Cosworth to return to F1 in 2015?

[Tom]

It appears as if Cosworth will be returning to Formula 1 in 2015 with their take on the 1.6L V6 Turbo Engine. I received some information from a top source (of which I cannot disclose) that is both highly reliable and informative, and they revealed that the engine manufacturer are planning a return. Seems unlikely, right?

Well... we know that it exists from this image that was released back in January and we also know that the engine will be used in an 'undisclosed' supercar project.

I should imagine that if this information is genuine, that the engine will be extensively tested throughout the year with an older Formula 1 chassis being used as a testing-plate. I contacted Cosworth, who seemed to be keeping their cards close to their chest, understandably so. However, they neither confirmed nor denied my enquiry.

Here's an article explaining more:

http://f1today.net/en/news/cosworth-to-make-formula-1-return-in-2015

 

[niky]

Be nice if they integrate a KERS unit with the powerplant, too.

Wonder if Renault's troubles will continue, and if they might lose a few customers to Cosworth?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Firstly, I don't trust anyone who claims to have access to high-level, anonymous sources. It's far too easy to claim whatever you like, and I have seen enough people post rubbish and then invoke the anonymous source to try and pass it off as authentic.

Secondly, Cosworth would not return to Formula 1 without a customer in mind, but everyone is already taken. There might be the opportunity to poach a team or two from Renault if those teams are unhappy with Renault's performance, but they would need to lure those teams away now because Renault reckon they can fix the problems, even if it takes a while. Backing a newcomer is not an option, either, since none of the applicants are guaranteed a place on the grid, and Gene Haas has said that if he gets the nod, he will go for Ferrari.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Firstly, I don't trust anyone who claims to have access to high-level, anonymous sources. It's far too easy to claim whatever you like, and I have seen enough people post rubbish and then invoke the anonymous source to try and pass it off as authentic.

Secondly, Cosworth would not return to Formula 1 without a customer in mind, but everyone is already taken. There might be the opportunity to poach a team or two from Renault if those teams are unhappy with Renault's performance, but they would need to lure those teams away now because Renault reckon they can fix the problems, even if it takes a while. Backing a newcomer is not an option, either, since none of the applicants are guaranteed a place on the grid, and Gene Haas has said that if he gets the nod, he will go for Ferrari.

Bit harsh to be honest that one. Who are you to say whether his source is genuine or not? I've seen you post as much rubbish as anyone else with little to no back-up at all.

I can see Cosworth returning, they have good knowledge of F1 and despite their V8 plant not being great, they can come back strong.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Who are you to say whether his source is genuine or not?

And that is the problem: nobody can say whether or not his source is genuine.

I've seen you post as much rubbish as anyone else with little to no back-up at all.

But I have never claimed to have an anonymous source supporting what I post.

 

[Tom]

Firstly, I don't trust anyone who claims to have access to high-level, anonymous sources. It's far too easy to claim whatever you like, and I have seen enough people post rubbish and then invoke the anonymous source to try and pass it off as authentic.

Secondly, Cosworth would not return to Formula 1 without a customer in mind, but everyone is already taken. There might be the opportunity to poach a team or two from Renault if those teams are unhappy with Renault's performance, but they would need to lure those teams away now because Renault reckon they can fix the problems, even if it takes a while. Backing a newcomer is not an option, either, since none of the applicants are guaranteed a place on the grid, and Gene Haas has said that if he gets the nod, he will go for Ferrari.

The source is not a personal one, it is related to the site. However, the reason behind keeping it anonymous is because my Boss at the site has requested me to and revealing it could get me into a whole World of problems. I can understand how not revealing it looks that way also, and may create just as many problems, but it's a risk I am willing to take for now.

Regardless of that, it still seems to be plausible for Cosworth to make a return, although as you said, customers may be sparse unless some teams are unhappy with Renault's performance. Also to take into consideration is the return of Honda, which I can imagine some teams may be interested in running. It seems realistically possible, but I don't see how development would occur should they not have the backing or confirmation that at least one team would use their engines.

 

[RavingBonkers]

I can see Cosworth returning, they have good knowledge of F1 and despite their V8 plant not being great,

I work at Cosworth, which V8 are you referring to, last years ?

 

[MagpieRacer]

I work at Cosworth, which V8 are you referring to, last years ?

CA2010 on. But to be fair it could just be that the cars it was strapped to didn't do it justice.

 

[RavingBonkers]

CA2010 on. But to be fair it could just be that the cars it was strapped to didn't do it justice.

👍

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The costs of engine development are so high that the only way I can see this working is if Cosworth get at least two teams on-board. There are a few scenarios I can think of here:

1) Red Bull are unhappy with the Renault engine, and switch to Cosworth. Toro Rosso use a performance clause in their contract to leave Renault and move over as well.

