Car of the Week 228: COTY GTS Finale

  • Thread starter Racer283
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Yeah, which means the thing we talked about is on indefinite hold, then?

At the very least, I want to hold off GT7 COTW until the lobbies become somewhat functional. Does anyone have an issue with this?
No issues for me personally, considering I’d rather wait till it’s functional rather than trying to fight it every week and burn people out from continuing with it.

After been part of COTW since early 2014, I’ll be damned if I’m gonna let this debacle kill this group off. :irked:
 
It's got a rear mid mounted NA V8 going through a 6 speed manual gearbox powering the rear wheels. It is everything critics of the Corvette and the current GT say they want, and it's made in 2005. Sporting a handsomely retro look of its own, does the 2006 Ford GT prove that everything in the past was indeed better?


I can't speak of the general vibe in our weekly lobby as I wasn't there this week, but me personally, I find that driving the 2006 Ford GT is tiring.

The most apparent thing, and the thing that stayed the most prominent throughout my few test drives with the GT is the front end of the car feels rather floaty. Everything you attempt with the car, the front end will always be the limiting factor, and you'll be wrestling it at every turn, literally and figuratively. Mind you, this is a RMR car with 550HP (410kW) we're talking about here!


Braking for a corner, you have to slowly ease into the brake pedal to coax some neutrality back into the front end if the car is off neutral, such as when approaching the Andretti Hairpin of Laguna Seca—the car does squirm around quite a bit, after all. It's not quite pony car perilous, but it's not exactly 911 GT3 levels of tight, either. It forces drivers to be cognizant of where the weight of the car is at all times, and most importantly, to be gentle with it: slamming on the brakes like you would a racecar just causes the default Sport Hard tyres to start squealing at an alarming volume, massively elongating stopping distances even with ABS at default. I'd time travel into the future to buy the car to show you exactly what tyres it's supposed to come default with, along with its weight distribution, but the economy of the future has gone entirely down the crapper, and the world in its entirety with it. Don't blame me, blame human incompetence, greed, and divine karma.


cough Anyway, turn the GT into a corner, and you have to be intimately familiar with the exact whereabouts of the circumference of the front tyres' friction circles and be right on it at all times to get the front end to do anything, as the car feels completely nonchalant about turning unless they've weight over the front. The car's nose may not be heavy, per se, but it can feel incredibly inert without the right driving techniques. Even when powering out of a corner, throttle modulation is entirely for ensuring that the car doesn't understeer off the track and not at all for keeping the rear end in check. Certainly, there's more than enough power to break out the rear end shod with the same rubbish compound if you wish, as Vic will happily demonstrate to you, but if you're aiming for a fast lap, the rears will always be quite quiet. It simply isn't a car that is wont to slide, nor does it incentivise or reward drivers for doing so.

Thanks for your invaluable contribution every week to our club, Vic.

The mostly unwilling front end combined with its heavy steering makes the Ford GT is a proper workout to wrangle around a track, hence why I said it was tiring in the second paragraph. I could already feel my body hotting up and starting to sweat after just three laps of the relatively short Laguna Seca Raceway, and I really do wish it had a quicker steering rack (or god forbid me saying, a lighter steering) to help with that issue. Well, that, or a suspension setup that is just a tad rowdier, playful, with a bit of bite and knife edge to it to help it rotate into apexes. I get that there are barely more than 4,000 of these cars ever produced, each costing 145,000 USD when new in 2005 money, and thus no one wants the car to behave with that playful knife edge. It's just that, in the context of a video game, it's a bit... dull to drive as a result, especially when the car's famously delicious steering feel is completely lost in Gran Turismo.


Even though it's a powerful American V8, the driving experience of the GT really doesn't at all feel American to me. You have to be so clinical and measured in how you drive the car, setting it up for corners early and being technical with where you put weight on the car—a far cry from the slop- I mean, soft, showy, and explosive drives that I've come to associate with American cars. The engine is the one part of the car that feels properly American: ample low end torque, super satisfying to wring for every last rpm it can muster, and sounds properly mental throughout. And the styling of the car... ooh! Now THIS is how you do nostalgia in the modern day! Chef's kiss!


The Ford GT is a very unique car not just because it's a celebration of the company's centennium, not just because of who has owned one, but also because of how it drives. I daresay no American car drives quite like it, maybe not even the C8 Corvette, and certainly not its more modern counterpart. Having been put through some of the most prized pony cars of America's heyday, I can't agree at all that everything in the past is always better, but the 2005 Ford GT I think sits squarely in that sweet spot between the rowdy past and the sanitised future.

I just hope COTW has a better future.
 
A current list of all not yet used cars for COTW:

ALFA ROMEO (3)
4C Launch Edition 2014 (N200)
Giulia TZ2 Carrozzata da Zagato CN.AR750106 1965 (Gr.X)
MiTo 1.4 T Sport 2009 (N200)

Alpine (3)
Vision Gran Turismo 2017 (Gr.1)
Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)
Vision Gran Turismo Race Mode (Gr.X)

ASTON MARTIN (5)
DB3S CN.1 1953 (Gr.X)
DB11 2016 (N600)
DP-100 Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)
Vantage Gr.4 (Gr.4)
Vulcan 2016 (N800)

AUDI (8)
R8 LMS Audi Team Sport WRT 2015 (Gr.3)
R18 TDI Audi Team Sport Joest 2011 (Gr.1)
R18 TDI Le Mans 2011 (Gr.1)
R18 e-tron 2016 (Gr.1)
Sport quattro S1 Pikes Peak 1987 (Gr.B)
TT Cup 2016 (Gr.4)
TTS Coupe 2014 (N300)
Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.1)

BMW (4)
M4 Coupe 2014 (N400)
M4 Safety Car (Gr.X)
M6 GT3 Walkenhorst Motorsport 2016 (Gr.3)
M6 GT3 M Power Livery 2016 (Gr.3)

BUGATTI (2)
Vision Gran Turismo Gr.1 (Gr.1)
Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)

CHEVROLET (1)
Corvette Stingray Race Concept (C2) 1959 (Gr.X)

CITROËN (1)
GT by Citroen Gr.4 (Gr.4)

