I was curious to see which ordinary cars could be tuned up to the max. to win this dream car championship. I also reduced weight and added wings/spoilers where allowed because I wanted to improve the boring look of some of the standard cars .
( I really would like to be able to add more interesting colours and a dash of decoration. )
I only tested a portion of the cars, as it was starting to take too long -- and I don't like the look of quite a few. And then I decided to include some of the lesser tuned cars as well.
All a bit pointless really !! but maybe it interests someone.
Ommiting GT capable cars (everything from the Gillet race car up) I have listed, in rough order of capability, cars which will win with something to spare, going down to those which will lose most tracks whatever you do. Towards the end I thought to note down the approx Tokyo lap times and have inserted them where I can. ( My results would have been more useful if I was a better driver and if the accelerator had not developed spasms due to potentiometer dirt !! e.g. A retrial of the Honda HSC took it out of marginal so some others may be similar ). The leading A.I. lap time on Tokyo seems to be about 1m.36sec . This time increases by several seconds occasionally for no obvious reason .
The championship has races requiring good cornering and others needing straight line speed as well. Some poorer cars can (just) win all races, others only the cornering tracks, or only the fast. Using medium race tyres as standard, most cars will have trouble on the ( very annoying) Beginners Track with tyre wear. Slightly less so on Opera and Corte D'Azur.
The gear ratio for Sarthe and the Test Track had to be stepped up by approx. third to a half again if the car is marginal.
I am an AVERAGE driver. Some people would win with cars I can't.
I used the older (blue) logitech wheel.
The marginal car driving is a little tense when you have built a slight lead and behind you the more powerful cars start to close ..( they can increase speed in the last laps) and you are running out of NOS.
--------------------
( Remember, cars are max. tuned, lightened, with added wings /spoilers if allowed. On medium racing tyres .. tried hard tyres where noted )
FOR RUNAWAY WINS .........
BMW M3 GTR touring car , Mazda RX 8 touring car , VW Nardo, Audi A4 touring car , Cadillac Cien ? the LM racing cars, Opal Astra touring , --- etc. etc. etc. less than 1.29 on Tokyo
-------------------
EASY........
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (tyres only just last Opera. With so much power, more traction control could be used to reduce wear) 1.31 on tokyo
Mercedes Clk touring car ( good driving ) 1.32 on Tokyo
AMG Mercedes Evolution II
Altezza Touring car ( very stable driving ) 1.32 on Tokyo
Mitsubishi FTO touring car ( bit drifty on corners ? .. Nice in black with gold wheels.) 1.32 on Tokyo
Selby Special 1.33 on Tokyo
Saleen S7 ( didn't try many races May have tyre wear problems. Don't like to drive it. ) 1.32 on Tokyo
--------------------
FAIRLY EASY ( MOSTLY ) .......
Tommy Kaira ZZ II
NSX prototype ( bit 'slippy' on road)
Mazda RX 7 type RS second hand ( not so stable on road .. reducing front downforce with rear maxed helped ) 1.34 on Tokyo
Opera S2000 1.34 on Tokyo
Dodge Viper SRT ( eased up for corners because of weight . Tyres survive Cote D'Azur but not beginners course ) 1.34 on Tokyo
Amuse Carbon R 1.36 ? on Tokyo
Spyker Laviolette ( fast .. but downgraded because handling goes badly if you need hard tyres for some courses) 1.32 on Tokyo
Nissan Skyline GTR '00' ( better handling than many )
Wedsport Celica ( interesting look. Need more striking colour schemes like this) 1.34 on Tokyo
BMW M3 GTR ( rear tyres struggling by end of Opera, but so much power, you could probably use more traction control to cut the wear) 1.34 on Tokyo
Apex Superautobacs MR2 ( not as fast as I thought but good drive.) 1.34 on Tokyo
RSC rally raid car
GT Concept Tokyo motor show ( had to ease for cornering since no added wings allowed ) 1.35 on Tokyo
Zonda C 12 (lacks brakes and poor turning. Much suspension change etc. has only helped a little .. no wing allowed ) 1.35 on Tokyo
Genka Hyper Sylvia 1.35 on Tokyo
Proto Motors Spirra ( rear may bounce around, half downforce on front spoiler, full at rear seems to cure it. Back tyre wear high.) 1.35 on Tokyo
Tuscan Speed 8
Buick Special .. kept at 664 hp. ( I was just curious. What a tail-down tank-like machine! Goes alright though. Wonder how fast it would go down Mulsanne straight at full upgrade) 1.38 ( seems wrong?) on Tokyo
SLR Maclaren .. kept at 680 hp. ( just curious again. Drives well for such a heavy car. Tyres just about gone on cote d'azur. A rocket on sarthe.) 1.34 on Tokyo
Honda HSC (clean looking and rather stylish) 1.35 -1.36 on Tokyo
BP Falken ( nearly marginal. Not good drive .. odd) 1.37 on Tokyo
Jaguar XKR- R (hmm .. not as bad as expected, but heavy tire wear. Competition seemed to have been tuned down . Couldn't be bothered trying it much. May actually need NOS and hard tyres in some races ) 1.36 on Tokyo.
