Comfort Challenge

[Jubby]

Pick one car, complete the Grand Valley 300km and Laguna Seca in the same production car and the Tsukuba 4h race with a Miata while meeting certain criteria and limits with just Comfort tires. The races can be done in any order. GTSail290 has been a significant contributer to this process, so thank you.

This isn't designed to be easy, yet be somewhat difficult while making running these A-spec races interesting and competing with others. I have tested these regulations and these races are able to be won, each with their own intrigue.

Regulations:
1. Production cars only. No concept cars, Racing Modifications okay.
2. Only ABS allowed, no SRF, TCS, etc.
3. Must use same car for Grand Valley and Laguna Seca races.
4. Must use Comfort compounds- See Race Specs
5. The lineup of competitors you face must be the first upon PS3 boot-up.
6. Power Limiter must be at or above 80%.

Races:
1. Grand Valley 300km
2. Tsukuba 4h
3. Laguna Seca 200mi

Car Specs:
Grand Valley 300km: Maximum HP 350hp. Minimum Weight 1150kg. Use each tire compound for a minimum of 15 laps*.
Tsukuba 4h: No HP regulation. Minimum Weight 1000kg. Use each tire compound for a minimum of 50 laps, each*.
Laguna Seca 200mi: Maximum HP 400hp, Minimum Weight 1150kg. Use each tire compound for a minimum of 15 laps*.
To Clarify:
*Must use CH for at least # laps, CM for at least # laps, and CS for at least # laps.
Make as many pit stops as you'd like, and you can exceed stated lap requirements (Example: Use CM at Tsukuba for 60 laps).​

Please include the following:
1. Vehicle
2. Specs specified above (hp, kg, and PP)
3. Pit laps and Tire Choices
4. Total time/laps(4h).
Optional, but preferred: Margin of victory and anything else you want.
***A note about the leaderboards: Margin of victory measures margin of victory compared to length of race (time). A margin of victory that I would consider a "blow-out" would be 3-5% or greater.

Leaderboards:
^did not achieve victory​

Grand Valley:
Lowest HP:
280hp: Axletramp- Spoon S2000 '00^
319hp: GTSail290- Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X GSR '07
320hp: Jubby-Subaru Impreza Type RA RM '05
350hp: GTSail290- RUF RGT '00

Lowest PP:
450pp: Axletramp- Spoon S2000 '00^
481pp: GTSail290- Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X GSR '07
486pp: GTSail290- RUF RGT '00
504pp: Jubby-Subaru Impreza Type RA RM '05

Lowest HP/Tonne:
243.478: Axletramp- Spoon S2000 '00^
245.385: GTSail290- Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X GSR '07
252.964: Jubby-Subaru Impreza Type RA RM '05
259.259: GTSail290- RUF RGT '00

Largest Margin %:(This measures margin of victory equally)
1.69565%: Jubby-Subaru Impreza Type RA RM '05
1.20062%: GTSail290- Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X GSR '07
0.35828%: GTSail290- RUF RGT '00
-0.49731%: Axletramp- Spoon S2000 '00^

Laguna Seca:
Lowest HP:
320hp: Jubby-Subaru Impreza Type RA RM '05
335hp: GTSail290- Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X GSR '07
385hp: GTSail290- RUF RGT '00

Lowest PP:
488pp: GTSail290- Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X GSR '07
499pp: GTSail290- RUF RGT '00
504pp: Jubby-Subaru Impreza Type RA RM '05

Lowest HP/Tonne:
252.964: Jubby-Subaru Impreza Type RA RM '05
257.692: GTSail290- Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X GSR '07
285.185: GTSail290- RUF RGT '00

Largest Margin %:(This measures margin of victory equally)
1.16468%: Jubby-Subaru Impreza Type RA RM '05
0.46810%: GTSail290- Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X GSR '07
0.42098%: GTSail290- RUF RGT '00

Tsukuba:

Lowest HP:
177hp: GTSail290- Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04
183hp: GTSail290- Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04

Lowest PP:
409pp: GTSail290- Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04
410pp: GTSail290- Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04

Lowest HP/Tonne:
173.529: GTSail290- Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04
179.411: GTSail290- Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04

Largest Margin %:(This measures margin of victory equally)
0.93342%: GTSail290- Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04
0.76206%: GTSail290- Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04

I will be looking for ways to combine the three races for an overall category. This will be coming... soon!

 

[GTsail]

.....The idea: Pick one car, complete 3 endurance races with certain criteria and limits with just Comfort tires. Races can be done in any order

Car Limits:
1. Production cars only. No concept cars, Racing Modifications okay.
2. Minimum weight at all times: 1300kg
3. Maximum hp: Varies per race.
4. Maximum PP: Varies per race.

Other Regulations:
1. Must use same vehicle for all 4 races
2. Pit stops require each stop for a complete fuel fill up.

Races:
1. Grand Valley 300km
2. Laguna Seca 200mi
3. Nurburgring 4h

Interesting idea Jubby

I would like to give this a try.

I need to finish another Laguna Seca race first, but once that's done, expect to see me on the tracks!

Its too bad that you couldn't include the 4 hour Tsukuba race in the "Comfort Challenge", because I think it would be a nice track to use comfort tires on.

Its also too bad that PD made the 4 hour race a Miata "only" race. I know its the same as the GT4 race, but really, PD could have shown some imagination during the development of GT5. The 9 hour Tsukuba race is just too long to be very much fun at the Tsukuba track.

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[Jubby]

There, new tested regulations posted. Please have at it, everyone, and I hope to be adding a leaderboard to the OP when we have a few people who have run their race(s)

 

[axletramp]

Grand Valley 300km: Maximum HP 350hp. Minimum Weight 1250kg. Use each tire compound for a minimum of 15 laps.

Not sure what you mean there. Can you use one comfort compound for the entire race or do you need to use all three (hard, medium & soft)?

This looks like fun, although I tend to avoid comfort tyres like the plague.

 

[Jubby]

Not sure what you mean there. Can you use one comfort compound for the entire race or do you need to use all three (hard, medium & soft)?

This looks like fun, although I tend to avoid comfort tyres like the plague.

Use each soft, medium, and hard for at least 15 laps each. I'll make it more clear in the OP.

You can do 20 laps each... or 15 on hard, 20 on medium, 25 on soft.

I know people like a challenge, and most try to stay away from Comforts, like I do... so I thought this might make it fun.

 

[axletramp]

OK, thanks for clearing that up. 👍

 

[GTsail]

My first attempt will be with a RUF RGT '00 (silver livery).

I take my RGT to the tuning shop and ask them for some comfort tires, all grades. The guys at the tire shop give me a strange look, but are willing to sell me some 2 year old comfort tires that they've been using to display their promotional products. I then have my pit crew do some wrenching on my RUF and end up with the following spec's:

Horsepower: 350
Weight: 1350 (20 kg of ballast)
PPvalue: 486
P.Limiter: 98.6%
Tires: all 3 grades of comfort tires

Sitting on the grid at the Grand Valley track is the mandatory grid # 1 lineup with the Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX Ver.S TT on pole. I slot my RGT into the 7th place position, just behind the Nissan 300ZX 2seater Z32 '98.

I'm starting the race on comfort medium tires, so when the flag drops its time to learn how to drive on some low-grip rubber. During the first three laps, I do a decent job of driving my RUF, so I make decent progress towards the front of the race.

On lap # 4, I take the lead of the race as I cross the bridge.

On lap # 7, I brake too late for the first hairpin and lose about 4 seconds driving thru the sand.

At the end of lap # 10, I have a 3 second lead over the Mazda RX-7 Type RS.

At the end of lap # 15, I dive into the pits, still with a 3 second lead over the Mazda RX-7, and have my pit crew install a set of comfort hard tires. While I'm in the pits, the 3rd place Impreza WRX STI drives past, shortly followed by the 4th place Nissan Silvia spec-R, so as I get underway again, I've been dropped into 4th place.

As soon as I get released by the pit-speed limiter, I perform a wonderful 360, drive off the tarmac, and smack the wall. Cold comfort hard tires have no grip!!! Lesson learned!!! I get passed by the 5th place Fairlady Z 300ZX Ver.S for my troubles.

At the first checkpoint on lap # 16, I see that I've fallen 40 seconds behind the race leading Mazda RX-7.

At the end of lap # 17, I see that I've fallen 48 seconds behind the race leading Mazda RX-7 after a 2.23.960 lap. I'm certainly losing time to the Mazda RX-7 since I'm having to drive very carefully on the CH tires.

At the end of lap # 20, I get the news that I've fallen 60 seconds behind the race leading Mazda RX-7. The 6th place Skyline Coupe 350GT has caught me and has spent the last two laps filling my mirrors with its front-grill.

