Competitive Racing License

[zr1chris]

It's been suggested they should have an option to ghost the first corners in public lobbies and then dock points and time penalties for virtual crashes. Once it opens out there's usually a bit more decorum. Usually...

That's an interesting idea. They could even do the first sector. They would have to clearly mark where the ghosting ends though so drivers could be prepared.

 

[ojgt]

Ghosting is really a bad idea. Start and the first corners are and should be the most exciting part of the race. With ghost cars its just lame and has nothing to do with real racing.. Sure it sucks to get rammed into in the beginning of the race but so far I have had pretty decent race starts as long as I stay away from U rated lobbies.

 

[Kitten]

Finally climbing up the ranks

 

[mattikake]

Here's an issue I suspect wasn't considered.

We all started out as a U. It was pretty easy to get above this because even though everyone was a U probably half the people were clean drivers. However, since being disconnected 3 times in a row my E rating dropped to a U. Now given most clean drivers are well above a U, this means the real monkies are still sat with a U rating.

As you can guess, it's been a real nightmare trying to get myself back up to an F rating. Every race was a demolition derby. You try and stay out of trouble but I was getting frequent race director warnings for being punted up the back and T-boned. God knows how that is my fault (motor insurance companies would be having a field day with that one). I was going to get that in evidence for a vid in a Porsche GT3 race but sadly I ran out of space to record the race. I got 3 race director warnings in 1 lap for being punted up the back. It took half a day to get back to F. Horrible experience but at least I can hide in F races now.

I pity people who get into this late where the filtering system will be in full flow to work against progress. Private races may be their only option.

 

[Animera]

@IanBell, I really think SMS need to have a look at reducing the disconnect penalty.

In league races I've had 2 occasions where some members have had issues at the start of the race and we've made the decision to re-create the lobby to accomodate them, meaning all members got a penalty.
We're considering running league races with the licence system turned off.

Alternatively, give us a 'Restart Race' option like AC has, so we don't all have to leave the lobby to start a race over when there have been issues at the start of the race.

 

[twitcher]

Is it? Everyone will have a moment when exploring the limits. I've also spun standing on the brakes avoiding a collision. So really I was probably better off ploughing into them and maybe gaining a place in the process.

GT Sport lets you know sector by sector what is happening with your SR.

I hoped the SR was only dependent on actually making contact with other cars.

It’s everything, contact, spinouts, if you cut the track, etc. We don’t know how much each action changes it by though

^ correct. I think the Safety Rating monitors at least a dozen behaviors. Hitting other players is only 1 of those.

I think the race director warnings for doing stuff like spinning, or going over track limits, in Practice and Quali sessions needs to be looked at.

That's what a practice session is for, exploring the limits. Schumacher was infamous for this, constantly spinning and going off track in practice, to know exactly where the limit was. Testing the limits like this shouldn't have a negative impact on safety rating. Same for quali.

Contact, in any session, I agree with. But spins, or crossing the lines, when solo in practice or quali is unnecessary and unrealistic.

 

[Pubs16]

I think the race director warnings for doing stuff like spinning, or going over track limits, in Practice and Quali sessions needs to be looked at.

That's what a practice session is for, exploring the limits. Schumacher was infamous for this, constantly spinning and going off track in practice, to know exactly where the limit was. Testing the limits like this shouldn't have a negative impact on safety rating. Same for quali.

Contact, in any session, I agree with. But spins, or crossing the lines, when solo in practice or quali is unnecessary and unrealistic.

I disagree with Quali, practice maybe... but track limits in Quali can’t work people will just abuse it.

Not every spin I’ve found results in driving standards warning, I’m still unsure what does or doesn’t trigger it though.

Also, none of that apart from spins and contact affects your safety, track limits affects your skill I believe, but perhaps not in Quali because skill is only a result of racing.

 

[twitcher]

I disagree with Quali, practice maybe... but track limits in Quali can’t work people will just abuse it.

Not every spin I’ve found results in driving standards warning, I’m still unsure what does or doesn’t trigger it though.

Also, none of that apart from spins and contact affects your safety, track limits affects your skill I believe, but perhaps not in Quali because skill is only a result of racing.