DODGE (8)
Charger SRT Hellcat Safety Car (N700)
SRT Tomahawk VGT Gr.1 (Gr.1)
SRT Tomahawk VGT Racing (Gr.X)
SRT Tomahawk VGT Street (Gr.X)
SRT Tomahawk VGT Technology (Gr.X)
Viper Gr.4 (Gr.4)
Viper SRT10 Coupe 2006 (N500)
Viper SRT GT3-R 2015 (Gr.3)

FERRARI (4)
250 GT Berlinetta passo corto CN.2521 1961 (N300)
250 GTO CN.3729GT 1962 (Gr.X)
458 Italia 2009 (N600)
Dino 246GT 1971 (N200)

FORD (5)
GT LM Spec II Test Car (Gr.3)
Mustang Gr.3 Road Car (N500)
Mustang Gr.B Rally Car (Gr.B)
Mustang GT Premium Fastback 2015 (N400)
Mustang Mach 1 1971 (N300)

GRAN TURISMO (4)
Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo (N600)
Red Bull X2014 Standard 2014 (Gr.X)
Red Bull X2014 Junior 2014 (Gr.X)
Red Bull X2019 Competition (Gr.X)

HONDA (4)
NSX Gr.3 (Gr.3)
NSX Gr.4 (Gr.4)
S800 1966 (N100)
Sports Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)

HYUNDAI (4)
Genesis Gr.3 (Gr.3)
Genesis Gr.4 (Gr.4)
N 2025 Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.1)
N 2025 Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)

INFINITI (1)
Concept Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)

JAGUAR (6)
D-Type 1954 (Gr.X)
E-Type Coupe 1961 (N300)
F-Type Gr.4 (Gr.4)
XJ13 1966 (Gr.X)
XJR-9 1988 (Gr.1)
Vision Gran Turismo Coupe (Gr.X)

KTM (1)
X-BOW R 2012 (N300)

LAMBORGHINI (6)
Aventador LP700-4 2011 (N700)
Aventador LP750-4 Superveloce 2015 (N800)
Countach LP400 1974 (N400)
Huracan Gr.4 (Gr.4)
Huracan LP610-4 2015 (N600)
Miura P400 Bertone Prototype CN.0706 1967 (N400)

LEXUS (4)
LC500 2017 (N500)
LF-LC GT Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)
RC F au Tom's 2016 (Gr.2)
RC F Gr.4 (Gr.4)

MAZDA (4)
Atenza Gr.3 Road Car (N500)
Atenza Gr.4 (Gr.4)
Atenza Sedan XD L Package 2015 (N200)
LM55 Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)

MCLAREN (4)
650S GT3 2015 (Gr.3)
MP4-12c 2010 (N600)
Ultimate Vision Gran Turismo Gr.1 (Gr.1)
Ultimate Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)

MERCEDES-BENZ (7)
A45 AMG 4MATIC 2013 (N400)
AMG F1 W08 EQ Power+ (Gr.X)
AMG F1 W08 EQ Power+ Color Variation (Gr.X)
AMG Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)
AMG Vision Gran Turismo LH Edition (Gr.X)
AMG Vision Gran Turismo Racing Series (Gr.X)
Sauber C9 1989 (Gr.1)

MINI (2)
Cooper S 2005 (N200)
Clubman Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)

MITSUBISHI (4)
Lancer Evolution IV GSR 1996 (N300)
Lancer Evolution Final Edition Gr.3 (Gr.3)
Lancer Evolution Final Edition Gr.B Rally Car (Gr.B)
Lancer Evolution Final Edition Gr.B Road Car (N500)

NISSAN (10)
Concept 2020 Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)
Fairlady Z Version S 2007 (N300)
GT-R Gr.B Rally Car (Gr.B)
GT-R Motul Autech 2016 (Gr.2)
GT-R Premium Edition 2017 (N600)
GT-R Safety Car (Gr.X)
GT-R Xanavi Nismo (Gr.2)
R92CP 1992 (Gr.1)
Skyline GT-R V-spec (R33) 1997 (N300)
Skyline GT-R V-spec II Nür (R34) 2002 (N300)

PEUGEOT (8)
208 GTI by Peugeot Sport 2014 (N200)
908 HDI FAP Team Peugeot Total 2010 (Gr.1)
RCZ Gr.3 Road Car (N500)
RCZ Gr.4 (Gr.4)
RCZ Gr.B Rally Car (Gr.B)
L500R Hybrid Vision Gran Turismo 2017 (Gr.X)
L750R Hybrid Vision Gran Turismo 2017 (Gr.1)
Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)

PORSCHE (2)
911 GT3 (997) 2008 (N400)
962C 1988 (Gr.1)

RENAULT SPORT (4)
Clio RS 220 EDC Trophy 2015 (N200)
Clio RS 220 EDC Trophy 2016 (N200)
Megane RS Trophy 2011 Safety Car (N300)
R.S.01 GT3 2016 (Gr.3)

SHELBY (1)
Cobra Daytona Coupe 1964 (Gr.X)

SUBARU (6)
BRZ S 2015 (N200)
BRZ Falken Tire/Turn 14 Distribution 2017 (Gr.X)
Impreza Coupe WRX Type R STi Version VI 1999 (N300)
WRX Gr.3 (Gr.3)
WRX Gr.B (Gr.B)
WRX STI Type S 2014 (N300)

TESLA (1)
Model S Signature Performance 2012 (Gr.X)

TOYOTA (13)
86 Gr.4 (Gr.4)
86 Gr.B Rally Car (Gr.B)
86 GRMN 2016 (N200)
86 GT 2015 (N200)
86 GT Limited 2016 (N200)
Crown Athlete G Safety Car (N300)
FT-1 (Gr.X)
FT-1 Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)
FT-1 Vision Gran Turismo Gr.3 (Gr.3)
GR Supra Racing Concept (Gr.3)
GR Supra RZ 2020 (N400)
TS030 Hybrid 2012 (Gr.1)
Tundra TRD Pro 2019 (N400)

VOLKSWAGEN (5)
1200 1966 (N100)
Scirocco Gr.4 (Gr.4)
Golf VII GTI 2014 (N200)
GTI Roadster Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.X)
GTI Vision Gran Turismo Gr.3 (Gr.3)
 
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Any person in the car world knowns about this car or had posters of this car hanging in their bedroom. This car has many iterations show up through out the Fast and Furious franchise and was Brian O'Connors car. This week we are taking a look at the Nissan Skyline R34 GTR '02. This weeks car is chosen by @05XR8

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The king of the Japanese sports car (together with the NSX :P). I was not dissapointed with it for sure. Looks, sound, handling, all great! Driven stock on hard sport tyres without any driving aids, except ABS. First lap in third person view, second one in cockpit view and third one in cinematic replay view. All driven laps are the same lap. I managed a 07.53.002 with it.

