which is still impressive fpr a sedan.

Are you basing that time on GT4rologue?

The M5 (concept) in Prologue isn't the one that they've released... it has less power and worse brakes...

C.

 

[LaBounti]

FWIW the CLS isn't supposed to be competition for the E60 M5. In fact it's not even considered a sedan by MB. They prefer to refer to the vehicle as a 4 door coupe (whatever that means). The E55 is the big dog BMW is going after with the E60 M5. It's very odd the way BMWs and MBs lineups do and do not stack up with one another. The CLS is meant as competition to the E63/64 6 Series but it offers two more doors and more room in the rear and is supposed to be a slightly more affordable alternative than the S-Class based 2 door CL Coupe. Originally they were gonna go with a suicide door design for the CLS (then called CLE) but that got canned in favor of traditional front hinged units. In all actuality, the CLS doesn't really fit any current niche and is kind of on its own so I could see why it would get compared to the M5 what with it having 4 doors.

Good point, The CLS55 is a 4 door coupe and the E55AMG is the M5's comp. I dont see how the M5 could be quicker than the E55. 383lb-ft VS 536lb-ft, maybe its the transmission. The E55 is quicker than a 360 Modena(in a straighte line up to 130mph)

 

[Darin]

I also heard that the M5 handles like a boat in GT4...

I wouldn't doubt it would as big and heavy as that thing is, i really don't doubt it. But the engine itself is a monster.

 

[phantasm]

2001 Ferrari 360 Spider 0-60 = 4.6 1/4 = 13.2
2001 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG 0-60 = 5.0 1/4 = 13.6
2001 BMW M5 0-60 = 4.7 1/4 = 13.2

The Ferrari is just slighty faster than the Merc... but it is still saying something about how fast that merc sedan is! The M5 from the same year had the same #s as the Ferrari... nevertheless would be a great race as all the cars have about the same #s so it would really come down to driver skill.

as for the M5 in prologue... word is it didn't have proper brakes on it... put some upgrades to the stopping power and methinks it will rip up the tarmac nicely.

 

[LaBounti]

Thats the old E55, the new one does it 4.2-4.3

 

[Jay]

The M5 in GT4 is tail happy and yes the brakes are abit crud, but it is a big car and it does get up an go!!!

 

[vladimir]

Are you basing that time on GT4rologue?

The M5 (concept) in Prologue isn't the one that they've released... it has less power and worse brakes...

C.

lol...

i am talking about a car, not a game.

 

[phantasm]

Thats the old E55, the new one does it 4.2-4.3

i was just comparing similar years to the ferrari... anywho... the point is they're all roughly the same in straightline speed...i'd wager the ferrari is better through the curves (but that's a guess)... so it would be a nice grouping to race. Throw in the new Jag S-Type R, maybe the Maserati Quattroporte (although the 0-60 is 5.2), the Audi RS6 and you have a nice field to hit the ring with

 

[Pistachio]

Good point, The CLS55 is a 4 door coupe and the E55AMG is the M5's comp. I dont see how the M5 could be quicker than the E55. 383lb-ft VS 536lb-ft, maybe its the transmission.

The E55 has "only" 476hp and is slightly heavier (100kg or so i think).
Torque has little influence on the acceleration, though the shape of the torque CURVE is very important, but you don't usualy get a dyno sheet when you check a cars specs.

 

[bruddahmanmatt]

The E55 has "only" 476hp and is slightly heavier (100kg or so i think).
Torque has little influence on the acceleration, though the shape of the torque CURVE is very important, but you don't usualy get a dyno sheet when you check a cars specs.

That's not true. While the curve does play a large part in acceleration figures, the numbers do as well. You may have an engine that produces a very flat torque curve, but if peak torque is a gutless 100 lb.ft. or so, even if it's made at 1500 rpm and held there until redline, you ain't going anywhere fast, Especially with a 4000 lbs. sedan.

 

[DevilGTx]

Acceleration is directly related to torque.
Horsepower is a measure of how much energy an engine can produce.
Torque is the application of that energy into rotational motion...or force.

An advantage in torque doesn't mean a faster car.
example : My V6 Cavalier has about 190lb/ft of torque, while the Honda S2000 has about 155lb/ft of torque. And we know which one is faster.

 

[Pistachio]

Acceleration is directly related to torque assuming that gearing is kept the same.

But in real life situation acceleration is dependant on HP, torque delivery and gearing.
This is for example why an S2000 is a fast car, comparably so to a Boxter which has similar HP but much more torque.

It is a common misconception that just having high amounts of torque mean lots of acceleration, and just by looking at the "Car Physics Thread" pinned at the top of the General Automotive forum you can find an in depth explanation.

 

[DevilGTx]

here, look at this thing...Shockwave Jet Truck. Three (3) Pratt&Whitney turbofans
with full afterburners (from an F-18 Hornet)
quarter mile in 8s @ 210mph.
Do you know how much torque this machine produces?
Zero.

 

[usernamed]

I can see myself taking a nice quiet sunday ride in that monstrosity..

 

[Jay]

How do you stop that thing? Reverse thrust

( I am aware it has a parachute)

 

[usernamed]

How do you stop that thing? Reverse thrust

( I am aware it has a parachute)

Wouldn't be surprised if it's actually parachutes...