Controller vs. Wheel

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ThePass
I've seen people ask, and I've wondered myself, whether one can drive faster with a steering wheel than a controller. Some have answered that yes, you can, but I've never seen solid evidence of it, and I just found out for myself, this is a little long, but might be of interest to those who are considering buying a wheel:

I've been playing GT5 as much as possible since the day it was released, amongst work, school, and the girlfriend, and I've been playing the GT series religously since GT3, so I've got a mountain's worth of experience using the controller.

In Practice mode, I like to log a personal best time with all of my favorite cars on certain tracks so that I can compare the cars apples to apples. I chose Monza for the track to compare all of my race cars. All times are on racing soft tires, no drivers aids, traction control zero, ABS 1. Best time is a best of 5 laps - no more, sure I could probably hammer out an even faster time given more laps, but doing it this way helps to see which cars I can put a fast lap down in sooner/easier to determine which cars I can be more consistent with.

Anyways, among the cars I've logged a time at Monza with was my Audi ABT Touring car (with all xtra HP mods) and the Peugot 908 (again with all xtra HP mods). The Audi is AWD, so really stable and composed and easy to put down a clean fast lap with. My best of 5 was a 1:43.6. The Peugot was another story. The car is just extremely light, has tons of power, and is RWD so even after tuning it requires a lot of finesse in 2nd and 3rd gear to maintain traction. I didn't get a nice fast time in until the 4th or 5th lap and that was a 1:32.6. I definitely felt there was a faster lap to be had there, but it was hard enough to just be smooth enough to get one good clean lap in within the 5.

Fast forward a week, I just got my Driving Force GT two days ago. Put a desk in front of the plasma tv, mounted the wheel to it, and used a desk chair to sit in. Not optimal, but it does the job for now. Even better ergonomics may make using the wheel even easier.

First of all, to anyone thinking of moving to a wheel, understand that you have to literally re-learn the game. The way you interact with the car is just totally different now that you have 900* of wheel rotation instead of 1" of joystick movement, coupled with force feedback which bucks when you hit the rumble strips and jerks when you come over a crest just slightly sideways. But, assuming you aren't a child and have been driving in real life, you'll acclimate, especially if you have any motorsports experience. I've been doing competetive autocrossing for the last three years and done a few track days myself so once I "unlearned" the techniques I had developed with a controller and started actually "driving" with the wheel, things began to click.

I started with license tests to get familiar with how the wheel felt, moved on to beginner and intermediate stuff on sports hard tires with basic cars and then on to tuned cars with racing hard tires. After a while I felt confident enough to use a race car. Spent about 3 hours racing an unmodified Honda NSX LM prototype against JGTC cars in the JGTC races in Extreme. Man, that is some fun and challenging stuff. So, here I am two days later and I'm just feeling confident enough with the wheel setup to use just about any car that I have, although I still haven't tried the Formula GT... might wait a bit more on that.

So, the cold hard facts: I just went back to Monza. First with the ABT car. Same settings as before, except the HP was a little down since I had used it a bunch and not changed the oil - the original 1:43.6 had been done with 610 horsepower, and now it was down to 585hp. Went out, first lap I got acclimated to the car, did a 1:44.x, on just the second lap around I smashed my best time with a 1:42.1, and every lap following was a hair faster, finally ending the fifth lap with a 1:41.5. More than two seconds faster.

At this point I was excited, so I decided to give the 908 a go. Mind you, this is the first time driving this fast of a car with the wheel. The ABT was the fastest car I'd driven up to this, so I was a bit apprehensive because I knew how touchy and fast the 908 was. My previous best was a 1:32.6. Went out on the first lap and kept it civil and did a 1:34.x, and on the second lap did a 1:30.5! Third lap was invalidated because I hit the grass in one spot, but it would have been a 1:29.2!

So, there you have it. The wheel offers so much more control and precision that, once you get used to it, you can really be faster AND more consistent (which is even more important than just being fast) with the wheel than a controller. I'm sure there are those who used the wheel and didn't like it, that's fine. Different strokes for different folks, but I won't be going back to the controller.