Nordschleife rivals comparison:




Tsukuba rivals comparison:

 
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Nordschleife hot lap with stock LP400 07.36.733

Lol the worst handling car of the game, next to the Infinity VGT, have fun guys. lel. This car is INSANE! I thought the 512BB was hard to drive at the limit, hooo boy was I wrong! T'was a wild lap, so much I can tell! The Countach is the very definition of floaty and oversteery. I didn't manage a single clean lap in 2h. My wrist hurts. But it was fun. I still love it because Lamborghini is my favourite car manufacturer. The desing of this thing is timeless, the sound is amazing, such a classic! Driven stock on hard sport tyres without any driving aids, except ABS. First lap in third person view, second one in cockpit view and third one in cinematic replay view. All driven laps are the same lap.

Nordschleife rivals comparison:



Tsukuba rivals comparison 1:



Tsukuba rivals comparison 2:



Verdict: sleeper because it's actually faster, than the 25th anniversary, but FAR harder to control though.
 
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I had aspirations of a couple new short stories, a few plot points, a couple twists, and maybe a new character or two. But not unlike my presence in our weekly COTW meets, I'm nothing if not.... unreliable. Excuses aplenty? Sure, I have a few. As Gran Turismo's most popular youtube.com-er Super GT once said; "if you're a racer and you don't have any excuses.....like..... what are you even doing?"

So here we go, in attempt to give a shotgun style review of the various cars I tested throughout GTS, complete with a catalogue of unused photos.

20220120002406.jpg



The 1967 Chevy Nova (A2B part two) - sorta


I can't believe it took Square 2 years to finally figure out what American Muscle is all about. You see, life in America was much different than the rest of the modern world in the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's. We played baseball. We played real man's football. We ate apple pie. We put men on the moon. We bailed the world out of wars (yea, yea, yea... Vietnam was a bit of a chit show...but at least we got one of the world's best movie scenes by one of the world's best actors out of it). And yes, we built very pedestrian looking cars meant to do very pedestrian tasks. But like peeling back an onion, or taking a layer of skin off your knee, below the epidermis.... lies the beast within. Sure, I'll concede that these cars didn't turn very well. But they weren't exactly advertised as canyon-runners either. There's a series on the history channel that I recommend to every car enthusiast. This docu-series describes the history of the automobile in America, and of particular interest was how Muscle Car culture in America came about. Say what you want about these behemoths handling like a hobo's overloaded shopping cart, because its mostly true. But the fact of the matter is that the 1970 Nissan GTR wouldn't have been anything without a 1966 Ford Falcon or the aforementioned shoebox Nova to draw inspiration from.


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Of the 62'-67 shoebox Nova's, a 1962 (Chevy II) is my favorite vintage. Growing up in Santa Clarita, California; you were either a 4x4 guy, or a muscle car guy. Being that I had to pay my own insurance, gas and car payment.... a muscle car wasn't in the cards for me. What I ended up with was a Jeep; but more on the cars that I could have had for my first car in a later review. One of my buddies had a 62' with a blown 327 in it. Compared to the big block Chevelle's that were seen frequently at street races in Valencia, Kevin's Chevy II sounded like a Black Cat amongst C-4. But it was then, 22 years ago that I learned size doesn't matter (something I still try to convince the Missus to this day!). A nova didn't need but a 4 link, a ford 9" (😩), a fuel cell and battery in the back, and a mild small block up front..... and you had a legitimate 12 second car!!!



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We here at COTW are blessed with a lot of talented people. Great racers. Great reviewers. Great writers. Great Flakes.

But I'll leave you with this. If @Vic Reign93 is our Leonidas, Esther our Daria, Square our Tiff Needell, and your's truly... our Karl Pilkington, then I recommend if ever given the chance, to sit in a purpose built muscle car that has one sole intention. To get from pain A to Point B, in the fastest and scariest way possible. It'll change your life.

If being inside this beast doesn't make Square poop his pants or weep in joy, then I give up!!





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The GT.3 Ferrari 458



Between my four Gran Turismo Sport accounts, I have more hours on this car than any other car combined. Its not even close. Like a punching bag in an abusive relationship, I spent hour after agonizing hour wondering if our irreconcilable differences were my fault. Everything she asked for, I gave her. She wanted me stronger; I took steroids. She wanted me taller; I wore Stilletos. She wanted a gimp; I licked her Stilleto. I could write pages about her. I could fill diaries with my pathetic rollercoaster emotions. I could run headfirst into a freight train, and it still wouldn't be enough. I have a lot to say about this girl. But some stories are best left untold.... at least, until we test her again.



20220120002755.jpg


I love you.....I hate you....but I love you.
No....you're right. I hate myself. I'm sorry








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McLaren P1




This is what happens when you put an F1 motor into a chassis that has Gr.3 Aero and Drum brakes. A car too beautiful, and too fast for its own good. No matter what I did, no matter how much power I took out of it, HE was too much.



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Watch me understeer off Eau Rouge despite starting to brake last year!!






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Watch me become a Kamikaze Pilot at Fuji!!










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Even at 1/100,000th of a second, I still missed the finish line shot











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The Ferrari F-40




What really, can be said about the Ferrari F-40. Well, a lot actually. Waaaaaay more than I'm going to say here. When this car eventually comes up in COTWGT7, I promise I will spill my guts about this masterpiece. I just..... can't put words to this car. In my opinion, this is the best Ferrari by far. Maybe even the best car ever. Seriously. This car is the absolute pinnacle of the automobile, before sue-happy lawyers got involved. We will never be able to buy a street legal car like this again.






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She demands admiration.





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She demands attention.










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She commands respect.






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She inspires envy.









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I would ask to lick her stiletto, and she would scold me for even inquiring..... but I would be grateful that she even took the time to acknowledge my presence.







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She is everything...
 

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dudes...

I made an edit and 1/2 of my review just deleted.


I'm so defeated!!!!


EDIT!!!!!!

I GOT IT BACK!!! SOMEHOW!!
 
