Chrysler "eaten up" by a 3-Headed Dog...

[YSSMAN]

...but the H2 still sells the best...

I'd hardly call 12,000 H2s in 2006 'a sales success.' It is the H3 that sells the best. For example, more than 8,000 H3s were sold in Jan/Feb of 2006, nearly three-quarters of all Hummer sales for those first few months. I see more H3s now than H2s here in Michigan, and with the V8 engine option coming this year, I expect the H2 sales to drop even further now that the baby is stepping on it's toes.

---

PT Cruiser:

I was reading a discussion over at GMI and they had been quoting sales figures for the PT over the past few years. Nearly every year the car had been selling in excess of 150K units on average, and thus far this year had sold just short of 40K vehicles. Reportedly, Chrysler has finally decided to drop the ax on the PT (good choice), but not without serious complaints even from the GMI guys (odd, really).

Without a decent replacement, much less a market for a semi-premium hatchback wagon thingamajig, I don't see the future looking bright for the PT. Furthermore, with Chrysler switching hands, I doubt that Cerberus wants to do this all over again, particularly when they've already got the Caliber on the road.

 

[Jim Prower]

I'd hardly call 12,000 H2s in 2006 'a sales success.' It is the H3 that sells the best. For example, more than 8,000 H3s were sold in Jan/Feb of 2006, nearly three-quarters of all Hummer sales for those first few months. I see more H3s now than H2s here in Michigan, and with the V8 engine option coming this year, I expect the H2 sales to drop even further now that the baby is stepping on it's toes.

I haven't seen many H3s around here, but you've got the numbers. can't argue with that.

I was reading a discussion over at GMI and they had been quoting sales figures for the PT over the past few years. Nearly every year the car had been selling in excess of 150K units on average, and thus far this year had sold just short of 40K vehicles. Reportedly, Chrysler has finally decided to drop the ax on the PT (good choice), but not without serious complaints even from the GMI guys (odd, really).

Without a decent replacement, much less a market for a semi-premium hatchback wagon thingamajig, I don't see the future looking bright for the PT. Furthermore, with Chrysler switching hands, I doubt that Cerberus wants to do this all over again, particularly when they've already got the Caliber on the road.

I can't say what that is for sure. I think, despite being ancient, it has this charisma that it had when it was introduced. Call it "New Beetle Syndrome." Personally, I think the Caliber could go away, and underpin a new Cruiser. I've never been a fan of the "Power Wagon" look the Caliber (and, dear god, the Nitro) have, but the PT still makes me smile a little bit.

Dodge's replacement could be a sedan off the same platform. I think the "Wagon Plan" they had was a mistake for Dodge, and that a small Lancer-esque 4-door would fit in the lineup better. Letting the PT play "Tall wagon" for Chrysler, (I almost said DCX. This is not good for me...) with the charisma and brand recognition, could be a good deal.

In fact, combining the styling of the new Lancer and that little orange roadster concept they have out now...

EDIT: I'm sorry I now feel the need to go through the entire lineup...

Dodge: Mainstream brand, sporty edge

- Caliber: Replace with Sub-Avenger 4-Door. Lancer good place to start
- Avenger: What YSS said.
- Charger: " "
- Caravan: " "
- Sprinter: " "
- Dakota: New platform, please.
- Durango: Same as Dakota
- Ram: Same as Dakota. These three are now the oldest trucks on the Market, save for that damn Ranger...
- Nitro: It needs different styling. Dodge needs a player in this segment, but not such an ugly, standoffish one. cars that say "Please, dont approach me, I'm having a bad day every day of my life" don't sell very well...
- Viper: The V-10's getting far too long in the tooth. I say combine Hemi (and that's the 426) with the V-10, get over 600 HP out of 7.0L or less. That's right. The Viper needs a smaller engine that hits harder.

Chrysler: What YSS said.

- PT Cruiser: Take Caliber, re-body.
- Sebring: What YSS ...You know by now..
- 300: See YSS's Charger.
- Town and Country: YSS said it.
- Aspen: Agreed, Kill it
- Pacifica: does Chrysler really need an SUV of any sort? I say let Jeep handle it.
- Crossfire: Get rid of it, yes. Replace with that orange Dodge roadster that I can't think of right now.

Jeep: Current mission is fine.

- Compass: Yeah, an un-Trail-Rated Jeep is a blasphemy...
- Patriot: What YSS Said
- Wrangler: Agree on Diesel point, and on stripper model. Also think a Rally-inspired SRT model would be fun...
- Liberty: YSS on the ball again
- Cherokee: Coming up on platform refresh, I think.
- Commander: If it's too big for the Rubicon, It's too big for Jeep.

