Change my Mind: The used car dealership is a pointless waste of time.

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I just don't understand the fascination of the used car dealership. Other than having a 'few miles on the clock', which literally means nothing in GT, and the car requiring a very cheap oil change, the only reason to buy a used car is because it's cheaper. Okay great. What I don't understand is why not just bring all the prices of the cars in the game down, so that there's no need for a used car dealership? I don't understand and probably will never understand the hype of a used car dealership. It's just a place to buy the car you want a little cheaper, and having an entire mode worshipped by fans that is essentially the same as buying a normal car is baffling to me. Not to mention credits are easy to come buy so buying the car you want is never a problem anyway, providing you're actually playing the game. This is just a game, not real life, so there doesn't need to be price inflation on vehicles just to accommodate a mode that simulates 'used vehicles'.

What am I missing here?
 
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Liquid

Fission Mailed
Premium
25,995
Slovakia
Bratvegas
GTP_Liquid
I'm not saying that it was ever implemented brilliantly but I did, and still do, like the GT1 and GT2 idea of coming back to a specific manufacturer and them having different cars each time. GT4 and GT5's one big lump sum wasn't great but specific ones for Mitsubishi, Toyota, Nissan and so on from the first games was neat.

"Ooh, today there's the 92 GTO twinturbo!"
"Nice, an A70 Supra!"
"Cool, finally an R32 Skyline!"

It wasn't perfect, I'm sure lots of people dislike it, and not being able to select colours was really annoying but it offered an element in gameplay as close as you can get to looking through classified car ads.
 
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893
United States
Madison, WI
FerrariF1GT
FerrariFan24
Getting an affordable and relatively high-performance car (compared to new cars at similar prices) in the early part of the game is the appeal to me.

…even though I just earn all the gold licenses so I get some cars to start right away, so make of that what you will.
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
77,396
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
The basic premise, in the first games at least, was you can go to the car dealer and buy a brand new car out of the showroom, but if you wanted to buy something older you had to buy secondhand, so it would have some miles on it.

It's part of the car culture ethos behind the Gran Turismo series, because it's literally what car kids do (except for the car finance part which isn't in the game). You go lay down 30 large for a GT86, or you pick up a £2k Civic and mod the crap out of it.

In GT Sport (and GT3), everything was new, with new - or current auction - prices and no miles... which doesn't make much sense. Nobody's picking up a 1972 Alpine A110 in mint, showroom condition with 0 miles on it for £100,000, but in the GT Sport world you do.

GT7 looks to be returning to that more car culture-oriented way, but with the addition of Brighton Antiques to provide that prestige car sales/auction face of modern motoring. So now you get new cars with 0 miles from the car dealer, used cars with some miles under the belt from a used car dealer for less money, and rare and desirable older cars also appearing as used cars but from a specialist outlet.
 
1,377
Indonesia
Indonesia
Games can just implement some kind of immersion even if it won't make things easier for the player, or probably what you don't realize but tolerate better, like working your way up either in money, or for other games, something like car performance starting from the bottom for sport racing games if you're recently starting. Like others said, there are cars that can be brand new, and sold in the dealer, but there are cars that are not produced anymore, so they won't be sold on dealers anymore, and you gotta find them somewhere else. This is GT's immersion of looking through classified car ads for buying cars.

And personally, one of main appeal of GT is the wide and free choice you can do when buying your starter car (or what amount of money to start depending on the bought car), while most other games just gives a handful of cars for a player to pick (even Forza). Albeit this can be done without used car dealership too like GT3, but the choices aren't as many.
I'm not saying that it was ever implemented brilliantly but I did, and still do, like the GT1 and GT2 idea of coming back to a specific manufacturer and them having different cars each time. GT4 and GT5's one big lump sum wasn't great but specific ones for Mitsubishi, Toyota, Nissan and so on from the first games was neat.
More like GT5 only, and it's not actual Used Car dealership (albeit it functions the same) but Standard Cars dealership. GT4 works like usual just not in brands, where yeah it's divided by 3 era (80s, early 90s, late 90s), with the new cars are mostly for cars from 2000 and above.
In GT Sport (and GT3), everything was new, with new - or current auction - prices and no miles... which doesn't make much sense. Nobody's picking up a 1972 Alpine A110 in mint, showroom condition with 0 miles on it for £100,000, but in the GT Sport world you do.
And GT6... though I do want to see how the car list will be sorted, if all 1200 cars are available at one place (and it's done).
GT7 looks to be returning to that more car culture-oriented way, but with the addition of Brighton Antiques to provide that prestige car sales/auction face of modern motoring. So now you get new cars with 0 miles from the car dealer, used cars with some miles under the belt from a used car dealer for less money, and rare and desirable older cars also appearing as used cars but from a specialist outlet.
So a different way from GT4's, but done (unlike GT5, used cars was more of a place for standard cars), where memorable classic cars is placed in Legendary Cars/Classics section, still separate from new cars (mostly from '00 onwards) but is sold as brand new in the dealer. GT7 still separates memorable classic cars from used cars but also had them being used in Brighton instead of being brand new like GT4.
 
