Cars sounding off, arrgh!

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Good thing GT5 isn't 'The Real Sound Simulator', eh? :lol:
Kinda suprising nobody incorporated that in their defense of the game yet :D
 
I don't think so. At all. When idling, it has a completely different tone to it, higher, softer, not as rough, not as rumbling.
Furthermore, listing at it revving. Sounds like the idle sound has just been fast forwarded. Unlike the real Cobra.

Like i said tv speaker's ? Anyone else with surround sound would have to disagree on the Shelby. Some car's don't sound good but the Shelby isn't one of them.

So, uh, how make my speakers a difference? Watching both the YouTube video of the Cobra on my TV as well as playing GT5 on it, they sound completely different.
And that's with a YouTube video that doesn't even deliver a very good sound sampling
I guess you're using different speaker setups for your PS3 and your PC, huh?
No i use Logitech Z506 surround sound for my PC/PS3 they are both connected to my tv so my tv is my PC monitor as well gaming screen.

If you listen to both videos on the same speakers, how does the setup make a difference?
It only does when you listen to one sample on a good system and while the other one is listened to via a laptop or some crappy PC speakers.

Hook your PC up to your surround sound system as well. Real life footage + crappy PC speakers could be on par with GT5 + surround sound system, yeah. If both are on equal sound systems, they're not.

Oh boy, my pc is hooked up to my surround sound also. When are you gonna remember your coming at this from the viewpoint of someone who is listening through TV SPEAKERS !!!! There is only so much frequency and range tv speaker's can deliver! I'm listening to the same sounds your hearing but through 5.1 surround sound, not even 7.1 and still there is a VERY AUDIBLE difference between 5.1 surround sound and my LCD factory tv speaker's .

You hear everything the game is trying to get you to hear coming from directly in front of you, scrambled and mixed up and forced through only 2 speaker's

I have 5 speakers + a big bastard of a subwoofer.The game feed's the correct sounds through the correct location so you don't end up with the scrambled mess that you hear ( Not a dig at you,just saying ) I hear the tranny and air induction noise coming from the front, i get exhuast notes screaming at me from the rear and the subwoofer, it's just a completely different experience between the two of us.

HDTV's scrimp on the speaker system and focus on the picture because they assume if you have $1500 to spend on a Hi-Def TV made for movies and games then you might invest $75-200 on a sound system for it.
 
You hear everything the game is trying to get you to hear coming from directly in front of you, scrambled and mixed up and forced through only 2 speaker's

OKay. So...
GT5 + TV speakers = Sound A.
GT5 + 5.1 = Sound A high def.
Real + TV speakers = Sound B.
Real + 5.1 = Sound A high def.

Is that what you're saying? That instead of Sound B in high def, it all of a sudden changes to Sound A? Quiet interesting, admittedly.

Doesn't seem to be the case when using my AKG headphones, though.
 
OKay. So...
GT5 + TV speakers = Sound A.
GT5 + 5.1 = Sound A high def.
Real + TV speakers = Sound B.
Real + 5.1 = Sound A high def.

Is that what you're saying? That instead of Sound B in high def, it all of a sudden changes to Sound A? Quiet interesting, admittedly.

Doesn't seem to be the case when using my AKG headphones, though.

I am so confused let me figure out what your trying to say and i'll edit and get back to ya :)

Edit : Nope, i just can't get my head around what your trying to say, with all due respect i really don't understand?
What i am trying to say is that Me and You hear two completely different sounds when we play GT5.
I take it AKG headphones are one of these headphones that are marketed as "surround sound" ???
 
I am so confused let me figure out what your trying to say and i'll edit and get back to ya :)

Edit : Nope, i just can't get my head around what your trying to say, with all due respect i really don't understand?
What i am trying to say is that Me and You hear two completely different sounds when we play GT5.
We are hearing different sounds.
To you, the YT video and GT sound the same on a surround sound system.
To me, they sound different on both my TV speakers and my headphones.

The question is: If both are being compared, and sound different on my two sound systems, I'm just wondering how they're sounding alike on yours. That's all.
Basically, I'm wondering what your sound system changes in GT5 that it doesn't change for the real footage.