Engines
- I-4: Pretty good. Could be better.
- V-6: Take 3.5. Add twincam heads. also, De-stroke the current version to replace 2.7.
- HEMI: One gaping hole. a 426. think about it, a 7.0L Hemi that could compete wiht the 'Vette's upcoming mills.
- Diesel: Perhaps they could talk to Caterpillar. The Cummins is getting long-in-the-tooth; imagine a downsized ACERT, with it's sequential twin turbos, under the hood of your 1-ton Dually Ram. Mercedes diesels for cars and smaller trucks. If Merc's still interested.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

Chrysler: Mid-Level Luxury Brand: See Buick for Model

- PT Cruiser: Kill it now. Update or die!
- Sebring: Quality, diesel, etc. Oh, needs a new suspension. See Saturn Aura for a good example.
- 300: Increase quality, add diesel model.
- Town and Country: Good enough for now.
- Aspen: KILL IT NOW!
- Crossfire: KILL IT NOW! Possibly replace with Viper-based Firepower with HEMI V8. Low volume equals decent sales to MOPAR fans. I want this to not only knock-gloves with the Corvette, but I want to see this compared to the Z4 and SLK.

^ Yo dude, you forgot the Pacifica. I know that morbid wagon sucks, but I'd like to see your opinion on it.

 

[Jim Prower]

I forgot it too...

 

[YSSMAN]

^ Yo dude, you forgot the Pacifica. I know that morbid wagon sucks, but I'd like to see your opinion on it.

Yeah, I realized I forgot not only the Pacifica but the Nitro as well.

Nitro: Let Dodge keep it for a while, as it looks halfway decent, and may eventually steal some sales away from the Durango. It needs diesel power, more quality built-in, and if Dodge could do it, they should try to shoehorn a V8 in there...

Pacifica: This is one of those silent-hit cars that probably deserves a refresh. I have no idea what platform the Pacifica is built on, but clearly it needs to be updated sometime soon. An interesting twist to the car would be to build the next Pacifica on the LY chassis, offering a RWD and an AWD model with standard V6 and optional V8 models. Yes, it would step on the Magnum's toes, but that is what the increased ride-height is for...

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

Pacifica: This is one of those silent-hit cars that probably deserves a refresh. I have no idea what platform the Pacifica is built on, but clearly it needs to be updated sometime soon. An interesting twist to the car would be to build the next Pacifica on the LY chassis, offering a RWD and an AWD model with standard V6 and optional V8 models. Yes, it would step on the Magnum's toes, but that is what the increased ride-height is for...

^ The Pacifica is being built under the Caravan/Town & Country platform. Thats why you see that big round butt that they all share. And maybe the new Pacifica will be based on the next-gen '08 Caravan/T&C.

-> I don't really see that the Pacifica will step on Magnums toes, those two are in differrent categories, but oh well.

 

[Jim Prower]

I like That Idea....a V8-optionable, FR crossover.

Has that even been done?

((Then again, Chrysler already has the 300C Touring...))

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ But the 300C Touring/Wagon is only available in Europe, that car doesn't not even "exist" here in the US, we have the alternative in which that is the Dodge Magnum.

 

[Aquendwato]

So can we go back to calling it DaimlerBenz now?

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ Nope, according to sources, Chrysler will be called Chrysler Holdings and Daimler will be called just Daimler. Stupid if you ask me.

 

[Tornado]

It's too bad. I personally don't think Mercedes has been punished nearly enough for ruining Chrysler, but oh well.
Anyways, some points:

- Avenger: Increase quality even further, add diesel power, create an SRT model in low-volume numbers.

I have a better idea: Put 4.7L HO V8 in it. Add AWD. Watch as the cars fly off the shelves before you can say "Charger What?"

- Sprinter: See above.

And what about the Sprinter. Hm. Its not like Dodge had anything to do with designing or building it, so I wonder how it will turn out.

- Viper: Get a new interior NOW!

Tighten up the suspension. NOW!

Chrysler: Mid-Level Luxury Brand: See Buick for Model

Eww. Not the best example.

- Sebring: Quality, diesel, etc. Oh, needs a new suspension. See Saturn Aura for a good example.

The first and foremost thing the Sebring needs is to be redesigned by someone who wasn't blind. Especially the convertible. It is outclassed by everything else it competes with that it almost seems like the previous car was better (which is something Chrysler is really good at anyways, but whatever).

Jeep: Luxury Truck Brand.

No no no. Leave the rest of the brand where it is and just use the Grand Cherokee to fill out the luxury needs. The new Wrangler is already too soft as it is.