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"Godzilla". "The forbidden fruit". "The Eastern God of War". "The best car EVARGH". The fifth generation Nissan Skyline GT-R, the R34, is not short of well–earned nicknames. It has an engine that can handle four digit horsepower figures on stock internals if the 8–year old mechanics on the internet are to be believed, and unlike the Supra, it's AWD system means it can actually put the power down. And yet somehow, that didn't stop people from drifting it. The sound of its twin turbo RB26DETT Inline–6 engine was the anthem of many a budding enthusiast in the 90s, shaping an entire generation of us, having starred in games and films such as Gran Turismo and Fast and Furious. It really does beg the question, doesn't it? "It's the R34 GT-R. What more needs to be said about it?"


Ahh, but you see, the GT-R has earned all those credentials when heavily modified, and in a feeble attempt to actually sound my age, "we don't do that here" in Car of the Week. With the endless tuning potential of the R34, and the resultant rarity of bone stock examples, one might think that there's as much point in reviewing a bone stock R34 as there is reviewing the earphones that came with your phone, simply because they're just a formality that don't hold a candle to what's available for a reasonable price outside. The wheels, tyres, exhaust, chip, and oil filter are all stuff on a normal GT-R that gets thrown out in the same arm swing as the plastic seat covers upon the purchase. That means that this unassuming box of a sedan turned into a coupé comes kneecapped from the factory with just 276HP to haul around all of its 1,560kg (3,439lbs), and it's going up against other 276HP sports cars that are lighter and more focused, such as the NA2 NSX-R and FD RX-7. So how's an honest, hard working Godzilla supposed to compete in this climate?


Why, by lying and cheating, of course. As measured by the game, the R34 in its final iteration, the V • spec II Nür, makes a stonking 336HP (250kW) as it sits in factory fresh guise, which is heads and shoulders above the similarly lying and cheating RX-7 and NSX, neither of which even cracks 300HP. How Nissan could legally get away with printing 280PS on the car's brochures when the car is making well over 20% more power, I will never know. Sure, the R34's power–to–mass ratio might still be sagging behind its fellow 2002 compatriots, but its AWD ensures that it will at least out launch them, and still still out–accelerate the poor 5–speed FD even after that. While I've complained that the R32's drivetrain feels like it was set up from the factory to have twice its power, what with its nonexistent high rev range performance and needlessly long gearing, I have no such complaints whatsoever in the 6 speed R34. Yes, it still requires short shifting at about 500rpm below its redline, but that still means that you're shifting the car at a VTEC and Rotary rivaling 8,000rpm!


At this point, it would be a fair assumption to make that the R34 keeps up with its domestic competition via sheer power alone, but it'd also be a wrong one to make. Take the R34 around nefariously twisty mountain roads, and it will quickly make you exhibit speed that you never thought you had the balls for. While RWD sports cars of the era are tail happy, moody, no holds barred bar fights when confronted with bumps, patches of low traction, or adverse camber, the R34 simply wafts past these inconveniences as though a hovercraft. Where RWD cars are asking you to be careful, cognizant, and be ready to lift and correct in case you roll over a dry leaf on the track, the R34 is instead asking of you to relax and trust that everything's going to be okay. My favourite test track, Bathurst, feels like an entirely different stretch of asphalt in the R34 than it does a pure, raw, barbaric RWD sports car. What this translates to is that the R34 has much more adaptability and "real world" speed, even in the context of a video game, as I can set much more consistent lap times in an R34 than most other cars, and I'm including my all–time favourite FD RX-7 with a combined 20,000 track kilometres in that statement.


But, surely a soft suspension setup on a car with a lopsided 57/43 F/R weight distribution would mean that the R34 would become easily unhinged, especially under hard braking afforded by its factory Brembo brakes and 245 section Sport Hard tyres? Well, the disproportionate weight balance of the front heavy car means that the front tyres of the car always feels more capable and does more work despite being of the same size as those of the rear, which can sometimes make the car feel and drive as though an FF, wherein the front wheels dictate everything and the rears simply follow along with no opinion nor objection. Under hard braking and steering however, it's very possible—easy, even—to get the unladen rear end of the car to swing out.

And that's when you unveil the true cornering prowess of the Skyline GT-R.


Here's the thing: the game and the car's brochure may both state that the R34 is an AWD car, and that's because they have to, as it's technically correct. However, to get the most out of an R34, you must drive it as though a front heavy FR car that it is most of the time, sliding it slightly into corners to help rotate it to meet an apex to allow for the most liberal of power administration out of the corner. With that slip angle and all of the road's width, just floor the throttle pedal, and revel in amazement as the car's part–time AWD system hooks up the front tyres, giving the car the traction to full throttle out of most corners while magically ballet dancing on the tightrope that divides grip and slip. What the AWD system does is that it blends the surefootedness of an AWD and the easiness to correct of an FF to help drivers achieve the fastest RWD cornering techniques easily and consistently for as long as the poor front tyres will last, and it still amazes me how the ATTESA-ETS seems to know EXACTLY how much torque to give to the front wheels to balance the understeer up front with the oversteer in the rear! I usually detest these electronic gimmicks in cars because I either don't understand how they work, or they hinder more than help. Nissan engineers on the other hand, have somehow made a system that is easily understood and intuitive to exploit, and it's a system that debuted in 1989!


One might think that modifying a Skyline GT-R is as customary and necessary as removing the plastic covering of the seats of a new car. After all, with it being hobbled just so scrutineers could feasibly turn the other cheek when Nissan lied about having only 276HP due to a Gentlemen's Agreement between Japanese car manufacturers at the time, one might argue that putting a boost controller and a freer flowing exhaust on it is simply putting the finishing touches on the car, or even correcting it, and there are several shops in Japan or overseas that will help you do that and more. But, I think its reputation for being a tuner darling packed with potential waiting to be realised has completely clouded what an amazingly cohesive and entertaining drive it can provide straight from Nissan's Tochigi Plant. As the last and ultimate Skyline GT-R produced near the end of the infamous "276HP era" of Japanese cars, the 2002 Skyline GT-R V • spec II Nür is one of the brightest shining examples of what JDM cars of that era are all about: absent the power to use as a crush against the opposition, everything else has to be refined to a meticulous degree to edge out rivals with the same 276HP power restriction, and perhaps there's no better example of this than the GT-R, the heaviest among its sports car rivals and thus the one with the worst power–to–mass ratio. Every component of the car, every factor of the driving experience, has been balanced with respect to each other so finely that it almost feels a shame to tune it. Add more power to it, and inevitably you will hit a point where you'll need gripper tyres, stiffer suspension, and thus slowly that meticulously balanced cohesiveness unravels, and oftentimes you'll find that, despite the car going faster, it becomes a worse whole that isn't as enjoyable to drive.