2) Gene Haas' entry gains traction, and the support of Ford, who like the idea of an American team, and convince him to use Cosworth power. As the FIA never closed the thirteenth entry, they take Colin Killed' bid as well, and they use Cosworth engines as well.

But both of these are long shots at best.

 

[aarror]

Am I the only one who sees this as an excellent opportunity for a manufacturer looking to get into F1? You could support development costs in exchange for having your name on the engine (similar to the Ilmor engines in Indycar being branded as Chevy). Only problem is that there aren't really any manufacturers looking to get into F1, after Hyundai went to WRC instead.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Secondly, Cosworth would not return to Formula 1 without a customer in mind, but everyone is already taken.

I'm going to do exactly what you hate... but I heard the same thing from a team member this evening.

I also heard that last year's TR chassis might be modified to run the engine as part of the extra testing that Pirelli are just about to be granted.

Might all be bulwarks of course, this isn't cast-iron

EDIT: Don't forget that Cosworth and Williams are making a lot of money together OUT of the sport, it wouldn't be surprising to see them come back together.

@prisonermonkeys , I can't see Ford and Cosworth being involved together in anything since the debacle over the Escort Cosworth? Ford certainly are unlikely to be interested in F1 again either, as a "budget" brand it was a strange place for them anyway.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Williams are so happy with Mercedes that they signed a multi-year deal with them.

As for the suggestion that Pirelli would use a Toro Rosso chassis, I would not be surprised if it was trye - Red Bull would do anything to get their hands on the data.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Well, the team formerly known as Jordan (Force India) have had Cosworth power in the past, in fact taking Cosworths last F1 win. Wouldn't be entirely out of the question. If I am not mistaken the Force India Mercedes partnership was a 5 year deal signed at the end of 2008 commencing with the 2009 season so unless another deal has happened beyond this year then FI could be a candidate for the Cosworth power plant.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Absolutely, that's what makes the rumour so compelling... but then good rumours have good info, so I really don't know.

Red Bull were so happy that they signed with Renault until 2018, it seems that in F1 any contract can be sunk if you sit enough lawyers on it, so who knows?

@MildAshers That's a good point too. I'd presumed that FIF1 would go down the Honda route with McLaren at that point, but Cosworth (if they ARE coming back to F1) might be a good partner. The only difficulty is that Cosworth's last F1 showing was hardly covered with glory.

 

[MagpieRacer]

No but they were in back marker cars with mediocre budgets, FIF1 can make good cars and have done for a few season now. Plus when Williams had them recently they were updated versions of the 2006 unit. Perhaps slightly behind the more up to date engines?

 

[TenEightyOne]

No but they were in back marker cars with mediocre budgets, FIF1 can make good cars and have done for a few season now.

I'm not sure, they didn't produce very efficient downforce and only really performed well at the tracks where less downforce and a better engine (eg the Merc) were required. That said, they were still in a league above the Cosworth-powered cars.

It would be interesting to know what the Cosworth lump might have been able to do with the attentions of a better team...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If Cosworth want to make a meaningful mark on the sport, they would need to power a team capable of scoring points on merit.

Red Bull would be the most-likely candidate if Renault cannot sort out their engine. But they would have to commit to Cosworth soon, because there is no way Cosworth would start developing an engine without a customer - look what happened to PURE. It might be in their interests to have Toro Rosso move to Cosworth power in 2015 for a potential switch themselves in 2016.

Lotus have Renault power as well, and the deal they signed reportedly lasts for a few years. But the team has been trying to secure new investors - and possibly new owners - which could facilitate a change in engine. But Cosworth would probably be fighting with Honda for the team's services, and given that Honda are already committed to Formula 1, and Gerard Lopez has reportedly been looking to Asia, Cosworth will probably face stiff competition.

Caterham are another Renault team, and have a tie-in with Alpine, a brand run by Renault. They parted ways with Cosworth because they were not happy with the CA2010, so it may take some convincing to get them back - but if they lose to Marussia again, they may be persuaded back.

Sauber are another possibility, depending on where the money is coming from. They use Ferrari because they like Ferrari, but may change if they like Cosworth more. Sauber are probably the most straightforward team when it comes to an engine switch, but I would expect Ferrari to fight for them. Marussia may move back, because they were forced to switch to Ferrari, and Cosworth power their road cars. But I think Cosworth will want (and need) a bigger fish if they can get it.

Force India have changed in the past, but with McLaren moving to Honda, they stand to become Mercedes' B-team, and I doubt they will give that up. Williams may out-perform them, but will not accept B-team status. They are said to be extremely happy with the Mercedes deal (and I suspect they are happier than they were with Toyota, Cosworth or Renault), anyway.