- Wrangler: Needs one more cheap model for the hardcore 4X4 crowd. Think something like the stripped-out WRX TR but in Wrangler form, all the goodies of the Rubicon but without all the luxury crap. Needs diesel too.

It wouldn't sell.

- Dakota: New platform, please.
- Durango: Same as Dakota

You do know the Dakota and Durango are only 2 and 3 years old, respectively, right? They also just refreshened the Durango this year.

- Ram: Same as Dakota. These three are now the oldest trucks on the Market, save for that damn Ranger...

The RAM recieved a major chassis refresh in 2005.

- Viper: The V-10's getting far too long in the tooth. I say combine Hemi (and that's the 426) with the V-10, get over 600 HP out of 7.0L or less. That's right. The Viper needs a smaller engine that hits harder.

The last thing the Viper needs is engine changing. The drivetrain is fine. It needs a better suspension.

- PT Cruiser: Take Caliber, re-body.

That would make the car worse, not better.

- Pacifica: does Chrysler really need an SUV of any sort? I say let Jeep handle it.

The Pacifica is as much of an SUV as the AWD Dodge Magnum is. The only problem with the Pacifica is that it is too expensive.

- Wrangler: Agree on Diesel point, and on stripper model. Also think a Rally-inspired SRT model would be fun...

Eww. Maybe a Baja 1000 or Paris Dakar type model, but a souped up rally job is just asking for roll-overs and lawsuits.

 

[YSSMAN]

This may be the best summation of the feelings around the Cerberus/Chrysler deal thus far that I've read: The Autoextremist Rant on the Future of Chrysler and the UAW

Key point of the column: If Chrysler is able to push-over the UAW, GM and Ford should be able to as well. If not, the UAW is done, as both he and I are certain that people will line up for miles and miles for jobs at the three companies for reduced pay an benefits. If they dangle $20 an hour and $30 co-pays, people will gladly take it over doing the "UAW dance" for $24 an hour and $15 co-pay... Anything in Michigan is better than nothing these days...

---

To respond to a few of Toronado's points:

-Avenger SRT idea: I was thinking a forced-induction V6, but a V8 would work well if they could sit it in the car. Problem is, they won't do it. With the Charger sitting tall as one of the benchmarks in the class (until the G8 shows up), they aren't going to let anything step on its toes in-house. Furthermore, the 4.7L Magnum is just too old of an engine to be worth a damn. Without MDS, a 6-speed automatic, and some kind of alternative fuel option, I don't see a V8 car in Dodge's lineup outside of the Charger R/T.

- Sprinter: Given that Daimler AG still owns 20% of Dodge and that Sprinters are selling extremely well, chances are that they will remain in the lineup for the foreseeable future. It doesn't need many changes outside of offering the diesel option, which I think came on-line for 2007.

- Viper: Whats wrong with the suspension? It can still handle just about as well as the slightly-better Z06. Its that interior with a near-$90K price tag that is killing the car for me...

- Chrysler and Buick: Technically speaking, they are supposed to be competitors. With Buick replacing the LaCrosse with the Epsilon II Regal, going RWD with the Park Avenue, probably building the gullwing Riviera, not to mention the possibility of bringing back the Grand National (giving the middle-finger to the 300C SRT-8)... Buick seems like a good model for me...

- Sebring: The car isn't the best car in its class, but I don't think it is the worst either. What it comes down to is that they need to spend a few more dollars in the interior, and somehow figure out that the car isn't supposed to lean like the SS Minnow when going through turns. They may call me 'Cap' around here, but I certainly don't want to pilot a barge that can't handle the relatively sedate (yet entertaining) Michigan back-roads. Thusly, they need to take a page out of the GM book, particularly with the Aura, and find the best balance of control and comfort with the car. It can be done...

- Jeep: I was thinking of Jeep as something more luxurious than Dodge's similar offerings, and the eventual move to make the company something like a "poor-man's Land Rover." I wouldn't call for a softening of any of their models, but an extensive increase of quality and luxury, particularly with the Cherokee over the Durango, and the Liberty over the Nitro. The Compass has to go, and at least in my mind, the Patriot seems good enough to keep around for a while.

- Wrangler Diesel: You really don't think it would sell? Please tell me why they are selling them in Europe then? Its an idea that could seriously work... Plenty of low-end torque, good fuel economy, strong durability. I'd be willing to be that if they can price them right, they would sell quite well...

 

[Tornado]

-Avenger SRT idea: I was thinking a forced-induction V6, but a V8 would work well if they could sit it in the car. Problem is, they won't do it.

