Coulthard Beats GT Gamers!

[Famine]

It doesn't have to be perfect but the current one is just not sufficient for a game trying to be a simulator.

It is sufficient for a game though. So long as the majority of players use a plastic boomerang to control it, it's not going to be a driving simulator - never mind the other issues.

Of the nine tyre grades we have, one was a bit too good compared to the real one and one was a bit too crap compared to the real one. Close enough.


(I agree that the wear rates are a bit screwy though - not applicable to this hotlap situation, but I agree)

 

[Vince_Fiero]

One of the guests (comment was he was driving 2min laps) stated during the event that the SLS in real life felt more stable then what he experienced in GT5.

First, this man probably had no simulation experience.
Second, the tires are a bit more slippery as analyzed by Famine.
Third, the missing feeling of the weight transfer might have made his reactions slow.

Although I believe this was a failure for the simulation/reality argument, the above is very logical.

For the simulation/reality argument you need to show that simulation techniques can be used in real life, not more.
Real time racing was fun, but you noticed that there are some issues getting the simulation close enough.

 

[Cosbuster]

It is sufficient for a game though. So long as the majority of players use a plastic boomerang to control it, it's not going to be a driving simulator - never mind the other issues.

Of the nine tyre grades we have, one was a bit too good compared to the real one and one was a bit too crap compared to the real one. Close enough.


(I agree that the wear rates are a bit screwy though - not applicable to this hotlap situation, but I agree)

Which is why I believe each car's stock tyres should be completely seperate from the existing grades. I understand what you're trying to say but seeing a good driving model almost going to waste because of a crappy tyre model is infuriating.

 

[Famine]

Hmmnmmnmmhmm yes and no.

The problem is that, in reality at least, any given tyre only behaves in a given manner in a given application - and, even worse, they only behave in that manner on a given axle. Dirty example, Avon ZZ3s on the back of an MX-5 are almost as good as Eagle F1 GSD3s in the dry and not quite as good in the wet, but Avon ZZ3s on the front of an MX-5 are terrible. You might then find that an upgrade on one car is a downgrade on another - not to mention how to represent it when buying new tyres for a car that has stock tyres completely separate from the new tyre grades - and then you'll find the GT5 forums filled with the usual complaints about buying things making one car crap but fine on another. You'd be looking at a massively complex representation of tyres too - and that'd be one hell of an update

I'm sure there's a sensible solution, but for now, close enough will do. Besides, if Coulthard had been obliterated it wouldn't have been good TV and a perfect simulation will always end with the very good virtual driver being better than the best real one.

 

[Darren.]

Comfort Softs are designed for beginners to GT5, as such they are best suited to Low Powered cars like an MX-5 Miata. In the seasonal and Live race, they stuck those tyres onto a 6.2 Litre V8 supercar. They don't offer as much grip as the Cars standard set of Tyres (Sport Hard as said by Famine). The Sport hards offer more grip, only thing is that they degrade fairly quickly (unless you've got TC on). The Comfort Softs when outfitted to a V8 supercar, makes you feel like you're trying to drive a car on an ice rink in Alaska, its INSANE! I was practiceing, Same car on Racing Soft and I clocked in a 1.13.462 (Lot of Jokes to be made there). But as many of us would love to know, is what tyre grade DC was using. 💡 But I don't think GT5s Tyre wear and grade system is complete yet.

It issufficient for a game though. So long as the majority of players use a plastic boomerang to control it, it's not going to be a driving simulator - never mind the other issues.

But, I use a Plastic boomerang! Its called a DS3. Though the controller was originally a boomerang in Prototype phase.

 

[amar212]

Of the nine tyre grades we have, one was a bit too good compared to the real one and one was a bit too crap compared to the real one. Close enough.

One of members of my GTS community is professional racing and rally driver, Croatian rally vice-champion, avid car tester and during his 15-year career he done thousands of laps on racetracks on both streetcars, race cars on any compound or condition imaginable. He is also a very avid gamer too and extremely cautious in his opinions.

His exact quote from our forum after he done this challenge:

Feel of Comfort Soft compound on this car is phenomenal. This is the most convincing physics I have ever virtually driven anywhere.

 

[Whitestar]

But as many of us would love to know, is what tyre grade DC was using.

