Colossal star found.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-10707416

They are among the true monsters of space - colossal stars whose size and brightness go well beyond what many scientists thought was even possible.

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Planets take longer to form than these stars take to live and die”

Prof Paul Crowther
Sheffield University, UK
One of the objects, known simply as R136a1, is the most massive ever found.

Viewed today, the star has a mass about 265 times that of our own Sun; but the latest modelling work suggests at birth it could have been bigger, still.

Perhaps as much as 320 times that of the Sun, says Professor Paul Crowther from Sheffield University, UK.

"If it replaced the Sun in our Solar System, it would outshine [it] by as much as the Sun currently outshines the full Moon," the astronomer told BBC News.

The stars were identified by Crowther's team using a combination of new observations on the Very Large Telescope facility in Chile and data gathered previously with the Hubble Space Telescope.


R136, a cluster of young, massive and hot stars (ESO)
The group studied the NGC 3603 and RMC 136a clusters - regions of space where thick clouds of gas and dust are collapsing into even denser clumps.

In these places, huge stars ignite to burn brief but brilliant lives before exploding as supernovas to seed the Universe with heavy elements.

NGC 3603 is relatively close in cosmic terms - just 22,000 light-years distant. RMC 136a (more often nicknamed R136) is slightly further away, and is sited within one of our neighbouring galaxies, the Large Magellanic Cloud, some 165,000 light-years away.

The team found several stars with surface temperatures over 40,000 degrees - more than seven times hotter than our Sun.

The research shows these young stellar objects to be unbelievably bright, truly massive and also extremely wide - perhaps 30 times the radius of our Sun in the case of R136a1.

How big is big? Star comparisons


This artist's impression (left) shows the relative sizes of young stars, from low mass "yellow dwarfs" such as our Sun, through "blue dwarf" stars that are eight times more massive than the Sun, to a 300 solar-mass star like R136a1 (right)
Up close the stars would look a mess, however. Unlike our Sun which appears as a defined disc on the sky, the giants identified by Professor Crowther and colleagues would be losing so much material through powerful winds from their puffed up atmospheres that they would have a fuzzy look about them.

One thing seems for sure - no planets would exist in orbit about them.

"Planets take longer to form than these stars take to live and die. Even if there were planets, there would be no astronomers on them because the night sky would be almost as bright as the day in these clusters," Professor Crowther joked.


Europe's VLT facility is sited in Chile
"Some of these big stars are relatively close to each other, so even at 'night' you'd have another very bright star shining on you."

Previously observed giants had been seen to get as big as 150 times the mass of our Sun. The latest findings raise interesting questions about what the upper limits on size might be.

Ordinarily, there should come a point where the pressure from all the radiation emitted by a stellar behemoth pushes back against any further infall of gas and dust. In other words, there ought to be a physical barrier to excessive star growth.

But Professor Crowther adds a second factor - that of resource. There may not exist in today's Universe places that have sufficient supplies of gas and dust to feed ever more massive stars.

However, the new observations do give a tantalising glimpse of what the very early Universe might have been like. Many objects in the very first population of stars to shine shortly after the Big Bang are thought to have been monsters like R136a1.

When these objects blew apart, their cataclysmic demise was so violent they may not have left behind a remnant core of material as is often the case following a supernova; or even a black hole which is another common consequence, too.

Instead, these giants may simply have dumped all their contents back into space, dispersing heavy elements like iron equivalent to the mass of 10 of our Suns.

"The bigger picture to this research is that it gives us confidence that there were probably more of these really massive stars in much greater numbers early on in the Universe," Professor Crowther told BBC News.

The new results appear in a paper in the journal Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society.

So, the largest star ever found alters our understanding on exactly how big a star can physically get, it also gives us great reason to assume, why shouldn't there be bigger out there?
 
All I can say is: "Oh my Jesus Christ monkey balls."
 
So, the largest star ever found alters our understanding on exactly how big a star can physically get, it also gives us great reason to assume, why shouldn't there be bigger out there?

Yes Stevisiov,the Universe is a great unknown(probably Infinite)and I feel Humankind only Knows( as in see or probe) the little backyard of a little house,in a huge town,in a huge Country in a huge Planet...
So I guess everything is possible even beyond our wildest Imagination...
The question is if we ever are going to be able to unveil ,at least the whole town...?
 
