Catalytic Converter - Yes or No?

[White & Nerdy]

Nope everything is quite legal as long as it has a cat, then you are good.

Explain this then:

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT USING, INSTALLING, OR
BUYING AFTERMARKET CATALYTIC CONVERTERS


As of January 1, 1988, all persons engaged in the business of automotive service and repair, as well as other parties named in section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act*, are prohibited from installing or selling aftermarket catalytic converters which have not met the criteria of EPA's interim enforcement policy entitled 'Sale and Use of Aftermarket Catalytic Converters'* (published on August 5, 1986). The installation of non-complying converters by a named party will be considered a violation of section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act, and the violator may be subject to a civil penalty of up to $25,000 for each improper installation

-4-
(6) When can I install an aftermarket converter?
Generally, there are only 3 situations when you can install an aftermarket converter.
They are:
(1) if the converter is missing from the vehicle when brought in for exhaust system repair; or
(2) if a State or local inspection program has determined the existing converter has been lead poisoned, damaged, or otherwise needs replacement; or
(3) if the vehicle is more than 5 years old or has more than 50,000 miles*
(8 years/80,000 miles for 1995 and newer vehicles) and a legitimate need for
replacement has been established and appropriately documented (e.g., a
plugged converter or unrepairable exhaust leaks).

(11) What may happen if I don't use the correct converter?
First, it is a violation of Federal law because it is likely to increase the amount of pollution coming out of the vehicle. Penalties for violations by individuals, service or repair shops or fleet operators are up to $2,500 per violation. (Each improper installation is considered a violation.) New car dealers can be penalized up to $25,000 per violation. Any person who causes a violation could be subject to the same penalty as the installer.

 

[Slash]

Quite simply put, that was then and this is now. Aftermarket converters meet federal emission standards now, and most serve as a factory replacement. Like I said it will tell you on the box.

That law is pretty much what I've been saying. "Correct" converter in this day and age is obsolete. Most, if not all converters are listed as high flow/high performance factory replacements and will tell you where it's legal to use by state. By law every and all converters have to meet federal standards, after that it works on a state by state level which is why it will tell you what state it can be used in as each state has a different set of laws. California is one of the worst. This applies to most aftermarket parts engine related.

Key words are "have NOT met the criteria of EPA's interim enforcement policy". By 2013, all of them on the market meet the criteria, except for some being used in extreme applications and by that point its track only and there's no real point of having one installed anyways. Notice when the law was passed, 1988. They've had almost 20 years to get it right.

 

[White & Nerdy]

Well, that's good to know. Thanks.

 

[Slash]

No problem, most of that's been drilled into my brain while applying for my NYS vehicle safety and emissions inspectors license.

 

[playnthru]

Yeah that's all pretty accurate.👍 The aftermarket has caught up big time. Even here you can install a "legal" performance exhaust system as long as it's (CARB approved), you're golden.👍 C.A.R.B= California Air Research Board.

What Slash meant was California is the best! At robbing horsepower. The whole 25 year doesn't really apply here either. They made 25 years from when the law first passed, it's not a sliding scale yearly. Only 1975 and older is exempt here, many people are needing new catalytic converters just to pass the required SMOG tests.

 

[Slash]

I think the 25 year thing is state dependant really. Usually when the car reaches classic status it becomes exempt, at least here. The sliding yearly scale is state, even sometimes county dependant. Just got to keep up on your laws, that's all. The only other ways it can be exempt, at least in NY, is if it's 2 years old or newer (because obviously still works ), or the car was manufactured pre 1996 with the OBDI emissions system. That is how we got away without having the ECU cut out, simply because it was an OBDI vehicle. Nowadays, typically everything is emissions legal and if it isn't, it will tell you.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I passed emissions years ago in my Sentra in Arizona as they only checked the ECU for CEL codes and it had none. Little did they know the stock cats were gutted and an O2 spacer was keeping the light off.

Colorado, never had an issue. No emissions. I would be surprised if any of my friends cars had cats either.

 

[Slash]

I passed emissions years ago in my Sentra in Arizona as they only checked the ECU for CEL codes and it had none. Little did they know the stock cats were gutted and an O2 spacer was keeping the light off.

Colorado, never had an issue. No emissions. I would be surprised if any of my friends cars had cats either.

Most guys that do the testing are lazy and don't actually check when they are supposed to. I witnessed that after interning at a few shops. They just plug in the scan tool and if no codes come up then you are golden. Some places can be really picky though.

 

[McLaren]

Quite simply put, that was then and this is now. Aftermarket converters meet federal emission standards now, and most serve as a factory replacement. Like I said it will tell you on the box.

Actually, no. That law remains the same to this day.

That law is pretty much what I've been saying. "Correct" converter in this day and age is obsolete. Most, if not all converters are listed as high flow/high performance factory replacements and will tell you where it's legal to use by state. By law every and all converters have to meet federal standards, after that it works on a state by state level which is why it will tell you what state it can be used in as each state has a different set of laws. California is one of the worst. This applies to most aftermarket parts engine related.

They actually aren't & most do not tell what state you can use them because again, it is a federal law. This is why most people end up going on forums asking if they'll pass smog emissions due to the various emissions testings by each state. But, even if the state doesn't check for it, that doesn't mean it's not illegal. It just means the chances of being caught are incredibly low in that particular state. If you move elsewhere, chances could raise or lower.

Now, does the law say there are 3 reasons you can have an aftermarket converter? Yes. Does that mean any high performance cat can be used? No.

8) What are the requirements for installers?
Besides installing aftermarket converters only in the 3 situations outlined in response to question (6), other requirements and restrictions also apply. These include completely documenting the need for converter replacement, properly installing the correct one on the vehicle, and informing the customer of his rights and certain restrictions.