What is a stock Skyline GT-R good for then, if it doesn't spit flames and put down four digit power figures on the dyno like it does in the video games and movies? Why, I'd argue it's good for everything: drag, drift, time attacks, or even grocery runs. It's everything anyone can possibly want in a sports car, even—or especially—in stock guise. One might even argue that, absent a strict definition of what a "perfect" car should be, have, and do, the R34 is quite a strong contender for the title of perfection. If there's anything left to be said about the R34, it's that it's the Rule 34 of cars—it's borderline pornographic with how good it is.

 
I can already hear, somewhere in the distance, Square's keyboard crying out in agony.
"Godzilla". "The forbidden fruit". "The Eastern God of War". "The best car EVARGH". The fifth generation Nissan Skyline GT-R, the R34, is not short of well–earned nicknames. It has an engine that can handle four digit horsepower figures on stock internals if the 8–year old mechanics on the internet are to be believed, and unlike the Supra, it's AWD system means it can actually put the power down. And yet somehow, that didn't stop people from drifting it. The sound of its twin turbo RB26DETT Inline–6 engine was the anthem of many a budding enthusiast in the 90s, shaping an entire generation of us, having starred in games and films such as Gran Turismo and Fast and Furious. It really does beg the question, doesn't it? "It's the R34 GT-R. What more needs to be said about it?"


Ahh, but you see, the GT-R has earned all those credentials when heavily modified, and in a feeble attempt to actually sound my age, "we don't do that here" in Car of the Week. With the endless tuning potential of the R34, and the resultant rarity of bone stock examples, one might think that there's as much point in reviewing a bone stock R34 as there is reviewing the earphones that came with your phone, simply because they're just a formality that don't hold a candle to what's available for a reasonable price outside. The wheels, tyres, exhaust, chip, and oil filter are all stuff on a normal GT-R that gets thrown out in the same arm swing as the plastic seat covers upon the purchase. That means that this unassuming box of a sedan turned into a coupé comes kneecapped from the factory with just 276HP to haul around all of its 1,560kg (3,439lbs), and it's going up against other 276HP sports cars that are lighter and more focused, such as the NA2 NSX-R and FD RX-7. So how's an honest, hard working Godzilla supposed to compete in this climate?


Why, by lying and cheating, of course. As measured by the game, the R34 in its final iteration, the V • spec II Nür, makes a stonking 336HP (250kW) as it sits in factory fresh guise, which is heads and shoulders above the similarly lying and cheating RX-7 and NSX, neither of which even cracks 300HP. How Nissan could legally get away with printing 280PS on the car's brochures when the car is making well over 20% more power, I will never know. Sure, the R34's power–to–mass ratio might still be sagging behind its fellow 2002 compatriots, but its AWD ensures that it will at least out launch them, and still still out–accelerate the poor 5–speed FD even after that. While I've complained that the R32's drivetrain feels like it was set up from the factory to have twice its power, what with its nonexistent high rev range performance and needlessly long gearing, I have no such complaints whatsoever in the 6 speed R34. Yes, it still requires short shifting at about 500rpm below its redline, but that still means that you're shifting the car at a VTEC and Rotary rivaling 8,000rpm!


At this point, it would be a fair assumption to make that the R34 keeps up with its domestic competition via sheer power alone, but it'd also be a wrong one to make. Take the R34 around nefariously twisty mountain roads, and it will quickly make you exhibit speed that you never thought you had the balls for. While RWD sports cars of the era are tail happy, moody, no holds barred bar fights when confronted with bumps, patches of low traction, or adverse camber, the R34 simply wafts past these inconveniences as though a hovercraft. Where RWD cars are asking you to be careful, cognizant, and be ready to lift and correct in case you roll over a dry leaf on the track, the R34 is instead asking of you to relax and trust that everything's going to be okay. My favourite test track, Bathurst, feels like an entirely different stretch of asphalt in the R34 than it does a pure, raw, barbaric RWD sports car. What this translates to is that the R34 has much more adaptability and "real world" speed, even in the context of a video game, as I can set much more consistent lap times in an R34 than most other cars, and I'm including my all–time favourite FD RX-7 with a combined 20,000 track kilometres in that statement.


But, surely a soft suspension setup on a car with a lopsided 57/43 F/R weight distribution would mean that the R34 would become easily unhinged, especially under hard braking afforded by its factory Brembo brakes and 245 section Sport Hard tyres? Well, the disproportionate weight balance of the front heavy car means that the front tyres of the car always feels more capable and does more work despite being of the same size as those of the rear, which can sometimes make the car feel and drive as though an FF, wherein the front wheels dictate everything and the rears simply follow along with no opinion nor objection. Under hard braking and steering however, it's very possible—easy, even—to get the unladen rear end of the car to swing out.

And that's when you unveil the true cornering prowess of the Skyline GT-R.


Here's the thing: the game and the car's brochure may both state that the R34 is an AWD car, and that's because they have to, as it's technically correct. However, to get the most out of an R34, you must drive it as though a front heavy FR car that it is most of the time, sliding it slightly into corners to help rotate it to meet an apex to allow for the most liberal of power administration out of the corner. With that slip angle and all of the road's width, just floor the throttle pedal, and revel in amazement as the car's part–time AWD system hooks up the front tyres, giving the car the traction to full throttle out of most corners while magically ballet dancing on the tightrope that divides grip and slip. What the AWD system does is that it blends the surefootedness of an AWD and the easiness to correct of an FF to help drivers achieve the fastest RWD cornering techniques easily and consistently for as long as the poor front tyres will last, and it still amazes me how the ATTESA-ETS seems to know EXACTLY how much torque to give to the front wheels to balance the understeer up front with the oversteer in the rear! I usually detest these electronic gimmicks in cars because I either don't understand how they work, or they hinder more than help. Nissan engineers on the other hand, have somehow made a system that is easily understood and intuitive to exploit, and it's a system that debuted in 1989!


