Chrysler Delta

[SuperShouden]

Seriously? If Fiat wants to give America the Delta, then give us the true Lancia Delta. Although, I doubt we'll be seeing this Delta on the rally circuit.

 

[Robin]

Geez. Just how bad is Lancia viewed in Europe that badging cars as Chryslers is seen as the better alternative? All of the reactions in this thread are like the exact opposite of what I was expecting.

Have a watch of the Top Gear Lancia tribute and it will explain some of it... Also the reputation is not ruined in continental Europe, mainly just in the UK.

 

[Sniffs]

sounds like what I was trying to convince Leonidae about last night, concerning Fiat's old rep in the US. he found a X1/9 in cali for only three grand and was complaining it was too cheap. had to tell him that fiats used to disintegrate the minute they got here

 

[JacoJa]

Oh wait it's just a Sebring. Nevermind.

Speaking of the devil... We were walking through a massive car park the other week on the way back from a shopping centre, and I walked past a third-generation Sebring convertible. It's without a doubt one of the worst looking cars on sale in Australia, so naturally we all laughed and pointed at the hideous proportions of the body. A few second later, the Sebring's doors unlocked. The owner of the car was walking right next to us the entire time!

As for the Delta; I love it. I think it does look odd in some of the pictures I've seen online. In other angles, it looks excellent (see picture below). It's a real shame it won't be coming down here anytime soon.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I think the Lancia Delta is design-wise a very interesting car. Wouldn't call it beautiful, but it sure is appealing, and turns some heads because it's just different.

About why there a problem with the Lancia brand in the UK I don't know. No problem here (well, italian cars usually have the reputation of being less well-built than germans, but that applies to all italian brands, not specifically about Lancia).

And a ... Chrysler Delta ... makes as much sense as a Chevrolet Giullieta ...

 

[Jondot]

Speaking of the devil... We were walking through a massive car park the other week on the way back from a shopping centre, and I walked past a third-generation Sebring convertible. It's without a doubt one of the worst looking cars on sale in Australia, so naturally we all laughed and pointed at the hideous proportions of the body. A few second later, the Sebring's doors unlocked. The owner of the car was walking right next to us the entire time!

Oh god aren't they. Terrifyingly huge, too - I'm convinced the nearest thing on sale dimensions-wise is the Rolls Phantom Drophead.

 

[homeforsummer]

Geez. Just how bad is Lancia viewed in Europe that badging cars as Chryslers is seen as the better alternative? All of the reactions in this thread are like the exact opposite of what I was expecting.

Lancia is a bit unfortunate really. It all started when Fiat couldn't decide what they wanted the brand to be. It had loads of rallying success, but Fiat already had Alfa Romeo as a sporty brand and Fiat filled the bottom of the market, so the only alternative was to go for the luxury market.

Unfortunately, all they had to work with were some slightly crappy Fiats and for most of the last 20 years Lancias have been relatively average cars with bodywork that leans slightly towards the ugly.

Now, they're still building cars on good Fiat platforms with a bit more luxury (Ypsilon, Delta) but have access to Chrysler so they can compete in higher markets too. The current 300C-based model is certainly a better bet than the previous Thesis.

The trouble now isn't so much the product as the branding.

They can't sell as Lancias in the UK because of three reasons:

a) The rallying heritage means pretty much nothing to non motorsport people
b) People remember old, rusty Lancias
c) Everyone else has forgotten that Lancia exists, so it'd be like starting with a brand new company, which is very risky.

Instead, they'll sell them under Chrysler, which has been by far and away the most successful American car company to sell in Europe (though Chevy could now be catching up). Whatever badge stigma Chrysler might have in the States doesn't really apply over here - the UK snapped up Voyagers, PT Cruisers and the like and 300Cs are absolutely everywhere, no doubt helped by the Mercedes diesel option we got.

They can't sell Lancia and Chryslers side-by-side in Europe because they'd snatch sales from each other.

All of this means Lancia is still being kicked around a bit and nobody knows quite what to do with it. Personally, I quite like the rebadged Chrysler Lancias (well, apart from the Flavia/Sebring convertible). I've had a look around a few and they look and feel classy enough for either brand. I think the actual Fiat Lancias, the Delta and Ypsilon, are hideous, and I'd rather the Fiats they're based on (in fact, I'd prefer my Panda to any of the other cars on the same 500/Ypsilon/Ka platform).

