Come on Polyphony!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter dazzi
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I see, the alleged IGN interview. :sly:


I remember it, it was a rely KY made and joked about, nothing to make us think the update wont be in Fall yet, TGS should reveal all.
 
Main reason Iam growing inpatient is I have had the game from March Launch in Australia.
I really disagree with you on saying the difference between Gt4 and 5 is greater then between Gt2 and 3

The difference between 2 and 3 is huge the whole dam car used to split up in 2 as you turn and you would see blocks everywhere, I dont care if it were a higher poly count I also saw Gt3 improved lighting massively, the cars had real time reflections, rain on the road produced real time reflections high detailed sun flares, high level bump maping, while in Gran turismo 5 all i see added is a progressive mode of 1080 (1080p) which is nothing new, Gt4 NTSC ran at 1080i, it has also added higher polygon models, and better lighting (HDR) and reflections, I dont count anything else as an improvement I doubt Ps2 couldnt run an in car view seeing that wastes less power then rendering the 3rd person car view.

and here is a comparison

Gran turismo 2:
http://www.gamershell.com/static/screenshots/5671/117953_full.jpg

to this
http://www.absolute-playstation.com/gran_turismo_3/gran_turismo_3_mh_3.htm
Gran turismo 3

but you are saying there is a bigger difference between this:
http://media.arstechnica.com/reviews/games/raceoff.media/gt4-1.jpg
Gran turismo 4

to this:
http://teknogazm.googlepages.com/gt5_p3.jpg/gt5_p3-full;crop:0,0,1,1.jpg

All I see is a higher poly count and some lighting improvements but in the end I think the leap we saw from 1999-2001 is greater then the one we are seeing from 2004-2007.
That comment about Gran turismo 3 being made earlier then 1998 Gran turismo 1 wasnt out till 1997 so in your terms 1 was being made back in 94 or so?, Id say Number one started being made late 1995, 2 Early 1997 or after the 1st ones launch Number 3 production most likely started late 1998 or very early 1999 and Number 4 started early 2001 or late 2000 and this Gran turismo 5 project started at the begining of 2004 if not the end of 2003 thats 5 years! and all we have got is a canceled GT HD game and a demo of the real thing but no news on the actual game its self.
Wouldnt it be nice if Polyphony actually spoke to the community.? Just like System 3 does about ferrari challenge that is what in the end will make an even better game for polyphony.
I really dont want anything out of polyphony I just dont want them to focus too much on Prologue and give us a release date at the end of Ps3's life.
 
That GT5P pic and most really don't show the sheer detail involved, just go into GT4 photomode and have a look how simple (but well done with the resources then availible) the GT4 models are.


But then look at the GT2-GT3 pics you showed (GT2 pic is blurred which makes it look worse) and they are pretty much the same, just increased polygons and textures. GT5 has sooooo much more than that. Which many, including you it seems don't even notice.
 
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I really dont want anything out of polyphony I just dont want them to focus too much on Prologue and give us a release date at the end of Ps3's life.

Through all of this, how have you still failed to grasp that working on Prologue updates IS working on GT5?
 
I remember it, it was a rely KY made and joked about, nothing to make us think the update wont be in Fall yet, TGS should reveal all.
Yes I think TGS will bring some update news of the 'Autumn update'. *Awaiting TGS.....*
:D
 
Hold on a second and think about what that actually means.

According to KY, GT5P and the full GT5 will be exactly the same where functionality is concerned, it's just the car models and tracks that make the difference. In other words: GT5 will just be more tracks and cars.

So, turning the focus from GT5 to GT5P means that they are now focusing on the game engine rather than extra cars and models, which is exactly what you want right?