One might think that modifying a Skyline GT-R is as customary and necessary as removing the plastic covering of the seats of a new car. After all, with it being hobbled just so scrutineers could feasibly turn the other cheek when Nissan lied about having only 276HP due to a Gentlemen's Agreement between Japanese car manufacturers at the time, one might argue that putting a boost controller and a freer flowing exhaust on it is simply putting the finishing touches on the car, or even correcting it, and there are several shops in Japan or overseas that will help you do that and more. But, I think its reputation for being a tuner darling packed with potential waiting to be realised has completely clouded what an amazingly cohesive and entertaining drive it can provide straight from Nissan's Tochigi Plant. As the last and ultimate Skyline GT-R produced near the end of the infamous "276HP era" of Japanese cars, the 2002 Skyline GT-R V • spec II Nür is one of the brightest shining examples of what JDM cars of that era are all about: absent the power to use as a crush against the opposition, everything else has to be refined to a meticulous degree to edge out rivals with the same 276HP power restriction, and perhaps there's no better example of this than the GT-R, the heaviest among its sports car rivals and thus the one with the worst power–to–mass ratio. Every component of the car, every factor of the driving experience, has been balanced with respect to each other so finely that it almost feels a shame to tune it. Add more power to it, and inevitably you will hit a point where you'll need gripper tyres, stiffer suspension, and thus slowly that meticulously balanced cohesiveness unravels, and oftentimes you'll find that, despite the car going faster, it becomes a worse whole that isn't as enjoyable to drive.


What is a stock Skyline GT-R good for then, if it doesn't spit flames and put down four digit power figures on the dyno like it does in the video games and movies? Why, I'd argue it's good for everything: drag, drift, time attacks, or even grocery runs. It's everything anyone can possibly want in a sports car, even—or especially—in stock guise. One might even argue that, absent a strict definition of what a "perfect" car should be, have, and do, the R34 is quite a strong contender for the title of perfection. If there's anything left to be said about the R34, it's that it's the Rule 34 of cars—it's borderline pornographic with how good it is.

Drex absolutely called it, haha. Excellent review my friend.
 
Did a 05.34.885 with it on the Nords stock with RH tyres, no TCS or any other driving aids, except ABS. That makes it the 5th fastest Gr.1 car overall, the 3rd fastest real life Gr.1 car and the 15th fastest car of the entire game overall. Not bad indeed...Could be my favourite Gr. 1 car overall, closely followed by the R92C, Peugeot FAP HDI and the 787B.

Verdict: As much as I love it and think it's brilliant, I'll have to rate it as neutral, as it does what it is ought to do: being an awesome, overpowered 80s LeMans beast.
 
There and Back Again
389 times…

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Well, seeing as I'm bored and nobody seems to care about discussing the car from this (last) week yet, I thought I'd give it a go. It's been a while since I've booted up GT Sport, aside from the occasional data transfer to GT7, so I was delighted to see the car being focused on this week is none other than the Mercedes C9 Group C car. Wait, was it the Mercedes-Sauber C9, or was it the Sauber-Mercedes C9? Well either way it's got a Mercedes badge on it, it won a very famous race and that makes it quite a historic car that's worth discussing. So, let's dive a bit deeper into the Mercedes-Sauber C9, one of the finest examples of a prototype endurance racing car ever constructed.

So, auto racing. It's a sport that many outsiders of these events would consider pretty boring or uninteresting. You watch a car go around a circle a few times and the people driving the cars aren't really doing any work, right? Dead wrong! Doubly so for endurance racing like the 24 Hour of Le Mans. This race has been run ever since 1923 and lasts a full day in some of the fastest machinery known to man, the Le Mans Prototype. Drivers of this race must be subjected to strong G-forces produced by these incredible cars for hours on end. This test of endurance makes these drivers true athletes in every sense of the word!

Despite racing being a true test of focus and endurance, it is also a dangerous profession. A tragic accident in 1955 known as the "Le Mans Disaster" was a massive crash involving one of Mercedes' top-flight 300 SLR Roadsters and saw the deaths of the driver, Pierre Levegh, as well as dozens of spectators. This tragedy caused Mercedes to abandon motorsports for decades until the 1980s, and highlighted just how dangerous and risky motorsports was, with virtually no safety features on the cars or precautions made to protect spectators who basically lined the tracks, which were also narrow public roads with no fencing. It was clear that as technology improved and cars became faster, serious changes had to be made.​

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As mentioned previously, that accident caused Mercedes to swear off motorsports until the mid to late 1980s. By this time, racing at Le Mans had switched from primarily road-based sports cars to purpose-built "prototype" racing cars. These regulations, known as Group C, featured cars with a heavy emphasis on aerodynamic efficiency and brutal power. As light as a feather, putting down upwards of 800 horsepower to the rear wheels only, and with sleek bodies that cut through the air, they were the most advanced racing cars of their time. These cars were so fast, they could even reach speeds of 400 kilometers per hour on Le Mans' famous Mulsanne Straight. Although these cars were far faster than previous decades, they were also much safer due to more advanced materials, grippier and more predictable handling, as well as changes made to racing circuits over the decades to improve safety such as widening of tracks, run-off area, crash fencing and (most importantly) moving spectators away from the side of the road.

Mercedes, in order to return to top-level racing of the era, took a controlling stake in Swedish motorsports team Sauber who were fielding their C5 Group C prototype. After several revisions, the car evolved into the Mercedes-Sauber C9 of 1989 we know now. Using their years of experience together since the C8 in 1985, and determination to claim victory after decades of absence, the C9 was born.

Like most Group C cars, the C9 is made to conform to a tight set of regulations to ensure safety and high performance. This leads to a very smooth, yet generic silhouette characteristic of these prototypes. Many of us know these cars not because of their styling relative to their road car cousins, but because their strong performances brought recognition to the brands which fielded them. To someone who doesn't know much about racing, it would be as hard to tell Group C cars apart as it is for Formula 1 cars. Despite this, the car's silhouette is shaped like a wedge designed to cut cleanly through the air, with various utilitarian ducts and intakes as needed. The large rear wing provides hundreds of kilos of downforce at top speed, ensuring lightning-quick, and most importantly, safe, cornering characteristics.

