Corvettes European woes - Evo

[zdenko]

You European's get a bargin, check the Australian Price for a Z06

Z06:
250,000 AUD
$213,000 USD
158,000 Euros

LOL so true.

Bit off topic but we will be selling our holden commodore in the states as a pontiac g8.

Now the gt model there is gonna cost between $35000-$40000 US. The yanks are winging about that price for some reason!
In australia the most eqivalent model would have to be the HSVsenator and that costs about $80000AU. Thats like $68000US.

How the hell how the hell can they be making a $30000US saving in the states thats bull!

Whats weird is this is for all cars across the board no matter where they are made. They are all significanlty cheaper in the US WHY? I understand that the US is the biggest car market ut it looks to me that they are still buying more trucks then cars aka ford f-series and chey silverado or what ever it is. It wouldn't bother me if there was like a $5000 dollar difference but prices that are almost double the difference are just plain rediculous!

Honeslty though the corvette deserves to sell like crap. Its so basic. There are cheapo korean cars with better designed suspension and interiors. Like comon leaf sprins on a high performance car! Get real! I hope it flops here in Australia to.
The only Yank cars that have sold well in Australia in recent times would be the chrysler PT cruiser and 300c but even they didn't sell that good comapared to the competition.
We''' just borrow there engines for our superior doemstic cars thanks.

 

[TheCracker]

GM needs to make sure the next Corvette has a ...and make it the first American car with a proper interior....Also when GM increases the price...

I can't see this happening to be honest. To keep it as the performance bargain that it is (in the US if not elsewhere) it has to be built to a budget. As a high performance car it's always going to be the interior that has to suffer. Since it's the domestic market that's by far the most important market fot the Vette and if that market doesn't mind the relatively cut-price interior - then there's no need to change the formula is there?

 

[Hugo Boss]

I can't see this happening to be honest. To keep it as the performance bargain that it is (in the US if not elsewhere) it has to be built to a budget. As a high performance car it's always going to be the interior that has to suffer. Since it's the domestic market that's by far the most important market fot the Vette and if that market doesn't mind the relatively cut-price interior - then there's no need to change the formula is there?

True, the European market will never be big enough to make it worthwile to sacrifice the NA market. Because of the different preferences of all continents, it will be impossible to develop a car that sells well everywhere. Unless you want to call the Corolla a proper car, ofcourse.
Maybe building a new car that shares the technology of the Corvette, but is fitted with a better interior and more exciting exterior, is an option for GM. I'm sure it will sell better than the current C6 here, but enough to take the risk?

 

[TheCracker]

Maybe building a new car that shares the technology of the Corvette, but is fitted with a better interior and more exciting exterior, is an option for GM. I'm sure it will sell better than the current C6 here, but enough to take the risk?

Don't they already do that to an extent with the Cadillac XLR?

One fairly large issue is that it's LHD only. The UK has a voracious appetite for performance cars - excluding that market is like shooting yourself in the foot as far as European sales are concerned. The Japanese and Australian markets are also RHD.

 

[Muzaffar]

Its weird to say this but.....i don't think american cars will EVER sell well in europe.Why?Its simple of course,Europeans wants a european cars,Americans want an american cars,Japanese wants a japanese cars,etc.Get the point?Its hard to be in a market that has already been established in such high standards.I don't even know how Corvettes would actually even sell compared to the 911.Its just the difference in taste,thats all.Not many people in Europe would even know about the Corvettes.

By the way,why does japanese cars gotten so expensive these days?(a Lexus here would cost almost a million!)(and even a Skyline GT-R R34 would cost $100,000) its just unfair how the market is.....

 

[Dave A]

TYhat point would stand, and to a point it still does anyway, if it wasn't for the fact that Japanese cars sell well in Japan, Europe and the US.

Those are my choices over the Corvette. But truth be told I'd take 90% of that list over a Corvette...well actually I liked more like 100%.



Some Ford dealers marked the GT up over sticker to as high as $240k. The Ford dealer I work for sold the last one they had for $225k. Not really that much of a price difference there.

Well obviousely cars can get marked up anywhere, the last Ford GT's sold in the UK could have been marked up over the list prices, and that's what we're comparing here, list prices. In the US the Ford GT was listed at $140k until 2007 when it wen't up to $150k.

 

[///M-Spec]

There are some really good responses in this thread so far. +reps for the high quality of discussion 👍 Glad to see an utter lack of Corvette bashing as well.