Through all of this, how have you still failed to grasp that working on Prologue updates IS working on GT5?
Like I tried to point out in my post above (which apparently, nobody read :p), we should welcome the fact that they do this instead of bash them. :)
 
Its not the fact that there are updates for Gran turismo 5 prologue, these updates have done nothing, Since I got the game nothing but the opening, tyre names and download options have changed and this was supposed to be a big 6 month in production update im worried with this pace, and if it is online they are testing it hasnt changed since launch its still pretty much rubbish, with simple things like Rooms missing.
It makes me wonder would it hurt polyphony to take another game which has great online and see how its code runs etc you cant make online mode much better then the system which most other games have been using since 2000 and earlier.
and here is a clear Gran turismo 2 picture:
http://www.theautochannel.com/mania/video-games/images/Gran_Turismo_2_2.jpg
 
and here is a comparison

*stuff*

Your comparison neither shows GT2 nor GT5P in their best lights, so it's not what I'd call a fair one. The picture of GT2 is blatantly a photo someone's taken of a TV screen and GT3 a proper screenshot. Likewise, the GT5P shot is probably one of the most basic you could choose when a nice, hi-res screenshot like this much more accurately showcases the game.

I'd argue that there is a better increase in detail from GT4 to GT5P than there was from GT2 to GT3 - technically, at least. Even playing GT3 and GT4 back-to-back on the same system shows how much of an improvement the latter game was graphically.

Not to mention things like interior shots (modelling a whole interior as well as a whole exterior now), greater scenery detail and then game engine improvements as well, which all go towards the differences.

Through all of this, how have you still failed to grasp that working on Prologue updates IS working on GT5?

:lol: I know, I tried to make that point earlier too...
 
Its not the fact that there are updates for Gran turismo 5 prologue, these updates have done nothing, Since I got the game nothing but the opening, tyre names and download options have changed and this was supposed to be a big 6 month in production update im worried with this pace, and if it is online they are testing it hasnt changed since launch its still pretty much rubbish, with simple things like Rooms missing.
It makes me wonder would it hurt polyphony to take another game which has great online and see how its code runs etc you cant make online mode much better then the system which most other games have been using since 2000 and earlier.
and here is a clear Gran turismo 2 picture:
http://www.theautochannel.com/mania/video-games/images/Gran_Turismo_2_2.jpg

Didnt the Physics and Grip levels change at some point in time?
 
I really dont see how you can say GT2 looks good just look at all the screenshots.
Psone was absolutely shocking in terms of graphics even compared to the N64, Ps1 could never produce a clean picture even a game like Ocarina of Time was much smoother then 98% of Psone games.
I love Gran turismo personally if someone said that another game is better id argue with them long and hard, sorry if Iam sounding like a person who hates GT i absolutely love the series I started from Number 2 but I didnt play number one because I was born in 1992 and even when 2 came out i was only 7.

I have spent whole nights with my cousin playing GT2,Gt3 and Gt4 by myself.

I will never admit tho that the jump between Gt4 and Gt5 is greater then the jump between GT2 and Gt3 the whole PS3 game collection is as great of a jump between Ps1 and PS2.

Ps3 adds some special effects, Ps2 did most of the job of cleaning up the mess the Psone graphics were even at its time.
 
N64 came out years after the PS1, N64 was a 64 bit system while the PS1 was a 32bit system you can't put down the PS1 because of the N64.

PS1 at the time of release was pretty much state of the art, Sega Saturn of similar performance just beat it to the game.


and GT5 hads a whole lot more than just added special effects, and the reason you say PS2 cleaned up PS1's mess is because the polygon mess and textures resolution is higher, nothing near what PD did with GT5 compred to GT4.
 
Perhaps, he should delete all of his GT5P data and start from scratch, as we did with the Japanese version. Drive the bare bones version with no updates and then get Spec II and the subsequent updates.

Why are there no private rooms yet? Well, simple, PD didn't want us to make private rooms yet.

I think they'd rather have everyone racing out in the open to better evaluate the online environment and then flip the switch to give us the standard "create a room" options.

In all honestly PD/SCEA should be ashamed of themselves for not being in constant contact with it's customer base.
 
In all honestly PD/SCEA should be ashamed of themselves for not being in constant contact with it's customer base.

You can't put the problem that way.

You can be sure that PD is tracking down all relevant forums/communities regarding Gran Turismo games.

But.

If they would EVER opened OFFICIAL forum, they would only get 90% of trolling about reverse lights, 3D spectators, tyre marks and such, damage issues, WISHLIST threads (oh my god, wishlists threads, what a beauties) and all other beautiful issues we all can see on this respectful place, as well as on PS3 official forum and other places.