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168
Germany
Halle
soltonatural
The basic premise, in the first games at least, was you can go to the car dealer and buy a brand new car out of the showroom, but if you wanted to buy something older you had to buy secondhand, so it would have some miles on it.

It's part of the car culture ethos behind the Gran Turismo series, because it's literally what car kids do (except for the car finance part which isn't in the game). You go lay down 30 large for a GT86, or you pick up a £2k Civic and mod the crap out of it.

In GT Sport (and GT3), everything was new, with new - or current auction - prices and no miles... which doesn't make much sense. Nobody's picking up a 1972 Alpine A110 in mint, showroom condition with 0 miles on it for £100,000, but in the GT Sport world you do.

GT7 looks to be returning to that more car culture-oriented way, but with the addition of Brighton Antiques to provide that prestige car sales/auction face of modern motoring. So now you get new cars with 0 miles from the car dealer, used cars with some miles under the belt from a used car dealer for less money, and rare and desirable older cars also appearing as used cars but from a specialist outlet.
Everything you said is correct, and makes perfect sense. But let's not forget one thing:
it's just a game.
 
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42,129
Australia
Australia
Everything you said is correct, and makes perfect sense. But let's not forget one thing:
it's just a game.
It’s like playing with Slot cars, r/c cars and hot wheels. Imagining racing, driving, painting, modifying and admiring those cars up close. On screen, we can do the same and more for less than the equivalent slot car, r/c and hot wheels packages. Instead of one car for r/c, two for slot cars and anywhere from 5-100 hot wheels cars, as a starter(GT7 stars us with over 420) and one track(though we can make some variations with hot wheels and slot cars). We get 90 plus tracks With dry and simulated weather. Ya ain’t getting that with any ordinary game as a starter.
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
77,396
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
Everything you said is correct, and makes perfect sense. But let's not forget one thing:
it's just a game.
Yeah, that'll be why I pointed out that it's the ethos behind the game, and mentioned the fact it's a game in the first sentence:
The basic premise, in the first games at least, was you can go to the car dealer and buy a brand new car out of the showroom, but if you wanted to buy something older you had to buy secondhand, so it would have some miles on it.

It's part of the car culture ethos behind the Gran Turismo series, because it's literally what car kids do (except for the car finance part which isn't in the game). You go lay down 30 large for a GT86, or you pick up a £2k Civic and mod the crap out of it.

In GT Sport (and GT3), everything was new, with new - or current auction - prices and no miles... which doesn't make much sense. Nobody's picking up a 1972 Alpine A110 in mint, showroom condition with 0 miles on it for £100,000, but in the GT Sport world you do.

GT7 looks to be returning to that more car culture-oriented way, but with the addition of Brighton Antiques to provide that prestige car sales/auction face of modern motoring. So now you get new cars with 0 miles from the car dealer, used cars with some miles under the belt from a used car dealer for less money, and rare and desirable older cars also appearing as used cars but from a specialist outlet.
The GT series has always been built off the basis of being "Car-obsessed Japanese Teenager: The Game". Used cars has, although not necessarily making it into every title, been part of that.
 
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LeGeNd-1

Premium
7,022
Australia
Australia
GTP_LeGeNd-1
I agree with the OP. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to car collecting so I like to have all the cars available at all times in one place, with 0 miles on the clock, and able to be bought in the colour that I want. The last point isn't such a big issue with livery editor, but as any collector knows, painting your yellow Ferrari red isn't the same as having Rosso Corsa as the original paint colour.