Well, the answer is pretty obvious: GT5 actually provides surround sound, the real footage doesn't (as it's just a YT video), nobody is arguing that. That shouldn't influence the note of the engine, for example, when you're comparing two non-surround sound samples of GT5 and a real car (basically, comparing YT videos of GT5 and a real car).

It's just that I'm a bit, you know, baffled that a sound system alters two audio sources in different ways.

I take it AKG headphones are one of these headphones that are marketed as "surround sound" ???
Not to my knowledge. It's just a very high quality product as far as sound goes.
 
We are hearing different sounds.
The question is: If both are being compared, and sound different on my two sound systems, I'm just wondering how they're sounding alike on yours. That's all.
Basically, I'm wondering what your sound system changes in GT5 that it doesn't change for the real footage.

I'll explain this again the best i can. The surround sound doesn't change a hell of a lot from the YT video.
What it does do however is change the way GT5 sounds, your not hearing the engine note properly because you have the Air intake,turbo spool,tyre screech,transmission noise,drivetrain noise, exhaust note etc, all coming from the one direction at the same time. I really can't explain it other than say find someone who has surround sound and just kick back and enjoy...

So if GT5 sounds different to me thru 5.1, then of course i'm going to have a different opinion to you on whether non-modified car's sound realistic.

That shouldn't influence the note of the engine, for example, when you're comparing two non-surround sound samples of GT5 and a real car
It DOES influence the note of the engine, it makes it a lot closer to the real life sample, i can't say it any other way .


I have my own thread dedicated to cars not sounding right when you add turbo's etc so don't think for a minute that im happy with GT5 sounds, i merely pointed out originally that the shelby wasn't a good example because it's idle and acceleration sound very very much like the real video posted.
 
Obviously there are two kinds of people in the world. Those that actually enjoy engine sounds like music and some people that really don´t care that much.

I personally am one of the first. I actually buy my real life cars partly because of their sound. I have bought a MK IV Golf R32 partly because of the great noise it makes. I will buy a 370z this summer partly because of the great noise it makes. If it had a 4-Cylinder Turbo engine like so many do nowadays and everything else would be the same, I would NOT buy it.

In short I really enjoy the sound of a powerfull engine, it is a major part of a cars experience. I have heard a lot of the big cars I drive in game in real life as well. I drive at the real Nordschleife a lot and you have basically almost every sportscar there at one time or another.

Saying that the M3 in GT5 is "close enough" is like saying that masturbation is close enough to humping *insert favourite actress (or actor, what do I care :sly:)* in real life. Both will get the job done, but it is a completely different experience.

And it is not just that the sounds are a bit "off". They are often completely wrong, as the OP correctly stated.

Again, this discussion allways splits two ways. Some people say that they think that GT sounds great or at least pretty good, and some, like me, think they mostly don´t even come close to the real thing.

I think this is due to some people paying a lot more attention to the sound then others.

If we are talking about the real driving simulator, then the sound definately IS a big part that needs improving.
 
I'll explain this again the best i can. The surround sound doesn't change a hell of a lot from the YT video.
What it does do however is change the way GT5 sounds, your not hearing the engine note properly because you have the Air intake,turbo spool,tyre screech,transmission noise,drivetrain noise, exhaust note etc, all coming from the one direction at the same time. I really can't explain it other than say find someone who has surround sound and just kick back and enjoy...
That's exactly the point. The YT video has all sounds meshed together; intake, exhaust, engine. That's exactly what's happening with GT5 when it's putting the sound out without surround sound.

All sounds meshed togehter in GT5: Doesn't sound like a YT video with all sounds meshed together.

All sounds audible individually in GT5: Sounds like a YT with all sounds meshed together.

GT5 should sound like that YT video when it's not using 5.1 and a hell of a lot better than that with 5.1.

See where I'm coming from?
 
That's exactly the point. The YT video has all sounds meshed together; intake, exhaust, engine. That's exactly what's happening with GT5 when it's putting the sound out without surround sound.


See where I'm coming from?

Nearly checkmate but i think i have one move left..
Oh yeah i see where your coming from mate, but you're forgetting the one critical factor from those youtube video's, they are a real recording of the actual car accelerating. So you don't infact get all the sounds meshed together you just hear whatever the dominate sound is at the time ( i think ).