If I were them, I would never open such place - or start debate with community - because it would all end up in troll-wars. Smaller games, with smaller impact, must go public, because they need it from various reasons.

Gran Turismo is such a big project from all aspects - that it just does not need such an option, because it would just open a Pandora's Box of unnecessary issues.

You can safely presume that PD is 100% aware of all issues any of us could even imagine - from private lobbies, damage, changable weather, day/night process, tuning options, community options, you name it - and that they even now think about the options that we don't even know that exists.

And you can bet all your money that Polyphony Digital does not need any advice from community about what they SHOULD do wiith their games - because all our ideas are ideas that they've come up with 10 years ago.

But, there are reasons why they are not implemented yet - and they are in fact VERY SMART by not letting those reasons go into public.

It's simple as that.
 
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Playstation.com has 7 regions and each region has their own forums. That would be where PD and/or the appropriate region's SCE would have contact with their base. It would be up to the base as to whether or not they want to be part of the actual existing "Official" forums or not.

Even the devs of High Velocity Bowling interact with members on the PS3 Network board. MLB The Show actually has the developers playing with the gamers on a weekly basis. From what I understand, within the game itself there is a message board.

There are too many developers that make it their business to interact with their base. With the majority of gamers being "connected", not having the developers of top shelf games interact with the base on a regular basis is unacceptable. Especially with Sony's all-time best selling franchise, Gran Turismo.

How much do they value their base? Actions speak louder than (lack of) words.
 
Someone posted that the step up included addition of HD, but did you ever realise that GT2 only ran at 320x240 and Gran turismo 3 stepped it up to 640x480.
Now Gran turismo 5 did not even introduce HD in the series which is what most people say as the biggest advancement in terms of graphics is, but the clear truth it is not, back in 2004 Gran turismo 4 ran at 1080i.
If you state that Gt3 is only a polygonal update of Gt2 I agree but you also must add the high detailed lighting,real time reflections,bump maping and shadowing that Gran turismo 3 brought along with it, Gran turismo 5 in terms of graphics just updates what Gran turismo 3 & 4 brought along but dosent introduce new graphical features besides HDR all the other things GT3 featured have just been upgraded in Gt5.
And yes Polyphony should post and talk to its huge fanbase, you are also being rude with the fact "Polyphony know more then all their fans" no they dont each person has something new Yamauchi himself is a person nothing better then that, ever person is unique and would certinally give some good advice on the series with things that he would have never thought about just the way you say he knows things we dont, we know things he dosent.
Codemasters talks to their fanbase aout the upcomming F1 game in their forums why cant Polyphony at least let us know what is happening with the full game.
 
Codemasters talks to their fanbase aout the upcomming F1 game in their forums why cant Polyphony at least let us know what is happening with the full game.

Yes I can perfectly imagine developer's blog on weekly base.
 
How much do they value their base? Actions speak louder than (lack of) words.

Did you fully read amar212's post above yours? I thought it very eloquently put across why PD don't do the same as some of these other developers you mentioned. GT is a massive franchise with a massive user base around the world, and this being the digital age, numerous forums (like this one) have sprung up holding discussion on the game.

Whilst I'm sure you're of the opinion that this puts PD potentially in touch with millions of users around the world, just have a think what that involves - members of staff joining messageboards all around the world to see what people think, and then reading the same, oft-repeated threads all around the world.

"Ooh, another wishlist" they'll think with a sigh "...well they'll never see any of those cars because we can't get the licence for them, even though we've been trying for five years". They'll move to another section of the forum to see people bitching about private rooms. "But we're already working on that!" they'd type, and then get a dozen replies about how Forza has had it for years and how they should copy that, or why they don't implement it NOW.