At the end of lap # 23, the 4th place Fairlady Z 300ZX Ver.S pits, so I drive past and take over 4th place in the race. I'm now 68 seconds behind the race leader, as I drive up the S/F straight.

Its getting pretty late so I pause the game...ZZZZZZZZZZZ

Its now morning, so I un-pause the game and begin lap # 24. I immediately drive off into the sand going into the first hairpin and lose about 9 seconds. Overnight I've forgotten how tough it is to drive on comfort hard tires!!! Oh well.... At the first checkpoint on lap # 24, I see that I'm now 1 minute and 18 seconds behind the race leading Mazda RX-7. I've also been passed by the Skyline Coupe 350GT, so I'm currently back in 5th place in the race.

At the end of lap # 25, the 4th place Skyline Coupe 350GT pits, so after about 5 seconds, I drive past and re-take 4th place in the race.

After 26 laps, I get the news that I'm still 1 minute and 18 seconds behind the race leader, who is no longer pulling away from me. His tires must be just about shot.

On lap # 27, I notice that I'm being shown in 3rd place. ??? Somehow I passed the Nissan Silvia spec-R when he pitted without me noticing.

At the beginning of lap # 28, the Nissan Silvia spec-R out-brakes me going into the first hairpin, so he drives past me and drops me into 4th place. The Silvia is on nice fresh tires, so he made the pass on me with ease, sadly.

The race leading Mazda RX-7 pits at the end of lap # 29, which allows the Impreza Sedan WRX STI to take over first place in the race. At the end of lap # 29, I'm shown as being 1 minute and 15 seconds behind the Impreza WRX.

After 30 laps, I dive into the pits and have my crew install a set of comfort soft tires. I was 1 minute and 17 seconds behind the race leading Impreza WRX when I pitted. While I'm in the pits, the Skyline Coupe 350GT drives past as well as the Fairlady Z 300ZX Ver.S, so I get dropped into 6th place.

At the first checkpoint on lap # 31, I get the news that I've fallen 1 minute and 45 seconds behind the race leading Impreza Sedan WRX.

On lap # 32, I set a new lap record of 2.15.343. Comfort soft tires feel pretty good!! At the end of the lap, I'm only 1 minute and 28 seconds behind the race leading Impreza Sedan WRX.

I set a new lap record of 2.14.840 on lap # 34, and end the lap 1 minute and 21 seconds behind the race leading Impreza Sedan WRX.

On lap # 35, I catch and pass both the Toyota Celica GT-FOUR and the Infiniti G35 Coupe. I may be in 6th place, but at least I can pass the back-markers!!

On lap # 36, I pass the 5th place Skyline Coupe 350GT going thru the second hairpin. I also pass the 4th place Fairlady Z 300ZX Ver.S as we cross the bridge. At the end of the lap, I'm 1 minute and 19 seconds behind the Mazda RX-7 who has re-taken 1st place in the race when the Impreza Sedan WRX pitted about a lap ago.

Lap # 37 see's a new lap record of 2.13.918.

I'm getting used to the comfort tires, so on lap # 39, I smash my lap record with a 2.12.252 lap.

At the end of lap # 40, I get the news that I'm 65 seconds behind the race leading Mazda RX-7. Twenty laps to go. Hmmmm, I need to find 3+ seconds a lap. I think that its possible!

On lap # 42, I catch and pass the 3rd place Nissan Silvia spec-R going thru the 2nd hairpin.

After 45 laps, I get the news that the margin to the 1st place Mazda RX-7 is down to 42 seconds after a 2.13.937 lap.

As I cross the bridge on lap # 48, I've reduced the RX-7's lead to 30 seconds. However, my tires are starting to go off. They have lots of life according to the tire bars, but I can feel them losing grip in the corners. I don't see how I would be able to nurse them for another 12 laps, so I dive into the pits for a new set of CS tires at the end of the lap.

At the first checkpoint on lap # 49, I see that I've fallen a full 60 seconds behind the race leading Mazda RX-7.

After 50 laps, I'm only 50 seconds behind the race leading Mazda RX-7 as I start to reel him in again.

At the bridge checkpoint on lap # 53, I get the news that I'm only 30 seconds behind the race leading Mazda RX-7.

I'm right behind the 2nd place Impreza Sedan WRX as we cross the S/F line to begin lap # 56. The Impreza beats me thru the 1st hairpin, but I pass him going into the 2nd hairpin, and take over 2nd place in the race. At the next checkpoint, I get the news that I'm only 9 seconds behind the race leading Mazda RX-7. At the end of lap # 56, the Mazda RX-7 dives into the pits, so I drive past and take over the race lead!!!

At the 1st checkpoint on lap # 57, I get the news that I have a 6 second lead over the Impreza Sedan WRX, who is now in 2nd place.

By the bridge checkpoint on lap # 59, I've opened up a 20 second lead over the Impreza Sedan WRX who is going pretty slowly on worn tires.

After 60 laps, the trophy is mine!

Race time: 2 hours, 19 minutes, 33.545 seconds

Finish order:
------------
1) Gtsail in the RUF RGT
2) Impreza WRX---------30 seconds back
3) Mazda RX-7----------40 seconds back
4) Silvia spec-R----------1min,50 secs back
5) Skyline Coupe---------1 lap down
6) Fairlady Z 300ZX------1 lap down
7) Nissan 300ZX---------1 lap down
8) Supra RZ-------------1 lap down
9) Mits GTO-------------1 lap down
10) Subaru Legacy--------2 laps down
11) Celica GT-FOUR------2 laps down
12) G35 Coupe----------2 laps down

Post race notes:
----------------
Actually, a pretty good race! Driving on comfort mediums and comfort softs aren't really too bad. Driving on the comfort hards though is just crazy! Four banana peels!

2nd Race at Laguna Seca:

I have my pit crew give my RUF RGT '00 some extra horsepower for the Laguna Seca race, so my RUF now has the following specs:

Horsepower: 385
Weight: 1350 (20kg of ballast)
PP value: 499
P. limiter: 97.4%
Tires: all 3 comfort tire grades

Sitting on the starting line are the mandatory grid # 1 lineup of AI cars with the Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe on pole, and the two rabbitts, the 2010 Camaro SS and the 2004 Corvette C5 in 8th and 9th place, respectively.

I decide to start the race on comfort hard tires just to have some fun!!

The flag drops and we're off for 90 laps. During lap # 1, I hold my 7th place position due to the use of some judicious blocking (its actually not too tough to stay ahead of the other cars during this first lap because the other AI are very slow and tentative on cold tires right from the start. This is not true for lap # 2, since the AI will have warmed up their tires, so blocking will not be worth while on subsequent laps if you are on comfort hard tires), so at the end of the lap I'm only 7 seconds behind the race leader.

During lap # 2, the 2004 Corvette C5 gets past me going thru the corkscrew, so I end the lap in 8th place, 10 seconds behind the race leader.

During lap # 3, the 2010 Camaro SS passes me going thru turn # 4, so I end the lap in 9th place, some 11.5 seconds behind the race leader, after an early lap record of 1.48.509.

During lap # 4, the 2000 Corvette C5 drives past me going thru turn # 6 and up the hill towards the corkscrew, so I end the lap in 10th place, some 14 seconds behind the race leader.

On lap # 6, the '69 Camaro SS hits my right-rear-fender going thru turn # 3 and spins me out!! I lose about 8 seconds and end the lap in 11th place, a full 30 seconds behind the race leader. I wasn't trying to block the '69 Camaro SS, I guess he just got impatient. Blocking with comfort hard tires is not recommended!

On lap # 8, I set a new lap record of 1.47.416.

After 10 laps, I'm 43 seconds behind the race leader as I continue to lose time with my comfort hard tires.

On lap # 12, I set a new lap record of 1.47.182.

After 15 laps, I dive into the pits and have my pit crew install some comfort medium tires. The margin to the race leader was 52 seconds when I pitted.

The 12th place Cuda 440 Six Pack is about 5 seconds behind me when I get released from my pits and begin lap # 16. At the first checkpoint on lap # 16, I get the news that I've fallen 1 minute and 18 seconds behind the race leader.

On lap # 18, I set a new lap record of 1.44.583, since I'm now on CM tires, and end the lap 1 minute and 17 seconds behind the race leader.

On lap # 20, I set another lap record of 1.43.432 and end the lap 1 minute and 15 seconds behind the race leader.

By the end of lap # 22, I've almost caught the 10th place '69 Camaro SS, who is following a 3-car pack being lead by the Ford Mustang GT '05. I end lap # 22, 1 minute and 14 seconds behind the race leader after a 1.43.124 lap.