People say used cars are cheaper, but the savings are not that much. In GT5 a 1 million new car for example, would just be reduced to around 900,000. And that's before you have to do engine and chassis rebuilds, which are also more expensive with higher priced cars.

Then there's also the issue with certain cars being rarer than others, and you're stuck if that car is needed in a specific GT league race (e.g. Sport Truck or Formula GT race). I remember having to spam enter-quit races just to advance days to get those cars to show up in GT5 UCD. And I'm sorry, no matter how much nostalgia rose tinted glasses you have that's just not fun gameplay. It's just a boring waste of time.

Finally, used cars in real life often have interesting history associated with them. Old race cars have competition history and normal cars have interesting things that the owner can talk about. No such thing in a game. At the end of the day, they're the same 0s and 1s in the game code. Except they're nerfed in performance and you can't pick a colour.

The immersion argument isn't great either. If everything is the same as real life, only 36 lucky players can ever buy the 250 GTO. No one wants that.

So yeah, scrap the UCD and Brighton Antiques. In their place, add two new features:
  • Tuning Store - people can post car setups to download and apply to your car. No need to copy finnicky gear ratios one by one anymore.
  • Upcoming Car Vote - PD can post a list of cars they are thinking of including in the game, and people can vote for which one they want to see first. PD are still in control of what cars end up in GT, but at least they know which one to prioritise in modelling first.
 
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1,377
Indonesia
Indonesia
I agree with the OP. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to car collecting so I like to have all the cars available at all times in one place, with 0 miles on the clock, and able to be bought in the colour that I want. The last point isn't such a big issue with livery editor, but as any collector knows, painting your yellow Ferrari red isn't the same as having Rosso Corsa as the original paint colour.
Ofc it's different, and GT Auto should provide factory colors when changing car colors too.
Then there's also the issue with certain cars being rarer than others, and you're stuck if that car is needed in a specific GT league race (e.g. Sport Truck or Formula GT race). I remember having to spam enter-quit races just to advance days to get those cars to show up in GT5 UCD. And I'm sorry, no matter how much nostalgia rose tinted glasses you have that's just not fun gameplay. It's just a boring waste of time.
That's GT5 thing, because there are 800+ standard cars, and Used Cars are meant to store standard cars instead of dividing cars by year. It's not about the used cars problem, but the execution problem as in GT5 displays 30/cycle in 800+ list. The rarer cars in GT7 would be separated and exclusively displayed in Brighton Antiques instead of being lumped together like GT5 (in addition to 30 of 800), though GT4 was the one that displays those rare cars as 'new', but is on Legendary Cars/Classics section of the dealership.

I think for the advancing days, I though GT should revamp their calendar system; like you can click on any date to advance the time into that day (and you can open the calendar by clicking the date on the status window). I'd like other functions too though like
more detailed and varied day progression compared to GT4 (where each activities use up 1 day), do activities that won't take up more days than the races when you suspend Championship, etc.
 
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Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,871
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
I agree with the OP. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to car collecting so I like to have all the cars available at all times in one place, with 0 miles on the clock, and able to be bought in the colour that I want. The last point isn't such a big issue with livery editor, but as any collector knows, painting your yellow Ferrari red isn't the same as having Rosso Corsa as the original paint colour.