With GT5 every sound is artificial whilst accelerating so to be able to hear the piece you wanna hear sometimes can be hard (without surround). 1 example is not being able to hear the exhaust or engine note properly because it's trying to be portrayed at the same time as the whining tranny etc..

A good example is drive the car in cockpit view, then press "look back" and keep driving and listen to how different it is, you will hear the exhaust note that i'm hearing through surround sound ( well as close to without a subwoofer ).
When you change your view in car you get a sound more focused on the rear of the car and vice-versa.

Try it out :)
 
Nearly checkmate but i think i have one move left..
Oh yeah i see where your coming from mate, but you're forgetting the one critical factor from those youtube video's, they are a real recording of the actual car accelerating. So you don't infact get all the sounds meshed together you just hear whatever the dominate sound is at the time ( i think ).

With GT5 every sound is artificial whilst accelerating so to be able to hear the piece you wanna hear sometimes can be hard (without surround). 1 example is not being able to hear the exhaust or engine note properly because it's trying to be portrayed at the same time as the whining tranny etc..

A good example is drive the car in cockpit view, then press "look back" and keep driving and listen to how different it is, you will hear the exhaust note that i'm hearing through surround sound ( well as close to without a subwoofer ).
When you change your view in car you get a sound more focused on the rear of the car and vice-versa.

Try it out :)

All of the above is quite true. However:
The camera man is sitting in the cockpit of the car, in a position that resembles the one you are supposed to take when driving a car in GT5. So, what GT5 should replicate is what that guy is hearing (and recording).
He doesn't record selected bits or anything, just the overall sound that can be heard at that position in the car.
And that mesh is different from what GT5 does.

If you're in the same car, in the same position, at the same rev range, at the same speed (etc) the mesh you get from GT5 should be the same as the mesh you get from the youtube video.

Basically, without 5.1, GT5 should soudn like that video. With 5.1, it should sound like sitting in the real car (at a differnt volume, though... A Cobra's true volume would make your neighbors go mad, I guess :D).

A nice experiment would be to record what it sounds like with the surround sound in a video and comparing that video to one of a real car.
That way, you'd create a mesh of both under the same circumstances.
Otherwise, one would need to find a 5.1 audio sample of the real car (which seems pretty hard to find).
 
I would record one for ya but i'm under the impression you can't record "surround sound" , as when played back it's not going to be surround sound to you it will just be a mashup of what i'm hearing.

Edit : Your last post has some very interesting points, i guess without 5.1 it should sound like the video in theory. But due to whatever reasons it doesn't in a majority of cars.
As you can hear by the engine start up noise when you purchase the car, without 5.1 you can still get very realistic sounds. For whatever reason, whilst driving that realistic engine sound gets lost and it really does take 5.1 to enhance it to an acceptable tone. I'm still not pleased with the sounds though even with 5.1 by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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GT5 uses a relatively complex sound system where different sounds from the transmission, exhaust, engine whine, and others are thrown together to create the overall sound.

The problem is that some of them don't sound exactly like the real thing. Now look at this Rfactor video and compare to the real car (incar footage starts at 30 seconds):




Even though Rfactor uses a simpler method for capturing the sounds, it still sounds pretty spot-on.

If modders can do it on a daily basis, why can't PD?
 
We had this video in another thread, and I am absolutely amazed what dedicated modders can do. It sounds absolutely glorious.

I mean even GPL, which had the most basic one-sample system you can imagine, could put out some pretty nice sounds. When modders had the right samples and fiddled with it enough, it did sound pretty meaty.

The above video is exactly what I hope GT will sound someday.

Now some people will propably enter this thread and say that Rfactor sounds like a YT video, because all the samples were propably taken from it etc.

The YT video is from the real car, so chances are pretty good that it DOES sound like the real car. If therefore Rfactor sounds like a YT video... well I think that is pretty damn great
 
GT5 uses a relatively complex sound system where different sounds from the transmission, exhaust, engine whine, and others are thrown together to create the overall sound.

The problem is that some of them don't sound exactly like the real thing. Now look at this Rfactor video and compare to the real car (incar footage starts at 30 seconds):




Even though Rfactor uses a simpler method for capturing the sounds, it still sounds pretty spot-on.

If modders can do it on a daily basis, why can't PD?


Holy **** i want Rfactor just for this alone. That sound is spot on.

