Caterham

  • Thread starter Thread starter kiladonut
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Stew2000
There's loads of different companies out there.
I would of loved a Tiger or MNR.
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Yeah, I know, i'm just bias... :sly:

there is now an LSx version of the stalker...

but it does seem like they would have put something in a bit more high-end, like the donkervoort.
 
OK8
I still can't believe the R500 isn't in the game.
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i was watch a vid recently of a r500 chasing a porsche around the ring recently, cant remember which porsche but it was giving it a whooping. im fairly sure it was one of the fast porchses
 
shigllgetcha
i was watch a vid recently of a r500 chasing a porsche around the ring recently, cant remember which porsche but it was giving it a whooping. im fairly sure it was one of the fast porchses
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The very first thing me and my friend though we'd do when gt5 comes out was to recreate that battle. Too bad the r500 isn't in nor any porsches.

We did have an absolutely thrilling battle round the ring in our gt-life cars though (I tried to set up my mazda eunos roadster to be as tight and "knife-edge" as the caterham but couldn't get it right), which compensated a lot! I wish I could upload it to youtube but have no means to capture video off my ps3 :grumpy:
 
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The Caterham, and other very lightweight cars for that matter, seem to show an oddity with the physics on GT5 (GT4 too.) Very lightweight cars such as the Seven seem to be very sluggish off the line; in standard tune it only manages to get to sixty in around six seconds, whereas in reality it would be close to half that. It isn't anything to do with the way it is geared, a car with so little inertia would have no problem overcoming that. I'm almost certain it is a quirk of the physics modelling in the game.

I also own a Subaru 360, and for a laugh I threw every part possible at it. Now, a car with 60-ish bhp, weighing 350kg and wearing slick tyres would, in reality, get to 60mph much quicker than fourteen seconds.

Its a shame, as I really want to use the Caterham more, but it is nowhere as quick as I would hope, or indeed, as it should be.
 
The Super 7, can be fitted with either an Suzuki Hayabusa or a Ford Zetec, saw one in Toronto the other day :D
 
If your are looking at what real caterhams are about look at any of the below.

http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/preowned-search.html
Used Superlights from Caterham themselves (current stock)

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/li...ze=100&xsl=gallery&y1=&y2=&d=0&dist=&nodays=0
Caterhams currently for sale on pistonheads.

You will note that specs go from old ford xflow engines, bec (bike engined caterham) to the current superlights running ford duratec 2litre na. with 263bhp.

As an aside there is a supercharged duratec being built at the moment with circa 430bhp and over 300bhp is do-able from the na. 2litre.

Fireblade for sale here http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2111089.htm
this car is one of only 25 ever made, a very rare car indeed but not as rare as the blackbird, I think only 7 of which were ever made.
 
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Have had the pleasure of driving these cars in rel life and it was without doubt the best driving experience I've ever had. I also own a MK2 Golf GTI which felt like I was driving sitting on a pile of books with the handbrake on when I jumped into it after a day with the Caterhams.

If any of you guys are ever in Scotland I strongly suggest taking these cars out for a day. There is a place in Perth that hires them out.
http://www.openroadhire.co.uk

Here are some pics of our day...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sprotty/sets/72157623619200549/show/
 
There is a guy here in our Stalker group in the states building a Brunton Stalker up with an LS7. It is going to be sick!

main.php
 
pippin4652
The Caterham, and other very lightweight cars for that matter, seem to show an oddity with the physics on GT5 (GT4 too.) Very lightweight cars such as the Seven seem to be very sluggish off the line; in standard tune it only manages to get to sixty in around six seconds, whereas in reality it would be close to half that. It isn't anything to do with the way it is geared, a car with so little inertia would have no problem overcoming that. I'm almost certain it is a quirk of the physics modelling in the game.

I also own a Subaru 360, and for a laugh I threw every part possible at it. Now, a car with 60-ish bhp, weighing 350kg and wearing slick tyres would, in reality, get to 60mph much quicker than fourteen seconds.

Its a shame, as I really want to use the Caterham more, but it is nowhere as quick as I would hope, or indeed, as it should be.
Click to expand...

I've noticed this, too. The first thing I did to my Fireblade was change the flywheel, thinking PD'd stuck a heavy, car-engine flywheel on it stock (revving freely takes forever, for some reason) but that didn't fix it.
Gear ratios were next on the list, but they seemed right when I compared to videos on the internet, speed-wise. Yes, it's a bike engine / gearbox combo, but the final-drive will have been tuned to suit the car, so I assume the ratios are correct ingame.

I have similar problems with the Honda S500 and S600 (eagerly awaiting an S800) which also seem very sluggish; even when free-revving, which should be really snappy for a carb'd engine from a motorcycle manufacturer using a needle- / roller-bearing crank!

They're all great in the corners, and on the brakes, but something is seriously up with their acceleration under power at low speeds! Perhaps the overall inertia of the drivetrain is incorrectly set, causing the power drop at the wheels to be massive relative to the engine's output.
Another theory I had was about the clutch, which does very strange things when "slipping". It's almost like the engine's output is limited to what the clutch can take when it's slipping, so that only a fraction of the fraction of the torque that should be transmitted, is transmitted. If you follow. At least, that's how it feels.
The car barely accelerates with the clutch slipping, which is totally incorrect. Hill starts are a complete bugger in any car, and gear changes can be very slippy even with clutch upgrades.
 
Gear ratios are correct but PD has forgotten the drop ratio which means that the gearboc main shaft only turns at circa 2/3rds of crankshaft speed so all of the gearing is too tall by a factor of 50%.
 