People say used cars are cheaper, but the savings are not that much. In GT5 a 1 million new car for example, would just be reduced to around 900,000. And that's before you have to do engine and chassis rebuilds, which are also more expensive with higher priced cars.
Personally I enjoy finding out what new cars are in the UCD and finding the rare gems. Of course it makes more sense to have such a system if the cars require more than just an oil change to restore them, and in GT7 there appears to be a rating system of some kind, and we know engine wear and what we presume is chassis wear is returning. So perhaps a cars condition will influence it's cost.
Then there's also the issue with certain cars being rarer than others, and you're stuck if that car is needed in a specific GT league race (e.g. Sport Truck or Formula GT race). I remember having to spam enter-quit races just to advance days to get those cars to show up in GT5 UCD. And I'm sorry, no matter how much nostalgia rose tinted glasses you have that's just not fun gameplay. It's just a boring waste of time.
That's a seprate game deisgn issue, most notably present in GT5, I don't recall having that promblem with GT1, 2 or 4. Yes it was a real issue in GT5, but that's something that can easilly be fixed with a bit of thought about the cars that cycle in the UCD and what cars you need for certain events.
Finally, used cars in real life often have interesting history associated with them. Old race cars have competition history and normal cars have interesting things that the owner can talk about. No such thing in a game. At the end of the day, they're the same 0s and 1s in the game code. Except they're nerfed in performance and you can't pick a colour.
Agan, game design issues, the chassis refresh and engine overhaul featuers should be capable of restoring the engine and chassis to new condition.
The immersion argument isn't great either. If everything is the same as real life, only 36 lucky players can ever buy the 250 GTO. No one wants that.
Why bother using real cars then? Real race tracks? Why make the cars look realistic? Have realisitc physics? Why imitate realitiy at all for anything else? If the counter argument is do it all or do nothing, then scrap everything remotely realistic about the game.

Not everything should be, can be or is needed to be the same as real life. You pull immersion from different things, and this is where personal preference and opinion matter. There's nothing wrong with disliking the UCD, but there's nothing wrong with those that do either. It's certainly had it's problems, most notably in GT5, but it's also provided people with a lot of enjoyment.
So yeah, scrap the UCD and Brighton Antiques. In their place, add two new features:
  • Tuning Store - people can post car setups to download and apply to your car. No need to copy finnicky gear ratios one by one anymore.
  • Upcoming Car Vote - PD can post a list of cars they are thinking of including in the game, and people can vote for which one they want to see first. PD are still in control of what cars end up in GT, but at least they know which one to prioritise in modelling first.
No reason not to add those features (or similar) regarldess of the UCD, though I doubt they'd include an upcoming car vote. Half the cars they include are pushed on them by the manufacturers and for the rest they likely select cars based on licensing, cost, time to model and availaiblity of data so it's probably far more complicated than such a feature would reasonably allow. And whatever they pick, they won't please everyone.
 
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480
Croatia
Croatia
Well IMO the used car dealership has a purpose when used like in GT2. In GT mode you buy new cars at the brand dealer, older cars at the UCD. In Arcade mode all cars are available at the same place.

Part of the charm for many is buying a cheap beater, fixing it up, upgrading... But that whole system could be fleshed out more. Used cars should really look and feel actually used. For example:

Gran-Turismo-7-PS5-12.jpeg


All these cars look and (will probably) feel brand new to drive. So the only thing making them "used" is the random mileage number.

Some cars could have scratched/faded paint (not hard to make a shader for that), cheap steel wheels, some could be damaged, dusty... Hell, model some empty beer cans and place them around the interior :lol:... If mechanical damage exists, some chould already have it. Some should be personalized, maybe a sticker here and there, body parts, random license plates... some should be pristine of course, but not all.

They could even tie that in with other game systems as well, why not inspect a used car in VR? For immersion if nothing else.

Then the player can decide if they want to buy it and take steps to fix them up and purchase parts to restore them to factory condition. I get that this may became tedious after a while or uninteresting to some players, so they can implement an option that calculates the cost of the restoration and does it automatically if you have the money for it.

By doing that you add a gameplay element to the UCD and make it feel less clinical while also making GT Auto more useful.

As it is now you Buy a brand-new looking 97 Civic from the UCD and click the "restore rigidity" button for X amount of credits. This doesn't actually feel like you did much to your car. I think the whole used car thing could be a lot more personal than it is and then it would make more sense.
 
8,579
Denmark
Denmark
I agree with the OP. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to car collecting so I like to have all the cars available at all times in one place, with 0 miles on the clock, and able to be bought in the colour that I want.
Agreed. One can only hope the Brand Central will have zero mileage equivalents of all cars. I’m not counting on it though. As you say, buying any car fresh without maintenace requirements and in colour of choice is just a better feeling.
 
42,129
Australia
Australia
Wonder how it’d work if people sold their car and whatever data is collected, is applied to a used car of the same model in the UCD. Not as the exact same car, but with that car’s data. Had another thought of a players actual used car and the price varies by its use.

Say, a player that has won many FIA or Daily or Lobby or Career races with that car. A car with zero mileage. A car that has been with a player the longest. A car that was driven cleanly in x amount of races. A car that had many changes(livery, tuning, customisation, oil changes).
 