Factoid: GM reduced the C6's exterior dimensions (compared to C5) in an attempt to improve the car's chances in the European market. The directive may have also influenced the styling as well because the C6 also looks more svelte than the C5.


M

 

[SouL]

I wouldn't be surprised if the 911 outsells the C6 here in the US. Well... at least it seems that way here in Southern California. 911s are quite common down here. German cars are, actually, common in general.

mnm_bmx: Isn't there some bizarre law there in Malaysia that heavily taxes non-Malaysian cars?

 

[Pupik]

I took a V8 Mustang convertible from the biggest importer you'll find here (you can only buy imports), totally new car, and configured the exact same car on the US website of Ford. Here, you pay 44,510 Euros for the car, which equals 59,643 US$. For the exact same car, US citizens pay 36,470 US$. For the cheapest Corvette you can get here, the C6 coupe with a manual 6-Speed, you pay 65,290 Euros, which equals 87,489 US$. For the same car, US citizens pay 45,075 US$.

Oh dear, that's expensive. So where do you service a Vette in Europe, anyhow? At a Daewoo dealer?

 

[JCE]

You know, I've been thinking about the subject today of the GM coupe in Europe and I've arrived at a small conclusion. If GM continues to leave the mid-level sports coupe market unfilled for much longer it could seriously hurt their worldwide reputation. I know their rep isn't as good in alot of non-American countries but still, the ZO6 has at least been the highest rated American GM product I've ever seen in Europe.

What's my solution? Simply this:

Package that with a European style IRS and keep the price reasonable even for Europe and I could see GM actually getting traction in this segment.

What's my reasoning for this you ask? Simply that a certain car has achieved what the Camaro is sure to achieve if GM plays their cards right. And what is this said car? Simply this lovable beast for whom I would sell YOUR children to own (in original HSV trim of course):

But, having said some of that...the point of this thread is concerning the Corvette. And I'm affriad until GM puts a truely modern suspension in at least ONE trim level they will be (un)fairly discriminated against and therefore be the butt of jokes from around the world. Let's face facts ladies and gents, no matter how awsome the ZO6 is on a track--and it is truely awsome--it is completely rubbish for the real world. And that is where a good solid suspension comes into play.

GM, honestly, put an awsome suspension in the new Corvette and you will sell more abroad. The previous comment also applies to the NEXT GENERATION Mustang--listen up Ford you numbskulls...just do it.

This ends my semi-intelligent contribution to this thread.

 

[McLaren]

I don't know JCE. The new Camaro may be a badass, but it's past models don't seem to have the "kickass car" idea around it in Europe like it does here in the U.S.

 

[JCE]

Thing is, I honestly thing GM is learning (albeit slowly) about how to put together a decent car all the way around. The Camaro SHOULD be the best vehicle GM will make--with the endless amount of technology at their disposal. If GM screws this up I will 100% lose all hope for GM of North America. As a current Camaro owner I will officially protest till my last dying breath if GM screws it up.

I do sincerely believe that the new Camaro CAN do well in Europe. The Monaro is proof of the fact that Europeans do like a good RWD coupe with V8 power and at reasonable price.

 

[the Interceptor]

Oh dear, that's expensive. So where do you service a Vette in Europe, anyhow? At a Daewoo dealer?

Actually that's a good question, I have no idea.

In conclusion, I must say I do like the current Corvette, the Camaro and especially the Holden. And I would buy one, despite the not so modern suspension and whatnot. I mean if I like the car and it gives me a laugh, why should I care that it does not have the latest technical detail here and there, I probably won't notice all the time I drive the thing. There's only one thing that Chevrolet would have to do though: sell the cars for US money. That's the only way they can make those models interesting for the European market.

 

[Dave A]

No JCE is right, if that Camaro got sold over here in similar volume to the Monaro, rhd like the Monaro and at a good price like the Monaro it would get snapped up. It is a fantastic looking car, we all know the history of the Camaro, I don't know many Brits that like the Camaro that recently went out of production, but I know plenty into cars who like the old muscle cars and would love to see the new one on the streets. Lookswise it's fantastic, Evo managed to test one of the pre-production concepts, I didn't read the article but I heared that they liked it.

I think in Europe, the Camaro stands a much better chance of success than the Corvette, but in the UK it needs rhd to be considered as a serious potential purchase for most people.