Famine mentioned that the stock AMG has Continental ContiSportContact 5P. I suppose he used that then?

 

[Famine]

One of members of my GTS community is professional racing and rally driver, Croatian rally vice-champion, avid car tester and during his 15-year career he done thousands of laps on racetracks on both streetcars, race cars on any compound or condition imaginable. He is also a very avid gamer too and extremely cautious in his opinions.

His exact quote from our forum after he done this challenge:

As I say, never having driven an SLS to compare, I can't speak with any particular authority. But to get the feel, particularly the loading and the transition to slip, of a real MX-5 on Eagle F1 GSD3s I need Sport Hards in GT5 - the Comfort Softs don't seem to load up quite right and they run out of grip too quickly (as in the limit being reached too early) and too sharply (as in the drop-off of grip happening more suddenly). I'd then agree that it's phenomenally close to the real thing. In the case of the SLS, I'll defer to Coulthard and the MBW instructors.


I suppose if nothing else that alone shows that the tyre grades available in GT5 are not consistent with what is required for reality - if he says the SLS feels genuine on Comfort Softs when it comes with Sport Hards in the game and I say the MX-5 feels genuine on Sports Hards when it comes with Comfort Softs in the game, GT5's wrong on both counts

 

[acjy1985]

The 'standard' tyres on the SLS that we drove appeared to be Pirelli P-Zeros, so better than your everyday tyres. I think everybody yesterday had a fantastic time. Well done to Jason and the other 5 who got through to the "having Legard make derogatory comments about you" phase. You all did fantastically well, especially as they made you run on comfort softs after practicing on the default sports hard tyres. Yesterday all 24 of us got to drive a real SLS AMG on the Mercedes-Benz World track and it is an absolutely fantastic machine. It grips and grips and grips. After we had driven it, the instructor hopped into the driving seat and really gave it a workout and the thing still stayed absolutely planted. Under hard braking from 100 down to around 40, there was no 'squirreling' at all. Fantastic day.

 

[chug-a-bug]

Pressure plays a big role, it's not the same to play GT5 from the comforts of your home and sofa and PD's rig while competing versus real people and David Coulthard.
Also, not everyone is used to playing on a wheel.

Coulthard is under pressure too, he has cameras on him and a helicopter chasing him around. Also he has his reputation to maintain, if he'd been beaten by a bunch of GT gamers he'd never live it down. I daresay it's biased subtlely in his favour, I'm sure he'd never have agreed to do it if there was a good chance he'd be made to look a fool of. Essentially it's a publicity stunt at the end of the day, and I daresay it's worked.

 

[nasanu]

Track and environmental conditions come into play also. Also while I am sure the SLS would have been in top condition, real life cars are almost always down on power versus their factory specs which has to be taken into consideration in such comparisons.

But a major factor that nobody seems to recognize is that 'gamers' are a vastly larger talent pool. The number of people on the planet that get to have a serious go at racing are very, very few. Even I from a wealthy country with a very keen interest in racing almost from birth had no opportunity to enter racing. In global terms I say it is very safe to assume that less than .1% of people have the opportunity to pursue a racing career, interested or not. The ability to game on the other hand is incomparably more open as the cost is hundreds of times less.

I highly doubt that say the 10 best drivers based on ultimate potential on the planet are found among employed racing drivers. Statistically it would be highly unlikely that even one of them is found there. F1 drivers are the best of a tiny, tiny talent pool. It should be of no surprise to anyone that the best of a significantly larger talent pool should have the potential surpass their skills.

 

[Cavallo Rosso]

There is no reason to debate the tire issue. Comfort Soft tires are the tires you would get on the SLS when you roll it out of the factory. Sports tires are a bit closer to slicks, with little tread. David Coultard was using factory tires, and so they were comfort softs.

On a side note, did anyone check the leader boards lately? the top lap time was done by a person who had drivers aids enabled. And...he used a Dual Shock !

 

[coaltrickle46]

i went to mercedes benz world on saturday, where the simulators/event is still available as part of the venue, they must have changed something as it was pretty damn easy to beat coulthards 1.16?, first time for me playing gran turismo with pedals and steering wheel and i did a 1.12, i think maybe the tyres arent comfort softs anymore? anyone else had a go?