create and share with the world...

[ZAGGIN]

create and share with the world...



gran turismo is amazing! very few games reach the status of the gran turismo series - it’s a testament to the genius of kazunori yamauchi. his gift is our pleasure for sure. this brings me onto nicely to what I really want to talk about.



as soon as a rumour emerges about "another" gran turismo, the rumour mill works overtime. i'm talkin' 24 fours hours a day, eight days a week! yeah, I said eight. thats what it’s like, yunno... 'and on the eight day god created gran turismo...'. its hard not to get involved in all the frenzy, because deep down we all have ideas how we like to see the next game.



although it’s great talking about the game, wouldn’t it be better if the discussions from this forum could influence features in the game? now don’t all of you start sending thousands of email to sony, that’s not going to work, and it defeats the object of what I am putting forward. sony won’t listen to one man alone, but many together, they might. this is a great discussion forum, but it lacks focus.

it’s often been wondered if sony look through these forums for ideas, well maybe this forum as a collective should try and communicate with sony. I know kazunori yamauchi is open to ideas, take gran turismo 4. there a few parts in the game that are similar to project gotham racing 2. i’m not going to go into them, but we all know what they are. don’t you think thats a good thing? wouldn’t you say? it just goes to prove that good ideas can influence. take it as kazunori yamauchi showing respect to a great game. this forum could influence like that too. if this we had some sort of unified voice don’t you think that sony might listen?



there could be some sort of council that oversees the forums discussions, not like administrators, they are jus there to harass the newbies (only joking!). no, a different set of guys that specialise in a certain area of the game and look for all posts regarding that area. these guys could be voted onto (or off) this council to give every forum member a chance. they could then influence or just catch the vibe and form a list of some of their favourite ideas. if every guy on the council did that then they could all share their ideas, and choose the best. this 'best of the best' list could then be sent to sony as some sort of official document from this forum, remember presentation is everything!

Hey! you might think i’m talking rubbish here, but it’s better to try and fail than to never try at all. who knows what we could achieve if we tried. come on! let’s get this forum active! it’s time to change minds! the possibilities are endless. create and share with the world, it’s a beautiful thing baby!

 

[VEXD]

Im moved.

Its about time someone said what we are all thinking when we switch our monitors off.

I believe a dedicated thread with no spam and only constructive posting allowed which is heavily moderated should be started.

The original post above should be the first post, as it is excellent and inspiring, and will explain the entire thread to anyone who cares to read.

With all relevant information gathered and submitted to SONY in the correct format, why shouldnt they take heed?

Of course they read forums like this for information on how to improve.

Lets get to it!

 

[Mike Rotch]

Im moved.

Its about time someone said what we are all thinking when we switch our monitors off.

I believe a dedicated thread with no spam and only constructive posting allowed which is heavily moderated should be started.

The original post above should be the first post, as it is excellent and inspiring, and will explain the entire thread to anyone who cares to read.

With all relevant information gathered and submitted to SONY in the correct format, why shouldnt they take heed?

Of course they read forums like this for information on how to improve.

Lets get to it!

I doubt that SONY is going to listen to a bunch of teenagers and 20 something. I bet they have their own focus groups and researchers that follow comments made on game review sites and magazines.

As for "moderating heavily", a thread dedicated to SONY, us mods have enough on our plate just coping with the volume of activity in the GT4 forum alone; its kind of an low return investment on expended energy. Wouldnt you say?

 

[NK]

I doubt that SONY is going to listen to a bunch of teenagers and 20 something. I bet they have their own focus groups and researchers that follow comments made on game review sites and magazines.

As for "moderating heavily", a thread dedicated to SONY, us mods have enough on our plate just coping with the volume of activity in the GT4 forum alone; its kind of an low return investment on expended energy. Wouldnt you say?

Uhm, as in their main grouping of consumers? Surely, the opportunity to delve into the customers petrol heads would be of significant benefit to developers? If, for example, 98% of a target audience moves in a certain feasible direction it would be tantermount to utter disregard of consumer demand not to take it onboard.

One gets the feeling that the 'work' involved in maintaining such a forum appears to be the only 'downside'...

 

[Mike Rotch]

If someone can get a direct line to someone who counts, that would change the situation. Otherwise the plan would be something like this:

Create detailed thread -> send off to SONY -> thread falls through cracks at SONY because it was directed at the wrong person.

Surely, the opportunity to delve into the customers petrol heads would be of significant benefit to developers?

I bet they have their own focus groups and researchers that follow comments made on game review sites and magazines.

If, for example, 98% of a target audience moves in a certain feasible direction it would be tantermount to utter disregard of consumer demand not to take it onboard

So you are saying 98% of GT4 users visit GTP and would contribute positively, and would agree to the same changes in GT4 or 5?

One gets the feeling that the 'work' involved in maintaining such a forum appears to be the only 'downside'...

Planning does wonders to the ultimate success or failure of an idea.

 

[rsh]

What I read in other forums about GT3 as things that gamers want, are put into GT4. Fuel consumption. Reallife trakcs like Suzuka, Nurburgring and the wanted Le Mans.