 

[YSSMAN]

Who wants to see the new Flavia!

Oh wait it's just a Sebring. Nevermind.

Here's the thing though...

The 200C Convertible is a surprisingly nice car. Having spent a lot of time with its predecessor on various vacations around this great country of ours, the combination of the refreshed interior and improved mechanical bits make everything pretty impressive for a sub-$30K four-seat convertible.

I'm not sure if you guys are getting the hard-top and the Pentastar V6. That combo is pretty impressive if you ask me.

 

[Exorcet]

Surprisingly nice car. Having spent a lot of time with its predecessor on various vacations around this great country of ours, the combination of the refreshed interior and improved mechanical bits make everything pretty impressive for a sub-$30K four-seat convertible.

I still think it's one of the biggest diasters in Chrysler's history. The concept was a sporty RWD model, which could have promised to be a smaller, nimbler 300. Instead we essentially end up with Sebring MK II.

I don't understand Chrysler's business model. Chrysler is trying to be an imitation luxury brand and harming its image in the process. Dodge could easily take over what Chrysler doing (the cars are exactly the same anyway) and let Chrysler move up to take on Cadillac, BMW, and the other high end brands.

 

[Sniffs]

*snip*

They can't sell as Lancias in the UK because of three reasons:

a) The rallying heritage means pretty much nothing to non motorsport people
b) People remember old, rusty Lancias
c) Everyone else has forgotten that Lancia exists, so it'd be like starting with a brand new company, which is very risky.

*snip*

this is what I was trying to tell leonidae about fiat's rep

this is the same reason fiat didn't even try, and why it's a stunner that they even thought about it.

 

[homeforsummer]

this is what I was trying to tell leonidae about fiat's rep

this is the same reason fiat didn't even try, and why it's a stunner that they even thought about it.

Though Fiat is now proving that they can start afresh in the States. The 500 is doing well, apparently.

 

[YSSMAN]

I still think it's one of the biggest diasters in Chrysler's history. The concept was a sporty RWD model, which could have promised to be a smaller, nimbler 300. Instead we essentially end up with Sebring MK II.

As I recall, the concept was a hybrid-electric sedan that was based on a shortened version of the LX platform. While it was feasible for production in that form, I wouldn't have ever expected to see much of it... aside from the shape... show up on dealer lots. It was an impressive piece of work from a company that was in the middle of a major transition, but that was about it.

All things considered, Chrysler has done a good job of transforming an underwhelming car into something that is, at the very least, competitive. Knowing that Fiat's product cycle intends to replace the car in the short term, it will be interesting to see what comes of the car in the next year or two, but I would not expect them to move away from the traditional front-wheel-drive layout.

I don't understand Chrysler's business model. Chrysler is trying to be an imitation luxury brand and harming its image in the process. Dodge could easily take over what Chrysler doing (the cars are exactly the same anyway) and let Chrysler move up to take on Cadillac, BMW, and the other high end brands.

You have to understand that Chrysler itself has never been a luxury brand to begin with. Brands like Desoto and Imperial were used to sell luxurious Chryslers throughout the 20th century, and it was not until the consolidation of the company in the '70s and '80s that placed Chrysler in an awkward middle-luxury ground. If you wind the clock back to, say, 1998... You'd see that, across the board, American luxury brands were hardly that. With Cadillac moving forward with the Art and Science mindset, they were able to become competitive with BMW and Lexus... Lincoln was left to rot while Ford dealt with Jaguar and Aston Martin, but with the old LPG brands gone, they too are moving Lincoln up to be more competitive, but not a direct competitor to Cadillac.

In the end, Chrysler ends up sitting on the middle ground of luxury that attracts a large amount of buyers, but does not offer the prestige of BMW or Lexus. Acura, Volvo, Saab and Buick all occupy this space, and while Chrysler may offer vehicles that are on the low and high end of that spectrum... They end up offering vehicles that are generally well-accepted by people of all economic classes.

The Chrysler brand strategy, going forward, will depend greatly on what Fiat decides to do with Alfa Romeo and Maserati, I assume. In that trio, it will be most-likely that Chrysler will serve as the entry-level brand that serves as the basis for a growing number of shared platforms and technology. My guess is that Chrysler will likely continue to serve as a middle-ground luxury brand that is affordable enough to those of us on the bottom, but value-laden for those at the top. Chrysler has little intention of competing directly with BMW and Lexus, I think. It just is not in their mindset.