Pupik, we doin't have any Daewoo dealers anymore, Daewoo's are all badged Chevrolets here, so technically, you'd service a Corvette at a Chevrolet dealer. Though the Corvette in the UK is not badged a Chevrolet, it's Badged as a Corvette and the Model is C6 Coupe/ Cabriolet/ Z06 etc.

 

[RouWa]

In Europe the average general sales tax is 20%. If the net price of a product is 100.000 €, you have to pay 120.000 €. That's one reason why cars are more expensive than in America.

I really can't say why the Vette does not sell. It even got good reviews over here (TOP GEAR does not count). There might be better cars, but those cars are far more expensive. The Vette is really a bargain. For the price of the Vette you don't get anything equal.

I agree, the Z06 is about 15,000 Euros cheaper than the similarly-performing competition, such as an Audi R8, A Porsche 911 Turbo and other cars. However, at that price range, people that have this kind of money will gladly spend another 15,000 Euros for getting a german badge and a higher quality interior.

Either this or it's the American look of that car. I'm afraid Europeans do not like it. I would not buy a sports car that looks ugly (I like the Vette).

 

[Dave A]

You say TopGear doesn't count, TopGear gave it good reviews. Actually TopGears reviews are usually quite good and quite often come to a similar verdict to other well respected magazines once you've actually found the reviews among the adverts anyway. I don't know why people seem to think that just because the TV show is sometimes a bit controversial in it's humour that the reviews arn't worth the paper they're printed on.

For the Price of a Vette you get a few cars that are just as quick or quicker in the UK. For the Price of the Z06 you can get a few cars that offer similar performance for around the same cost, like the Noble M14. This is something that me and YSSMAN and Joey have debated about regarding the Vettes universal appeal in great lenth. I wasn't aware prices would be much different in Germany, you do still get a lot of the sportscars we get over there.

 

[JCE]

No JCE is right, if that Camaro got sold over here in similar volume to the Monaro, rhd like the Monaro and at a good price like the Monaro it would get snapped up. It is a fantastic looking car, we all know the history of the Camaro, I don't know many Brits that like the Camaro that recently went out of production, but I know plenty into cars who like the old muscle cars and would love to see the new one on the streets. Lookswise it's fantastic, Evo managed to test one of the pre-production concepts, I didn't read the article but I heared that they liked it.

I think in Europe, the Camaro stands a much better chance of success than the Corvette, but in the UK it needs rhd to be considered as a serious potential purchase for most people.

100% agreed, especially with the bold portion. It absolutely HAS to be able to be RHD if it is going to compete legitimately in other world markets. GM has to know this...and thus should understand and impliment RHD. After all, the Monaro was capable of both LHD and RHD respectively. I would probably say with confidence that was a rather large selling point to UK buyers wasn't it?

I bet lunch that if the Corvette was LHD it would probably automatically sell 25% more units instantly the day it arrived on European soil. Put a proper suspension on it and it would automatically sell the other 75% more units.

 

[McLaren]

Pupik, we doin't have any Daewoo dealers anymore, Daewoo's are all badged Chevrolets here, so technically, you'd service a Corvette at a Chevrolet dealer. Though the Corvette in the UK is not badged a Chevrolet, it's Badged as a Corvette and the Model is C6 Coupe/ Cabriolet/ Z06 etc.

Same kind of deal with the Chrysler and Dodge Viper before, right?

 

[harrytuttle]

Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Coupe (7.0l V8, 500hp): 86,150 Euros
Porsche 911 Carrera S (3.6l B6, 355hp): 90,529 Euros

Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Coupe: US$69,175
Porsche 911 Carrera S: US$82,600

That's 5.1% more for the 911S in Europe, 19.4% more in the US.

Just so we're clear. The interior/percieved quality difference doesn't offset the performance difference enough. Then there's the ride quality, the smoothness of the drivetrain....

 

[the Interceptor]

I really can't say why the Vette does not sell. It even got good reviews over here (TOP GEAR does not count). There might be better cars, but those cars are far more expensive. The Vette is really a bargain. For the price of the Vette you don't get anything equal.

You did read what I posted before, did you?

Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Coupe: US$69,175
Porsche 911 Carrera S: US$82,600

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Cars are not only much cheaper in general in the US, the Vette also is cheaper than the competition, making it the performance bargain. I'd buy it.

 

[TheCracker]

GM has to know this...and thus should understand and impliment RHD. After all, the Monaro was capable of both LHD and RHD respectively. I would probably say with confidence that was a rather large selling point to UK buyers wasn't it?