Specifically, these requirements are as follows:

(1) If the replacement is not required by a State or local program, both customer and installer must sign a statement concerning why the converter was replaced.
(Manufacturers either provide such a statement with the converter or have an
example in their catalogs.)


(2) If the replacement is required by a State or local program, the installer must keep a copy of the statement or order by the program representative.


(3) The invoice for replacement must include the customer's name and complete address, and the vehicle's make, model year, and mileage, as well as the reason for replacement.


(4) Retain copies of the above invoices and statements for 6 months and the replaced converters for 15 days (converters must be identified or marked as to which customer's car they came from).


(5) Install the converter in the same location as the original.


(6) Install the same type of converter as the original (oxidation, 3-way, or 3-way-plus- oxidation (dual-bed)). This information is sometimes available on the emission tune-up label or from the manufacturer's application catalog.


(7) Install the proper converter for the vehicle as determined and specified by the converter manufacturer. There are engine size and vehicle weight limitations which make it inappropriate to install certain converters on certain vehicles. Newer vehicles with On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) systems may not always operate properly with certain aftermarket products. Therefore, the catalog should always be consulted for the correct application.

A lot of aftermarket cats are almost never the same type for obvious reasons.

Key words are "have NOT met the criteria of EPA's interim enforcement policy". By 2013, all of them on the market meet the criteria, except for some being used in extreme applications and by that point its track only and there's no real point of having one installed anyways. Notice when the law was passed, 1988. They've had almost 20 years to get it right.

They don't meet that criteria in most cases. Again, most feature a "Off-Road Use Only" on them to protect the company from legal issues.

The law has not changed in regards to catalytic converters. It is a federal law to remove or tamper with them unless there is a reason to do so. And let's be clear, in the eyes of the law, only licensed parties will be seen as whether or not they see reason to, not the general public.

 

[Slash]

Interesting, I haven't seen a whole lot that don't, but then again there is just so many and I don't tend to pay much attention anyways.

I did say before that you can't mess with them unless there is reason.

 

[White & Nerdy]

So we're back to "dual exhaust or less exhaust restriction = illegal".

Is it possible to find anywhere a less restrictive cat that'll keep the federal meddlers happy?

 

[Slash]

So we're back to "dual exhaust or less exhaust restriction = illegal".

No, as said it depends on the part being used.

 

[McLaren]

So we're back to "dual exhaust or less exhaust restriction = illegal".

Is it possible to find anywhere a less restrictive cat that'll keep the federal meddlers happy?

As long as your car can still run the converter the EPA deems required for it, it really doesn't matter what you do to the exhaust beyond that. If you can't run a dual-exhaust without having to tamper with it, then yes, it's illegal.

 

[Slash]

As long as your car can still run the converter the EPA deems required for it, it really doesn't matter what you do to the exhaust beyond that. If you can't run a dual-exhaust without having to tamper with it, then yes, it's illegal.

I thought you could run dual exhaust as long as it had a cats deemed a factory replacement regardless?

 

[McLaren]

I thought you could run dual exhaust as long as it had a cats deemed a factory replacement regardless?

I don't know how the exhaust system on a Sunbird is setup nor do I really care to look, but he's asking if he can gut it to run a dual-exhaust setup and if it's legal. If he has to cut up his converter to do so, then yes, it's illegal. If he can run a dual exhaust will keeping his converter in order, then it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Slash]

I don't know how the exhaust system on a Sunbird is setup nor do I really care to look, but he's asking if he can gut it to run a dual-exhaust setup and if it's legal. If he has to cut up his converter to do so, then yes, it's illegal. If he can run a dual exhaust will keeping his converter in order, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Ah ok, that makes more sense. Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[White & Nerdy]

I don't know how the exhaust system on a Sunbird is setup nor do I really care to look, but he's asking if he can gut it to run a dual-exhaust setup and if it's legal. If he has to cut up his converter to do so, then yes, it's illegal. If he can run a dual exhaust will keeping his converter in order, then it shouldn't be a problem.

It was more on the order of requiring dual cats (at least for a true dual setup), but the thing is, the exhaust pipe on the Sunbird runs through a fairly narrow floorpan hump that looks almost like a driveshaft tunnel. A true dual setup would probably be a tight fit, and I'm especially not sure if I'd be able to cram two catastrophic converters into that small space without some kind of other issues.

 

[McLaren]

It was more on the order of requiring dual cats (at least for a true dual setup), but the thing is, the exhaust pipe on the Sunbird runs through a fairly narrow floorpan hump that looks almost like a driveshaft tunnel. A true dual setup would probably be a tight fit, and I'm especially not sure if I'd be able to cram two catastrophic converters into that small space without some kind of other issues.

Hmm. Well, in that case, it's an interesting question since you're trying to still abide by the law by providing a converter.

But, I think by what the law defines as valid reasons for removing a cat, I have a gut feeling that would still be seen as illegal in their eyes even if it sounds like you're actually placing another converter alongside. You might want to ask a shop that, though.

 

[Slash]

If you have 2 cats when you replace the system, one on each pipe, you should be fine.

 

[White & Nerdy]

Hmm. Well, in that case, it's an interesting question since you're trying to still abide by the law by providing a converter.

But, I think by what the law defines as valid reasons for removing a cat, I have a gut feeling that would still be seen as illegal in their eyes even if it sounds like you're actually placing another converter alongside. You might want to ask a shop that, though.

I'm trying to stay within the law, not because I care what the Mother Earth Heroes at the EPA think (I don't), but because I can't afford a ridiculous fine. $10,000? $25,000? For installing a performance converter? Talk about disproportionate retribution.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Highly doubt you'll be fined.

Edit: unless you're in California, then good luck.