Classics from the stone age

[DK]

How about an ancient Egyptian chariot, seeing as we're mentioning the Stone Age.

 

[cletus 669]

How about an ancient Egyptian chariot, seeing as we're mentioning the Stone Age.

I wonder what kind of time that would turn on the ring? That is one tight suspension!

 

[analog]

I think we have to draw a line somewhere in GT, for me it definitely is the point the horse was traded in for the internal combustion engine as i don't have any Ben Hur fantasies i wish to explore....

So here are some more suggestions ( as i've given up on a serious debate at this point with 2 stone age jokes and a mini Berlin Taxi debate ) for what i meant in the first place, feel free to supply your own.

The thing i tried to do here is to debate and pick the essential cars to bridge the obvious time gap between, say, 1920- 1950 within GT.

If we can't have Indy cars, well this might do

The Veyron of the thirties

BMW's first 3-series

This shouldn't need any explanation.....( although not strictly pre-1950 )

This one is owned by Ralph Lauren ( but there undoubtedly are more interesting facts )


I'm not trying to suggest (except perhaps the Maserati/ Bugatti ) these were the essential cars of that period, but which are according to you?

 

[Tompie913]

I wonder what kind of time that would turn on the ring? That is one tight suspension!

I should think it would do better than the Daimler Motor Carriage, as horses can actually get up hills. If it's a two horse chariot, it would have more horsepower too.

 

[b1landboy]

For the 60s,how about some classics like :

Lotus Cortina mk1
Lotus Cortina mk2
Ford Escort mk1 rs2000
Ford Anglia
Ford capri mk1
Mini Cooper

And of course all the american muscle from that era aswell.

These cars made for great saloon car racing back in the day!

Finnracer the W125 was not a le mans car but a grand prix car i believe.

 

[analog]

For the 60s,how about some classics like :

Lotus Cortina mk1
Lotus Cortina mk2
Ford Escort mk1 rs2000
Ford Anglia
Ford capri mk1
Mini Cooper

And of course all the american muscle from that era aswell.

These cars made for great saloon car racing back in the day!

Finnracer the W125 was not a le mans car but a grand prix car i believe.

See you're into Fords, nothing wrong with that, and except for the Anglia i would love to see the cars you mentioned being featured in GT.
But the sixties ( probably also my favourite period ) are already being pretty well covered in GT, i'm just asking for a few examples to fill the gap between 1920 and 1950 or even older to be able to experience cars from all periods in GT.

Like i said before this is not my favourite ( but nonetheless still interesting ) period and it's the period i know the least of compared with other more recent decades.
Still i would like to see a couple of really old classics, for if anyone could pull it off accurately and convincingly i think PD can.

 

[Grand Prix]

Yes, the 1920s and 30s are poorly represented in GT4. Some amazing cars have been made and raced in this era.

Alfa Romeo "Bimotore" (Two motors)


Duesenberg (listen to that awesome straight 8)


Need more Auto Unions!

And just for laughs, how about a 1900s Panhard?

 

[analog]

Thanks very much for these wonderful examples.👍

I've read about that Alfa and saw some pictures but never realised the first "real" Ferrari was a twin-engined beast which sounded so glorious.
The Duesy was an eye-opener too for i was only aware of their road cars which always seemed rather heavy and pompous.
That Panhard with its 12.8 litre 4 ( ! ) cylinder is probably the most influential racing car up into the sixties, by that time they seemed to remember the mid-engined Auto-Unions ( rather late ) again, so great examples and nice clips by the way.

 

[phosphor112]

I guess this would be something cool to have, but the practicality of racing a car from the 30's and 40's is... well not really there. I guess if you included enough to race with one another but that would take a lot more time than looking up more of the muscle classics from the 50's onward. I think more people would like muscle cars or maybe old school NASCAR cars before they'd want a "Monopoly Car."

In short, they can probably put that effort into something more appreciated.

 

[analog]

I guess this would be something cool to have, but the practicality of racing a car from the 30's and 40's is... well not really there. I guess if you included enough to race with one another but that would take a lot more time than looking up more of the muscle classics from the 50's onward. I think more people would like muscle cars or maybe old school NASCAR cars before they'd want a "Monopoly Car."

In short, they can probably put that effort into something more appreciated.

If we only followed what the majority wanted we would never come up with an original idea, the only cars present would be 800+HP supercars or anything being driven round an airfield by a guy with a white helmet.
GT always claims to be an encyclopedia of automotive history and always catered not only for the majority but also those with more leftfield or eclectic taste.
Like you i love muscle cars and will happily collect all of them, but they are already heavily covered unlike some era's of car history which not seem to be properly covered at all ( and i was only asking for 3 or 4 examples ).
The point you raised about racing is irrelevant, the Model T and Benz/ Daimler were also included, if one or two "monopoly cars" were to be included they could race each other by those who might feel like it.
The majority will still be able to do what it wants, but the more open-minded minority would probably agree that the freedom of choice and variety within GT is preferable to a monopoly forced by the majority, even when some of that variety includes "monopoly cars".