Although all the reviews for the Monaro were very positive, and it was priced very competitively, and available in RHD - it actually didn't sell very well at all in the UK.

Explain that?

 

[the Interceptor]

Explain that?

Simple: the average car buyer buys an average car. If all people would be interested in good, sporty cars, the Monaro would sell very well. But the majority of people simply wants to get from A to B, and you don't need a Monaro for that.

 

[TheCracker]

Simple: the average car buyer buys an average car. If all people would be interested in good, sporty cars, the Monaro would sell very well. But the majority of people simply wants to get from A to B, and you don't need a Monaro for that.

But, like i said in an earlier post, the British public love their sporty cars - we buy a disproportionate amount of Mpower, AMG, Renault Sport, VXR, Type-R, RS, STi etc etc versions of normal cars. The Monaro should have sold really well - it just didn't

 

[the Interceptor]

But, like i said in an earlier post, the British public love their sporty cars - we buy a disproportionate amount of Mpower, AMG, Renault Sport, VXR, Type-R, RS, STi etc etc versions of normal cars. The Monaro should have sold really well - it just didn't

That I don't understand, I'd buy the Monaro if it were available here.

 

[TheCracker]

That I don't understand, I'd buy the Monaro if it were available here.

Same here - if i was in the market for a £35k medium/large sports coupe. Although, having said that, i would have to first take a serious look at a 3-series coupe, a CLK or an A5 too before i committed myself to something wearing a Vauxhall badge. That, i guess, is the problem they faced. It is probably one of the issues that Chevy faces when trying to sell in Europe. The Chevrolet badge has little kudos over here, a fact not helped by the re-badged Daewoos that wear the badge these days too.

 

[Hugo Boss]

Oh dear, that's expensive. So where do you service a Vette in Europe, anyhow? At a Daewoo dealer?

In The Netherlands you service your Corvette at Kroymans, the importer of Corvette. Kroymans is a company that imports several brands, like Corvette, Cadillac, Ferrari, Maserati, Aston Martin, but also Chevrolet, Kia and Alfa Romeo. Furthermore a limited amount of garages are licensed to sell and service Corvettes, mostly along with Hummers and Cadillacs. So you don't have to be afraid getting a Lacetti as a replacement car

The proposed Camaro may have a more succesful future in Europe than the Corvette. I'm not fond of (the styling of) American cars, but the new Camaro just looks badass. With such an exterior, it could even do without an interior.
Like TheCracker mentioned, RHD must be available as well then. I didn't even think of that before as an argument why the Corvette is no success in Europe.

 

[RouWa]

You say TopGear doesn't count, TopGear gave it good reviews.

I love TOP GEAR. AFAIR Jeremy Clarkson did NOT like the Vette because of some "medieval" parts (suspension?).

 

[forza2.0]

I suppose this would be a good time to make a joke about the various european dental care systems?
Nope, not for me...

That said, I'm not really sure I understand the correlation... I mean, if dentist drive Z06s then why do they kill themselves so much here in the states? My guess- because they don't drive z06s.

I hear that german dentists along with other scandinavian countries are some of the best in the world. UK ones are pretty dismall though going by my experiences from over here (the uk) to abroad. Although I havent had a english dentist since I came back to England in 1999

 

[Dave A]

I love TOP GEAR. AFAIR Jeremy Clarkson did NOT like the Vette because of some "medieval" parts (suspension?).

Jeremy Clarkson loved the C6 Corvette, he even wen't on to say that despite it being lhd only it should still make anyones shortlist if they're after a sportacar in that price/perforamnce range. He didn't limit his love to the magazine and newspaper articles he writes either, he even said it was a very good car on the show, the bits about the medieval parts was a joke.

 

[Tornado]

That said, I'm not really sure I understand the correlation... I mean, if dentist drive Z06s then why do they kill themselves so much here in the states? My guess- because they don't drive z06s.

That was a jab at the base C6. Not the Z06.

And I'm affriad until GM puts a truely modern suspension in at least ONE trim level they will be (un)fairly discriminated against and therefore be the butt of jokes from around the world. Let's face facts ladies and gents, no matter how awsome the ZO6 is on a track--and it is truely awsome--it is completely rubbish for the real world. And that is where a good solid suspension comes into play.

The base C6 has the same type of suspension and is perfectly fine in daily driving. The Z06 is a rough rider because the suspension is stiffened to ridiculous levels so it would handle so well. There is nothing wrong with the suspension it has now.