What I really miss in this one is how far this confirms or changes (and exactly where it changes) the current theories.

It seems it confirms some theories of the forming of the universe. There was little information on the distance of these stars and thus how long ago it was that the star was this big.
 
What I really miss in this one is how far this confirms or changes (and exactly where it changes) the current theories.

It seems it confirms some theories of the forming of the universe. There was little information on the distance of these stars and thus how long ago it was that the star was this big.

Well, the article states that RMC 136a is 165,000 light-years away. So unless i'm being dumb, the images they are seing are 165,000 years old.
 
It's both. It's the distance light travels in a year. If something is 165,000 light years away then the light you are seing from it is 165,000 years old. Unless i'm mistaken?
 
You're not. A light year is approximately 10,000,000,000 KM, which is how far light travels in a year.
 
You're not. A light year is approximately 10,000,000,000 KM, which is how far light travels in a year.

You're missing a couple of zeroes there. It's a hair under 10,000,000,000,000km.
 
It's both. It's the distance light travels in a year. If something is 165,000 light years away then the light you are seing from it is 165,000 years old. Unless i'm mistaken?

It's not both. It doesn't measure how long it takes something to happen, it measures how far something went in a given time. You could just as easily have car minutes, if the speed of a car was a universal law. If the speed of a car was locked by nature at 60 miles per hour, then a car minute would be a mile. It's distance, not time, being measured.

Yes, the current image of something 165,000 light-years away is 165,000 years old, but that does not make it a measure of time. It's measure of how incredibly stinking far away that thing is, since it takes light, the fastest possible thing in the Universe, that long to get from there to here.

The concept came up when people realized how incredibly stinking far away stuff in the Universe actually is, and miles became clumsy.

How many millimeters is it to Saturn? It's an unmanageable number.

A light-year is not a measure of time any more than a foot-pound is a measure of weight.
 
light, the fastest possible thing in the Universe

Are we quite sure light is the fastest thing?

There is some indication that the electrostatic force travels much faster than c, and that gravity is a form of the electrostatic force, so gravity is essentially connected among particles, orbiting bodies, stars, galaxies and galactic clusters at a near-instantaneous speed. The Earth responds gravitationally to where the Sun is, almost right now (and the other planets, too, in their various positions) and not where they were some time ago where they would have been if gravity was restrained to the speed of light.

Yours truly,
Dotini
 
There is some indication that the electrostatic force

What's that then?

travels much faster than c

[Citation needed]

and that gravity is a form of the electrostatic force

[Citation needed]

so gravity is essentially connected among particles, orbiting bodies, stars, galaxies and galactic clusters at a near-instantaneous speed. The Earth responds gravitationally to where the Sun is, almost right now (and the other planets, too, in their various positions) and not where they were some time ago where they would have been if gravity was restrained to the speed of light.

Gravitation, not gravity. And since gravitation bends space-time (that's, in fact, how it exerts the effect that it does) then the Earth both "responds" to where the Sun is and was.

Relativism FTW.
 
Famine's explanation hurt my head...but this gives us all the more reason to invent FTL.

Please.

Soon.
 
Famine's explanation hurt my head...but this gives us all the more reason to invent FTL.

Please.

Soon.

Gravity acts by bending Space-time, thus Famines explanation.

I tend to think of it is a ball in a Punch Bowl, in that the shape of the bowl determines the travel path of the ball. Yes, I know Gravity is what makes the ball move, but we have to simplify to some degree to explain what would effectively be a 4 dimensional "bowl."

And Dotini, what are you talking about? The only faster than light phenomenon I am aware of is Quantum Entanglement.
 
I think he means that gravitational effects are instantaneous (thus FTL,) but his error lies in that gravity does not propogate in the sense that light, or particle motion, does.
 
I think he means that gravitational effects are instantaneous (thus FTL,) but his error lies in that gravity does not propogate in the sense that light, or particle motion, does.

I deny that gravitational effects are instantaneous. Above I said "near-instantaneous". As for the exact details of propagation of both light and gravity, that remains to be determined. I'm looking into it. I'll release additional information when I'm ready. Why hurry when you're learning something, having fun, and providing wholesome entertainment?