-Ryan
 
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I played with a wheel from the very beginning because I completely did not see the point of purchasing a driving simulator without the wheel. Anyhow, a wheel definitely adds to the over all experience. However, I still find it easier to drift on a controller because counter-steering is so much more intuitive that way. Otherwise its wheel all the way.
 
Really good post man. Well documented. My driving force is being shipped right now. My own Christmas gift to myself :) I bought a rigid portable work bench for $30 instead of a $150 wheelstand. I can't freaking wait for this thing to get here. I'll start with the licences test first. That's a good idea as I already know how to beat them.
 
I've always used a controller in all Gran Turismos. I guess i'm just so used to it that i don't feel the need to waste $150 odd dollars on a wheel :rolleyes:.
 
i used a controller from gt1-4. i bought the driving force GT for GT5. it was a reasonable price for me (i cant believe the price of the others, its insane!) ...... my knees are not that good and I can only used the pedals for a certain amount of time so i regularly switch between controller and wheel, the biggest difference is the strange steering buffer they use for the controller and as a result you cant turn the steering to its maximum grip limit... the wheel on the other hand can turn well past the steerings grip limit and can continue to turn all the way to full lock with massive smokey understeer... a great place to test the controller VS Wheels turning capabilities is at INDY
 
I've always used a controller in all Gran Turismos. I guess i'm just so used to it that i don't feel the need to waste $150 odd dollars on a wheel :rolleyes:.

Most people see it as anything BUT a waste when it makes the game more realistic AND fun for them.

You have any friends with a wheel? Borrow it for a few days. You might change your tune. :)
 
I've always used a controller in all Gran Turismos. I guess i'm just so used to it that i don't feel the need to waste $150 odd dollars on a wheel :rolleyes:.

Waste? I am sure most people that did get a wheel for the first time were apprehensive but very few called it a waste after..

Thats fine you don't want a wheel, you play it how you want but if you haven't tried it then you're in no position to call it a waste. I don't have any idea what the rolleyes smiley is for either.
 
I'm a new DFGT wheel user, and I have to say it has made me faster than the controller. :drool:

The best thing I like about the wheel is being able to change my racing line slightly while I'm in the middle of the turn. With Ds3, I would be over correcting and braking, but with the wheel I can make adjustments more precisely.


However I'm still unfamiliar with how to correctly counter steer out of a slide, cause once I loose control with the wheel I'm off the track.:nervous:

With Ds3 I can still bring the car back under control. :sly:
 
I have a DFGT wheel, but couldn't be bothered to set it up the other night as i was just going to grind "like the wind" indy circuit in my R10 stealth. That car on that track wins by 11 seconds easily with the wheel. Never lifted off the gas and just a very small amount of wheel input.

With the DS3 it was horrific, first corner I hit the wall as the car wouldn't turn enough to make the turn at full speed. After a lot of attempts I just managed to win by 0.5secs. I had to lift off and even brake a little just to make the turns. Can't believe how much worse it was.
 
I played with a wheel from the very beginning because I completely did not see the point of purchasing a driving simulator without the wheel. Anyhow, a wheel definitely adds to the over all experience. However, I still find it easier to drift on a controller because counter-steering is so much more intuitive that way. Otherwise its wheel all the way.

I feel the exact opposite on this one. Find that drifting for me is hard on the controller and very easy on a good wheel. I have lots of practice drifting for fun aka spectator and some practice drifting while actually racing so not for looking cool and I can say that spectator drifting in this game is much much easier on the wheel and that drifting while racing is not scary with the wheel where it is scary and I try to avoid it on the controller.

When I say drifting for racing I am talking any amount of oversteer that requires any counter-steer regardless how little. I have a video on youtube of me doing very minor counter-steering in a car that I do not want to drift but as you reach its limits it begins to drift. Full race moded mr2 (called prepared in scca) I find that in this game similar cars I have to do the same fighting and shaking of the wheel to battle the fine line between the max capability of the car and spinning out. If you want to see what I mean check out william murphy mr2 it is not my vehicle but that is me the owner let me give it a try I don't fit in the vehicle very well as I am 1ft taller than the owner so it is very difficult for me to brake properly (left foot)

Anyways my point

The game is very realistic with a wheel and I find for me it makes the game much easier as I am not very good at video games but I am pretty good at racing since I have raced karts: briggs light and hpv-100 heavy as well as cars of all kinds I retired my last car in oct 2009 when I moved back to illinois.