---------------------
MARGINAL CARS (must use NOS to some degree , perhaps also slipstreaming and some cunning and blocking of opposition. Fine tuning of suspension etc. may be critical. ) .............
Ford Falcon ( fast , but despite Hp needed NOS to win Opera and rear tyres gone by end ) 1.33 on Tokyo
RUF 3400S ( drives well despite lack of wing/spoiler. Much better than the other Ruf cars.) 1.36 on Tokyo
ASL Arta Garaiya ( interesting shape ! )
Mazda RX8 type E ( drives very well ) 1.36 on Tokyo
Susuki GSX R4. ( Surprise fun. Kinky looking with wing added. Great on corners. Easy win on some races. Only low hp but (took a lot of re-runs) will win Sarthe if you can get to slipstream behind the fastest car on the last run down mulsanne. Just after half way hit the NOS .. set for duration .. and go for it. Needs just the right gear ratio and settings for a win) 1.34 on Tokyo
Option Stream Z ( heavy tire wear on cote d'azur for example a major problem)
Aston Martin Vanquish (Handles well for heavy car, straight line fast, but front tyre wear is BAD . One compromise is to reduce front spoiler to half . or front hard tyre. Will be staggering/sliding by the end of Opera ...unlikely to win. Harder rear tyres though, almost guarantee a loss as traction seems to reduce as well as handling . )
FPV GT 04 (For the HP this is sad. .. wears tyres badly) 1.37 on Tokyo
Mitsubishi HSR ( Fancy retractable spoilers seem poor .. needs more grip. Wears tyres, bad brakes? .. Probably too heavy then? ) 1.38 on Tokyo
-----------------------
SOME I THOUGHT WOULD BE GOOD , BUT DIDN'T QUITE MAKE IT.. THOUGH THEY CAN WIN ODD RACES WITH FINE TUNING . ..........
HPA Motorsports stage II R3
Opal Speedster Turbo ( won Deep Forest, Elcapitan , even Sarthe, Tokyo once .. but the competition seemed to have been tuned down. On mulsannne straight only needed about 309 kph to catch up whereas it normally takes 320 .. odd. BTW, the non turbo Speedster tuned to max, IS slower by several seconds a lap.)
Mines Lancer
Nissan 350Z GT4 LM ( not enough power even with NOS bursts throughout) 1.37 on Tokyo
Audi TT coupe 3.2 ( surprise lack of 'zoom' since the touring car is very good) 1.40 on Tokyo
Lotus Motor Sports Elise
Clio sport phase 1
Honda Integra R
Subaru Imprezza rally car
Peugot 206 rally
Eclipse (only tried it because I liked the look, but outclassed with front wheel drive and limited hp)
Chrysler crossfire .. ( too little HP, drove well though.)
--------------------------
That's it. I have given up.
There are other cars which will do well. To judge by the mazda RX 7, anything with a basic 270 hp normally, not overweight and rear wheel drive should do it. ( or with similar power/weight ratio ) Front wheel drive cars will have little hope. Maybe one should also try all the tuned and touring cars at the minimum setting .. ie. as they come.. a long process though.
One thing has struck me as odd .
There is a large jump in the difficulty of racing between Dream Car and full GT.
What then, is one to do with the many cars which run away from everything at the Dream Car level, but can't quite ever make it at the GT level?
With some fine tuning You can win the odd GT race with say, a BMW M3 GTR or Play Station Audi A4 touring , Mazda 8 touring car etc. or the various LM models ( Autumn Ring is satisfying as the high powered cars career off the track around you ! .. though I notice I won at slower times than when using a better car) but you won't win much more ... unless you are something special ?!
Basically, there is no championship which is a good but winnable challenge for the top touring cars once tuned up. Seems to me that GT 4 needs a "World Super Tuned Championship." Using many tracks.
Otherwise one has to resort to the arcade racing. Which is alright, and potentially more competitive, perhaps even more realistic regarding power levels?? However, the car is not tuned to your own preference. It is an ommission from the GT side of the game. I imagine part of the problem is that they have to keep the game 100% winnable for a wide range of driving talent, not just the real experts. And it is so satisfying sometimes to use a really upgraded car and leave the opposition in the dust!
Cheers all .. fell free to add to this list (or rewrite a more accurate version ) if interested.
Maybe someone could make a huge list of the RELATIVE performance and merits of EVERY car !!
... perhaps as they come, since it takes a lot of time to go through the 'upgrade, save', 'upgrade, save', business.
