Could a Veyron lap faster than a 2006 F1 car round "an average" oval?

[amp88]

I've created this thread to stop further off-topic posts in G.T's new Veyron thread. The original post which started this discussion was live4speed's. He said "The Veyron would beat a Formula 1 car on a typical oval circuit."

I countered with this post and after a few more posts in that topic it still hasn't been resolved yet.

So, anybody have anything to add to the rest of the discussion in the original thread?

I'm just about to PM a mod to see if it's possible to remove all the posts on this topic from the original thread, sp they may or may not appear in this thread.

 

[Ev0]

It would depend on the circuit. Ovals with large radius corners (like Daytona, Talladega, and possibly Michigan and Fontana) would probably favor the Veyron, since the Veyron would not have to brake for very long at all, while the F1 car would be running around the track at a fairly constant speed (which would also put incredible strain on the engine since it would always be near max rpm). It just depends on how much faster the Veyron will go on the straights. But as ovals would get smaller, the F1 would get faster, and faster than the Veyron due to the massive difference in grip.

Long story short, Massive ovals = Veyron, anything else = F1 car.

 

[YSSMAN]

I don't think Michigan or California would do the Veyron any good. The tracks are a bit flatter, thus requireing more work from the car to get around the bend. Of course, it is nowhere near as radical as say the Texas/ATL/Lowes tracks (some of my favorites), but I've been to MIS so many times, and I really dont see it suiting the Veyron very well.

 

[Joey D]

Agrees with YSSMAN, MIS is a terriable track for top speed runs.

But really the Veyron is still a joke and I still think it's the most pointless car ever built. All that horsepower and there are a ton of cars that are quicker around the track then it. The power to weight ratio isn't all that stellar in my mind. There are plenty of other super cars out there that'll be just as good if not better. Give me a Koneigsegg CCR and we will call it a day.

 

[Tornado]

Hell, in my eyes the CCR is also a stupid piece of crap. Building cars for top speed alone is stupid. At least the Bugatti is a status car. Give me a McLaren F1 or Saleen S7 any day. At least they can both run very close to the CCR and they weren't even designed to do so.

 

[Joey D]

True enough, but I think (if I had the money) I'd buy a CCR just because it has the coolest doors I've ever seen.

But really these cars are all pretty pointless. And a Bugatti is not a status car...a Maybach is a status car. A Veyron is like a Nike shoe, not the best thing out there, over priced, and probably wears out very quickly.

 

[opendriver]

The F1 car would be at a major dissadvantage at say talledaga(sp?) because of the bump and whatnot. It also depends on the turn sizes and straighs. the F1 has a lot of downforce the slows it down. But then again it can drive upside down in a tunnel if it wanted. Since the veron is a roadcar and it probably on Z rated tires, it would suffer greatly for syntrifugal force on an oval due to its lack of downforce.

All in all I think the F1 would kick a$$ and beat the veron around a oval because of the speed consistancey and downforce.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, when Jay Leno tried to break some record at Talledega in a Porsche Carrera GT, the most he could muster was 198MPH...

A few years ago, Rusty Wallace ran his Dodge Intrepid NEXTEL Cup (then Winston Cup) car at Talledega without a restrictor plate and nearly hit 230MPH without a problem... I don't see why an F1 car couldnt perform similarly, but I don't know if a Veyron would ever touch those speeds.

The only track that I know of that is capable of getting the Veyron up to speed is VW's test track outside of Wolfsbug, Germany. There, the track is right around six miles long, with three mile long front and back straights. Only there did C. Cerse from Car and Driver hit the limiter on the Veyron, but only for a little more than a mile or so on the back straight, and then he had to immediately let off for the oncomming corner.

 

[amp88]

Well, when Jay Leno tried to break some record at Talledega in a Porsche Carrera GT, the most he could muster was 198MPH...

198mph top speed? Do you know what its lap time or average lap speed was?

Say for a moment that the F1 car maintains a constant 200mph (through the turns and on the straights). Also, say my assumption earlier that the Veyron can corner at a maximum of 125mph is correct. In order for the Veyron to even start catching the F1 car it has to accelerate from 125 to 200mph out of every corner.

In the video G.T links to in his original thread, the driver says the Veyron can hit 125mph from a standing start in 7.3 seconds and 190mph from a standing start in 16.7 seconds. So, it takes 9.4 seconds to go from 125mph to 190mph (call it 10 seconds to go from 125mph to 200mph, although in reality it would probably be a bit longer). The Veyron is losing ground to the F1 car for 10 seconds out of every corner. Then we come on to braking. The Veyron has to slow from its top speed on the straight (who knows what speed it'll hit? 220/230mph perhaps?) down to its 125mph cornering speed. I can't find any braking information on the Veyron except from braking to a standstill, but I'd happily accept any information people can provide. As a guess, let's say it takes 4 seconds to slow from its top speed on the straight back to 125mph. That's another 4 seconds wasted (although, of course, some of the time in braking will be spent at a higher speed than the 200mph of the F1 car, but it'll be marginal compared to the time spent braking below 200mph).