You can discount the lap if someone abuses track limits in quali, but not have it impact the safety rating.

 

[Pubs16]

You can discount the lap if someone abuses track limits in quali, but not have it impact the safety rating.

I don’t think it does in prac/quali though?

 

[twitcher]

I don’t think it does in prac/quali though?

That's what people are saying though. When you spin in practice or quali and get a warning from the race director, it negatively impacts your safety rating.

 

[Pubs16]

That's what people are saying though. When you spin in practice or quali and get a warning from the race director, it negatively impacts your safety rating.

I’m sure I read somewhere that it doesn’t affect it, but it’s deep within.
How do they know it’s not the race affecting it and not Quali?

Would have to make a new licence and test in Quali only to see if it makes any difference.

For now, I agree you need to test the limits but a spin is still considered driving standards... what if you spin into someone in quali?

 

[TommySalami]

I’m sure I read somewhere that it doesn’t affect it, but it’s deep within.
How do they know it’s not the race affecting it and not Quali?

Would have to make a new licence and test in Quali only to see if it makes any difference.

For now, I agree you need to test the limits but a spin is still considered driving standards... what if you spin into someone in quali?

Ideally it wouldn't affect practice, and ideally quali would be done alone but would be affected. I get held up in quali all the time by slow cars

 

[R9NALD9]

I still want some clarity on what affects the license to increase.

Finally got my pro license in my 67th race...when the race ended it brought my total to 60 completed races.

What's funny is the trophy ('no longer a rookie') triggered just after the race start before we reached turn 1 at Red Bull Ring. I've got no idea what criteria is need to improve your license and really wish American or Ian Bell can clarify. Don't know what the secrecy is about.

Also did a 7 lap race at Monza last night and after completing it, it wasn't recorded in my profile.

 

[twitcher]

I hate this license crap.

I've put so much effort into grinding my way back to 1500. I pick the lobbies carefully, which has severely limited the number of laps I've turned. I race like a scared cat, doing whatever I can to stay away from everyone, as opposed to actually racing people hard. That said, I usually finish top 5 (76 too 5, 49 podium, 20 wins, in 129 finishes)

Even with a win or podium against a nearly full grid, the largest skill point increase I've seen is 5. My card looks like this.

1407, 1408, 1412, 1417, 1420, 1415, 1418, 1420, 1385!

That drop is from one single disconnect on the first lap of a race against 7 other people. This is beyond ridiculous. I really hate to cry "it's not fair", but come on, how the hell is that fair??

Just to note, the other 5 point decrease from 1420-1415 was because I got caught in someone else T1 mess, smashed the front, and overheated getting back to the pits. I retired, watched the race for 20 minutes, and lost 5 skill points. Not the end of the world, but not an enjoyable use of my time.

The disconnect penalty needs serious adjustment. Hell, it shouldn't even be a penalty, period.

 

[twitcher]

Edit: double post, my bad

 

[SGETI]

How many of you race in a league?
How many of you have started a race only find out one of your close friends gets disc o, or glitches out of the room?
I want to race with my friends, so the remaining friends agree to start a new room.
guess what happens?
We all lose points so we can include our buddies and race as friends.

The points take a back seat to my friends when it comes to racing.
I will always take a hit on points so I can race with my friends.
With this thinking, I will always be chasing points.

The points really do not mean that much given all the issues.
The letter of driving skill appears to reflect who is clean and who enjoys a good ole demolition derby.
So if your an A1200 or an A1600, I read this as a clean racer.
So if your an U 1200 or an U 1500, I read this to be a racer who maybe a little careless or needs to work on his driving skills.

This is the system we have been given, make it work for you.
Is it perfect ? No. Will it ever be perfect ? No.
Is it a start to weed out the drivers who take out half the field in the first turn? Yes.


I like the game. I like racing with my friends. I like the laughter. I like the competition.

 

[R9NALD9]

I can honestly say that the general quality of open lobbies have definitely improved. Sure you still have your rammers here and there but as I thought since GT Sport's demo dropped most casuals have moved on to the latest 'it' game or just stopped playing Pcars2 altogether. Have been getting some great racers and can vouch for Mr Tree...great guy to race with.