I would recommend to ANYONE get a wheel you will love it and it will make you a better driver in real life. Also it will be very hard and much different when you first get one but you will enjoy!
 
(copied from X1 challenge thread)


Concerning the subject of using the DS3, the more I progress through GT5, the more convinced I am the physics model has outstripped the practical use of this controller.

Being IMO the worst console design to start with, doesn't help.
(even the Dreamcast had a better controller than this, over 10 yrs ago)


I find myself constantly wishing I could use my 360 controller.
I'm not sure how much of having a better controller is a factor in the impression of FM3's physics being too easy.
Its definitely the opposite in this game for me

As pointed out in this thread, this will be even more apparent upon undertaking the X1 challenges.
 
Just to add my experience of the last few days, yeah I've used a controller since GT2 (shamefully didn't own GT1) and bought a DFGT couple of days ago. Bloody steep learning curve to start off with (probably should have started with something a bit tamer than the f430) but I just kept at it and definitely seen lap times improve. But on top of that the immersion of force feedback makes it suddenly feel like you were missing out on half the realism with a controller, It's been said a million times but you really can 'feel' the car.
 
I've always used a controller in all Gran Turismos. I guess i'm just so used to it that i don't feel the need to waste $150 odd dollars on a wheel :rolleyes:.

its not about being 'used' to a controller, i use a wheel and was quite used to my DS3, but the wheel not only makes me quicker, but makes the experience so much more exciting and unique compared to other games. Just my oppinion, but if you 'prefer' using a DS3 thats fair enough.
 
Great post, OP - when I switched from a controller to a DFGT a little over 2 months ago, it took me about ~8-10 hours to get used to it and begin to exceed my lap using the DS3. But once that happened, I never looked back. Actually, to be completely honest, I did go back to the DS3 to complete the rally challenges for Eiger - I couldn't easily negotiate the consecutive hairpins. But I may go back and try it again.
 
Great post, I always wonered how much of a difference the wheel made. I bought a G25 6 months ago and it was the best choice I ever made. Can't drive without it.
 
Great post. I have been playing the GT series since the first installment on PS1 and have done so by using the classic sony controller. With the advent of GT5 I upgraded to a DFGT and a Wheelstand and tried consistently to get used to it by doing the majority of the licences using the wheel.
I have the following remark. On most cases I am faster with the wheel than the controller BUT in two cases that I can recall after a number of tries i switched (successfully) to the controller.
Namely: IA10 challenge ( Overtaking in Grand Valley Speedway with a Lamborghini)
Top Gear Test Track challenge (Overtaking with a Lotus Elise)

In both cases I lost control of the car right on the first turn while steering under brakes. Both cars are mid engined. I always had massive over-steer and finally spin-out and whatever combination of gas-break-steering input I used there was no way to prevent it.
Both challenges were completed with the controller and with gold.
What am I doing wrong?
 
Great post. I have been playing the GT series since the first installment on PS1 and have done so by using the classic sony controller. With the advent of GT5 I upgraded to a DFGT and a Wheelstand and tried consistently to get used to it by doing the majority of the licences using the wheel.
I have the following remark. On most cases I am faster with the wheel than the controller BUT in two cases that I can recall after a number of tries i switched (successfully) to the controller.
Namely: IA10 challenge ( Overtaking in Grand Valley Speedway with a Lamborghini)
Top Gear Test Track challenge (Overtaking with a Lotus Elise)

In both cases I lost control of the car right on the first turn while steering under brakes. Both cars are mid engined. I always had massive over-steer and finally spin-out and whatever combination of gas-break-steering input I used there was no way to prevent it.
Both challenges were completed with the controller and with gold.
What am I doing wrong?
Try to get all your braking done in a straight line. If you can't then keep a little throttle open. This single-handedly got me the gold in the TG Test Track Elise Challenge.
 