 

[blackjack]

I really enjoyed when PD included Model T and Benz/Daimler (I believe they were the 1hp/2hp models?) I thought it was absolutely hilarious that I couldn't them up one of the hills in nurburg! I didn't use them alot, but I think they are a great addition which certainly educates us on the history of the automobile and adds appreciation for what we have today.

 

[Mekanaizer]

These are probably the most successful pre-WWII GP cars.

Alpha Romeo P3
Alpha Romeo Bimotore
Auto Union Type C
Auto Union Type D
Bugatti 35B
Bugatti 59
Duesenberg "Murphy Special"
ERA Remus
ERA Romulus
Mercedes Benz 125
Mercedes Benz 154
Miller 91
Napier Railton

Every one is forgetting about the Napier Railton one of the most powerful race cars of the time. Sadly the tire evolution didn't co-op with the car and the pitstops for tires and fuel were the issues. But once on track it was unbeatable.

Anyway here are some of Napier Railton specs:
- engine capacity: 24000cc (yes, 24000cc)
- speed: average.170mph (a little over 200mph at Brooklands time/speed trials)
- weight: 1.5 tons
- around 600hp
- finish build in 1932 raced in 1933.
- still the Brooklands Track record holder.
- only rear brakes.

 

[sennarose88]

Classics from the stone age?

We'll see Flintstones driving it. In game.

How about an ancient Egyptian chariot, seeing as we're mentioning the Stone Age.

Then you can shout "I AM SPARTAAAAAAAAAAA...."

 

[mafia_boy]

I read the thread title as "Classics from the stoner age"

From: Canada

Must be from Vancouver.

 

[analog]

This is not strictly a wish list, this thread is intended to debate, inspire or enthuse people, or come up with suggestions and/ or arguments for a period in car history which is until now unsufficiently portrayed in GT, in my view.

I'm only asking for a few examples to fill the gap so if you think a certain car or certain cars should be included because there essential/ underappreciated/ or just seem enormous fun to drive within an arbitrary timeline of 1920-1950 ( this is the gap within GT, but before or slightly after is "allowed" ) feel free to add.

Here are some more;

Lewis Hamilton driving a W25 Benz

The legendary Talbot-Lago

How about this for an interior view? ( Maserati )

To bridge the gap between GT and Tourist Trophy

A road car for a change in the form of a late forties Ferrari


And thanks for the contributions so far ( even the Flintstones/ chariot ones although the comedy value now wears thin....)

 

[Sniffs]

i hate to poke this awake, but you guys forgot a couple.

to go with the Dusenbergs (there's still a semi obsolete slang term in american English that came from them "a Doozy") there's the Auburn Speedster, a boat-tailed roadster, and the Cord 810, complete with Pop up headlights (sort of) and front wheel drive. these three are in the same automotive family.

a 20's luxury leftover that even europeans wouldn't have heard of (for the most part) are Pierce Arrows, the first american cars with the headlights in the fenders. this idea was SO radical at the time, i think it scared people away.

i can see one problem, however, with using Genuine Antiques...they're almost all Museum Pieces, not meant to be driven (how they talked mercedes out for the Mothers of all cars, i can't figure out). since a GT conversion actually involves driving them to get things like the gearbox, suspension travel, etc, they may be now too fagile to move without shattering from old age, let alone the rough handling the PD guys need to take measurements and make an effective conversion for the physical parts.

 

[shirakawaa]

[...]shattering from old age, let alone the rough handling the PD guys need to take measurements and make an effective conversion for the physical parts.

I really think PD gets most of the technical info from manufacturers.
If the physics engine is accurate, so should be handling simulated with detailed specifications and data provided by the manufacturer (normally not publicly available). The exception would be engine sounds, in these cases some kind of synthesized sound modeling to recreate the original engine tone (from old recordings, videos, or even short new samples, etc) would be necessary.

 

[DoctorFouad]

I wanna drive the first mercedes / ford cars !!! that would be a lot of fun !!!

 

[Sniffs]

I believe i read on here that PD physically drives the cars to measure suspension travel and handling. besides, a lot of manufacturers are dead as doornails/Elvis/Disco (US)/Russian Communisim, etc. a lot of the 30's-50's manufacturers died 30-50 YEARS ago. add in the fact that any copyright holders either don't know they have it, or have been living off the money the name made decades ago, well...

all the cars I've mentioned myself in this thread have long since disappeared. there ARE no manufacturers to contact for stats, only collectors. and collectors who own cars of the appropriate vintage aren't about to let anybody touch their multi-million dollar collectors pieces. not to mention the "unfortunate implications" that would arise in older collectors minds at an "insert ethnic slur here" playing with THEIR baby (a lot of older people, the ones who collect the 30's vintage, are still in the mindset of their childhoods, when everyone else was beneath them for some minor thing, in todays perceptions, such as race, gender, ethnicity, etc. these people are starting to die out, but still...

it still amazes me that they managed to talk Mercedes out of the Daimler and Benz patent vehicles.

 

[analog]

it still amazes me that they managed to talk Mercedes out of the Daimler and Benz patent vehicles.