Have the 1st video on 0.22 seconds and the 2nd (bottom) video on 0.56 seconds, play at the same time and ENJOY !
 
We had this video in another thread, and I am absolutely amazed what dedicated modders can do. It sounds absolutely glorious.

I mean even GPL, which had the most basic one-sample system you can imagine, could put out some pretty nice sounds. When modders had the right samples and fiddled with it enough, it did sound pretty meaty.

The above video is exactly what I hope GT will sound someday.

Now some people will propably enter this thread and say that Rfactor sounds like a YT video, because all the samples were propably taken from it etc.

The YT video is from the real car, so chances are pretty good that it DOES sound like the real car. If therefore Rfactor sounds like a YT video... well I think that is pretty damn great

I agreed whole-heartedly with your previous post about some people just "not getting" sound (i.e. they've never really paid attention to it, not surprising considering how little we rely on our hearing nowadays...) but now you're saying that rFactor mod sounds like the real thing. I bet you've seen at least one of those race-prepped 911s at some point, and you should know that if you were sat in the actual car, it would sound nothing like that YouTube video. Yes, the samples were probably taken from that video - that's all that comparison "proves".

Perhaps you might think about what that YouTube clip is missing. I'm fed up with people saying GT should sound like x or y game (or indeed, that any game should sound like x or y game) - the point is, they're all inaccurate. Sound designers need to go back to basics, re-think their assumptions and prejudices and start getting sound right! It's happening in shooters now, so I think it's time for it to show up in simulations, too.

As for GPL, you should know that it originally never used samples (well, it used one for all cars, but all cars still sounded fairly unique). It was patched to allow for unique samples per car, but the net effect in the game is still more complex and multi-dimensional than the single sample could allow. What I mean is, there seems to be some "synth" element to it, the idle sound demonstrates this in particular. If you still play GPL, look out for sound engine updates in the future - the modding community are coming up with some nice ideas ;)
 
I would record one for ya but i'm under the impression you can't record "surround sound" , as when played back it's not going to be surround sound to you it will just be a mashup of what i'm hearing.
Yup, and that mesh would then be compared to the YT video. That should indicate how close the two actually are. The basic idea is to see whether a mesh created from GT5's surround sound differs from the mesh the game makes itself when using the TV's speakers (which I'm, by now, genuinly interested in, not just to prove a point :D).
I think it might be feasible that such a manual mesh would sound different from the one the game created automatically.


Edit : Your last post has some very interesting points, i guess without 5.1 it should sound like the video in theory. But due to whatever reasons it doesn't in a majority of cars.
As you can hear by the engine start up noise when you purchase the car, without 5.1 you can still get very realistic sounds. For whatever reason, whilst driving that realistic engine sound gets lost and it really does take 5.1 to enhance it to an acceptable tone. I'm still not pleased with the sounds though even with 5.1 by any stretch of the imagination.
Personally, I have the feeling that the start-up noises have been recorded, while the stuff we're hearing while racing is just a synthesised sound.

That's probably the best inidication of the quality of GT5's sound for most of the cars. The start up seems quite close to what you'd expect from the real car (given the same means of sound depiction for both the real footage and GT5), but it's completely different from what you're hearing ingame.

If only PD could create that kind of sound while driving the car... Eargasm! :)
 
Yup, and that mesh would then be compared to the YT video. That should indicate how close the two actually are. The basic idea is to see whether a mesh created from GT5's surround sound differs from the mesh the game makes itself when using the TV's speakers (which I'm, by now, genuinly interested in, not just to prove a point :D).
I think it might be feasible that such a manual mesh would sound different from the one the game created automatically.

It's 2.13am here with everyone asleep so maybe not the best time to record GT5's surround sound :sly: but perhaps tomorrow i might do even just for my own self interest aswell as yours.

As far as engine start up noises, they defnitely sound recorded from the actual car when they had it to model for the interior etc.. And yep such a shame the 'eargasm' you get from some of the authentic start up noise doesn't transfer to In game racing.
 