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1,192
Portugal
Setúbal
dacc10
How much of an uproar would that example of voting be? Majority voted for that New Farrari ultra-hyper-superfast car and we miss out on the 1983 Toyota Corona S. Dagnabbit!:sly:
Ah yes, the Corona... a must have in a game like this. It's actually quite normal, that the most popular car would get the most votes (or cars, since if that was the case, the top 5 or so would get modeled, and not one specific model).

Though I don't think it would work, as it would take several months to get the top voted cars actually in the game.

As for the used car dealership, it can be quite useful, if they make the in-game economy balanced, specificaly the prices.
 
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4,431
Brazil
São Paulo / Bra
diegorborges82
First, nostalgia... second: it makes sense as already stated, you can't get a 0 mile '72 Alpine irl, for example.

And I really, really love that it's back <3

But yes, the whole experience can be improved upon what we had, some ideas:

  • 0 miles old cars should be given as prize cars/seasonal prizes, making them attainable but rare and really collectible.
  • Used cars should look used as also said in some post above: they could come with different/used rims, maybe a random sticker? And other details... a bit of history? Even if random or just data/words/numbers thrown around. (this car was owned from an Oklahoma lady that only used it for shool runs. - buy yes, imagine translating all that...)
  • Our cars value should fluctuate based on car rarity/wins/mileage/upgrades
  • Having an online auction house to trade those.
 
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Veinz

Premium
3,833
Canada
Ontario
Little details like this add up and bring a sense of ownership into these games. I didn’t get this same feeling from GTS which in turn made it feel kind of shallow, especially from a single player perspective.
 
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HyperSpeeder

(Banned)
955
Brazil
Brazil
They could increase damage detail and make it so it was really expensive to repair, with the possibility of scrapping your car if damage is terminal. IMO, damage should be expensive in the game and forced on in career, in order to make you drive cleanly. But people would complain it's too difficult, too realistic.
 
4,257
Australia
Australia
It works if the economy is good. GT1 worked because all cars were less than 15 years old at the time, It's not a showpiece feature though.

Part of the draw was that the used car lot meant you could buy different color cars. That's no longer an issue with the livery editor.
 
42,129
Australia
Australia
Pointed out before, a new car can be sold as used. Thing is, a 1983 AE86 is going to be a used car.
It's not a waste of time, waiting for one to pop up in the used car market.

I mean, will it make sense to have the Alfa 155 as a Manufacturer choice for FIA, but it's not in the UCD? Or have it as a zero mileage car, in the NCD or in the Brighton warehouse?
 

LeGeNd-1

Premium
7,022
Australia
Australia
GTP_LeGeNd-1
Dunno about other people, but I get a better sense of ownership putting my own 1000 miles on an Alpine A110 than buying one with "ghost" 10,000 miles on the clock :lol:

And again, the realism argument doesn't make sense. Of course you want more realism, but in things that actually makes sense from a gameplay perspective. When many of the cars don't even perform like they should IRL, having a UCD wannabe craigslist doesn't really compensate for the other shortcomings of the game. It's just an easy way for PD to tickle all those nostalgic fans without really innovating anything new.

Regardless, it looks like the UCD crowd is gonna get what they want, so this discussion is a moot point.
 
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1,192
Portugal
Setúbal
dacc10
There's no such thing as UCD crowd. :lol:

It's one feature that some may enjoy, some may not. As is any other feature in any game ever. With the difference that this is not a game breaking feature. It's already in the game, and what people should really discuss about it, are the prices in the Used Car Dealership.

In GT4, it was useful since it was the only way to get a decent car for a low price in early game. In GT7 could/should be the same, plus the nostalgia. It's not a must have, neither it is a deal breaker.
 
2,259
Brazil
Brazil
It depends on what kind of experience people want from a racing game.
Car Wash is still the most useless mechanic in all GT games but i love it same goes for oil change.Part of the charm was seing the animation with the goofy music in the background,it's that goofy vibe Gran Turismo always had under the hood.
I would love if they went comically in depth with the used cars:
-AD:MIATA mint condition,good engine-
Then you buy the car and the suspension is busted oil keeps leaking and the wheel keeps pulling right. 😂