On lap # 23, I pass the 10th place '69 Camaro SS, the 9th place Mustang SVT Cobra, the 8th place Buick GNX and the 7th place Ford Mustang GT '05, who are all nose-to-tail on the track.

After 25 laps, I'm shown in 7th place in the race, 1 minute and 15 seconds behind the race leader.

On lap # 27, I pass the 6th place Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe and end the lap still 1 minute and 15 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5.

On lap # 28, I pass the 12th place Cuda 440 Six Pack, and put him a lap down. I also set a new lap record of 1.42.894 and end the lap only 1 minute and 12 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5.

At the end of lap # 30, I dive into the pits and put on a set of comfort soft tires. At the last checkpoint on lap # 30, I was 1 minute and 10 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5. While I'm in the pits, the Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe drives past and drops me back down to 7th place in the race.

At the first checkpoint on lap # 31, I see that I've fallen 1 minute and 37 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5. During lap # 31, I re-pass the Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe and re-claim 6th place in the race.

At the end of lap # 32, I get the news that I'm 1 minute and 30 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5 after a new lap record of 1.40.989. Comfort soft tires are just great!!!

On lap # 3x, the Dodge Challenger R/T pits, so I'm able to drive past and take over 5th place in the race.

At the end of lap # 33, the Plymouth Prowler pits. This allows me to pass him just as he starts to move again, so as I begin lap # 34, I claim 4th place in the race.

As I begin lap # 35, I see that the 2004 Corvette C5 has pitted from the race lead and fallen back down the grid order to 3rd place. The new race leader is the 2010 Camaro SS, who is shown as being 61 seconds ahead of me. Second place has been taken over by the 2000 Corvette C5, who has not yet pitted.

At the end of lap # 35, the race leading 2010 Camaro SS pits, which allows the 2000 Corvette C5 to take the lead of the race. I set a new lap record of 1.40.505 on lap # 35 and end the lap only 25 seconds behind the race leading 2000 Corvette C5.

As I brake for turn one on lap # 36, I pass the 3rd place 2010 Camaro SS who is just starting to leave the pits. I'm now shown in 3rd place!!

On lap # 37, the 2004 Corvette C5 passes the 2000 Corvette C5 and takes over the race lead.

I set a new lap record of 1.40.504 on lap # 38 (an improvement of 1/1000 of a second!), and end the lap only 13 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5.

On lap # 40, I catch and pass the 2nd place 2000 Corvette C5.

I set a new lap record of 1.39.821 on lap # 42, and end the lap 11 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5.

I set another lap record of 1.39.453 on lap # 45, and end the lap only 6 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5.

more to follow/see post # 12 below......

3rd Race at Tsukuba:

Its time for some Miata action:

After carefully checking Jubby's race restrictions, I search high and low in my garage for a suitable Miata. After some minor testing, I settle for a relatively new silver Mazda Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04. After some wrenching by my fabled pit crew, my Miata has the following spec's:

Horsepower: 177
Weight: 1020 (stage 1 wgt reduction, then 33kg of ballast)
PP value: 410
Tires: all 3 grades of comfort tires
P. Limiter: 91.8%
No skid

Sitting on the starting line at Tsukuba are the mandatory grid # 1 cars as follows:

1) MX-5 1.8 RS NB '98 (Andre)
2) MX-5 NA '89 (Vinci)
3) Roadster 1800RS NB '00 (Sanger)
4) Eunos Roadster V-Special II NA '93 (Faure)
5) MX-5 1800RS NB '00 (Etienne)
6) MX-5 V-Special II NA '93 (Fenstermacher)
7) GTsail in the Mazda Roadster 1600 NR-A
8) Roadster 1800RS NB '04 (Clark)
9) Roadster 1.8RS NB '98 (Philippe)
10) Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04 (Giles)
11) Eunos Roadster S-Special I NA '95 (Russell)
12) MX-5 J-Limited NA '91 (Lozano)

I decide to start the race on comfort hard tires, so the beginning of the race won't be pretty!

Off the start-line, I accelerate thru the field and take over 4th place in the race going thru turn # one. I pass the 1st place Andre/MX-5 1.8 RS NB '98 going up the long straight, and end the first lap in 1st place with a 0.4 second lead. (race note: It took me at least 10 attempts before I was able to reach first place during lap # one. Usually I could reach 3rd place by the end of lap # 1, so I would then abandon the race).

Its now time to earn my paycheck........

Driving on comfort hard tires takes quite a bit of concentration, even though my Miata Roadster likes the Tsukuba track. For the next four laps I push my Miata like crazy to stay ahead of the other AI. I'm just slightly faster than the AI going down the straights, but the AI kill me in the three major turns. I almost always beat the AI to the turns and then hug the apex like my life depends upon it (which it does!).

By the end of lap # 5, I have the entire field bunched up behind me, but I have a 1.1 second lead over the Vinci/MX-5 NA '89, after an early lap record of 1.13.879.

More apex hugging...

After 10 laps, I have a 0.5 second lead over the Vinci/MX-5 NA '89.

More apex hugging...

After 15 laps, I have a 0.777 second lead over the Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00.

More apex hugging...

After 20 laps, I have a 0.499 second lead over the Sanger/Roadster 1800RS NB '00.

More apex hugging...

After 25 laps, I have a 0.849 second lead over the Clark/Roadster 1800RS NB '04.

On lap # 26, I set a new lap record of 1.13.786.

More apex hugging...

After 30 laps, I have a 0.600 second lead over the Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00, after a new lap record of 1.13.677.

More apex hugging...

After 35 laps, I have a 0.559 second lead over the Sanger/Roadster 1800RS NB '00.

More apex hugging...

After 40 laps, I have a 0.368 second lead over the Sanger/Roadster 1800RS NB '00.

More apex hugging...

After 45 laps, I have a 0.648 second lead over the Sanger/Roadster 1800RS NB '00

More apex hugging...

On lap # 49, I set a new lap record of 1.13.502.

At the end of lap # 50, I dive into the pits from 1st place for a set of comfort medium tires. The entire field drives past because they were all stacked up behind the 2nd place Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00.

more to follow/see post # 26 below.....
See you on the tracks!
GTsail

 

[axletramp]

Excellent ice breaker GTsail290. 👍 I presume the extra HP makes up for the lack of grip? And you went pretty heavy there as well which can't have helped with understeer. I've selected my car and tuned her as I see fit - extra Brownie points if you can guess what it is.

This is a little alien to me as I usually go for a low PP and tune from there with loads of grip and less of a top end to make the enduros competitive. Will be running mine in the next week or so.

 

[Dotini]

Regulations:
1. Production cars only. No concept cars, Racing Modifications okay.
2. Only ABS allowed, no SRF, TCS, etc.
3. Must use same car for Grand Valley and Laguna Seca races.
4. Must use Comfort compounds- See Race Specs
5. The lineup of competitors you face must be the first upon PS3 boot-up.

I would suggest the regs be amended to specify a minimum PL, similar to the other threads. It should be somewhere between 85% and 96% to be in good agreement with the other three threads.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[GTsail]

Excellent ice breaker GTsail290. 👍 I presume the extra HP makes up for the lack of grip? And you went pretty heavy there as well which can't have helped with understeer.

Thanks, Yeah, I've got a ton of horsepower. A little more than was necessary, but since it was my first attempt, I didn't really have any feel for how tough this "Challenge" was going to be. Once you give it a try, you will see that some extra horsepower is necessary to make up for the lack of grip.

I would suggest the regs be amended to specify a minimum PL, similar to the other threads. It should be somewhere between 85% and 96% to be in good agreement with the other three threads.

I agree with Dotini's comments above, I think it would make sense to have a lower limit on the power limiter so this tuning option doesn't get overly abused.

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[Jubby]

Power limiter: I understand the request. My concerns for your consideration:

-The one problem I do have is that there is a minimum weight, whereas the others don't and caps a power to weight ratio.
-The only issue I see with the power limiter is the "flat line HP effect", correct?
-The 4h Nur does not have the limiter requirement, but I imagine it's "grandfathered" in. I personally don't think it's necessary, but I'd consider compromising at 75% due to the tire disadvantage.

What do you think?

 

[GTsail]

Its time for the 2nd Race at Laguna Seca:

I have my pit crew give my RUF RGT '00 some extra horsepower for the Laguna Seca race, so my RUF now has the following specs:

Horsepower: 385
Weight: 1350 (20kg of ballast)
PP value: 499
P. limiter: 97.4%
Tires: all 3 comfort tire grades

Sitting on the starting line are the mandatory grid # 1 lineup of AI cars with the Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe on pole, and the two rabbits, the 2010 Camaro SS and the 2004 Corvette C5 in 8th and 9th place, respectively.

