Cars rolling uphill when in neutral.

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Barso

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Barso
I know yhis game is claiming to be real in physics but I have found that in some places on suzuka and fuji when I stop the car it will magically start to roll uphill.
I am no Isaac Newton but surely the law of physics claim the car should roll down the hill.
I know this is a prologue but surely this error should not have gotten through the net.
Great to see what PD have the PS3 doing graphics wise but cannot see them sorting out the slowdown and screen tearing and adding damage without a downgrade though.
Loving the ability to watch the top ten races for each car on each track but please sort out the online PD.
 
Perhaps PD have simulated the Electric Brae...
 
Barso
I know yhis game is claiming to be real in physics but I have found that in some places on suzuka and fuji when I stop the car it will magically start to roll uphill.
I am no Isaac Newton but surely the law of physics claim the car should roll down the hill.
I know this is a prologue but surely this error should not have gotten through the net.
Great to see what PD have the PS3 doing graphics wise but cannot see them sorting out the slowdown and screen tearing and adding damage without a downgrade though.
Loving the ability to watch the top ten races for each car on each track but please sort out the online PD.
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Which part of Suzuka did you test this theory? and what equipment are you using? controller? or wheel and which wheel?
 
cars can also slide sidewards when you're holding still in the grass, especially when you start pushing the throttle and turning. And no, it's not because of wheelspin, cause that tcs that magically turns on when you hit the grass removes it completely.

Another thing I hate, is that shiny parts in the car can reflect that environment behind you. The F1 reflects everything in the display, and the silver logo in the GT concept reflects only bright things, like that yellow stripe on daytona. Even though they don't come close to being as ugly as the in cockpit shadows.

However, there's so much time left. I don't think PD will disappoint us in the end. Alone the heap of tracks and cars will really give the game a magnificent boost.
 
Barso
...I have found that in some places on suzuka and fuji when I stop the car it will magically start to roll uphill...
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What car?

Something I noticed in the Prologue demo was that cars equipped with automatic transmissions behave as such. Case in point the IS-F. It is only available with a slush box and behaves accordingly, even if you select manual mode. From a dead stop on a flat surface, the IS-F will crawl forward as an automatic should.
 
Yeah, IRL My Parent's (no, i'm not a kid, im just working on buying a SICK car) Jeep Grand Cherokee, and the 1500 both crawl w/o throttle in D. They will crawl up hill if its got a high enough idle... Same with Bikes, Cars, Trucks, ANYTHING... Idle speed my friend ;)
 
If you have ever jacked a front end or backend if RWD or sent a car up on a ramp with the engine idling and in neutral, a lot of cars wheels do rotate.

The wheel hub is connected to the drive shafts which are being turned by the gearbox, which depending on how its built does have rotating parts in neutral, which are connected to the flywheel/engine and drive plate via the spigot shaft in the bell housing, the engine tickover will turn everything but no drive is taking place, you can stop the slightly rotating wheels with your hand but they will start to rotate. Some brake calipers ease back a bit more than others or even slightly seized or sticking brake pads stop this but it is possible, I have seen this on many cars, mainly small FWD cars.

I have also pulled up to the traffic lights in a ford FWD, stopped and put it in neutral on a slight incline with no brakes applied and started to roll up the hill. I don't see this as a problem in GT unless its definitely known the said car doesn't does this, but even then I'm not bothered.
 
Chronos
...I have also pulled up to the traffic lights in a ford FWD, stopped and put it in neutral on a slight incline with no brakes applied and started to roll up the hill...
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I don't see how this is at all possible.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I put my car in neutral on a hill, you damn skippy that it is going to roll back.
 
JM1681
I don't see how this is at all possible.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I put my car in neutral on a hill, you damn skippy that it is going to roll back.
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I guessing people are confusing Neutral with Drive...assuming your using an Automatic...that being said if your car is moving up a hill when you truely have it in 'Neutral' take it to a mechanic immediately. :)
 
PalmerW
I guessing people are confusing Neutral with Drive...assuming your using an Automatic...that being said if your car is moving up a hill when you truely have it in 'Neutral' take it to a mechanic immediately. :)
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I've worked on cars from the age of 14 to 27, now 29 and don't bother anymore due to family deaths and looking after people, plus I have houses on rent for income.

Don't you understand even in neutral part of the gearbox is always being turned by then engine unless you depress the clutch peddle to release the drive plate between the the clutch cover and flywheel. Please go and send up 50,000 cars on a ramp in neutral with the engine running and you'll notice some DO rotate and it is possible to go up slight inclines in a light car in NEUTRAL.
 
Chronos
I've worked on cars from the age of 14 to 27, now 29 and don't bother anymore due to family deaths and looking after people, plus I have houses on rent for income.

Don't you understand even in neutral part of the gearbox is always being turned by then engine unless you depress the clutch peddle to release the drive plate between the the clutch cover and flywheel. Please go and send up 50,000 cars on a ramp in neutral with the engine running and you'll notice some DO rotate and it is possible to go up slight inclines in a light car in NEUTRAL.
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No i don't understand, probably because i never owned a car which goes up a hill while in neutral. But then again, i can't say i have tried sending 50,000 cars up a hill in neutral like you said...but then again, i don't see why anyone would... :)
 
I'm going to have to back up chronos here, i work in a garage as well as a mechanic and everyday i have cars up on the ramp and about 7/10 the wheels will rotate in neutral gear while in the air. It's just as he already described (quite well put as well i'll add), unless the clutch is depressed, the flywheel is in contact with the clutch friction plate and therefore a small amount of drive is being transferred. It really is basic stuff and it is reality. I will even film it for you if you'd like. It happens alot with small fwd cars like fiestas, although not unique to those types.
 