With the Veyron losing so much time in the corners, accelerating and braking, I honestly can't see how this race is even going to be close at all. The time the Veyron would spend above the speed of the F1 car is going to be pretty marginal in terms of total lap time, so how's it going to make up all the lost time?

edit: If it takes the Veyron 10 seconds to get from 125mph to 200mph, its average acceleration over that period of time is 3.6 m/s/s. In order to accelerate from 125mph to 200mph the Veyron takes 717.85 metres (approximately). So, the Veyron has to make up 718 or more metres in every straight just to catch up with the F1 car.

 

[Kylehnat]

ChampCars a few years ago would average 240 mph around tracks like Michigan and California. (F1 engineers could surely come up with a comparable setup). Methinks the Veyron is a wee bit too chubby (and dare I say sluggish) to accomplish that.

 

[G.T]

We have to keep in mind here that the Veyron is limited to 220mph on its normal settings. You have to instert a key to lower the downforce of the car, thus making it able to reach it's top speed. Bugatti says because there is so much less downforce from doing this, cornering in it isn't a good idea, the car could flip over. So very high speed circuits could be out of the question here, unless you modify the car.

 

[amp88]

We have to keep in mind here that the Veyron is limited to 220mph on its normal settings. You have to instert a key to lower the downforce of the car, thus making it able to reach it's top speed. Bugatti says because there is so much less downforce from doing this, cornering in it isn't a good idea, the car could flip over. So very high speed circuits could be out of the question here, unless you modify the car.

Good point. Also, the acceleration figures would almost certainly have been done in the low downforce mode, so in handling mode it won't be able to accelerate as quickly (especially above 150mph, where the drag becomes a serious factor).

As I calculated above, the Veyron would lose 717 metres per corner on acceleration time behind the F1 car. If the Veyron was travelling at the top speed in normal mode (220mph according to G.T), it'd take approximately 80 seconds to make up the 717 metres it lost to the F1 car (travelling at a constant 200mph). Even at the Veyron's restricted maximum speed (in the low downforce mode, not the handling mode) of 253mph, it'd take approximately 30 seconds.

Plus, that's not including the time lost in the actual corner (or in braking for the corner).

 

[ferrari_chris]

... Then we come on to braking. The Veyron has to slow from its top speed on the straight (who knows what speed it'll hit? 220/230mph perhaps?) down to its 125mph cornering speed. I can't find any braking information on the Veyron except from braking to a standstill, but I'd happily accept any information people can provide. ...

Motor Magazine has this:

100km/h to 0km/h: 2.3secs
400km/h to 0km/h: 9.8secs (450metres)

Also:

Just so you understand the magnitude of that statement, at 400km/h the thing's travelling at 111 metres per second. The brakes (400mm carbon-cermic jobs at the front with eight-piston calipers, six at the rear) get hot, unquestionably, but you can only tell that by the added noise they make.

I also found some more information on V-Max mode:

It sets the front ride-height to 65mm and the rear to 70mm, closes diffuser flaps near the front wheels and the rear spoiler sinks in to be flush with the body. The rear wing closes down to just 2degrees, giving a mere 40kg of downforce on the rear.

Basically, cornering in V-Max mode is a no-no...

The top-speed attainable in handling mode is down to 375km/h.

 

[Dave A]

We have to keep in mind here that the Veyron is limited to 220mph on its normal settings. You have to instert a key to lower the downforce of the car, thus making it able to reach it's top speed. Bugatti says because there is so much less downforce from doing this, cornering in it isn't a good idea, the car could flip over. So very high speed circuits could be out of the question here, unless you modify the car.

It's top speed is 234mph in handling mode, not 220mph. I also think that on a superspeedway they Veyron could take the corners a lot faster than 225mph. F1 car's are designed to top out at around 210-220mph, you can modify them to go faster, in theory a hell of a lot faster by changing a couple of parts and so on, but then your changing the car, it has to remain an F1 car, the aerodynamics have to meet F1 rules and so on. In relation to my mention in the first post, I did mention this in the other thread but it would seem my original comment was wrong because the track in question was Talledega which isn't an average speedway, from what I've read online about it, it's one of the fastest ones which would favour the Veyron more than a track like Bristol which forgive me if I'm wrong I don't know my speedway's too well, is a smaller oval.

 

[Famine]

And a Bugatti is not a status car...

A-haha... A-hahahahahaha...

Would you like to tell me what the most expensive car ever sold was?

 

[G.T]

It's top speed is 234mph in handling mode, not 220mph.

Whoops, not my bad. Blame evo magazine.

 

[McLaren]

True, but you can't take a Veyron over 234Mph on the oval.

Magazines reported that if the wheel moves to a certain degree in "top speed" mode, the car will return to handling mode and slow down.

 

[Joey D]

A-haha... A-hahahahahaha...