I decide to start the race on comfort hard tires just to have some fun!!

The flag drops and we're off for 90 laps. During lap # 1, I hold my 7th place position due to the use of some judicious blocking (its actually not too tough to stay ahead of the other cars during this first lap because the other AI are very slow and tentative on cold tires right from the start. This is not true for lap # 2, since the AI will have warmed up their tires, so blocking will not be worth while on subsequent laps if you are on comfort hard tires), so at the end of the lap I'm only 7 seconds behind the race leader.

During lap # 2, the 2004 Corvette C5 gets past me going thru the corkscrew, so I end the lap in 8th place, 10 seconds behind the race leader.

During lap # 3, the 2010 Camaro SS passes me going thru turn # 4, so I end the lap in 9th place, some 11.5 seconds behind the race leader, after an early lap record of 1.48.509.

During lap # 4, the 2000 Corvette C5 drives past me going thru turn # 6 and up the hill towards the corkscrew, so I end the lap in 10th place, some 14 seconds behind the race leader.

On lap # 6, the '69 Camaro SS hits my right-rear-fender going thru turn # 3 and spins me out!! I lose about 8 seconds and end the lap in 11th place, a full 30 seconds behind the race leader. I wasn't trying to block the '69 Camaro SS, I guess he just got impatient. Blocking with comfort hard tires is not recommended!

On lap # 8, I set a new lap record of 1.47.416.

After 10 laps, I'm 43 seconds behind the race leader as I continue to lose time with my comfort hard tires.

On lap # 12, I set a new lap record of 1.47.182.

After 15 laps, I dive into the pits and have my pit crew install some comfort medium tires. The margin to the race leader was 52 seconds when I pitted.

The 12th place Cuda 440 Six Pack is about 5 seconds behind me when I get released from my pits and begin lap # 16. At the first checkpoint on lap # 16, I get the news that I've fallen 1 minute and 18 seconds behind the race leader.

On lap # 18, I set a new lap record of 1.44.583, since I'm now on CM tires, and end the lap 1 minute and 17 seconds behind the race leader.

On lap # 20, I set another lap record of 1.43.432 and end the lap 1 minute and 15 seconds behind the race leader.

By the end of lap # 22, I've almost caught the 10th place '69 Camaro SS, who is following a 3-car pack being lead by the Ford Mustang GT '05. I end lap # 22, 1 minute and 14 seconds behind the race leader after a 1.43.124 lap.

On lap # 23, I pass the 10th place '69 Camaro SS, the 9th place Mustang SVT Cobra, the 8th place Buick GNX and the 7th place Ford Mustang GT '05, who are all nose-to-tail on the track.

After 25 laps, I'm shown in 7th place in the race, 1 minute and 15 seconds behind the race leader.

On lap # 27, I pass the 6th place Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe and end the lap still 1 minute and 15 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5.

On lap # 28, I pass the 12th place Cuda 440 Six Pack, and put him a lap down. I also set a new lap record of 1.42.894 and end the lap only 1 minute and 12 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5.

At the end of lap # 30, I dive into the pits and put on a set of comfort soft tires. At the last checkpoint on lap # 30, I was 1 minute and 10 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5. While I'm in the pits, the Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe drives past and drops me back down to 7th place in the race.

At the first checkpoint on lap # 31, I see that I've fallen 1 minute and 37 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5. During lap # 31, I re-pass the Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe and re-claim 6th place in the race.

At the end of lap # 32, I get the news that I'm 1 minute and 30 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5 after a new lap record of 1.40.989. Comfort soft tires are just great!!!

On lap # 3x, the Dodge Challenger R/T pits, so I'm able to drive past and take over 5th place in the race.

At the end of lap # 33, the Plymouth Prowler pits. This allows me to pass him just as he starts to move again, so as I begin lap # 34, I claim 4th place in the race.

As I begin lap # 35, I see that the 2004 Corvette C5 has pitted from the race lead and fallen back down the grid order to 3rd place. The new race leader is the 2010 Camaro SS, who is shown as being 61 seconds ahead of me. Second place has been taken over by the 2000 Corvette C5, who has not yet pitted.

At the end of lap # 35, the race leading 2010 Camaro SS pits, which allows the 2000 Corvette C5 to take the lead of the race. I set a new lap record of 1.40.505 on lap # 35 and end the lap only 25 seconds behind the race leading 2000 Corvette C5.

As I brake for turn one on lap # 36, I pass the 3rd place 2010 Camaro SS who is just starting to leave the pits. I'm now shown in 3rd place!!

On lap # 37, the 2004 Corvette C5 passes the 2000 Corvette C5 and takes over the race lead.

I set a new lap record of 1.40.504 on lap # 38 (an improvement of 1/1000 of a second!), and end the lap only 13 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5.

On lap # 40, I catch and pass the 2nd place 2000 Corvette C5.

I set a new lap record of 1.39.821 on lap # 42, and end the lap 11 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5.

I set another lap record of 1.39.453 on lap # 45, and end the lap only 6 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5.

On lap # 49, I catch and pass the 1st place 2004 Corvette C5 because he gets blocked by the Buick GNX '87 (thanks!). At the end of the lap, I see that I have a 2 second lead over the 2004 Corvette C5.

During lap # 51, I catch and pass the 8th place Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe, and put him a lap down.

On lap # 53, I catch and pass the 6th place 2000 Corvette C5 and the 5th place Plymouth Prowler, and put them both a lap down.

After 54 laps, I've been able to open up a 10 second lead over the 2004 Corvette C5, who has been held up by some of the back-markers. My tires are starting to lose their grip, but I think that I can make them last until lap # 60 before pitting.

On lap # 56, I catch and pass the 7th place '69 Camaro SS.

On lap # 59, I catch and pass the 4th place Dodge Challenger R/T.

At the end of lap # 60, I dive into the pits for a new set of CS tires with a 17 second lead over the 2004 Corvette C5. While I'm in the pits, I get passed by 3 cars, one of them being the 2004 Corvette C5, so as I begin lap # 61, I've fallen back to 2nd place in the race.

At the end of lap # 61, I see that I'm only 14 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5.

On lap # 65, I catch and pass the 4th place 2000 Corvette C5 and put him a lap down. At the end of the lap, I'm only 1.5 seconds behind the race leading 2004 Corvette C5, who is going pretty slowly on worn tires.

At the end of lap # 66, I drive past the 2004 Corvette C5 and re-take the lead of the race as we exit turn # 11 and head up the S/F straight.

The 2004 Corvette C5 pits at the end of lap # 68, which allows the 2010 Camaro SS to take over 2nd place in the race. At the end of lap # 69, I have a 20 second lead over the 2010 Camaro SS.

The 2010 Camaro SS pits at the end of lap # 70, which allows the 2004 Corvette C5 to take over 2nd place again. At the end of the lap, I see that I have a 35 second lead over the 2004 Corvette C5.

On lap # 72, I catch and pass the 8th place Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe again.

After 75 laps, I have a 34 second lead over the 2004 Corvette C5 after a 1.40.843 lap.

On lap # 77, I pass the 6th place Plymouth Prowler and put him another lap down.

After 80 laps, I still have a 33 second lead over the 2004 Corvette C5.

On lap # 81, I catch and pass the 7th place '69 Camaro SS.

As I begin lap # 83, I pass the 5th place 2000 Corvette C5, who is just leaving the pits after his second pit stop. Somehow he's able to get his tires to last 41 laps!! I still have a 34 second lead over the 2004 Corvette C5 at this point.

On lap # 85, after a nice 1.40.492 lap, I see that I have increased my lead to 36 seconds over the 2004 Corvette C5.

Lap # 88, is a comparatively slow 1.45.395 lap, as I'm starting to struggle a little on worn tires. My lead over the 2004 Corvette C5 has increased to 38 seconds, so I should be ok.

At the last checkpoint on lap # 90, I get the news that I have a 39.556 second lead over the 2nd place 2004 Corvette C5.

After 90 laps, I win another trophy!