Does seem to make sense. I have never taken apart a cars driveshaft or even looked at it in the air, but I agree, it is possible to have the wheels spin while in neutral if the force is large enough. I know in my Suzuki Forenza, (which is a standard) if you let out the clutch in neutral, you can hear the plate hit the other plate (flywheel? rofl), and it makes just the slightest noise. So yes, I agree, although my car does not do that. (Granted, it is a wagon..boats like hell for such a small car :P)
 
lol, funny thread.

but there is a great deal of difference from wheels rotating when lifted off the ground and a car going uphill in neutral. Seeing as there is no real power at the wheels in neutral, and you need to fight the weight of the car plus whatever the angle of the hill.

I'd be suprised and delighted/frightend to see a car that does this =)
 
danjama
I'm going to have to back up chronos here, i work in a garage as well as a mechanic and everyday i have cars up on the ramp and about 7/10 the wheels will rotate in neutral gear while in the air. It's just as he already described (quite well put as well i'll add), unless the clutch is depressed, the flywheel is in contact with the clutch friction plate and therefore a small amount of drive is being transferred. It really is basic stuff and it is reality. I will even film it for you if you'd like. It happens alot with small fwd cars like fiestas, although not unique to those types.
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Thank you danjama.

I could film this as well but I'd have to borrow a better camera than I have and hang around my old place of work for a day. I got this question from every new school leaver who starts "how come the wheels are spinning when its out of gear".

And yes, some Fiesta's spin as if its in 1st while up in the air, some cars rotate very slow or not at all due to a number of things
 
:odd:

Doesn't neutral mean that the engine is not spinning anything? It's usually disconnected from the wheels/transmission/whatever.
 
Ok. Of all the cars i have owned or driven, i just never experienced one which moves forward while in neutral on flat ground, let alone go up a hill. I guess i stand corrected. :)
 
Barso
I know this is a prologue but surely this error should not have gotten through the net.
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Do you really think that in the process of developing Prologue they were stopping cars on tracks and seeing which way they roll? I mean sure, it's probably part of a greater code that effects much more, but I highly doubt the testing team were doing little more than racing and possibly crashing when they were testing GT5:P.

It's definetly something to be cleared up for the final game, but as part of Prologue it's completely acceptable, IMO.
 
IMO, If your car moves up a hill in Neutral, seriously, you got one HUGE problem with your transmission. That should not happen, I would assume something is incorrectly funtioning or binding. Just my thoughts...
 
You have to see if it is specific to certain types of cars. KY has said that they don't bother testing cars that much anymore, they just use the data to simulate the cars and if that is good then the simulation is good. Maybe they have it programed in that a certain kind of drivetrain produces this behavior?
 
PalmerW
Ok. Of all the cars i have owned or driven, i just never experienced one which moves forward while in neutral on flat ground, let alone go up a hill. I guess i stand corrected. :)
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Well, i don't know about going uphill, but it is certainly possible on flatground.

To tophat, neutral means no drive is selected, there is still movement inside the gearbox which translates into movement at the driveshafts, hence the rolling wheels while in the air. This movement is almost definately enough to roll a car forward in neutral. Here's some basics if anyone fancies a look:

http://www.carbibles.com/transmission_bible.html

NP Chronos.
 
Can I just ask; How did you get the car into neutral? Unless you are using a G25 I'm fairly sure its impossible.

Actually, the point about Electric Brae could be true, check this out
 
The big question is was the car actually in neutral or was it just idleing in 1st. If it was in 1st at idle then yes the car will move forwards with ease. Most cars will drive themselves up a shallow hill at idle with little to no trouble, it's nothing strange. If the car is actually in neutral and you are not just at idle in 1st then the car shouldn't roll up a hill but as has been said it might have enough torque to drive itself on flat ground.
 
adlyco
Can I just ask; How did you get the car into neutral? Unless you are using a G25 I'm fairly sure its impossible.

Actually, the point about Electric Brae could be true, check this out
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It's a well-known optical illusion. It just humoured me to post it.
 
this topic reminds me of stories my uncle used to tell me about when he used to go to hangman hill (will be familiar to anyone from essex or london i hope, not americans). It was a haunted hill that would drag your car up even with handbrake on haha he used to scare me with threats to drive up there :) Of course i went there with my friends a couple years ago and nothing happened. Great childhood memory nonetheless.
 
The one thing I have to say to people who say that wheels turn in neutral is that if that was true, the car would stall in neutral at a light...
 
Well, thankyou for shedding light on the whole thing and settling it, :dunce:

Would you like to provide some logic with your half thought theory? It makes no sense at all. Do you even know why the engine stalls? If you even had half a clue you would realise how illogical your post was.
 
In the spirit of the thread, I've noticed that there's plenty of places where the car will roll backwards while in first gear where you'd expect the car to remain stable or at least roll forward while idling. Try it on the pit lanes of Daytona or High Speed Ring.

Weird.
 

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