As for any errors on my part, I admit to have made plenty during my relatively long life. Usually they come about by taking any one person too seriously.

Everlastingly yours,
Dotini
 
But what if we're looking at the star through 10,000,000,000,000 kilometers of translucent gelatin?
 
It's not both. It doesn't measure how long it takes something to happen, it measures how far something went in a given time. You could just as easily have car minutes, if the speed of a car was a universal law. If the speed of a car was locked by nature at 60 miles per hour, then a car minute would be a mile. It's distance, not time, being measured.

Yes, the current image of something 165,000 light-years away is 165,000 years old, but that does not make it a measure of time. It's measure of how incredibly stinking far away that thing is, since it takes light, the fastest possible thing in the Universe, that long to get from there to here.

Yes, but for the purpose of answering the question 'how long ago did the light reach us from that star which is 165,000 light-years away' then using a light-year as a measurement of time in this instance is perfectly correct.
 
No, it's not, and if you answered an exam question that way you'd get a big red X on your paper. The light took a certain number of years to reach us, which is a measure of the time involved. It took that long because the star is that many light-years distant.

Units measured with a hyphenated pair of designators are very common, and they measure neither of the items designated, but the combination. A newton-meter measures neither force nor distance, for example. It measures torque, a rotation force applied as a given force a certain number of units away from the item being turned.
 
@ TheCracker

Thanks, I had missed that.

@ Famine

space-time bending, makes if very difficult to follow.

@ Dotini

Your good at digging up quotes, but maybe if you find Famine's requests they should go in an other thread like "Faster then light: Dotini vs Famine" or "The end of the theory of Einstein".

================

Back to the stars: 165,000 years ago
Still did not see any confirmation or new theory effect

So just states indeed these stars are more spectacular as expected.

Wikipedia life cycle of our sun:
728px-Solar_Life_Cycle.svg.png


Wikipedia on stars:
Age

Most stars are between 1 billion and 10 billion years old. Some stars may even be close to 13.7 billion years old—the observed age of the universe. The oldest star yet discovered, HE 1523-0901, is an estimated 13.2 billion years old.[83][84]

The more massive the star, the shorter its lifespan, primarily because massive stars have greater pressure on their cores, causing them to burn hydrogen more rapidly. The most massive stars last an average of about one million years, while stars of minimum mass (red dwarfs) burn their fuel very slowly and last tens to hundreds of billions of years.

They can be older, bigger and thus evolving faster, etc... all explained in current theory, just not expected, but possible.
 
@ Dotini
Your good at digging up quotes, but maybe if you find Famine's requests they should go in an other thread like "Faster then light: Dotini vs Famine" or "The end of the theory of Einstein".

Wikipedia on stars:
They can be older, bigger and thus evolving faster, etc... all explained in current theory, just not expected, but possible.

I don't want any kind of standing contest with Famine. I'm too old and wear glasses. But I would like to convert him to my point of view. I believe I can once I get him to read Arp's book which TM is holding for him.

If a theory can be found which successfully predicts that which is not expected in current theory, but which is actually found in unfolding observations, then that new theory is to be preferred. I believe the beginnings of such a new paradigm are near to hand in EU/PC (Electric Universe/Plasma Cosmology).

Respectfully yours,
Dotini
 
I believe

Yoda
And that is why you fail.

Why is it important to "convert" anyone to your point of view? If it is the correct one and stands scientific scrutiny, it'll be accepted on its merits in time. No "conversion" necessary.
 
Why is it important to "convert" anyone to your point of view? If it is the correct one and stands scientific scrutiny, it'll be accepted on its merits in time. No "conversion" necessary.

Oh, it's not necessary to convert just anyone to my point of view. But it would be quite salutary in your case, because you are an important fixture here at GTP forums, and could help with the paradigm shift (which will indeed take place in time if, as you say, it can stand on it's merits).

Your critical faculties of a caliber which are quite worthwhile harnessing to a purpose. You're a very pretty prize, and play hard to get. But if it were easy, I wouldn't bother.

Love and kisses,
Dotini
 
As the actress said to the stamp collector, philately will get you nowhere.
 
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