It's 2.13am here with everyone asleep so maybe not the best time to record GT5's surround sound :sly: but perhaps tomorrow i might do even just for my own self interest aswell as yours.
No need to do so, it's a need thinking exercise (and it's nice to get away from the usual kind discussion are being held around here), but you don't need to provide an audio file or anything :)

As far as engine start up noises, they defnitely sound recorded from the actual car when they had it to model for the interior etc.. And yep such a shame the 'eargasm' you get from some of the authentic start up noise doesn't transfer to In game racing.

Yup... I usually switch my cars by using the triangle-dropdown menu... But some sound so delicious, I just have to to do bring them up completely to hear them start up :D
 
Yup, and that mesh would then be compared to the YT video. That should indicate how close the two actually are. The basic idea is to see whether a mesh created from GT5's surround sound differs from the mesh the game makes itself when using the TV's speakers (which I'm, by now, genuinly interested in, not just to prove a point :D).
I think it might be feasible that such a manual mesh would sound different from the one the game created automatically.



Personally, I have the feeling that the start-up noises have been recorded, while the stuff we're hearing while racing is just a synthesised sound.

That's probably the best inidication of the quality of GT5's sound for most of the cars. The start up seems quite close to what you'd expect from the real car (given the same means of sound depiction for both the real footage and GT5), but it's completely different from what you're hearing ingame.

If only PD could create that kind of sound while driving the car... Eargasm! :)

Well, of course it is. It's sample-based synthesis, though ;)

As for the start-up sounds, they're easy because the point of view can be arbitrary - we don't know what that point of view is, although we can guess in some instances, and it seems slightly different for every car. In-game, however, it's a different story. The point of view is quite obvious, and you're now challenged to recreate the sound of the engine over its entire rev range and throttle positions, that are congruent for a potentially infinite number of viewpoints. That means an infinite number of sample are required... but practicality steps in at that point.

Playing that start-up sound whilst sat in the cockpit view would probably sound strange, though.
 
I agreed whole-heartedly with your previous post about some people just "not getting" sound (i.e. they've never really paid attention to it, not surprising considering how little we rely on our hearing nowadays...) but now you're saying that rFactor mod sounds like the real thing. I bet you've seen at least one of those race-prepped 911s at some point, and you should know that if you were sat in the actual car, it would sound nothing like that YouTube video. Yes, the samples were probably taken from that video - that's all that comparison "proves".

Perhaps you might think about what that YouTube clip is missing. I'm fed up with people saying GT should sound like x or y game (or indeed, that any game should sound like x or y game) - the point is, they're all inaccurate. Sound designers need to go back to basics, re-think their assumptions and prejudices and start getting sound right! It's happening in shooters now, so I think it's time for it to show up in simulations, too.

I don't think that a car with a V8 engine sound from a YT video would sound like a V6 from it's cockpit IRL:lol: This is what PD usually gets wrong with the engine sound, the tone of the engine is completely wrong, although the sound itself might be "good" on it's own.

The Rfactor mod sounds like proper 6-cylinder engine.

While these videos aren't of the best quality, they are enough:
GT5 Enzo (sounds like a V8)


Enzo from GT5 demo, it's depressing cause PD had the V12 tone to it:(


Real Enzo, the demo version sounds closer to the real thing than the full GT5 version:irked:
 
Yup... I usually switch my cars by using the triangle-dropdown menu... But some sound so delicious, I just have to to do bring them up completely to hear them start up :D

At the risk of sounding really really stupid, there is a triangle dropdown menu that bypasses that start up sound? ( puts flame shield on )
 
Playing that start-up sound whilst sat in the cockpit view would probably sound strange, though.

I know it wouldn't work out as an engine sound sample and it's obviously true that it is a lot easier to recreate an accurate sound for an arbitrary rev range and point of view; I think that goes without saying.

I just think that the start up is a good indicator of the difference between GT5's sound and an accurately depicted one; that's how the car should sound like (if one was to replicate the same kind of revving and view point) when heard via a given sound system.
The reason I thin it is such a good indicator is because it ignores the different means of outputting the sound other sources for comparison bring a long - eg. a heavily compressed YouTube video.