Ferrari are Ferrari, and are not going to change. Likewise Mercedes, and McLaren are cosy with Honda.

As for new teams, three applications were received from Gene Haas, Colin Kolles and Zoran Stefanovic. Stefanovic is a joke, but the FIA are said to have been extremely impressed by both Haas and Kolles, and even though they had only intended to take one entry, they are reportedly happy to accept both if the full applications prove to be as impressive. Haas has said he wants Ferrari power, but could easily take Cosworth for a dozen reasons. Kolles is part of a wider bid supported by the Romanian government, and though it was speculated that they may go for Renault power to reinforce the relationship between Renault and Dacia, Renault have made it known for months that they consider three teams to be the ideal number. But if the bid is as strong as has been suggested, Kolles could go with any supplier.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I wonder who Bernie might 'give' a Mercedes engine to when the McLaren supply goes spare?

Here's a random theory; Bernie gets Red Bull the spare Mercedes from next year Great marketing in Germany and Austria...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Suppliers do not have a minimum number of teams that they must provide engines for. Mercedes will be under no pressure to find a fourth team if they cannot or do not want to find one.

Besides, neither team would go for it. Red Bull would want factory support, which Mercedes would not give.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Suppliers do not have a minimum number of teams that they must provide engines for. Mercedes will be under no pressure to find a fourth team if they cannot or do not want to find one.

Yeah, I can't find any support for the idea that I had in my head that engine manufacturers had to supply up to three teams if required to do so (rather like the tyre rule when there were two companies, didn't they each have to agree to supply up to 6 teams if required?).

Even if I'd been right it really was a daft idea, just rattling it around

 

[prisonermonkeys]

There used to be a maximum number of teams that a manufacturer could supply, which was intended to stop manufacturers from supplying as many teams as possible, and then using those numbers to influence the rules, but it has since been dropped.

 

[Furinkazen]

http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.co...-seeks-return-to-indycar-possible-one-for-f1/

News just in

 

[TenEightyOne]

There used to be a maximum number of teams that a manufacturer could supply, which was intended to stop manufacturers from supplying as many teams as possible, and then using those numbers to influence the rules, but it has since been dropped.

There still sort-of is, the 2013 and 2014 both show "up to three teams" for a listed "major car manufacturer" in the Sporting Regs although more can be supplied with permission from the FIA. That wouldn't cover Cosworth, but would, I think, cover the other engines.

No mention of the rules that a supplier could be forced to supply a certain number of teams on demand. I'd completely made that bit up and still have no idea quite how

"A major car manufacturer may not directly or indirectly supply engines for more than three teams of two cars each without the consent of the FIA. "

 

[Tom]

http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.co...-seeks-return-to-indycar-possible-one-for-f1/

News just in

I'm sure you can understand that the site and myself were rather irritated upon finding this report. It's funny how, even though we got the scoop before NBC did that they shared the information with them as opposed to us. I can understand that they're a larger company and all, but if you're willing to give them the low-down, then why should it change for the smaller sites?

 

[Liquid]

Wonder if Renault's troubles will continue, and if they might lose a few customers to Cosworth?

When was the last time Cosworth had a successful engine in F1? 1999?

I'd love them to though, don't get me wrong. New regs, clean slate, they could return and pull a stunner.

 

[MagpieRacer]

When was the last time Cosworth had a successful engine in F1? 1999?

I'd love them to though, don't get me wrong. New regs, clean slate, they could return and pull a stunner.

2003 was the last time a Cosworth power car won, albeit in unusual and wet circumstances (Brazil 2003).

 

[Liquid]

Of course. A great race due to its unpredictablity but ironically, after Ford bought Stewart outright Cosworth hasn't been at the front of the grid. Neither as part of the works team nor as a customer engine for Red Bull, Williams, Jordan, Lotus, Hispania or Virgin.

Would be interesting to see them back and whether they can do well. I want Ford to catch up to Ferrari in the engine wins record.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Of course. A great race due to its unpredictablity but ironically, after Ford bought Stewart outright Cosworth hasn't been at the front of the grid. Neither as part of the works team nor as a customer engine for Red Bull, Williams, Jordan, Lotus, Hispania or Virgin.

Would be interesting to see them back and whether they can do well. I want Ford to catch up to Ferrari in the engine wins record.

Would be fantastic. These new F1 engines strike me as a good type of engine for Cosworth, I know all their wins came with the V8 engines they developed, I just have a feeling they can develop a really good engine for these regs.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Well... we know that it exists from this image that was released back in January and we also know that the engine will be used in an 'undisclosed' supercar project.

It's not undisclosed it's common knowledge that it's for jaguar.