Race time was: 2 hours, 36 minutes, and 22.436 seconds

Finishing order:
-----------------
1) GTsail in the RUF RGT
2) 2004 Corvette C5-------39.5 seconds back (BL 1.40.535)
3) 2010 Camaro SS--------57.5 seconds back (BL 1.40.340)
4) Challenger R/T----------1 lap down (BL 1.42.837)
5) 2000 Corvette C5-------2 laps down (BL 1.42.559)
6) Plymouth Prowler--------2 laps down (BL 1.44.086)
7) '69 Camaro SS----------3 laps down (BL 1.43.763)
8) Mustang SVT Cobra-----3 laps down (BL 1.44.196)
9) Pontiac GTO 5.7--------4 laps down (BL 1.46.220)
10) Buick GNX '87----------4 laps down
11) Mustang GT '05--------5 laps down
12) Cuda 440 Six Pack-----6 laps down

Post race notes:
----------------
Another pretty good race. The rabbits are pretty strong so you need some extra horsepower to stay with them. Once you get on the comfort medium tires, you start to catch the back-markers, so the race begins to feel quite fun.

See you on the tracks!
GTsail

 

[Dotini]

Power limiter: I understand the request. My concerns for your consideration:

-The one problem I do have is that there is a minimum weight, whereas the others don't and caps a power to weight ratio.
-The only issue I see with the power limiter is the "flat line HP effect", correct?
-The 4h Nur does not have the limiter requirement, but I imagine it's "grandfathered" in. I personally don't think it's necessary, but I'd consider compromising at 75% due to the tire disadvantage.

What do you think?

It takes some looking (inside the posts in the N4 thread), but Famine has very stern views on the flat-line PL power curve issue. He will disallow any run below 95%, and limits himself to 96%. Accordingly, when I run N4, I use no less than 96% power.

Your comfort challenge regs, for unstated reasons, impose a minimum weight which rules out many popular normal cars like the Lotus Elise, Mazda Miata, older Honda Civics, BMW 2002, Renault 5, etc., etc. So anybody wanting to run your challenge is automatically funneled into heavier cars. But then you have a HP maximum, which eliminates muscle cars, Corvettes, most V-8s, etc., unless you have a PL which converts internal combustion engines into friggin' electric motors (with a 75% PL ). But, hey, that's fine - it's your thread.

It would seem you have a special philosophy or idea in mind with the lineup, highly structured tire, weight and power rules. Once it all becomes clear and settled, I may be tempted to make a run. But not until then.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[GTsail]

.....Your comfort challenge regs, for unstated reasons, impose a minimum weight which rules out many popular normal cars like the Lotus Elise, Mazda Miata, older Honda Civics, BMW 2002, Renault 5, etc., etc. So anybody wanting to run your challenge is automatically funneled into heavier cars. But then you have a HP maximum, which eliminates muscle cars, Corvettes, most V-8s, etc., unless you have a PL which converts internal combustion engines into friggin' electric motors (with a 75% PL ). But, hey, that's fine - it's your thread.

It would seem you have a special philosophy or idea in mind with the lineup, highly structured tire, weight and power rules.

I suspect that Jubby's restrictive weight and horsepower regulations were envisioned to keep us all in similar cars.

Now that I've run the first two races, I don't think that they are necessarily required. If someone wants to run the "Challenge" with 600 horsepower and win by 2 laps, why does it matter? Their PP value would be very high, so they would not be listed very high on the Leaderboards.

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[axletramp]

I tend to agree with GTsail290 on this one. I'm going to use one of my most trusted cars on the first two runs by adding power and ballast. The power limiter will hardly come into it as the HP is so low to start with and will only have to go up.

I'm guessing Dotini's concern is that people will use lightened supercars at c.80% P/L, which is their choice but goes against the spirit of these challenges. Even so the more 'normal' sports and road cars are still more likely to win the PP battle.

 

[Jubby]

Thank you, Steve. I appreciate your opinion. I stand corrected on the N4 "code" (not really a reg, but a "code"). Also, I see your point on the PL.

It takes some looking (inside the posts in the N4 thread), but Famine has very stern views on the flat-line PL power curve issue. He will disallow any run below 95%, and limits himself to 96%. Accordingly, when I run N4, I use no less than 96% power.

Honestly, I never looked that deep into it, I've kept an eye on it, etc. but never saw it in the OP regs. Good eye. Thank you for the explanation.

Your comfort challenge regs, for unstated reasons, impose a minimum weight which rules out many popular normal cars like the Lotus Elise, Mazda Miata, older Honda Civics, BMW 2002, Renault 5, etc., etc. So anybody wanting to run your challenge is automatically funneled into heavier cars.

The minimum weight is to get people thinking about the heavier cars. Which makes the comfort tires idea harder. Putting comforts on an Elise or say a Suzuki GSX-R/4 doesn't make it as challenging.

But then you have a HP maximum, which eliminates muscle cars, Corvettes, most V-8s, etc., unless you have a PL which converts internal combustion engines into friggin' electric motors (with a 75% PL ).

I gotcha Steve. I have enough of an argument to make a change. See below.

Now that I've run the first two races, I don't think that they are necessarily required. If someone wants to run the "Challenge" with 600 horsepower and win by 2 laps, why does it matter? Their PP value would be very high, so they would not be listed very high on the Leaderboards.
Respectfully,
GTsail

You're right. Blasting away is what we did to win, initially(most of us). I imagine a few of us just slapped RS on them and flew. That's the point of requiring the Comforts.

In summary. Here's what I'd like to come to a consensus on. Power limit restriction at 80% (due to the HP differential between the two races) for Grand Valley and Laguna Seca. This does the things we need, avoiding the super cars, and remains a closer consistency with the other threads. This means a maximum pre-PL HP of 500. No power limiter restriction for the 4h Roadster race. -Note: I don't think a PL at Tsukuba is necessary, and it doesn't give that much of an edge between 80% and 60% PL with the Mazda. (If someone wants to self-impose that, you're welcome to it)

I won't "rule the thread" or any other via dictatorship, because I want people to join in the fun. That was my point of putting this on the forum; to drub up some fun competition. So, since you (Steve, Axletramp, and GTsail) have been wonderful with your input, if we can all come to a concensus with the regs in the previous paragraph we'll be off! (And GTsail's previous races won't be affected in the slightest)

 

[GTsail]

The minimum weight is to get people thinking about the heavier cars. Which makes the comfort tires idea harder. Putting comforts on an Elise or say a Suzuki GSX-R/4 doesn't make it as challenging.

In summary. Here's what I'd like to come to a consensus on. Power limit restriction at 80% (due to the HP differential between the two races) for Grand Valley and Laguna Seca. This does the things we need, avoiding the super cars, and remains a closer consistency with the other threads. This means a maximum pre-PL HP of 500. No power limiter restriction for the 4h Roadster race. -Note: I don't think a PL at Tsukuba is necessary, and it doesn't give that much of an edge between 80% and 60% PL with the Mazda.

I think that the minimum weight restriction is ok. It makes us run the races with heavier cars, which hopefully will make our cars closer in weight/spec to the AI cars, (and like you say, it should make it tougher to run on comfort tires).

I also think that a minimum power limiter of either 80% to 85% should work as well. We will gravitate towards whatever the lower limit is, but either number should work. The lower number would allow more higher-level cars into the race, while the higher number would reduce the HP distortion, but would also eliminate some cars from the races.

I would also recommend that the Miata race have the same percentage for the power limiter, for consistency sake. It might not make much of a difference in a Miata, but I'm sure that it will make some, and there's no particular reason to allow too much torque/HP distortion in our Miata's engines.

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[Jubby]

I think that the minimum weight restriction is ok. It makes us run the races with heavier cars, which hopefully will make our cars closer in weight/spec to the AI cars, (and like you say, it should make it tougher to run on comfort tires).

I also think that a minimum power limiter of either 80% to 85% should work as well. We will gravitate towards whatever the lower limit is, but either number should work. The lower number would allow more higher-level cars into the race, while the higher number would reduce the HP distortion, but would also eliminate some cars from the races.

I would also recommend that the Miata race have the same percentage for the power limiter, for consistency sake. It might not make much of a difference in a Miata, but I'm sure that it will make some, and there's no particular reason to allow too much torque/HP distortion in our Miata's engines.

Respectfully,
GTsail

Thank you for the thumbs up for the limit. If we get one or more signal towards the 80% limit in all races, then I'll institute it... and we'll all be off!

By the way, I set the weight limit in the Miata race at 1000kg on purpose- to disqualify the TC.

If anyone wants to run it(Roadster TC), we may need to look at a system that allows it, but takes away the advantage.

Note: I'm testing the regulations for the 80% limiter. There is a discernible difference, and may need a slight change in how long each tire is run, so if we go with the change, the length (currently 90 laps) will change based on my testing.

Update: I tested the updated Limiter. With the difference. The regulations would be: 175HP limit and 40 laps minimum for each soft, medium, and hard. This makes a very close race by the numbers. Good racers with good tunes would win every time, but a bad lap or two will cost you the win, probably. I'm updating this change now. (By the way, I checked 50 laps for the minimum tire requirements, and it's too much-without running the full race. If you want to do 50 laps, good luck.)