Hmmm . You could do it with lap times only on arcade mode.
How many thousand cars are there?
Have fun people.
Glum.
( I really would like to be able to add more interesting colours and a dash of decoration. )
I only tested a portion of the cars, as it was starting to take too long -- and I don't like the look of quite a few. And then I decided to include some of the lesser tuned cars as well.
All a bit pointless really !! but maybe it interests someone.
Ommiting GT capable cars (everything from the Gillet race car up) I have listed, in rough order of capability, cars which will win with something to spare, going down to those which will lose most tracks whatever you do. Towards the end I thought to note down the approx Tokyo lap times and have inserted them where I can. ( My results would have been more useful if I was a better driver and if the accelerator had not developed spasms due to potentiometer dirt !! e.g. A retrial of the Honda HSC took it out of marginal so some others may be similar ). The leading A.I. lap time on Tokyo seems to be about 1m.36sec . This time increases by several seconds occasionally for no obvious reason .
The championship has races requiring good cornering and others needing straight line speed as well. Some poorer cars can (just) win all races, others only the cornering tracks, or only the fast. Using medium race tyres as standard, most cars will have trouble on the ( very annoying) Beginners Track with tyre wear. Slightly less so on Opera and Corte D'Azur.
The gear ratio for Sarthe and the Test Track had to be stepped up by approx. third to a half again if the car is marginal.
I am an AVERAGE driver. Some people would win with cars I can't.
I used the older (blue) logitech wheel.
The marginal car driving is a little tense when you have built a slight lead and behind you the more powerful cars start to close ..( they can increase speed in the last laps) and you are running out of NOS.
--------------------
( Remember, cars are max. tuned, lightened, with added wings /spoilers if allowed. On medium racing tyres .. tried hard tyres where noted )
FOR RUNAWAY WINS .........
BMW M3 GTR touring car , Mazda RX 8 touring car , VW Nardo, Audi A4 touring car , Cadillac Cien ? the LM racing cars, Opal Astra touring , --- etc. etc. etc. less than 1.29 on Tokyo
-------------------
EASY........
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (tyres only just last Opera. With so much power, more traction control could be used to reduce wear) 1.31 on tokyo
Mercedes Clk touring car ( good driving ) 1.32 on Tokyo
AMG Mercedes Evolution II
Altezza Touring car ( very stable driving ) 1.32 on Tokyo
Mitsubishi FTO touring car ( bit drifty on corners ? .. Nice in black with gold wheels.) 1.32 on Tokyo
Selby Special 1.33 on Tokyo
Saleen S7 ( didn't try many races May have tyre wear problems. Don't like to drive it. ) 1.32 on Tokyo
--------------------
FAIRLY EASY ( MOSTLY ) .......
Tommy Kaira ZZ II
NSX prototype ( bit 'slippy' on road)
Mazda RX 7 type RS second hand ( not so stable on road .. reducing front downforce with rear maxed helped ) 1.34 on Tokyo
Opera S2000 1.34 on Tokyo
Dodge Viper SRT ( eased up for corners because of weight . Tyres survive Cote D'Azur but not beginners course ) 1.34 on Tokyo
Amuse Carbon R 1.36 ? on Tokyo
Spyker Laviolette ( fast .. but downgraded because handling goes badly if you need hard tyres for some courses) 1.32 on Tokyo
Nissan Skyline GTR '00' ( better handling than many )
Wedsport Celica ( interesting look. Need more striking colour schemes like this) 1.34 on Tokyo
BMW M3 GTR ( rear tyres struggling by end of Opera, but so much power, you could probably use more traction control to cut the wear) 1.34 on Tokyo
Apex Superautobacs MR2 ( not as fast as I thought but good drive.) 1.34 on Tokyo
RSC rally raid car
GT Concept Tokyo motor show ( had to ease for cornering since no added wings allowed ) 1.35 on Tokyo
Zonda C 12 (lacks brakes and poor turning. Much suspension change etc. has only helped a little .. no wing allowed ) 1.35 on Tokyo
Genka Hyper Sylvia 1.35 on Tokyo
Proto Motors Spirra ( rear may bounce around, half downforce on front spoiler, full at rear seems to cure it. Back tyre wear high.) 1.35 on Tokyo
Tuscan Speed 8
Buick Special .. kept at 664 hp. ( I was just curious. What a tail-down tank-like machine! Goes alright though. Wonder how fast it would go down Mulsanne straight at full upgrade) 1.38 ( seems wrong?) on Tokyo
SLR Maclaren .. kept at 680 hp. ( just curious again. Drives well for such a heavy car. Tyres just about gone on cote d'azur. A rocket on sarthe.) 1.34 on Tokyo
Honda HSC (clean looking and rather stylish) 1.35 -1.36 on Tokyo
BP Falken ( nearly marginal. Not good drive .. odd) 1.37 on Tokyo
Jaguar XKR- R (hmm .. not as bad as expected, but heavy tire wear. Competition seemed to have been tuned down . Couldn't be bothered trying it much. May actually need NOS and hard tyres in some races ) 1.36 on Tokyo.