Would you like to tell me what the most expensive car ever sold was?

Seriously if I say someone driving a Veyron I would think they are a complete moron. Once again, they are like Nike shoes.

 

[Dave A]

True, but you can't take a Veyron over 234Mph on the oval.

Magazines reported that if the wheel moves to a certain degree in "top speed" mode, the car will return to handling mode and slow down.

I've never read that, and Clarkson was driving round motoray bends in one with it being in V-Max mode when he test drove the Veyron, it's when you apply the brakes. Maybe if it turns sharp, but it's not slight movements or anything like that, you can drive one down a motorway anyway.

 

[Poverty]

True enough, but I think (if I had the money) I'd buy a CCR just because it has the coolest doors I've ever seen.

But really these cars are all pretty pointless. And a Bugatti is not a status car...a Maybach is a status car. A Veyron is like a Nike shoe, not the best thing out there, over priced, and probably wears out very quickly.

 

[Joey D]

You realize if you disagree with someone you really should give a reason why. I grow tired of your constant need to piss me off.

 

[Poverty]

^^

ZEE OH SIKS>Veyron

right?

 

[Dave A]

True enough, but I think (if I had the money) I'd buy a CCR just because it has the coolest doors I've ever seen.

But really these cars are all pretty pointless. And a Bugatti is not a status car...a Maybach is a status car. A Veyron is like a Nike shoe, not the best thing out there, over priced, and probably wears out very quickly.

If the Veyron is pointless, so is the Z06, both go over the speed limit and neither offers as much space as a hatchback. I can't think of a more appropriate term for the Veyron than to call it a status car. Also, unlike the Nike shoe, the Veyron does many things better than it's rivals, it's faster, it can corner like stink according to all the reviews I've read and seen on TV, it's got more luxury and comfort than anything else in it's class, oh wait, there is nothing else in it's class, everything else is below it. It's a technological masterpiece.

 

[McLaren]

I've never read that, and Clarkson was driving round motoray bends in one with it being in V-Max mode when he test drove the Veyron, it's when you apply the brakes. Maybe if it turns sharp, but it's not slight movements or anything like that, you can drive one down a motorway anyway.

Yeah, I think if you touched the brakes it would do that.
I read it in the Car and Driver test.

 

[daan]

F1 car's are designed to top out at around 210-220mph,

The F1 record at Monza is 229mph. They'll be able to run less wing at a super speedway, so 240 average lap should be attainable (Honda have achieved 265mph with their speed record car which still conforms to the 2005 F1 regulations). The Veyron can do 253mph but it won't be able to corner at that speed.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, the question then becomes:

1) Where are you doing it? Only at VW's test track (I belive) will the Veyron hit to speed (I don't think Ford's proving ground would let that happen even). Talledega would be the only US oval that would be able to let those speeds happen, but that brings me to my next thing...

2) What kind of weather are you looking for? Talledega is incredibly hot in the summer, and it is also known for the wind that blows through the track. I don't know a whole lot about the track in Germany other than it isnt too far from Wolfsbug, and is somewhat protected by the trees that surround it to stop the wind. I would presume the weather in Germany may be better suited to high-speed driving for a good part of the year, and it would probably be more accessable by both Bugatti and F1 for the race.

3) Whos driving? Whoever is going to be racing the two, they need to have some balls to keep it above 200MPH on a consistant basis, and if they are exceeding 220+, or up to 265 as someone pointed out for Honda, big balls. The only sport I know of the keeps the speeds north of 200MPH the entire time is the IRL, so maybe Danica Patrick needs to jump in the seat?

 

[Dave A]

The F1 record at Monza is 229mph. They'll be able to run less wing at a super speedway, so 240 average lap should be attainable (Honda have achieved 265mph with their speed record car which still conforms to the 2005 F1 regulations). The Veyron can do 253mph but it won't be able to corner at that speed.

That's not a current spec F1 car though that hit 229 at Monza, that's what the original comparison was between anyway, though if an F1 car was built to do 265mph which I never knew they did top speed tests like that on them, I don't see how anything could touch it.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

dont see a point to this as the veyron has NEVER been OFFICALLY timed round any track yet so noone except VW knows how fast it is round a track so therefore noone can claim ether it is or is not fast than an f1 car round a track

 

[Kylehnat]

dont see a point to this as the veyron has NEVER been OFFICALLY timed round any track yet so noone except VW knows how fast it is round a track so therefore noone can claim ether it is or is not fast than an f1 car round a track

That is the point of this thread. If this comparison had already happened in real life, we'd have our answer, and there would be no need for a thread about it.

Speculating is most of the fun

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

That is the point of this thread. If this comparison had already happened in real life, we'd have our answer, and there would be no need for a thread about it.

Speculating is most of the fun

fair enough but it isnt in a word a "fair comparasion",you are compareing a road car to a race car,thats like street racing a build mustang with a blower,cams,N20 against say a stock c6 z06 then getting all excited is the mustang wins.