Also, to entice more entries and cars, I'm lowering the weight requirement to 1150kg. Good suggestion GTsail.

I'm just waiting on the consensus for the 80% limiter regulation for all cars at all tracks. We have GTsail's vote already.

 

[GTsail]

.....Note: I'm testing the regulations for the 80% limiter. There is a discernible difference, and may need a slight change in how long each tire is run, so if we go with the change, the length (currently 90 laps) will change based on my testing.

Update: I tested the updated Limiter. With the difference. The regulations would be: 175HP limit and 40 laps minimum for each soft, medium, and hard. This makes a very close race by the numbers. Good racers with good tunes would win every time, but a bad lap or two will cost you the win, probably. I'm updating this change now. (By the way, I checked 50 laps for the minimum tire requirements, and it's too much-without running the full race. If you want to do 50 laps, good luck.)

Thanks for allowing a little more horsepower for the Miata race!

Throwing caution to the wind, I've jumped into my Miata and have started a race. I'm running with 170 HP and I'm only 1 lap plus about 60 seconds behind after my 60 lap run on comfort hard tires!! I almost got lapped twice while on the CH tires! I've got some ground to make up!!

Informational note about the Miata's on comfort hard tires: my Miata handles pretty well on comfort hard tires, and with 170 HP, I'm just as fast as the other Miata's (even the rabbits) in a straight line. However, in the turns, the AI kill me!!! So the roles have been switched from what we are used to!! Crazy!

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[Jubby]

Thanks for allowing a little more horsepower for the Miata race!

Throwing caution to the wind, I've jumped into my Miata and have started a race. I'm running with 170 HP and I'm only 1 lap plus about 60 seconds behind after my 60 lap run on comfort hard tires!! I almost got lapped twice while on the CH tires! I've got some ground to make up!!

Respectfully,
GTsail

Based on our conversation in PM, I think you are right about no HP restriction for the Miata race. The weight will stand, but we'll group results based on HP/PP. I'm also re-tweaking the number of laps to 50 per tire compound.

I apologize to everyone that this has been confusing, but this is the last change. I'm going to institute the 80% Power Limiter across all races. I'm going to finalize the regulations as each race now is able to be won with the given regulations and it has been tested thoroughly. The OP will reflect this shortly.

 

[GTsail]

I'm going to institute the 80% Power Limiter across all races. I'm going to finalize the regulations as each race now is able to be won with the given regulations and it has been tested thoroughly. The OP will reflect this shortly.

Thanks for all the regulation testing!

Hopefully, you can now get back to some actual racing!

GTsail

 

[axletramp]

My first report is really a mini report for the Grand Valley 300 as I failed to win with my chosen car and will not be using it to run the Laguna Seca leg of the challenge - I'll leave much more detailed reports for successful runs. However, I'll place it here as a record of my first attempt at this challenge and, unbelievably, my first ever experience of comfort hard or comfort medium tyres - perhaps it could be filed in a list called 'Bucket of Fail' (Pail of Fail?).

Full of confidence and over ambition due to running these endurances quite intensively over the past few weeks, I decided to go with one of my usual favourites and chose a car I'd used to win the Nurb 4hr, the Spoon S2000 '00. I re-tuned the suspension for the GVS300 (aggressive turn-in to counter the lack of grip) with the following specs:

Car: Spoon S2000 '00
HP: 280
PP: 450
Power Limiter: 95.3%
Weight: 1150Kg
Ballast: 50 Kg
Rigidity Improvement
Titanium Racing Exhaust
Fully Customisable Transmission
Fully Customisable Suspension
Top Speed Setting: 155Mph
Tyres: CH, CM and CS.

I decided to get the worst tyres out of the way first, especially as the AI would be slow for the first couple of laps anyway. So on went the comfort hards (never used them before!) and hit the grid. Flag drops and we're away. I'm just faster than the AI on the run to the first corner but back out early in anticipation of no brakes and grip. Even so I manage to slide through and take a place from the 300ZX in 6th. The rest of the opening lap is spent attempting to stay on the tarmac and hold position. I'm hitting 135 mph on the main straight which is quicker than most of the AI and keeps them away from me - which is good.

By lap 5 I've dropped a couple of places and running in the 2:23.xxx region with only a couple of minor gravelly moments. The main problem I'm having is getting the power down with such a 'peaky' N/A engine. The leading RX-7 is now +22 secs ahead. Hmmm.

On lap 9 I have a crazy tank slapper going through the esses before the first tunnel. I drop down to last place. I finish lap 10 -45 secs down and dropping.

I pit at the end of lap 15 safe in the knowledge that my previous dread of using CH tyres is fully justified! I'm still last and over one minute down on the leader. I decided to break my plan of CH to CM then a fast finish on CS and have the pit crew slap on a set of comfort softs with a plan of 30 fast laps to coincide with the AI's slower laps.

I exit the pits and these tyres feel like slicks from the moment I hit the first turn. Heaven! I quickly set about getting heat into them and start hitting 2:16.xxx's. By lap 17 I've already caught and passed the back markers and gaining on the main pack. Five laps in the 2:15.xxx's and I'm mixing it up with them and by lap 25 I've got the third placed WRX Sti in my sights. Gap to the leader is down to about 1:05 and dropping at 2 secs a lap - not enough for a win, but certainly a podium is on (comfort mediums willing).

At the half way point (lap 30) the AI start to pit and I take 3rd as a consequence. My lap times are still good and as we run up to the leaders pit stops the gap is down to 49 secs. Fastest lap so far is 2:15.231 on lap 24.

First half summary:
Comfort hards do not work with such low HP especially when that engine is so rev-happy. It was only once I was on the CS tyres that I could actually put the power down on the exits allowing me to hit my maximum speed on the straights. Unfortunately the damage had been done during the first stint and it looks unlikely that I'll be able to claw all that time back especially as I'll be taking an extra pit stop as well.

From lap 31 to 45 my lap times consistently drop from 2:15.xxx's to 2:19.xxx's. I manage to just about stay ahead of the WRX STi and catch the Silvia spec-R who has suffered most on his tyres. The RX-7 is long gone 52 secs ahead and lapping consistently in the 2:16.xxx/2:17.xxx's.

I have mixed feelings about pitting on lap 45. Firstly my tyres are suffering and losing grip so need changing and secondly, unfortunately I know I'm going on to CM tyres. Anyway, my pit crew put on the comfort mediums and 5 litres of fuel just to make sure I finish. I exit into 4th behind the Silvia, WRX and leading RX-7. The rest of the pack are a long way back or lapped.

I exit the pit and just hold onto her as I hit the straight. I slide around for the first lap and then hit a rhythm in the 2:21.xxx zone. The Silvia pits on lap 52 and I take 3rd spot. The WRX is now running much faster and there's no way I can catch him. By lap 58 I'm around 1:12 behind the leading RX-7 but only 35 secs behind the WRX. If he pits on the next lap then I might get 2nd, but it will be extremely close!

On lap 59 both the RX-7 and WRX pit but both make it out ahead of me. I cross the line on the last lap and finish 3rd, 42 seconds down on the winning RX-7 and 11 secs down on the WRX.

Finishing time was 2:20:45.732 with a fastest lap of 2:15.231 on lap 24.

Conclusion:
Basically not enough power and suitably humbled by the comfort tyres - CH and CM anyway. I've also never left so much rubber on the track at turn one as I attempted to lose speed and make the apex. It was absolutely covered in black marks! Anyway, back to the drawing board and perhaps I'll not be so ambitious next time. However, I do have a cunning plan to try out...


Edit: OK, that's not so brief...

 

[GTsail]

.....I decided to go with one of my usual favourites and chose a car I'd used to win the Nurb 4hr, the Spoon S2000 '00. I re-tuned the suspension for the GVS300 (aggressive turn-in to counter the lack of grip) with the following specs:

Car: Spoon S2000 '00
HP: 280
PP: 450
Power Limiter: 95.3%
Weight: 1150Kg
Ballast: 50 Kg
Tyres: CH, CM and CS.

I decided to get the worst tyres out of the way first, especially as the AI would be slow for the first couple of laps anyway. So on went the comfort hards (never used them before!) and hit the grid. Flag drops and we're away. I'm just faster than the AI on the run to the first corner but back out early in anticipation of no brakes and grip. Even so I manage to slide through and take a place from the 300ZX in 6th. The rest of the opening lap is spent attempting to stay on the tarmac and hold position. I'm hitting 135 mph on the main straight which is quicker than most of the AI and keeps them away from me - which is good.