As Griffith mentions, the problem is probably engine inertia, although seeing other vehicles, probably it's been indirectly improved compared to past games as, at least for standard cars, it's most probably a calculated value (depending on the engine power and displacement I think).
The engine (and other similar japanese small displacement ones) should rev like a motorcycle engine in neutral.
The fact is that most standard cars haven't been touched since GT4. When PD will start correcting their bugs, specifications and technical data one by one, they will probably fix this and other similar oddities.
 
c7mpr
Gear ratios are correct but PD has forgotten the drop ratio which means that the gearboc main shaft only turns at circa 2/3rds of crankshaft speed so all of the gearing is too tall by a factor of 50%.
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Is this a common feature in motorcycle gearboxes? I guess it's naturally geared since the gearbox is parallel to the engine, rather than in line with it. I never stopped to notice if there was an obvious difference in the gear pair, though. :boggled:

@ SHIRAKAWA Akira it's a shame they didn't pick up on it before release, since the main attraction of the standard cars is their variety, and hence these "hidden" little gems. It's quite frustrating when they don't turn out to be as "fun" as they ought to be! I think you're on the right lines with a calculated inertia value, which perhaps isn't suited to very small displacement engines or doesn't allow for anomalies like this Caterham.

I can only hope they do patch it, but that might cause continuity issues for lap times / online records (if that ever gets implemented globally) etc.
 
Griffith500
I've noticed this, too. The first thing I did to my Fireblade was change the flywheel, thinking PD'd stuck a heavy, car-engine flywheel on it stock (revving freely takes forever, for some reason) but that didn't fix it.
Gear ratios were next on the list, but they seemed right when I compared to videos on the internet, speed-wise. Yes, it's a bike engine / gearbox combo, but the final-drive will have been tuned to suit the car, so I assume the ratios are correct ingame.

I have similar problems with the Honda S500 and S600 (eagerly awaiting an S800) which also seem very sluggish; even when free-revving, which should be really snappy for a carb'd engine from a motorcycle manufacturer using a needle- / roller-bearing crank!

They're all great in the corners, and on the brakes, but something is seriously up with their acceleration under power at low speeds! Perhaps the overall inertia of the drivetrain is incorrectly set, causing the power drop at the wheels to be massive relative to the engine's output.
Another theory I had was about the clutch, which does very strange things when "slipping". It's almost like the engine's output is limited to what the clutch can take when it's slipping, so that only a fraction of the fraction of the torque that should be transmitted, is transmitted. If you follow. At least, that's how it feels.
The car barely accelerates with the clutch slipping, which is totally incorrect. Hill starts are a complete bugger in any car, and gear changes can be very slippy even with clutch upgrades.
Click to expand...

I noticed this too, even when slamming on the throttle from standing the car just pulls away slow like TC is on, even though it's off! This happens in quite a few cars. Shame really, I can take my Cat in rFactor and burnout to my hearts content. Not in GT5 though, it's a bit of a shame :(
 
Just did a few tests with gearboxes etc.

The close ratio 6-speed gives a 149 mph top speed, and the fully customised 'box with the same top speed gives the same ratios. The problem with that is the engine sits at 5600 rpm at 70 mph in top gear; I'm not sure, but that seems a touch high. With the stock ratios, it's 4200 rpm, which seems more reasonable. Adjusting these with the possibly missing 3/2 transfer before the gearbox gives a theoretical top speed of 133 mph and a lofty 6300 rpm at cruising speed.

Anyway, the clutch dragging really kills acceleration, since it doesn't transmit any torque whilst slipping. Since the engine takes forever to get down to the required rpm for the next gear, it's acceleration is further stunted. I can only get 7.5 - ish second 0-60 mph time out of it - not exactly rapid, and that's with the "crossed" ratios!

Here's a table of gear ratios for those interested:

-------------------------------------
|...| Stock |. 3/2 .| cross | Fully |
|...|.......| modded| ratio | cust. |
-------------------------------------
|.1 | 2.769 | 4.154 | 5.432 | 4.704 |
|.2 | 2.000 | 3.000 | 3.819 | 3.150 |
|.3 | 1.578 | 2.367 | 2.860 | 2.293 |
|.4 | 1.400 | 2.100 | 2.240 | 1.750 |
|.5 | 1.250 | 1.875 | 1.835 | 1.402 |
|.6 | 1.173 | 1.760 | 1.571 | 1.178 |
|.F | 3.270 | 3.270 | 3.270 | 3.270 |
|top|. 199 .|. 133 .|. 149 .|. 199 .|
-------------------------------------

Now it's just a case of finding the actual gear ratios of the car in question. The real issue, though, is how the car is still ridiculously slow even with more sprightly gear ratios. The apparent inertia in the engine makes controlling wheelspin harder, too. This is because it takes a while for the wheels to grip again once traction is broken and the throttle is released, because it takes the engine so long to wind up and down! This was a horrible problem in previous GTs, too.

__________________

EDIT: Using the 199 mph top speed and a redline of 12000 rpm, we get a wheel diameter of about 21.25 inches. The real car rolls 205 / 55 R13s on the rear, which work out at 21.9 inches. So the rear wheels are roughly correct, and the in-game car should be a smidgen nippier than the real thing.
I also found out that the Fireblade has a live rear axle, and that a Morris Ital has a final drive ratio of 3.27, and is a live axle :D

So, it all seems to be alright, unless they really did forget the 3/2 drop-down in the 'box. It's just that ridiculous engine inertia and rubbish clutch physics!
 
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I need one of these :D any ideas how often they come up in the used car dealership?
 
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My favorite car IRL, I only wish it is a premium car. hit me up for some one make race online.
 

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