Most impressive about the C9, however, is the engine. The 5-litre M119 twin-turbo V8 was Mercedes' silver bullet (haha) against the competition for the Sauber team. This engine was powerful enough, at 800 horsepower, to propel the C9 to a top speed (in Le Mans trim) of 400 km/h. This makes the car one of the fastest to ever grace the Le Mans circuit. This engine was so good, in fact, it was dropped directly into the CLK-LM GT1 car a decade later and effectively killed the entire GT1 class during its prime because it locked down the competition, winning every race of the year (besides Le Mans which was not part of the FIA GT Championship).

So, despite being blisteringly fast, the car was also much safer than its forefathers of decades prior. It also returned Mercedes their first win at Le Mans since 1952. Unfortunately, 1989 was also Mercedes' last win at the famous race, instead focusing their interests in the more recent decades on Formula One to which they've had tremendous success both with McLaren and as a solo team.

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The Mercedes-Sauber C9 was added to Gran Turismo Sport as part of update 1.19 in May of 2018, alongside other Group C legends, the Nissan R92CP and Jaguar XJR-9, and of course the Le Mans track itself. The car's return was highly celebrated by the community, but also was met with confusion over the car's inclusion in the modern Gr.1 class consisting of Le Mans Prototype LMP1 cars, along with VGT cars tuned to meet the specifications of late-2010s LMP cars. The disparity of performance between the much older Group C cars and newer LMP1 cars was obvious, with the Group C cars being much slower in the corners due to their still very strong but outdated aerodynamics.

However, one area where the Group C cars like the Sauber C9 shined was in the high-speed tracks where medium-speed bends weren't a big issue. Le Mans, in particular, was a real playground for the Group C cars and they even became the meta choice for some weeks due to the massive speed advantage they had over newer cars. It was in very specific situations like a race at Le Mans or Monza with no chicane that the M119 V8 really showed what it was capable of. No hybrid system, no DRS overtake button, just pure power letting you sail past all of the 2010's competition.

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Of course, all that power comes with a cost and in the slow speed corners the car can get pretty sketchy. The C9 really punishes drivers with a heavy right foot, with wheelspin coming all the way up to the top of 2nd gear at 190 km/h. In my experience, I found the car best to keep in second gear the whole race, not dipping down into 1st despite how long 2nd is. The engine makes plenty of torque so the more predictable power delivery is worth the slightly slower launch.

Now for the corners, I find the C9 to be quite a predictable car all things considered. You need to keep in mind that the car isn't capable of the cornering speeds that modern prototypes are pulling, so you need to lift in some long bends, but for the most part driving this car once you get some air rushing over the rear spoiler is not hard at all. You just need to be aware of the slow-speed cornering and high-speed cornering limits and the C9 is actually quite an easy car to handle. Just have some patience with the right foot and practice how much you can push the car to corner in high speed bends, and you'll do great. So, it has a bit of brutish power but it's not going to fight you constantly the whole time like the endurance cars of the 1950s would on skinny wire wheels with no aero. All things considered, it's a pretty easy ride befitting an endurance racer.

In general, the Mercedes-Sauber C9 is a very historic car that marked the return to motorsports of one of the world's most famous car brands. It took top honours doing what it was designed to do and showcased the increased performance and safety of modern motorsports while still being one of the quickest cars to ever grace the historic Le Mans race.​
 
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Arguably the most prestigious race in all of motorsports, the 24 Hours of Le Mans tends to make—or break—manufacturers and teams alike. After Mercedes had respectfully withdrawn from all forms of motorsport following the harrowing incident in 1955's 24 Hours of Le Mans, the Mercedes partnered Sauber C9 which won the very same race in 1989 may well be the single most important modern Mercedes in the company's history, transforming Mercedes overnight from shy to showy, making sure that they can look back at their history with as much pride and happiness as sorrow.


The core market share of Mercedes might not see much of a connection between their cars and the rear mid engined C9 though. After all, most Mercedes cars on the road are plush, well built, stable cruisers which happen to be silver in colour. Contort and crawl behind the wheel of the C9 however, and you'll find that many of those adjectives apply to it as well, just without the air con and leather... and a whole lot of noise. Point is, for a Group C racing car that has an as–tested top speed of 331km/h (205mph), the C9 behaves with stability and lack of drama throughout its vehement climb to said speed, remaining easy to control through the variety of corners and surfaces that the French village roads present. Much like the mid engined supercars of today with way too much power for anyone's good, the RMR C9 is set up so that whatever the corner or situation, it'll always be the front tyres that are the limiting factor from corner entry to exit, resulting in mild, slightly annoying, but easily correctable understeer in the worst of times.

...that is, once you shift into third or above.
Let's not mince words: the C9 is still packing a whopping 927HP (691kW) in Gran Turismo Sport, way more than the 530kW that Mercedes claim on their website, fed by a turbocharger that wheezes so loudly, it's almost like a backup singer trying to upstage the main star, all of which goes through well–aged tyres unfettered by traction control. We rely on a bevy of electronic nannies smarter than us to mitigate that recipe for disaster in cars today with way more power than anyone could ever use, none of which existed 30 years ago even in a Le Mans conquering car that fully utilises its 710HP for most of the race. Stuffed with over 1.5 bar (21.7psi) of boost at its peak, the 4,973cc M119HL V8 engine certainly wakes up with a furor when it comes on song at about 6,500rpm, and the turbo whistle when that happens is way more prominent an indicator than the tachometer staring you in the face. Corner exits out of Arnage or the Mulsanne Chicanes the car never had to deal with in 1989 then, need to be taken not only with a delicate and precise right foot, but also a keen ear, lest the rear mid mounted engine finds itself in the mood to overtake the ditz of a driver sitting in front of it. In Gran Turismo Sport, the non–linear throttle and overrated power makes the precise amount of go juice to give very difficult to gauge, but it's still markedly easier than trying to tame the less powerful car in Gran Turismo 7, where rear tyres have zero lateral grip. In either game and trim, it's not a car I'm very flirtatious with the limits of, and the car just somehow feels comfortable being underdriven like that at lower speed corners where the car has too much mechanical power and no aerodynamic grip.
Aerodynamic grip? Surprisingly for a car that in real life has set a new speed record of 400km/h (248mph) at la Sarthe during qualifying, the C9 has eye–watering levels of downforce despite its simplistic appearance, as does every other Group C car lumped into Gr.1. While not very apparent at la Sarthe, the C9 can take high speed corners at a rate which will cause inexperienced reviewers and drivers with bad force feedback to question reality itself when ran elsewhere, such as the newly renovated Trail Mountain Circuit in America. In saturated conditions, daring drivers will be eyeing 250km/h (155mph) on full wet tyres before the menacing Mercedes turns itself into a murderous merry–go–round. Don't ask me how I found that out.
Is the Sauber C9 the best Group C car for the odd Gr.1 race at Le Mans No Chicane? Is it competitive? Far be it from me, someone with no idea on how to drive high downforce cars, to tell you. I do distinctly remember that one rare time when Gran Turismo Sport made an effort to distinguish Group C from LMP1 though, hosting a Daily Race combo at Fuji with only the former category, which saw almost every driver opt for the C9 as though the namesake of Group C itself, which came as quite the surprise to me given how pokey it is out of technical low speed sections that comprises the last sector of Fuji almost entirely; I had thought that a NA machine like the XJR-9 or perhaps even the 787B, significantly lighter than everything else in the category, would be better suited for that particular combo. That the C9 became the firm, competitive favourite even when all factors seem to work against it then, I think is very telling of how good and competitive it is among its Group C compatriots, and should not be taken lightly under any circumstance, despite what logic may at first tell you.
That is to say, it's a car that needs to be driven instead of read or speculated about.
 