Also, a lot of cars that are wanted by the gamers are put back into GT4.

I think that listeing to the gamers is the only way to improve a serie like Gran Turismo. A job well done in this one.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Looking at the RaceSimCentral forums it is possible, but feedback that is given there only concerns niche market games like GTR and Live for Speed. GT4 is a game with a stupendously large fanbase. A forum for feedback would almost be impossible to manage.

There is however a thing that bothers me when it comes to Japanese devs and publishers. There is almost no way for consumers to give feedback whatsoever. In general western companies are much more open towards the consumer. I don't know if it is the language barrier or if it is the way Japanese are doing business, but a lot can be learned from western game devs and publishers when it comes to feedback towards the consumer.

 

[VEXD]

As for "moderating heavily", a thread dedicated to SONY, us mods have enough on our plate just coping with the volume of activity in the GT4 forum alone

Doesnt that tell you something?

Arent there enough voices on here to get someones attention?

Im slightly dissappointed that the only response we got from a moderator was a negative one.

Perhaps im being naive, but i know there are people older than 20 something on here, im one of them, and i believe that the only way these games are improved upon is by gaining knowledge from sources such as this one.

Thats why "games testers" are employed isnt it? So that they can say, "no, i dont like that, erm... that doesnt work, erm change that bit to red i cant see the penguins if its white" etc etc
How will they learn if we dont tell them.
Surely they cant rely on their own hunches all the time?

There simply has to be very important members of the industry reading info from sources like this one in order that games develop, and why oh why should we consider that we are soooooo small and soooooo insignificant that we wont be heard.

This is the biggest and best GT resource on the net. isnt it?

 

[Liquid Li0n]

Yes it's all true what you say here. It's a good thread but SONY would never read it. I think they even read japanse forums so why this one.

About Live For Speed you said, It's easy to contact them. There are only 3 guys making the game and you can email directly to them and say what you want. And there is only one forum (you can call it official) from LFS and that is @ RaceSimCentral and the developers of the game post and read there as well as you. That is just great! And I know how live for speed works. I was teamleader of the biggest Belgian LFS team in Belgium(but thats off topic).
But the way you can say what you want in LFS will never be possible with GT4. First off all PD has their own tester+it's almost impossible to contact a PD man! There are a lot of wishlist-threads and some points on the wishlist from GT3/GT4 are the same we hear now AGAIN for GT5.

I just wondering what GT5 will bring but I already now that GT4 is going to be great
and Live For Speed S2 aswell (P.S.: Only for PC that is)

 

[Solid Lifters]

Sony wont, but I'm sure PD have people who visit here. In fact, Jordan has been contacted by them before, so they know this place exists. I'm also sure they go through various threads that interest them and read what people have to say. Think about it, if you made a popular game, and there were several websites dedicated to your game, wouldn't you go to the most popular one and read what people think? I know I would. 👍

 

[S31Ender]

I was an admin on the STGC forums for a while and I've had my own automotive boards until last year, so I've had some exp.
Create the thread and set me up as it's moderator. What do you have to lose?
(by the way, STGC did exactly what we are proposing, and we drew the attention of not only the programmers from Taldren and Activision but also the attention of Harry Lang, who is the game developement Public Relations officer for Paramount.)

 

[RedOak]

Just a quick note concerning "game testers" ... their job is not to tell the dev. team if they like what they see, they are there to flag bugs related to the program.

"Play test" is the term you are looking for. PLay testers are gamers hired for a short period of time to try the game and give comments. Then those comments are piled up and analyzed... you know the rest.

And just as a quick note... yes Game testers (who spend about a year on a game) should know a lot about the subject and be able to give very constructive comments on the game since they play the thing 24h/7h, but unfortunatly, the Dev. team rarely listens. That's a fact from all over America. If its the same in Japan, no idea.

As for People from the Dev. Team surfing forums, as i said before, i'm sure there are SONY employes and PD employes surfing this forum, amongts others. And i'll let you guys know on something else... the more *****ing there is on a forum, less traffic there will be from dev. teams.

A nice, well-written, 100% constructive and ***** or subjective free letter to the PD might punch in, else it'll go on a wall for everyone to laugh at for a month.

Cheers,

 

[Rport03]

This is my take on all this.

As to what was originally posted in the first post, "We choose a council (sp) to choose the best ideas" Well right there thats a bad statement because whos going to be in this little circle? You know your going to have many people wanting to be a part of that and how will you choose?

ANother issue will be is by making thread like ive seen on many board such as this one, people will just keep asking for the same thing over and over and over and all they'll say is, make the gameplay better... well thats not a good answer you need to be specific and for Sony to listen people have to write out specific requests like what you want to request and how would you do it or what to add etc.. You'll need a good full time staff to organize that.