Great write-up axletramp!

I notice that you started the race on comfort hards. I recommend this strategy to anyone else that attempts this "Challenge" (even though I didn't for my first attempt).

My reasoning is as follows: The AI are usually the slowest early in the race on their cold tires, plus their first pit stop is usually the longest, so this is when its ok to be slow on the comfort hard tires. Later on in the race, I expect that we will need the better tires to stay with the AI. An added benefit from this tire strategy is that during the race, we get to drive thru the field! This latter benefit isn't necessarily a speed boost, but is something that makes the race more enjoyable!

For my first race with the RUF, I started the race on comfort mediums on purpose to see if I could hang with the AI when my RGT was shod with them. If I wasn't able to hang with the AI from the start, then I was going to abandon the race, and re-start with more power. My reasoning is that if I'm equal in speed to the AI when on the comfort mediums, then the race is winnable. If you can't hang with the AI while on comfort mediums, then I don't think you can win the race (lose time to the AI when on CH, maintain position when on CM, re-gain time on the CS tires that you lost while on the CH tires).

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[axletramp]

Thanks. It wasn't supposed to be that long a report but my minimal notes and memory were better than I anticipated.

I agree about the speed on the comfort mediums. My problem here was that I could only realistically stay with the front runners on comfort softs and was only comparable with the mid field on the comfort mediums. It's best not to talk about the comfort hards! I fact I think I would have won this on comfort softs and one pit stop had this been a straight GVS300 run.

More power is needed here than I initially thought plus a different car/set up to get the power down on the less grippy tyres. Were you making up most of your time through sheer power on the straights? I was hitting about 72 mph through the long tunnel on CS and about 67 mph on CH tyres plus plenty of drifting. How does this compare to your RUF?

 

[Jubby]

In my testing, at GV, the AI is making up time getting into the corner and through the middle, and you need enough power getting out(and the ability to put the power down) to make up any lost time or make passes. Out braking the AI is very tough with all but the CS tires. Warm fresh CM, maybe. Straight line speed will help make up the difference. I really tried to make it so that the HP limit gives you a shot, but if you can't find a way to put the power down, you will suffer. I loved the idea that good driving=a win.

Some of my results to share: On the CH, it seems that if you can charge to the front at the start (if you start with CH) and try and keep your line, you'll lose minimal time. The AI seems the be averaging around 2:19.

When I test, I try all three compounds and fresh tires need to be below: 2:15 CS, 2:19 CM, 2:23CH. Anything off that pace, you'll find it very tough when the tires fall off in the 7-10 laps before you get to the 15-20 lap pit point.

I'm curious to see if anyone can get the CS to go more than 30 laps at Laguna Seca with good results. I'll be sure to put a check in the win column before I try that, though.

 

[GTsail]

Its time for the 3rd Race at Tsukuba:

A little Miata action:

After carefully checking Jubby's race restrictions, I search high and low in my garage for a suitable Miata. After some minor testing, I settle for a relatively new silver Mazda Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04. After some wrenching by my fabled pit crew, my Miata has the following spec's:

Horsepower: 177
Weight: 1020 (stage 1 wgt reduction, then 33kg of ballast)
PP value: 410
Tires: all 3 grades of comfort tires
P. Limiter: 91.8%
No skid

Sitting on the starting line at Tsukuba are the mandatory grid # 1 cars as follows:

1) MX-5 1.8 RS NB '98 (Andre)
2) MX-5 NA '89 (Vinci)
3) Roadster 1800RS NB '00 (Sanger)
4) Eunos Roadster V-Special II NA '93 (Faure)
5) MX-5 1800RS NB '00 (Etienne)
6) MX-5 V-Special II NA '93 (Fenstermacher)
7) GTsail in the Mazda Roadster 1600 NR-A
8) Roadster 1800RS NB '04 (Clark)
9) Roadster 1.8RS NB '98 (Philippe)
10) Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04 (Giles)
11) Eunos Roadster S-Special I NA '95 (Russell)
12) MX-5 J-Limited NA '91 (Lozano)

I decide to start the race on comfort hard tires, so the beginning of the race won't be pretty!

Off the start-line, I accelerate thru the field and take over 4th place in the race going thru turn # one. I reach 2nd place in the race going agressively thru turn # 3. I then pass the 1st place Andre/MX-5 1.8 RS NB '98 going up the long back straight, and end the first lap in 1st place with a 0.4 second lead. (race note: It took me at least 10 attempts before I was able to reach first place during lap # one. Usually I could reach 3rd place by the end of lap # 1, so I would then abandon the race). Also, the 8th place car has a tendency to spin you out when you cross his front bumper during your dive to the apex in turn one. The spin-out will cause you to smack the inside wall.

Its now time to earn my paycheck........

Driving on comfort hard tires takes quite a bit of concentration, even though my Miata Roadster likes the Tsukuba track. For the next four laps I push my Miata like crazy to stay ahead of the other AI. I'm just slightly faster than the AI going down the straights, but the AI kill me in the three major turns. I almost always beat the AI to the turns and then hug the apex like my life depends upon it (which it does!).

By the end of lap # 5, I have the entire field bunched up behind me, but I have a 1.1 second lead over the Vinci/MX-5 NA '89, after an early lap record of 1.13.879.

More apex hugging...

After 10 laps, I have a 0.5 second lead over the Vinci/MX-5 NA '89.

More apex hugging...

After 15 laps, I have a 0.777 second lead over the Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00.

More apex hugging...

After 20 laps, I have a 0.499 second lead over the Sanger/Roadster 1800RS NB '00.

More apex hugging...

After 25 laps, I have a 0.849 second lead over the Clark/Roadster 1800RS NB '04.

On lap # 26, I set a new lap record of 1.13.786.

More apex hugging...

After 30 laps, I have a 0.600 second lead over the Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00, after a new lap record of 1.13.677.

More apex hugging...

After 35 laps, I have a 0.559 second lead over the Sanger/Roadster 1800RS NB '00.

More apex hugging...

After 40 laps, I have a 0.368 second lead over the Sanger/Roadster 1800RS NB '00.

More apex hugging...

After 45 laps, I have a 0.648 second lead over the Sanger/Roadster 1800RS NB '00

More apex hugging...

On lap # 49, I set a new lap record of 1.13.502.

At the end of lap # 50, I dive into the pits from 1st place for a set of comfort medium tires. The entire field drives past because they were all stacked up behind the 2nd place Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00.

The comfort medium tires are a bit cold and slow for the first half of lap # 51, but they sure feel better! By the end of lap # 51, I get the news that I'm in 12th place, some 28 seconds behind the race leader.

On lap # 54, I set a new lap record of 1.11.472, and end the lap 32 seconds behind the race leader.

After 60 laps, I'm still in 12th place, some 35 seconds behind the race leader, after a new lap record of 1.11.202.

On lap # 61, I catch and pass the 11th place Faure/Eunos Roadster V-Special II NA '93.

On lap # 62, I catch and pass the 10th place Andre/MX 1.8RS NB '98.

On lap # 64, I set a new lap record of 1.11.189.

On lap # 65, I catch and pass the 9th place Russell/Eunos Roadster S-Special I NA '95. I end the lap 37.5 seconds behind the race leader.

At the beginning of lap # 67, I catch and pass the 8th place Lozano/Eunos Roadster S-Special I NA '95.

On lap # 68, I catch and pass the 7th place Vinci/MX-5 NA '89.

At the beginning of lap # 70, I catch and pass the 6th place Fenstermacher/MX-5 V-Special II NA '93. I end the lap 39.5 seconds behind the race leader.

After 75 laps, I'm still in 6th place, 39 seconds behind the race leader after a new lap record of 1.10.947.

On lap # 78, I catch and pass the 5th place Philippe/Roadster 1.8RS NB '98.

After 80 laps, I've been able to gain slightly on the race leader, so I'm only 36 seconds behind the race leading Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00 at the end of the lap. The race leader has caught some back-markers, so he may be getting held up slightly.

After 85 laps, I'm still in 5th place, but I'm now only 32 seconds behind the race leading Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00 after a 1.10.957 lap.

After 90 laps, I'm still in 5th place, but now only 29 seconds behind the race leading Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00.

On lap # 92, I catch and pass the 12th place Eunos Roadster V-Special II NA '95 and put him a lap down.

On lap # 93, I catch and pass the 11th place MX-5 1.8 RS NB '98 and put him a lap down.

After 95 laps, I'm still in 5th place, but now only 27 seconds behind the race leading Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00.

On lap # 99, I catch and pass the 10th place Eunos Roadster S-Special I NA '95 and put him a lap down.