At the risk of sounding really really stupid, there is a triangle dropdown menu that bypasses that start up sound? ( puts flame shield on )
Yup, there is. Took me a while to find out, too :D
It allows for various actions to be taken, such as entering that car, entering the car's setup screen, setting it as a favourite and so on.
Since it bypasses the whole animated representation, it's noticibly faster than hitting (X) when the car is selected
 
Yup, there is. Took me a while to find out, too :D
It allows for various actions to be taken, such as entering that car, entering the car's setup screen, setting it as a favourite and so on.
Since it bypasses the whole animated representation, it's noticibly faster than hitting (X) when the car is selected

Oh geez first i miss the garage icon in the bottom corner when choosing A-Spec events and now this ?? Urgh. Thanks very much.

Side note -That enzo looks like a bloody handful in the Top Gear Vid.
 
My veyron normally sounds like a hairdryer and then one day it decided it was an ///M5...so much for realism
 
Oh geez first i miss the garage icon in the bottom corner when choosing A-Spec events and now this ?? Urgh. Thanks very much.
You're welcome 👍
A few (improved) tooltips here and there would've helped to prevent a lot of confusion, I guess.

There's a lot of stuff that's easy to miss, but it's kinda cool to play Sherlock Holmes to discover the depths of GT5 :D
 
I know that there's a thread on the wrst car sounds, though this one is reserved for cars which have engines sounding nothing like their cylinder numbers:mad: (Mods can move this or lock if they feel this thread is unnecessary)

- Enzo Ferrari- Sounds like a V8, when it should be a V12
- Ferrari 599 GTB- Same as the Enzo
- Formula GT- It's a V12 spinning at 18500rpm, should sound like one.
- GT by Citroen road car- The car has a V8 in real life, yet it sounds like a V10
- Corvette C6 RM- Generic engine sound from GT3, similar to a V6

Any others?

DO YOU REALLY WANT ME TO WRITE DOWN A 1000 CARS???
They all sound horrible. Only the Mazda 787b is good, the rest is *****
 
I don't think that a car with a V8 engine sound from a YT video would sound like a V6 from it's cockpit IRL:lol: This is what PD usually gets wrong with the engine sound, the tone of the engine is completely wrong, although the sound itself might be "good" on it's own.

The Rfactor mod sounds like proper 6-cylinder engine.

...

I never said it would.

I agree, PD do make some inexplicable decisions about the sounds they use for certain cars.

My comments weren't in defence of GT5, they were in support of using your ears and realising that onboard footage is severely flawed. I happen to have a few theories as to why that is, but I've covered that elsewhere in discussions with other people who feel that interior views lack depth and punch (in any game.)

When it comes to interior sound, there is so much more happening than a video-camera's microphone will pick up from one location.
The best attempt at interior samples I've ever heard has to be from PGR4, owing to the fact that they were actually recorded from the interior - although it still suffers from other drawbacks inherited from an archaic approach to sound engines.
 
I never said it would.

I agree, PD do make some inexplicable decisions about the sounds they use for certain cars.

My comments weren't in defence of GT5, they were in support of using your ears and realising that onboard footage is severely flawed. I happen to have a few theories as to why that is, but I've covered that elsewhere in discussions with other people who feel that interior views lack depth and punch (in any game.)

When it comes to interior sound, there is so much more happening than a video-camera's microphone will pick up from one location.
The best attempt at interior samples I've ever heard has to be from PGR4, owing to the fact that they were actually recorded from the interior - although it still suffers from other drawbacks inherited from an archaic approach to sound engines.

That PGR4 video sounds really good, if only PD would dedicate some more time to have proper engine sounds.

Have to agree that it's nearly impossible to create a perfect recreation of every component of an engine sound.

I'm a sound designer for FlightSim, and I normally use recordings of the engine as a whole, just from different directions. While it still cannot recreate the perfect engine sound like you are mentioning, it is enough for a realistic experience.

The main thing with PD sounds is that they lack the engine tone as well as the in-depth sound.

For example, they managed to get the Peugeot 908 almost right (engine tone, deep rumble, etc) but it seems to rev much higher than it does in real life.
 
You're welcome 👍
A few (improved) tooltips here and there would've helped to prevent a lot of confusion, I guess.

There's a lot of stuff that's easy to miss, but it's kinda cool to play Sherlock Holmes to discover the depths of GT5 :D

Last off topic post for me don't worry guys, yeah i enjoy finding the little bits and pieces myself too. I'm just always rushing to do things and then get out and race that i miss these small things. Being a bit more observant wouldn't hurt.
 
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