Still wish I knew what criteria is needed for licenses and personally I really don't like the fact that I have to grind to get these. The only thing it causes is for me to jump into short races although longer races are much more fun. Prioritizing quantity instead of quality...it is what it is though.

Had a crap race last night though where I joined a guy's lobby...just me and him at Imola. Didn't see he switched off any type of penalty and this guy literally just when straight flat out through every chicane with not penalty. I finished the race as I didn't want to get hit by the disconnect penalty but was probably the race I was the happiest to finish and get behind me.

Anyways, really enjoying the online racing at this stage since the cleaner more serious racers are more frequent than they were right after launch.

 

[Mr Tree]

Maybe we need to make a little 'club'/'team' I'm.starting to have a few names in the friendslist

 

[mattikake]

Like I said, disconnects my not be the players fault, deliberately exiting the session is. This is incredibly easy to trap in the game code when someone selects an option, but the only explanation that it's not, is devs simply didn't think about it. Like many features, they clearly didn't test real world scenarios and are illiterate to the reality of the average player for causes of disconnects.

Of course the major insult is the game crashing you out (thru at least 8 separate bugs that I know, so far), then penalizing YOU for the game failing!

For these reasons I fully expect the license system to change with future patches because no dev could be that stupid, ignorant and arrogant.

Right?

On the upside, having a higher letter licence with a really low number should mean you'll get loads of invites because you'll appear safe and easy to beat... That will make you very popular!

 

[R9NALD9]

I get their side of the coin though...nothing stops me from just pulling the LAN cable from my PS4 for an 'accidental' disconnect.

 

[RomKnight]

Like IRL, AT ALL TIMES, the rules are to be applied at a race track. From FP to race it's all the same in every detail.

Just because it's practice or quali it doesn't mean you can behave like an idiot. Pay attention to those cold tyres, push gradually and you'll spin less (hey, again, just like IRL).

 

[Mr Tree]

Like I said, disconnects my not be the players fault, deliberately exiting the session is. This is incredibly easy to trap in the game code when someone selects an option, but the only explanation that it's not, is devs simply didn't think about it. Like many features, they clearly didn't test real world scenarios and are illiterate to the reality of the average player for causes of disconnects.

Of course the major insult is the game crashing you out (thru at least 8 separate bugs that I know, so far), then penalizing YOU for the game failing!

For these reasons I fully expect the license system to change with future patches because no dev could be that stupid, ignorant and arrogant.

Right?

On the upside, having a higher letter licence with a really low number should mean you'll get loads of invites because you'll appear safe and easy to beat... That will make you very popular!

I agree that shoddy netcode is making this unfair but trust me you'd be suprised by the amouny of people who would pull out the LAN-cable to 'accidentally' disconnect.

This design descision is by no means stupid, on the contrary. And you calling said design stupid shows you lack of experience with online play with elo-systems.

 

[mattikake]

Bad players will always eventually form a bad rating over time, regardless of rage quitting anyway - take a look at other MMO's with their rating systems that don't penalise for disconnects. Pulling the plug to bypass a bad rating is far less an issue than fair players being penalised simply for trying to play. You should never penalise ALL the innocent majority, just to get a FEW of the guilty minority, especially when natural balancing would happen over time anyway.

No what am I saying? Governments have been working like this for centuries! lol

I didn't say the design was bad (just needs 1 tweak), but the execution is. The current functionality of the game cannot support the design effectively. You know this due to the number of people complaining about it. It has also clearly not properly tested outside of a controlled environment like a studio. As I said, real-world illiterate.

The point of the licence system is to reward good players but at moment it's also doing the opposite. Not because of the licence system, per se, but because of the rest of the game it is attached to.

It can be fixed easily with a tweak or leave it as it is and wait months or years before PC2 becomes stable enough to support the fair play it is trying to promote.

 

[RomKnight]

netcode what?

as soon I stopped playing on lobbies where there's at least ON red, I stopped having issues. Then again, I've played door to door with someone with 300ms.

As long as connections are stable it's OK. It's when people start using wi-fi (not mention sharing the net with kids on YT ) that the problems start to arise.