Those jerks. An AWD Avenger has to weigh at least 500-600 pounds less than a AWD Charger with a Hemi.

Furthermore, the 4.7L Magnum is just too old of an engine to be worth a damn.

Nonsense. A rumored update makes the engine about as powerful as the Mustang 4.6, but torquier.

Without MDS, a 6-speed automatic, and some kind of alternative fuel option, I don't see a V8 car in Dodge's lineup outside of the Charger R/T.

So put all of that into the Avenger, lighten it up and sell it as an Evo alternative. I'd buy it.

- Viper: Whats wrong with the suspension? It can still handle just about as well as the slightly-better Z06. Its that interior with a near-$90K price tag that is killing the car for me...

Dodge didn't rework the suspension when they gave it the recent 100BHP boost. The only reason the Viper has ever handled well, dating all the way back to the original 400BHP RT/10s, was because they have always had 7ft wide tires. The suspension has always made them too raw and unrefined, with bump steer being a constant threat, as is the slightest of too much throttle.

Buick seems like a good model for me...

That was a joke. Regardless of how good Buicks have gotten, they are still Buicks, whihc means that people under the age of 60 shouldn't be driving them with only a few exceptions.

- Sebring: The car isn't the best car in its class, but I don't think it is the worst either.

Then what could be? The only thing that comes to mind is the DeVille, and the Sebring simply isn't big enough to outclass that. The Fusion, the Galant, the G6, the Malibu; hell, even the Impala is better than the Sebring.

- Jeep: I was thinking of Jeep as something more luxurious than Dodge's similar offerings, and the eventual move to make the company something like a "poor-man's Land Rover."

Oh, you meant over Dodge, and not overall. Okay, I could agree with that.

- Wrangler Diesel: You really don't think it would sell? Please tell me why they are selling them in Europe then?

Because those crazy Europeans would even buy Protons if they came with diesel engines. And I say that not even knowing if Proton does have a diesel engines, because I am so sure of my assumptions.

 

[YSSMAN]

Then what could be? The only thing that comes to mind is the DeVille, and the Sebring simply isn't big enough to outclass that. The Fusion, the Galant, the G6, the Malibu; hell, even the Impala is better than the Sebring.

Lets see...

Suzuki Verona:

Kia Amanti:

Mitsubishi Gallant:

...Although, the Gallant is on the line, since it is technically the same as the Sebring underneath...

IMO, the only thing that saves the Sebring from certain death are those clever "never thought of that before" features that are available on the car...

 

[Tornado]

The quality of the Amanti is way better than the Sebring's, and I believe it costs less too. It suffers from the same spongey ride as the Sebring, and up until this year it had no engine power, but I think it is supposed to get the 3.8L this year.
The Galant is better sorted than the Sebring, same chassis or not. The main knock against it is that the engine and tranny are bad, but the suspension and handling bits are much better.
The Verona is no longer sold.

 

[YSSMAN]

I always forget that the Verona isn't in production anymore. Its not like they sold many anyway... And really it wasn't a horrible car, it was that stupid I6 that killed it in my book. And yes, I drove one, and it was decent. The transmission was rather lazy too as I recall, extremely reluctant to shift in any direction...

Anyway, the Amanti versus the Sebring in terms of quality is an interesting one. I wouldn't rate either very high, but at the very least, the Amanti does have a bit more "polish" to it, doesn't it?

 

[TheCracker]

- Wrangler Diesel: You really don't think it would sell? Please tell me why they are selling them in Europe then? Its an idea that could seriously work... Plenty of low-end torque, good fuel economy, strong durability. I'd be willing to be that if they can price them right, they would sell quite well...

They sell in europe? - i didn't think homosexuals were that bothered by fuel economy.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

Anyway, the Amanti versus the Sebring in terms of quality is an interesting one. I wouldn't rate either very high, but at the very least, the Amanti does have a bit more "polish" to it, doesn't it?

^ I've seen the new Sebring and the Amanti at the same time at two autoshows (here in Vegas and the big one in L.A.). And I was highly dissapointed with the Sebring's "tupperware" interior, everything felt cheap. When I knocked on the dash and my impressions became worse, it doesn't sound solid, just like the Expedition, if you punched hard enough you will blow a hole in there.

-> The Amanti (or the Opirus in Euro markets) on the other hard is quite the opposite, it has that sense of quality that most domestics doesn't have. Although its equally ugly as the Sebring, the Amanti/Oprus is a lot more powerful because the 2006 model just received the new 3.8 V6 in which it is shared with the better looking Hyundai Azera/Grandeur.

(: