Compulsory Licence in Gran Turismo 6

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7,197
Exorcet
OE Exorcet
You're exagerating a bit, I think... Like some of you been doing in the last years on GTPlanet, regarding GT in general. A term that it's used in other forum: "a ton of salt" in these posts... You can improve something without having to kill it totally.

I'm not. If someone's argument is "because tradition" then they agree with everything I said. If they don't agree, then they aren't arguing "because tradition" whether they realize it or not.
 
4,409
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diegorborges
Making them optional is the improvement.

Not IMHO. Actually, making them optional in GT5, together with the XP system, made it worse for me.

I agree that they can be more envolving, more educational and diverse, not everytime pre-programmed to the same situations. This, I agree that would be an improvement. And I agree with Johnny in the point that they could offer a better rewarding experience and prizes for those that are experienced enough.
 

MatskiMonk

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BMaking them optional is the improvement.

Making a part of game progression structure optional, makes them pointless, to the detriment of the off-line game.

But, I'm getting the idea that the people who don't want test integral to the game are those that are only focused on the online side of the game (or the off-line side only to further their options on-line).

Whilst I've got no problems with PD building in lots of online functionality, to start stripping back the core of the game, which is the gaming experience I'll be spending my money for, not the online one, I disagree with.

But, then I think I'll always spend more of my GT playing time not racing the AI, or Real People, but the clock.
 
39,080
If you need to force people to do them to make them worth doing (rather than them being worthwhile on their own merit because they are fun or because they actually teach you something or whatever) they don't have much of a point to begin with. If you want to do them do them. They would still be there.
 
7,197
Exorcet
OE Exorcet
Not IMHO. Actually, making them optional in GT5, together with the XP system, made it worse for me.

I agree that they can be more envolving, more educational and diverse, not everytime pre-programmed to the same situations. This, I agree that would be an improvement. And I agree with Johnny in the point that they could offer a better rewarding experience and prizes for those that are experienced enough.

It didn't change anything for you. Because you were able to play GT5 exactly the same as you did GT4. The XP system has nothing to do with anything. This is about licenses, and they were there in GT5 just as available to you as in GT4. All you had to do was complete the licenses before you went racing.

Making them optional was the improvement because as far as you were concerned, nothing changed. As far as some others were concerned, wasting time was less of a mandatory GT requirement.

Making a part of game progression structure optional, makes them pointless, to the detriment of the off-line game.
How would they become pointless? GT5 was basically GT4 with regard to licenses. The only difference was that there wasn't a license level associated with races.

Whilst I've got no problems with PD building in lots of online functionality, to start stripping back the core of the game, which is the gaming experience I'll be spending my money for, not the online one, I disagree with.
Stripping would imply taking something away. And as far as the core of the game goes, that varies from person to person.
 

MatskiMonk

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If you need to force people to do them to make them worth doing (rather than them being worthwhile on their own merit because they are fun or because they actually teach you something or whatever) they don't have much of a point to begin with.

Why not?

How would they become pointless? GT5 was basically GT4 with regard to licenses. The only difference was that there wasn't a license level associated with races.

Well, with GT4 I gained the licenses by playing Prologue, and GT5 wasn't that enjoyable to progress through at all, so I can't really comment any further on that, (it didn't help that at level 38 A-spec I had to format my PS3)

Stripping would imply taking something away. And as far as the core of the game goes, that varies from person to person.

Demoting parts of the game that have been there since the beginning does feel like something is being taken away from it's core.
 
7,197
Exorcet
OE Exorcet
But what is being demoted? If PD went back and remade GT4 with optional licenses, it would be the same game.
 

MatskiMonk

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But what is being demoted? If PD went back and remade GT4 with optional licenses, it would be the same game.

I like having stuff to do in a game. Making everything optional (I realise not everything is optional but again I ask why you would draw the line where you do) devalues the accomplishment felt in playing the game in my opinion...

For me the replay value in GT is hot-lapping, so it could be suggested that I'd be happy with access to all the cars and all the tracks right off the bat.. For free of course... And then I'd be happy, but that's not the case I still like to be able to enjoy the game for what it is, as a standalone start to finish experience. Making elements if that optional devalues them in my opinion.
 
7,197
Exorcet
OE Exorcet
I like having stuff to do in a game. Making everything optional (I realise not everything is optional but again I ask why you would draw the line where you do) devalues the accomplishment felt in playing the game in my opinion...
But they are still there to do. You'd boot up GT4 and the licenses would be there with empty boxes for the trophies. They'd just be optional. In fact, buying the game itself is optional, but that doesn't stop you. Why not?

And where am I drawing a line?

For me the replay value in GT is hot-lapping, so it could be suggested that I'd be happy with access to all the cars and all the tracks right off the bat.. For free of course... And then I'd be happy, but that's not the case I still like to be able to enjoy the game for what it is, as a standalone start to finish experience. Making elements if that optional devalues them in my opinion.

But it's not clear why they are devalued when nothing has changed. You'd think people would do things because they enjoy them, but it seems every time this discussion comes up tons of people answer with no.

In anycase, if elements must be mandatory for you to enjoy, then there could always be a traditional GT Mode and a free mode, with the latter having all the content of the former with no strings attached.
 
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I also have the opinion that licences should stay in one form or another, and had mostly the same idea as a poster a few pages back:

Say you have about 4 licences (B for stock and modestly tuned cars, A for real racing cars, S for LMP & Formula cars and R for rally)
Each of these licenses would logically give you access to events with those types of cars.
Passing the license can be done by simply passing a single full-lap time trial that fits the license (say Tsukuba in an MX5 for B, and Spa in an F1 car for S). Maybe 2 if you want to throw a wet/night situation in there for the later ones.

The player can choose to take on this license test immediately, or take some lessons first. These lessons should be a bit more interesting than the current sub-license tests, as there is really no point in simple brake challenges. Personal feedback should be given based on driving style and mistakes. (Based on telemetry comparisons etc this wouldn't be really hard to implement.)

The real license tests could include an online portion for ghosts (duh) or even single free-roam type events where players can simultaneously try and beat the target times.

I would also do away with the bonus cars. The goal of licences would solely be for SP progression and online filtering ("S gold only" type filters). Only karting events would be accessible in SP without a license.

Would the people that are against licences now really hate doing 1 mandatory TT just to start the SP game? Or 3 TTs to get in SOME of the online rooms?

Of course if PD implements something else to somehow classify drivers for online races (like iRacing, although I found that a bit too strict), then that would be a better alternative for the license filter.
 

Jump_Ace

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Like Amar and a few other mentioned, I'd love to be able to restrict an online room by license test completions. But I want the tests to be super super hard, very strict. I want to struggle to get gold on the license tests again, they were 10x more rewarding in GT1-3. I learn best through repetition and if there is a turn or set of turns I don't know well, the license tests will tell me, and provide a fun way and rewarding way to iron out the kinks.

But I do see the point of not having them too, but I think if they make over 100 new and different tests that unlock cars and/or credits that might sway some people. They could even do a 'core' set of license tests to unlock enduros and professional level races. Have the rest be optional, but online mode restricts based on how many license tests you do beyond the 'core' group, and how fast you are. With the goal in mind to hopefully weed out chumps online, and providing a richer (& optional) experience to the license tests.


Jerome
 
7,197
Exorcet
OE Exorcet
Making licenses mandatory for online is about the worst thing that can be done. It blocks off quick access to online racing and events, which can be the entire point to buying the game. It also forces people to avoid real racing and learning everything that comes with it.

The "chumps" weed themselves out, and the host is there to make sure that they're gone for good when they've outstayed their welcome.

As for more tests with unlocks swaying people, not a chance, at least not for me. That's just insult on top of injury.
 

amar212

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Making licenses mandatory for online is about the worst thing that can be done. It blocks off quick access to online racing and events, which can be the entire point to buying the game. It also forces people to avoid real racing and learning everything that comes with it.

There should and always will be "open" races, as well as ones that would allow me to set up - for instance - the open public room where I simply demand that all that enter have Gold on all licenses. And to have the same option to filter, so I can search only for races that have such filter applied.

Of course, separate online-etiquette tracker would be the best, but that one will probably not come wit GT6.
 
7,197
Exorcet
OE Exorcet
Though I despise the idea of license based rooms, if it's optional, all is fair. It was making licenses mandatory for online that I was speaking against.

The host should have control over the room.
 

Grand Prix

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Just wondering, but have any of you that are worried that required licenses will discourage people from playing GT because they are slow, considered just how slow these people would have to be to fail to get Bronze? For me the videos of people struggling with the demos at E3 and Gamescom come to mind here. I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to race online or anything, but it's something to keep in mind. :lol:

I would personally like it if the licenses replaced the experience point system as a requirement for entering races. I have enjoyed them since the first GT, and the game feels like something other than GT to me without having to do them.

That said, they can be a bit repetitive and time wasting to some people perhaps. Maybe they could leave both systems in and leave it up to you to decide which system you want to use? If you struggle with the licenses you can wait for the required XP to enter races instead, but if you're very good, you can get all the licenses in just a day, and enter races with all the prize cars you have won from obtaining licenses. Yes, I realize this sounds like GT5, :lol:, but the difference being that you only need an S license to do the Le Mans 24 Hours. You wouldn't have to do the same endurance race several times to get the required XP.

Or, maybe they could have no restrictions in place and let everyone run wild.
Party.gif
 
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Jahgee

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I really hope we can put license restrictions on our lobbies, so that the elitists can segregate themselves without us casual players needing to do so. Just think of how nice racing rooms will be without the people that constantly complain about how so&so isn't practicing "proper racecraft"
 
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I think compulsory licence test is a must in GT6 (of course without SRF pls!), because license test is a important part of GT, if you able to skip the license test, not all players will experience the full enjoyment of GT.
 
3,879
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Demoting parts of the game that have been there since the beginning does feel like something is being taken away from it's core.

I don't consider the license tests a core part of the game, at all. They aren't a core of most other racing games either, and they don't suffer for it.

I really hope we can put license restrictions on our lobbies, so that the elitists can segregate themselves without us casual players needing to do so. Just think of how nice racing rooms will be without the people that constantly complain about how so&so isn't practicing "proper racecraft"

As has been mentioned in this thread, nothing in past GT Licenses has taught the player about racecraft against real opponents.

I think compulsory licence test is a must in GT6 (of course without SRF pls!), because license test is a important part of GT, if you able to skip the license test, not all players will experience the full enjoyment of GT.

I think the fact that players would skip them demonstrates exactly how much they enjoy the license tests.
 
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Johnnypenso

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I really hope we can put license restrictions on our lobbies, so that the elitists can segregate themselves without us casual players needing to do so. Just think of how nice racing rooms will be without the people that constantly complain about how so&so isn't practicing "proper racecraft"

So you're an elitist if you want people to practice proper racecraft?:lol: Funny, I thought that was kind of the goal of a racing game, to respect each other on the track for the benefit of everyone.
 
2,757
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GTP_SnowCrash
As much as many people (me included) would like to have some form of method to control the ability of drivers in online rooms, I don't think this will ever really work.

I'm sure there will plenty of people who will put the time in to beat the license tests just so that they get that trophy, just as they did with the X2010 Special Event, but that doesn't really mean they are what would be considered to be a fast driver, let alone a consistent one. They can still beat most of the tests just with trying enough times, and they'll get lucky once.

Maybe I'm too pessimistic about this, but I think the method will continue to be trial&error and private rooms. E.g. the method of WRS seems to be a good method to control driver's abilities.
 

Jubby

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I'll get past my agreement with the "yes, because I like it" sentiment.

We all wanted some form of tradition to be brought back to the series, a lot of folks found the XP to be a grind to get to the next level. The first few GT games had a get-this-licence-to-enter-this-race scenario. Combining the facts that quite a few of us want tradition and the XP elimination, I think that to keep a sort of progression, the licence would be important to facilitate this.

How about a what-if?

What if the licence tests increased payouts and difficulty potential? (similar to SlipZtrEm's login bonus)
Example:
All races are eligible for unlock from start of the game, split into the different licence levels. Complete all in one level to continue.
Complete the B licence tests, the corresponding B licence events increase payouts y%, give the option to increase the difficulty, and give you a common bonus car for the event.
Complete the B licence at silver or gold and the payouts increase 2y% and 3y%, plus increase optional difficulty levels, and gives you a less common bonus car, and finally an exclusive bonus car.
Repeat for the A, International, and Super licence levels.
The licence tests would not be mandatory, but would yield additional fun, increase the difficulty (some of us want a faster AI), and better rewards.
Think of the difficulty increase potential as a drop down on the driving options page, similar to the choices to the old GT arcade mode (Easy, Normal, Difficult) but be: Normal, B Bronze, B Silver, B Gold.

In the higher difficulty levels, the AI is faster (pushing the car closer and closer to the limits- think of a pushing Bob), more aggressive (blocking), and even lower PP/HP/tire restrictions. I'm thinking increased replay value and challenge. The only real tweaking that PD would have to do it get the AI to be more aggressive and block more. If that cannot be done, they could just stick with a harder pushing AI and the entry restrictions.
 
7,197
Exorcet
OE Exorcet
Why not just make the licenses optional and then when you go to a race you select the difficulty?

Making it so that you need to pass licenses just to make the AI worthwhile sounds terrible. Plus you're also forcing options into groups instead of being separate. There should not be a hard mode or easy mode. There should just be options to set AI, set race length, set PP restrictions, etc.

If people want tradition, then why not make GT6 fully open and then have an option to enable traditional mode?
 

sems4arsenal

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There are alot of fun options they could add for the Tests,Stuff like controlling your car on a skid pad,Short timed auto cross lap,Test to improve launching cars without TC,Drifitng mini tests,etc.
 

Johnnypenso

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....wall of text...How about a what-if?...wall of text....

All sounds like great ideas, so long as it's optional. It doesn't matter what you do for millions of experienced players, the license tests are boring, repetitive, unnecessary and teach you nothing about racecraft or how to deal with real people on the track. They may be a good tool for newer drivers and those not wishing to participate online and so they should stay in the game for that reason, but only as an option, not required, at least in my opinion.

I'd rather see something more along the lines of skills testing with some kind of feedback and tests that can be done in numerous ways with different vehicles. Let's say for example, you have a full lap of Deep Forest. Do a few laps, record the time, then someone pops up and gives you a review of your lap. "You missed this apex here, you braked a little late there, you could have got on the throttle a bit sooner here, a little too much oversteer there...etc.."...etc. Not really that hard to do and in time you'd see the same video snippets over and over, but at least it would be a learning too. If they gave you an option of a 400PP car on CS, 450ish on SH, 500ish on SM's, 550ish on SS, and a 600PP racecar on RH tires it could become an invaluable learning tool.