BIG NA V8 up front sending power to the rear through a manual 6 speed stick shift. If you've driven your share of Pony Cars, that basic recipe might sound as mandated and given as the Second Amendment. But what if we were to take an unassuming, off the shelf 2015 Mustang GT and stretch it out to pickup truck levels of width, give it side exit exhausts strategically placed to cook your thighs on every time you attempt to cross over the puffed out skirts, and give it springs stiffer than those on a 991 GT3... RS?


With springs set to 2.8Hz front and rear, not much separates the Mustang Gr.3 Road Car from the full blown race variant it homologates if you were to drive it down a Japanese Expressway... assuming you manage to squeeze through the vicegrip that are the toll gates unscathed. The engine that has been massaged into race spec for the Gr.3 car is dumped almost as–is into a road car; the power curves between the two cars being pixel for pixel identical to each other, with the only difference being 47 less HP at 502HP (374kW) in the "road" car. That means that the power curves become as sharp as the revised bonnet on the car, with just as many gaping holes in it as well. The low end torque ideal for highway passing that I had come to associate with a good Muscle Car has been entirely forsaken to focus all the ponies up top near its redline, uncorked in race trim to cut out at 8,000rpm. It's almost like driving a 5 Litre Rotary!

All this focus on track performance then, one should jolly well hope that it's all worth it when the Mustang can finally roam free on a racetrack.


Of course it isn't. Is this the first time you've read my reviews? It's called setting up expectations specifically just so you can betray them. Like the Mustang Gr.3 Road Car.

It starts out promising enough. The car's powertrain and suspension are both dizzyingly direct, responding the instant you twitch an extremity in your limbs. The racing brakes that the car comes standard with have a ferocious bite to them, chopping the lightened car down to speed quickly in conjunction to the added drag the body brings. As a result of all this, the Mustang can often feel some 200 kilos (441 pounds) lighter than its kerb mass of 1,500kg (3,307lbs), especially if you were to upgrade from the default Sport Hard tyres the car comes default with; the stiff suspension I daresay is set up to beg for racing slicks rather than suffer through street rubber. Remember, this thing has downforce and spring stiffness that exceed those of a hardcore 911, and so might be more prudent to think of this thing more like a FR track spec Porsche than anything a Mustang can reasonably feel like.


Turn in for a corner though, and you get a nostalgic combination of over and understeer that earlier Porsches are prone to as well, but for the opposite reason—The first thing I noticed was that the car is rather front heavy under trail braking, and booting up GT7 puts a figure to my misery, at 54:46 F:R. Not that I need much numbers to tell you the car has a bit of a challenging time diving for and nailing deeper apexes, such as the last corner of DT Seaside as an example, requiring drivers to set it up early for the corner rather than adjusting and adapting on the fly. On corner exits, the what feels like an anvil laden front end is prone to understeer on power, and the rear end, oversteer.


With the springs set to be stiffer than its stiffie for crowds, the Mustang G3RC fumbles and bumbles around even the microscopic shifts in elevation on a fictional, mirror–smooth circuit mid corner, almost as though this is the only trim of the sixth generation of Mustang to still come equipped with a solid rear axle, aiming for the crowds in the grandstands more than the road you point it at. The racecar stiff springs also unfortunately mean that the G3RC is also imbued with racecar like nervousness and snappiness without racecar levels of grip, requiring very quick and numerous corrections in a desperate fishtailing display before the car will consider your proposal of straightening out once it steps out on you. Compounded with the fact that it has a spikey power curve administered through GTS' notorious non–linear throttle, and the rear end stepping out on its driver is simply an inevitability when the car is pushed for a quick lap. I have never once felt comfortable being near the car's limits during race day as a result, much less have any semblance of fun while doing it. It's a stressful chore at best.


If you for some horse manure reason feel a compulsion to race fender to fender with your friends in a Mustang G3RC in spite of its snappy handling, then perhaps do it at a wide racetrack rather than on the public roads, counter–intuitively to what its name would suggest, because on the two lane wide Toukyo Central Loop, there is simply no passing possible with these widened cars, even if you have a pronounced pace advantage to the car in front of you. Case in point, Vic closed in a SECOND per lap on me around the mock C1 loop to sniff my diffuser with two laps to go, and despite me making little to no attempt to defend or block the driver I know to be faster than me due to my own discomfort behind the wheel, he couldn't get the pass done before the chequered flag was waved.

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It's rubbish for the public roads. It's rubbish for racing. It's even rubbish for time attacks; the aforementioned 991 GT3 RS is some fifteen seconds quicker around the Nordschleife than the Mustang G3RC in Alex's testing. At 300k Credits in GT7 or 5k Mileage Points in GTS, it even costs markedly more than said 911, meaning that the usual saving grace of muscle cars, the "bang for the buck" argument, doesn't even apply to the Mustang G3RC. I've racked my head all week to come up with something nice to say about the car so as not to come across as a vengeful asshole, but I genuinely can't think of anything nice to say about the car.

20220417004259 by XSquare StickIt, on Flickr
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