Again going back to amar212's post, he points out that PD probably know of all these problems already, so what would they gain from being in "constant contact with their customer base"? I'd be more than willing to bed they do lurk on messageboards and such to see what people think, but if one of them joined it would open the floodgates for a load of crappy questions that really don't matter about why a certain car isn't in the game, and the genuinely useful stuff would get flooded out.

dazzi
ever person is unique and would certinally give some good advice on the series with things that he would have never thought about

As I just pointed out above, the user base for GT is massive - every person may well be able to give advice on the series, but 75% of that advice would probably be irrelevancies (things they're already working on and know about), another 20% of it would be really irrelevant (wishlists and things that they couldn't change or add if they tried) and the remaining 5% of users wouldln't get heard by the time PD got bored with people telling them things they're already aware of, and left.

dazzi - for the last time, any work they're doing on GT5P WILL BE REFLECTED IN THE FULL GAME. Any developments you're seeing on GT5P aren't just going to fizzle out into nothingness before GT5 - they're going to benefit the game itself. As someone pointed out earlier, most of the important gameplay developments are the benefit we'll feel with GT5P - the full GT5 will essentially just be more cars, tracks and series. And that's the kind of info that it's really not too important to hear about given other developments like damage or online changes, that we are hearing about with GT5P.

It's not a case of "why are they telling us about GT5P and not GT5?" - they're essentially the same game.

Codemasters are probably only talking about the full F1 game because so many people are scared they'll ruin it with the awful GRID and DIRT game engine they're using.
 
I personally like a game with no damage it has always made Gran turismo better IMO, id love the car to actually get dirty and have dirt marks at the end like real life cars that race.
If just adding damage to the cars will prolong development by 2 years then by all means I think they should cut it out just like they cut Online in Gt4 due to time restrictions.

Yes I do realise they are working on Gt5 when they release Gt5 Prologue but I dam hope that this isnt all they have done in the full game because this would make me worry quite a bit.

And about codemasters they are one of the biggest game companies around and they do talk to their fanbase and im sure they will not screw up the biggest sporting game licence in the world.
 
Yes I do realise they are working on Gt5 when they release Gt5 Prologue but I dam hope that this isnt all they have done in the full game because this would make me worry quite a bit.

I expect that the interface in the full game will be different, more like previous full GTs were with different areas of the city or world where you could go around and buy cars, as well as including used cars as expected, tuning, manufacturer events, the normal sort of GT events we expect and so-on.

The interface is the stuff we don't really need to know about. The things we do need to know about, the online mode, damage, any changes in graphics, sound, handling etc - they're all the things that are being introduced on Prologue that we can experience for ourselves, that will make the full game better 👍

And about codemasters they are one of the biggest game companies around and they do talk to their fanbase and im sure they will not screw up the biggest sporting game licence in the world.

That's possibly wishful thinking. I've played and owned virtually every Colin McRae and Touring Car game they've produced since the originals of each series, and having played their two PS3 attempts I've no inclination to stay with the series unless they make some big changes. If they screw up the F1 game as much as they have the other titles (in my opinion) then it'll be yet another game of theirs I won't be buying.
 
you are also being rude with the fact "Polyphony know more then all their fans"

I'm not rude. I'm just making logical conclusion driven by the presumption that group of people who are leading the game design in PD - not Yamauchi himself - are probably a decade ahead of us with ideas, concepts and suggestions.

I can make that conclusion, because GT series track-records clearly shows it.

And with deep respect to all people - as being driving-racing fan for decade and the half now, with numerous racing titles played - I still haven't find ANY GREAT and INNOVATIVE idea on any forum I've visited in last decade of existance of commercial internet and communities (even in the legendary times of Kenji's granturismo.com).

There were good ideas, intriguing concepts and such, but nothing was GROUNDBREAKING - and 99% of suggestions were just gameplay or structural concepts already seen in other racing titles.

Which leads us to my main point that you didn't understand in full.

Gran Turismo series track-record is a clear example od groundbreaking ideas that comes form game designers in Polyphony - Takeshi Yokouchi, Hirotaka Komiyama, Tomokazu Murase, Yuichi Matsumoto, Masaaki Goto, Yamauchi himself and all other people involved.