 

[Mr Tree]

Bad players will always eventually form a bad rating over time, regardless of rage quitting anyway - take a look at other MMO's with their rating systems that don't penalise for disconnects. Pulling the plug to bypass a bad rating is far less an issue than fair players being penalised simply for trying to play. You should never penalise ALL the innocent majority, just to get a FEW of the guilty minority, especially when natural balancing would happen over time anyway.

No what am I saying? Governments have been working like this for centuries! lol

I didn't say the design was bad (just needs 1 tweak), but the execution is. The current functionality of the game cannot support the design effectively. You know this due to the number of people complaining about it. It has also clearly not properly tested outside of a controlled environment like a studio. As I said, real-world illiterate.

The point of the licence system is to reward good players but at moment it's also doing the opposite. Not because of the licence system, per se, but because of the rest of the game it is attached to.

It can be fixed easily with a tweak or leave it as it is and wait months or years before PC2 becomes stable enough to support the fair play it is trying to promote.

I understand that's how games are run but you're forgetting something this systel tries. This DC-penalty is not to make non fast playerd drop... It's to force people to stay until race end...

In that regard if you just follow the 'rules' there are no issues why should they remove said functionality?

Also if you implement the system.as you say some people.will.cheat the system by 'accidentally' disconnecting when they have a bad race, these players would never drop in rating...

Now what I did agree with is that netstability should be improved...

netcode what?

as soon I stopped playing on lobbies where there's at least ON red, I stopped having issues. Then again, I've played door to door with someone with 300ms.

As long as connections are stable it's OK. It's when people start using wi-fi (not mention sharing the net with kids on YT ) that the problems start to arise.

I agree defenitly on the later part. Allbeight it beeing friends at my place...
Then again I stand by the netcode 'argument' I've played dota2 on a connection that didn't even have enough bandwith to stream a youtube video so I assume it's possible. (People with more knowledge correct me if I'm wrong please)

An other issue that could cause the less then perfect netstability could be the ps-network as that's not perfect either

Also no the netcode is NOT ****. I believe it needs a few tweaks but I've seen worse games at launch.

 

[twitcher]

Like I said, disconnects my not be the players fault, deliberately exiting the session is. This is incredibly easy to trap in the game code when someone selects an option, but the only explanation that it's not, is devs simply didn't think about it. Like many features, they clearly didn't test real world scenarios and are illiterate to the reality of the average player for causes of disconnects.

Of course the major insult is the game crashing you out (thru at least 8 separate bugs that I know, so far), then penalizing YOU for the game failing!

For these reasons I fully expect the license system to change with future patches because no dev could be that stupid, ignorant and arrogant.

Right?

On the upside, having a higher letter licence with a really low number should mean you'll get loads of invites because you'll appear safe and easy to beat... That will make you very popular!

Illiterate to the real world is a perfect way to describe it.

And just so people don't get it twisted, I don't care about the skill rating in terms of bragging rights, or anything like that. I only care about it because it's access to lobbies.

I work my ass off all day, and just want to do some racing when I get home. I'm already completely at the mercy of the comminity, so I'm basically stuck doing GT3. On top of that, the number rooms that I can select from goes down as my rating goes down. I already can't connect to lobbies with more than 10 people, and now it's going to take me weeks just to get back to 1400.

Oh, that's right, I tried another lobby last night, DC'd again, so now I'm down to 1353.

I spent all God damn day yesterday dicking around with tire pressures and temps. When I finally got it dialled, I went online, discod twice, and lost 67 points.

Somebody mentioned quality over quantity - right now, I get neither. The only place I can find quality or quantity is in PCARS1.

I'm actually going to do a study this week. Spend an evening playing both PCARS 1, and PCARS 2, and see in which game am I able to turn more racing laps in an evening.

I agree that shoddy netcode is making this unfair but trust me you'd be suprised by the amouny of people who would pull out the LAN-cable to 'accidentally' disconnect.

This design descision is by no means stupid, on the contrary. And you calling said design stupid shows you lack of experience with online play with elo-systems.

Even if they do pull the cable, so what???????? For all you people who claim to not care about the rating, you sure are keen to keep people in your lobby even if they don't want to be there. Explain how the hell someone leaving has a negative impact on you?