When I dive into the pits at the end of lap # 100, the margin to the race leading Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00 is down to 24 seconds. In the pits, I ask my pit crew for some comfort soft tires and take on 30 liters of fuel. While I'm in the pits, the Philippe/Roadster 1.8RS NB '98 drives past and drops me down to 6th place in the race.

At the first checkpoint on lap # 101, I get the news that I've fallen 55 seconds behind the race leading Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00.

On lap # 102, I re-pass the 5th place Philippe/Roadster 1.8RS NB '98. When I get to the end of lap # 102, I pass the 4th place Sanger/Roadster 1800RS NB '00 because he's in the pits for his only stop of the race. I've set a new lap record of 1.10.304 on lap # 102 (fresh CS tires).

At the end of lap # 103, both the 2nd place Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00 and the 3rd place Clark/Roadster 1800RS NB '04 pit, so I drive past and begin lap # 104 in 2nd place!!

After lap # 105, I see that I'm only 32 seconds behind the race leading Giles/Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04 after a new lap record of 1.09.996.

After lap # 110, I'm only 17 seconds behind the race leading Giles/Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04 after a new lap record of 1.09.714.

At the end of lap # 113, the race leading Giles/Roadster 1600 NR-A NB '04 pits, so I drive past and take over the lead of the race as I begin lap # 114 after a new lap record of 1.09.633.

At the first checkpoint on lap # 114, I see that I have an 11 second lead over the 2nd place Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00.

After 120 laps, I have an 18 second lead over the Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00 after a new lap record of 1.08.986.

After 130 laps, I have a 25 second lead over the Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00 after a new lap record of 1.08.690.

After 140 laps, I have a 40 second lead over the Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00.

After 3 hours, and 150 laps, I have a 54 second lead over the Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00.

On lap # 152, I catch and pass the 3rd place Sanger/Roadster 1800RS NB '00 and put him a lap down.

After 155 laps, I have a 60 second lead over the Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00.

On lap # 162, I catch and pass the 2nd place Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00, and put him a lap down. I have now lapped the entire field. Some cars have been lapped multiple times at this point.

After 175 laps, I have a 1 lap and 15 second lead over the Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00 as I continue to pull away.

After 187 laps, I have a 1 lap and 30 second lead over the Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00.

After 200 laps, I cross the Finish line with a 1 lap, plus 40 second lead over the 2nd place Etienne/MX-5 1800RS NB '00, and win the race (I slowed down about 7-8 seconds on the final lap so I wouldn't have to run an extra lap).

Race time was 4 hours, 0 minutes and 2 seconds.

Finish order:
----------------
1) GTsail
2) MX-5 1800RS NB '00 ------ 1 lap plus 40 secs (BL 1.09.395)
3) Roadster 1800RS NB '00 -- 1 lap plus 60 secs (BL 1.09.759)
4) Roadster 1800RS NB '04 -- 2 laps (Best lap 1.09.547)
5) Roadster 1600 NR-A NB --- 2 laps (Best lap 1.09.968)
6) Roadster 1.8RS NB '98 --- 3 laps (Best lap 1.10.730)
7) MX-5 V-special NA '93 --- 4 laps (Best lap 1.11.407)
8) MX-5 J-Limited NA '91 --- 4 laps (Best lap 1.10.975)
9) Eunos Roadster S-Special - 5 laps (Best lap 1.11.148)
10) MX-5 NA '89 ------------- 5 laps (Best lap 1.10.914)
11) Eunos Roadster V-Special - 5 laps (Best lap 1.11.231)
12) MX-5 1.8 RS NB '98 ------ 5 laps (Best lap 1.11.764)

Post race notes:
-----------------
Pretty good race. I highly recommend it if you like driving a Miata. When you finally get on the comfort soft tires, you can make up at least a second every lap. On my good laps, I was gaining 2 seconds a lap towards the end. The faster AI were driving 1 minute and 12 second laps towards the end of the race, while I was generally driving 1 minute and 10 second laps, so significant gains were being made. I kept watching my tires during the last 25 laps of the race, thinking that I might need to get a new set. However, my tires were fine right up to the end, so going 100 laps on CS tires is not a problem. By the end, my tires had lost some grip, but not enough to even be a concern. If you notice, the pole sitting MX-5 1.8RS NB '98 came in last and the 2nd place MX-5 NA '89 came in 10th, some 5 laps back. Its my guess that they are slow enough that you could re-catch them if you let them get away on lap # 1, and only blocked the faster cars from 3rd position (the Roadster 1800RS NB '00) on back. I think the first two cars would be able to put two laps on you, but once you switched to the better tires, you would be able to reel them in (I may try this if I run this a second time).

Enjoy the racing!
GTsail

 

[GTsail]

.....More power is needed here than I initially thought plus a different car/set up to get the power down on the less grippy tyres. [GTsail] were you making up most of your time through sheer power on the straights? I was hitting about 72 mph through the long tunnel on CS and about 67 mph on CH tyres plus plenty of drifting. How does this compare to your RUF?

Yes, I was gaining time on the AI on the straights. My RUF RGT had plenty of power, so once I was thru the corners I could go faster than the AI. Even on comfort hards, once I got hooked up down the straights, I could go faster than the AI. I don't really remember the exact speed thru the tunnel turn after the bridge at the "Valley". About the same speeds that you mention, but I would have to run my RUF again to be sure.

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[axletramp]

@GTsail - that's all three. Well done! 👍 Tsukuba looks the easiest of the three. I only ran this a couple of months ago with a stock '04 on SS tyres and won at a canter.

Now I see where I went wrong with my initial GVS300 run - not enough HP! I'm confident I was getting what I could out of the turns, I just wasn't making up enough time on the fast sections. Laguna Seca, where HP is king, would have shown that up even more.

 

[GTsail]

@GTsail - that's all three. Well done! 👍 Tsukuba looks the easiest of the three. I only ran this a couple of months ago with a stock '04 on SS tyres and won at a canter.

Thanks!

Tsukuba easy? Hmmmm.... It depends upon how much car you bring to the track. There are a number of scenarios:

1) Block everyone for the first 50 laps (expect to be visited by race stewards after the race for a discussion of the lap one incidents).
2) Block everyone for the first 50 laps except for the first two (non-rabbit) cars (less likely to get flagged by the race stewards).
3) Run hard from the start, but don't block any of the cars. Once the rabbits circle the track and come up behind you....block them until lap # 50 (still might get flagged by the race stewards).
4) Run hard from the start, and don't block any of the cars. Let the rabbits past once they circle the track and put you a lap down. Hope you can drive fast enough to get to lap 50 before the rabbits put you two laps down.

The 4th option just requires more horsepower. The problem as always is that the "rabbits" are just a lot faster than the non-rabbits, so in order to beat the rabbits you need a pretty strong car (or a faster driver than me).

5) Start the race on comfort soft tires, run 100 laps and build up a 3 lap lead. Switch to CM tires and maintain a 2 lap lead. Switch to CH tires and block the rabbits to maintain a 1 lap lead. Must have good nerves and plenty of antacid to try this!

A note about my "blocking". My Miata was fast enough so I never had to block the other cars on the straights (or swerve from side to side to keep them behind me). All I was doing was beating the AI to the corners and then hugging the apex like crazy. The AI would bunch up behind me in the turn, and then I would accelerate away once I was thru the turn. A couple of times the AI would go around the outside of me thru the turns, but I had enough speed to beat them to the next corner, so I would just hug the apex again.

Respectfully,
GTsail

 

[Jubby]

A note about my "blocking". My Miata was fast enough so I never had to block the other cars on the straights (or swerve from side to side to keep them behind me). All I was doing was beating the AI to the corners and then hugging the apex like crazy. The AI would bunch up behind me in the turn, and then I would accelerate away once I was thru the turn. A couple of times the AI would go around the outside of me thru the turns, but I had enough speed to beat them to the next corner, so I would just hug the apex again.

Excellent job GTSail! You get the... umm... 💡 Comfort Seal of Relaxation! 👍 ---I know, corny... but worth it.

I've started a spreadsheet on my computer compiling statistics for everyone's race reports. Once we get a few more, I'll find out which statistics are relevant and put them as a leaderboard in the OP. 1-3 entries, a competition does not make.

A quick note on the "blocking" as you describe it... I'd expect nothing less from a real racer. You choose your line and they (AI) have a wheel and an accelerator. You are under no obligation to let them pass. No point in letting them trample over you. Good call!

I'm getting ready to start my own with the new regulations. Trusty Subaru Impreza STi RM. She'll have some pep in her step... WR Blue Mica, of course! We'll see if the AWD can improve grip... testing looks good.