It's been my experience (with both, racing head to head, etc...) that a lot of it comes down to real world driving ability as well. I have a friend that is an "average driver," and he is much better with a controller. He found it hard to get used to the virtual drving experience and in my opinion it generally comes down to what feels the best. The wheel to me is just natural - its kind of like point and shoot. Spot your apex, hands and feet just kind of do the right things, spot your exit point and then hammer down! Doesn't get any better than GT5 and a good racing wheel (except for the real thing of course!)

:gtpflag:
 
Concerning the subject of using the DS3, the more I progress through GT5, the more convinced I am the physics model has outstripped the practical use of this controller.

I came to the conclusion of I can't use controller for GT game since the first time I played GT4 Prologue at my friend's house. This is coming from playing GT1 and GT2 on controller and am used to the PS controller's quirk. Before I even bought GT4 and PS2 proper I got the DFP, played a bunch of PC games with it, then went to GT4. Now I can't driving with a controller for the life of me...
 
Try to get all your braking done in a straight line. If you can't then keep a little throttle open. This single-handedly got me the gold in the TG Test Track Elise Challenge.

Thanks for the tip. If I understand correctly I should push the accelerator slightly while I am braking, since there is no way I (speaking for myself) can brake only in a straight line.:p
 
I just bought a DFGT today. I am top 30 in the Midwest region- GT Academy (The-Schwarz) with the dualshock. The wheel is a whole new ballgame. I suddenly suck. Over-steer has quintupled in intensity and lifting the throttle seems to do nothing to straighten the car out. Every time I hit a rumble strip or a curb the car seems to spin? Everyone else on here says you get used to it...I'll keep you posted.
I do have a question though: do you guys left foot brake using the DFGT? I can't do it in real life but it seems a little faster in GT5.
 
I have a wheel, but honestly, it's just too big of a PITA to set up each time I want to play so most times, I just use the controller...
 
I play about 50/50 with my G25 and a DS3, one PS3 has the G25 setup and the other has no wheel, so DS3 it is.

I find it easier to lap faster and more consistently with the wheel, you get a lot more feedback and have a finer control with the wheel. While the DS3 is harder to obtain the quick lap times and harder to be consistent, but can match/nearly match a wheel user,or at least my own times with the wheel. Amusingly though I have obtained the 'Human Stopwatch' trophy only on my DS3 PS3 and I won it racing the RX7 '90 Seasonal Event around Deep Forest.
 
I've never used a wheel in my life time with a video game and sure am not about to spend extra 600 bucks on a wheel that's just a total joke. I'm happy with a controller and it's not even the dual shock kind.
 
I just bought a DFGT today. I am top 30 in the Midwest region- GT Academy (The-Schwarz) with the dualshock. The wheel is a whole new ballgame. I suddenly suck. Over-steer has quintupled in intensity and lifting the throttle seems to do nothing to straighten the car out. Every time I hit a rumble strip or a curb the car seems to spin? Everyone else on here says you get used to it...I'll keep you posted.
I do have a question though: do you guys left foot brake using the DFGT? I can't do it in real life but it seems a little faster in GT5.
Maybe you're experiencing lift off oversteer that you were previously able to straighten out using the much faster movement of the joystick on the DS3? If that is the case, try to not let go suddenly of the throttle and instead ease it off in those situations. The spins on the rumble strips may be due to the same thing; DS3 stick is quicker. When using a wheel which takes longer to move, the fine throttle control becomes more critical, just as in reality. Overall, a smoother, less twitchy, driving style is required with a wheel and pedal set.

Oh, and I do not left foot brake, but others do. There are pros and cons of both methods - you'll have to find what suits you best.

DJ
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@ ThePass : very interesting posting!

Personally I'd use a wheel even if I knew it made me slower, simply because of the immersion factor and closer to real feel of it. Thanks to your experiment I can now rest assured that it may even make me faster :D (I've never raced with the DS3 BTW...)

DJ
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