I know there are a few replica's build of the Benz Patent Motorwagen ( featured in GT4 ) which are in every single detail exactly the same as the real "survivor", which is put on display in the Mercedes-Benz museum in Stuttgart, and were build ( or commisioned to be build by a specialist firm ) by Mercedes themselves for promotional reasons or to be displayed in other museums.

They might've ( if they had to drive or be driven in this car for accuracy ) used one of those, which makes sense I guess.

 

[mani_23]

Does the Kubelwaggen and the schwimmwagen do it for ya' analog?

Cant Wait to drive them!


...I probably did spell them wrong...

 

[analog]

Does the Kubelwaggen and the schwimmwagen do it for ya' analog?

Cant Wait to drive them!


...I probably did spell them wrong...

Yes, they do seem fun with all their flaws and limitations, indeed also can't wait to drive them ( but the same can be said of a lot of new additions, modern and classic ) but this might be the wrong thread ( although it also isn't as they do fit the criteria I set out in this thread, just wasn't expecting these 2 vehicles to appear in GT5 ).

 

[tiapavo]

With nothing really going on to discuss newswise and since most essential topics already seem to be present in other threads I am asking your opinions on the following.

Ever since the Bugatti brand was confirmed for GT5 in the form of the mighty Veyron I was wondering that it would be nice to also include its spiritual forebears in the form of, for example, the late twenties grand prix racer Bugatti type 35.
Also, since Bentley was present in GT4, its nemesis the "Blower" Bentley
and you could name several contemperary cars from Alfa, Mercedes-Benz, etc., etc.

Honestly, the twenties and thirties are not my favourite period in the history of the automobile but they were essential in developing the car as we know it today.
I'm not asking GT to outbranch since it already touched it slightly in some ways in GT4 by offering the 19th century Benz and Daimler and the later model T but these cars, although fun in their own way, did not exactly set my heart on fire, and the closest thing resembling what I previously mentioned was the '39 Auto-Union although it was in record car guise, so quite useless on a twisty circuit.

Just to be clear, I would be perfectly happy with GT as it is now with a lot of new cars and a large selection of classics starting from the fifties onwards.
But if GT is an encyclopedia of automotive history as Kaz always claims it is, there is a large gap between the Model T and for example the '55 Gullwing.
There should not be a large selection, just maybe 3/4 examples to bridge the timeline and offer something more unique and certainly more exciting to drive than the previously mentioned.

I might be the only one though, who thinks driving an archaic straight-eight monster from a bygone era on skinny tyres, perfectly digitally recreated, might be a lot of fun.......

I'm with you! add car like Bugatti atlantique or Hispano, Alfa Romeo 230 6c

 

[GT_Prologue5]

I can only wish to see some Italian cars from the 20's-doesn't matter what, just give me some GT!

 

[analog]

I'm with you! add car like Bugatti atlantique or Hispano, Alfa Romeo 230 6c

I can only wish to see some Italian cars from the 20's-doesn't matter what, just give me some GT!

Nice to see more people would like to see these vintage machines in GT, imagine being able to do what's shown in the video below.....
At least the track is already included in GT5 , the cars of that period really deserve to be reasonably represented in a game which claims to be an automobile encyclopedia in my opinion and would also prove a real challenge to even the most hardcore sim racing enthusiast, as the handling of these machines on pro-physics isn't anything like what's currently offered in the game.

 

[SuperShouden]

sounds like Kaz is already working on this. I mean, classic VWs, old Concept cars, Old Le Mans cars...and if the other two Pebble Beach GT Award winners make it in, that adds two more one of kind cars. Kaz obviously has a lot of connections. So, it'll be interesting to see what other fossils he included.

 

[Shant J.]

Nice to see more people would like to see these vintage machines in GT, imagine being able to do what's shown in the video below.....
At least the track is already included in GT5 , the cars of that period really deserve to be reasonably represented in a game which claims to be an automobile encyclopedia in my opinion and would also prove a real challenge to even the most hardcore sim racing enthusiast, as the handling of these machines on pro-physics isn't anything like what's currently offered in the game.

I. Want. That.

 

[Griffith500]

These older cars would be so much fun online, especially with no real worry about "over driving" them, which is nice.

I think the reason they'd be fun is because, as I see has been mentioned, they're nothing like the cars of today. I can't begin to imagine what braking into a corner feels like on those tall, skinny tyres!

 

[analog]

These older cars would be so much fun online, especially with no real worry about "over driving" them, which is nice.

I think the reason they'd be fun is because, as I see has been mentioned, they're nothing like the cars of today. I can't begin to imagine what braking into a corner feels like on those tall, skinny tyres!

It would perhaps indeed need a completely new mindset and new skills learned to drive these cars if done accurately.
Driving these machines is one thing but driving them on the limit would be a new challenge to those who only are used to more modern machinery ( and even those who are excellent at it ).
Even real life F1 drivers have difficulty controlling these cars without practice.

Some more vids I found and couldn't resist posting, the first coincidentally resembling my opening post with a couple of Veyrons leading the pack of vintage Bugatti's at Laguna Seca and the second a short clip of several brands battling it out on Monaco ( again both tracks at least are already in GT5 ).

 

[kjb]

I would love to have any of the 30s- 50s Masaretis when they were a serious threat to Ferrari