---------------------
MARGINAL CARS (must use NOS to some degree , perhaps also slipstreaming and some cunning and blocking of opposition. Fine tuning of suspension etc. may be critical. ) .............
Ford Falcon ( fast , but despite Hp needed NOS to win Opera and rear tyres gone by end ) 1.33 on Tokyo
RUF 3400S ( drives well despite lack of wing/spoiler. Much better than the other Ruf cars.) 1.36 on Tokyo
ASL Arta Garaiya ( interesting shape ! )
Mazda RX8 type E ( drives very well ) 1.36 on Tokyo
Susuki GSX R4. ( Surprise fun. Kinky looking with wing added. Great on corners. Easy win on some races. Only low hp but (took a lot of re-runs) will win Sarthe if you can get to slipstream behind the fastest car on the last run down mulsanne. Just after half way hit the NOS .. set for duration .. and go for it. Needs just the right gear ratio and settings for a win) 1.34 on Tokyo
Option Stream Z ( heavy tire wear on cote d'azur for example a major problem)
Aston Martin Vanquish (Handles well for heavy car, straight line fast, but front tyre wear is BAD . One compromise is to reduce front spoiler to half . or front hard tyre. Will be staggering/sliding by the end of Opera ...unlikely to win. Harder rear tyres though, almost guarantee a loss as traction seems to reduce as well as handling . )
FPV GT 04 (For the HP this is sad. .. wears tyres badly) 1.37 on Tokyo
Mitsubishi HSR ( Fancy retractable spoilers seem poor .. needs more grip. Wears tyres, bad brakes? .. Probably too heavy then? ) 1.38 on Tokyo
-----------------------
SOME I THOUGHT WOULD BE GOOD , BUT DIDN'T QUITE MAKE IT.. THOUGH THEY CAN WIN ODD RACES WITH FINE TUNING . ..........
HPA Motorsports stage II R3
Opal Speedster Turbo ( won Deep Forest, Elcapitan , even Sarthe, Tokyo once .. but the competition seemed to have been tuned down. On mulsannne straight only needed about 309 kph to catch up whereas it normally takes 320 .. odd. BTW, the non turbo Speedster tuned to max, IS slower by several seconds a lap.)
Mines Lancer
Nissan 350Z GT4 LM ( not enough power even with NOS bursts throughout) 1.37 on Tokyo
Audi TT coupe 3.2 ( surprise lack of 'zoom' since the touring car is very good) 1.40 on Tokyo
Lotus Motor Sports Elise
Clio sport phase 1
Honda Integra R
Subaru Imprezza rally car
Peugot 206 rally
Eclipse (only tried it because I liked the look, but outclassed with front wheel drive and limited hp)
Chrysler crossfire .. ( too little HP, drove well though.)
--------------------------
That's it. I have given up.
There are other cars which will do well. To judge by the mazda RX 7, anything with a basic 270 hp normally, not overweight and rear wheel drive should do it. ( or with similar power/weight ratio ) Front wheel drive cars will have little hope. Maybe one should also try all the tuned and touring cars at the minimum setting .. ie. as they come.. a long process though.
One thing has struck me as odd .
There is a large jump in the difficulty of racing between Dream Car and full GT.
What then, is one to do with the many cars which run away from everything at the Dream Car level, but can't quite ever make it at the GT level?
With some fine tuning You can win the odd GT race with say, a BMW M3 GTR or Play Station Audi A4 touring , Mazda 8 touring car etc. or the various LM models ( Autumn Ring is satisfying as the high powered cars career off the track around you ! .. though I notice I won at slower times than when using a better car) but you won't win much more ... unless you are something special ?!
Basically, there is no championship which is a good but winnable challenge for the top touring cars once tuned up. Seems to me that GT 4 needs a "World Super Tuned Championship." Using many tracks.
Otherwise one has to resort to the arcade racing. Which is alright, and potentially more competitive, perhaps even more realistic regarding power levels?? However, the car is not tuned to your own preference. It is an ommission from the GT side of the game. I imagine part of the problem is that they have to keep the game 100% winnable for a wide range of driving talent, not just the real experts. And it is so satisfying sometimes to use a really upgraded car and leave the opposition in the dust!
Cheers all .. fell free to add to this list (or rewrite a more accurate version ) if interested.
Maybe someone could make a huge list of the RELATIVE performance and merits of EVERY car !!
... perhaps as they come, since it takes a lot of time to go through the 'upgrade, save', 'upgrade, save', business.
Hmmm . You could do it with lap times only on arcade mode.
How many thousand cars are there?
Have fun people.
Glum.