Like IRL, AT ALL TIMES, the rules are to be applied at a race track. From FP to race it's all the same in every detail.

Just because it's practice or quali it doesn't mean you can behave like an idiot. Pay attention to those cold tyres, push gradually and you'll spin less (hey, again, just like IRL).

Right...so when a driver spins in a practice session, they get points put on their super license? Doesn't work like that IRL, and it's stupid in the game.

 

[FuriousDemon]

Disconnect penalty will be looked at (reduced) by SMS. What I think needs to happen is make disconnect = finishing last in the race. This way there is still an incentive to stay, but the penalty will be less harsh. Coming in last is already penalty enough I would think.

 

[twitcher]

Disconnect penalty will be looked at (reduced) by SMS. What I think needs to happen is make disconnect = finishing last in the race. This way there is still an incentive to stay, but the penalty will be less harsh. Coming in last is already penalty enough I would think.

I sure hope so.

Disconnect having a penalty equal to finishing last, that I could live with. I've had a few races that I retired from, lost all of 5 points for them iirc.

Yesterday, I entered a GT3 lobby at RBR. 30 min quali, 30 min race. I passed time during quali, race starts, I go into T1 cautiously, get rammed, hit he guy in front of me, and get 32% frontal damage. I try to nurse it back to the pits, but the engine overheats and blows. I retired to the pit box, and then sat there for 25min waiting for the race to end.

I play online to race. Not to quali, not to practice, to race. I sit through quali sessions because usually there is no option otherwise, if I couldn't skip them, I would. This lobby ended up being a waste of nearly an hour of my gaming time. For that entire hour, I didn't have any fun, and spent the whole time thinking about what I'd rather be doing - racing.

To anyone who supports this rediculous disco penalty, in my race yesterday, how did me sitting in the pits for 1/2 an hour enhance the experience of the 6 people left on track?

 

[FuriousDemon]

I sure hope so.

Disconnect having a penalty equal to finishing last, that I could live with. I've had a few races that I retired from, lost all of 5 points for them iirc.

Yesterday, I entered a GT3 lobby at RBR. 30 min quali, 30 min race. I passed time during quali, race starts, I go into T1 cautiously, get rammed, hit he guy in front of me, and get 32% frontal damage. I try to nurse it back to the pits, but the engine overheats and blows. I retired to the pit box, and then sat there for 25min waiting for the race to end.

I play online to race. Not to quali, not to practice, to race. I sit through quali sessions because usually there is no option otherwise, if I couldn't skip them, I would. This lobby ended up being a waste of nearly an hour of my gaming time. For that entire hour, I didn't have any fun, and spent the whole time thinking about what I'd rather be doing - racing.

To anyone who supports this rediculous disco penalty, in my race yesterday, how did me sitting in the pits for 1/2 an hour enhance the experience of the 6 people left on track?

I agree with this point completely. At the very least, remove disconnect penalty for people who have already retired to pits. Like I said, finishing last is already bad enough and their race has been ruined.

 

[rono_thomas]

I play online to race. Not to quali, not to practice, to race. I sit through quali sessions because usually there is no option otherwise, if I couldn't skip them, I would. This lobby ended up being a waste of nearly an hour of my gaming time. For that entire hour, I didn't have any fun, and spent the whole time thinking about what I'd rather be doing - racing.

Then join a lobby that goes straight to race. Or create your own.

To anyone who supports this rediculous disco penalty, in my race yesterday, how did me sitting in the pits for 1/2 an hour enhance the experience of the 6 people left on track?

It doesn’t enhance the experience, this lobby seems like it was set up more realistic than most, and it seems like it was a longer race.

It’s common that a longer race on previous racing sims would have the last person quit and then create a domino effect on others quitting, this is not fun for those that are left, it lacks a sense of accomplishment.

Support of the disco penalty are for more than just one reason it enhances the experience by having more finish a race and also the disco penalty is to stop people preventing pulling the internet connection.

Your argument works because of all the unintentional disco’s that are happening. If this issue was reduced to a zero would still want it removed?

I still think the loss needs to be greater than last but not as severe as it is.

But as the game knows that you retired as a mechanical it should not further penalise you for exiting lobby if you have already retired to pits. This is something that most definitely can be coded.