First game gave us fully detailed concept of racing "normal" cars in favour of their racing-counterparts as was dominant in genre. It also offered prefectly implemented idea of "tuning" the cars (up to infamous Racing Modification), as well as overall idea of OWNERSHIP - which is the main philosophy behind all Gran Turismo games so far. Car Wash (and it's influence on aerodynamics) and Used Cars - with idea of "days" that pass inside the game structure - are just of few groundbraking concepts of the first GT game. Idea of Liceence Test - with it's complexity - is also groundbraking, as well as it was the whole Gran Turismo World mode - which is today a standard in genre.

GT2 gave us enourmously detailed Time Trial concept, still unprecedeneted on both consoles and PC. Shame it didn't appeared in such design in any game after GT2. Also, groundbraking fact of GT2 was sheer number of cars and tracks.

GT3 pushed further concept of ownership, with Oil Change, idea of tracking the mileage for each car and counter-effect of mileage on engine/car condition.

GT4 made a final effort in that area, with introducing the chasis-wear, recyling of car and expanded concept of owner's maintenance of the vehicle. It aslo gave us groundbraking concept of trainable virtual-driver (B-Spec mode) - cocept which will hopefully be expanded in GT5, together with concept of the ownership.
PhotoMode was also great, but it was already made before in SegaGT2002 game, so it was not 100% groundbraking. But, the ability to make a photo in the way GT4 gave us - and wiith option to save the photo on USB stick or print it put directly form PS2 - was groundbreaking.

All that shows that PD is thinking the way ahead of any of us - who are still looking for some features that other games have and GT still lacks - from basics such as changable car color after purchasing, to complex issues such as changable day/night cycle.
I think we all can safely presume that PD is 100% aware of all features that OTHER games have, but GT series track-record so far clearly shows us that their focus is different - they are trying to make breaktroguhs in NEW fields, in features that no other games have.

And maybe that is the reason why they are alwyas keeping their work low-profile, without communicating with the audience.

But I can tell that is exactly the main reason why I love GT series so much in favour to all other racing games.
 
Yes Gran turismo is the best series in the world easily.
Amar maybe you could help you seem to know your GT more then I do, is this interface in prologue, has anything been said about it being in the full game? because I thought and will always think GT4's map was so much more epic and the map was always somewhat more of a GT trademark to toss it out like that over a simple Codemasters styled menu is absurd.
Gt4's menu was so welcoming and well just plain amazing and worlds ahead of other games and the other games in its series.
 
Yes Gran turismo is the best series in the world easily.
Amar maybe you could help you seem to know your GT more then I do, is this interface in prologue, has anything been said about it being in the full game? because I thought and will always think GT4's map was so much more epic and the map was always somewhat more of a GT trademark to toss it out like that over a simple Codemasters styled menu is absurd.
Gt4's menu was so welcoming and well just plain amazing and worlds ahead of other games and the other games in its series.

I mentioned briefly about the interface in my post. I think we can safely assume that GT5's main screen will be more similar to GT4 and previous than it will to GT5P - GT5P is giving us the bare minimum of features from that perspective and doesn't need a big "world" interface like the main GT games do. If you think back to a game like GT Concept, the interface on that was fairly simple too - I seem to remember it was based on a "hub" with various races all around the edge. It was all that game needed, but when GT4 came out it had a more familiar and in-depth layout, as we'd seen similar to GT2 (I can't remember the interface on GT3 or GT4P as I don't have those games any longer).
 
Gt3 had a small map like Gt2 but Gt4 map is beyond incredible to me :P i dont know why if it is not like that in Gt5 I will cry :(
 
Change is good. With the expanded capabilities of the PS3, I think we'll see some basic similarities to previous versions but with a whole new approach in the way this game is used. Whatever they do, I'm sure there will be new concepts introduced in GT5 that no other racing title has seen before. Let it be.
 
We are in a new era of Gran Turismo. I can't see going "backwards" to a map.

If it's done with the clean elegant style of gt5p interface, i think it could very well be awesome but that's just me, I trust PD in their user interface philosophy because, so far so good all of them have been awesome :P
 
Ok as much as I understand what you mean about the changes not being applied to study how things work and them being on top of everything, there's still one thing I can't get my head around, and is the fact of why in heavens name are they not using private servers, I mean wouldn't an enviroment without the amount of lag and disconnects (which happen less often nowadays yes) be a better set to study the way things work at least on the online basis?
 
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