Also many people have a tendensy (sp) to start fights with eachother and thenwe'll go through page after page with people bickering over something that doesnt really help Sont or PD. We need people to get right to the point. We need to not let people create there own threads and just make specific threads for diffrent things such as, Cars wanted in game, Options in GT Auto, Options in Tuning cars, etc.. then you post your comments in there, this way its organized and you wont have 20 people making new threads over the exact same tihng over and over either that or have it so newbies cant make new threads and only verterns who know the rules and come here all the time be able to make them.

In order for this thing to go through you need to clean up this board and a/or the new section for GT5 when it comes around . All I can say is if the moderators etc.. dont make changes soon any new section you create will turn out like this GT4 section with people making new threads about the same thing so people have to dig through pages to find the thread they want to go through and if not they'll make yet ANOTHER thread!

All in all you need to change a lot of things here in order for this to go through, if you dont then you wont get a nice organized forum, and with thread after thread about the same thing will only turn them off not make them sit and go through them all. Hopefully this made any sense.

 

[nicefrog]

Having seen how active the head guys at Valve were on alot of the Half life 2 forums leading up to and after the realise of the game, I'd be amazed if this forum isn't one of the first places Polophony vist in the morning

 

[softballbryan]

Though I never post anything, I am always on here reading others posts. I am 32 and my buddy (32) introduced me to GT2 long ago. I like the idea but it would be hard to manage a task like the one proposed. My someone smarter then myself can think of a way to do it....

Bryan M

 

[softballbryan]

My = If

 

[Samelborp]

I doubt that SONY is going to listen to a bunch of teenagers and 20 something.

How about a bunch of angry 36 something?

just joking

 

[Omologato]

I think it's a great idea. Get a group of guys together, start a thread, and have them moderate it. I think we have alot of mature gamers here with great opinions. We'd have a nice, informed thread not containing " OH MAN I WISH THEY INCLUDED THIS CAR AND THAT CAR AND THIS CAR WITH 89344849084-84948HP!" posts, but rather a collection of great ideas. It's worth a shot. What exactly do we have to lose? GT5 is open game.

 

[Jay]

Sony wont, but I'm sure PD have people who visit here. In fact, Jordan has been contacted by them before

I remember hearing something about that, what did they contact Jordan for again?

 

[TheCracker]

PD have never shown any evidance of listening to what GT fans want from the game. They have an idea of which direction they want to take the game, and will follow this path with very little deviation. They will, unfortunatly, take more notice of what games like Forza or Enthusia can offer over and above the GT experiance than they will the wishes of GT fans - they know we will all buy the game anyway.

Sorry to sound negative, but after 6 different GT games you can clearly see PD's direction - and how much of it is actually influenced by the fans desires.

 

[Omologato]

PD have never shown any evidance of listening to what GT fans want from the game. They have an idea of which direction they want to take the game, and will follow this path with very little deviation. They will, unfortunatly, take more notice of what games like Forza or Enthusia can offer over and above the GT experiance than they will the wishes of GT fans - they know we will all buy the game anyway.

Sorry to sound negative, but after 6 different GT games you can clearly see PD's direction - and how much of it is actually influenced by the fans desires.

Still, what do we have to lose by trying?

 

[NK]

Mike, I appear to have inadvertently touched a nerve. Your retort felt a tad on the defensive side and I'd just like to take the opportunity to clarify.

Firstly, I see a significant difference between "their own focus groups" and "the customer's [consumer's] petrol heads".

At the time of writing, I wished to be concise so I opted not to point out the following: is it not a credable statement to say that 'some' magazines would shout the praises of high ranking players in the games industry purely to 'stay in with the in-crowd'? As in, is it not the case that some magazines have a tendancy to overrate games, for the wrong reasons. Futhermore, 'focus groups' don't always
"focus". They're paid a nominal sum to give an opinion, whether that's educated or not, whereas we (the consumers) have a vested interest in how this genre of game evolves.

My point at this stage was to say that focus groups and actual customers are not the same thing.

I agree completely that a dedicated forum that was tightly controlled would a) be a pain to administer and b) would be of significant benefit if a solid line of contact with the appropreate person/department was achieved.

It appears that you misunderstood my example, in its entirety.

To reitterate, "If, for example...". In point of fact, I was making an 'example'. I was not saying "98% of GT4 users visit GTP and would contribute positively, and would agree to the same changes in GT4 or 5?" An unequivocal transmogrification of the actual quoted point.

I'm afraid that I need the dunce's cap for your final note. "Planning does wonders to the ultimate success or failure of an idea." And water is wet. What was your point?

I can understand that the Mods can have a hard time of it, however, unless I'm greatly mistaken, a red hot poker isn't prodded in your nether regions to become a Mod, nor to remain one.

Oh, and Vexd, I agree completely. I left the twenty somethings realm a number of Summers ago, and whilst I'm not quite as deliriously anticipative as I was for my Japanese copy of GT1 to arrive, I am looking forward to far too many hours of enjoyable gaming when GT4 eventually pops through the letterbox.

Finally, having seen a few more comments on this topic, I thought I'd share some embryonic ideas. Take note Mods, these are 'ideas'.

Saying that PD/Sony do or don't look on this site for feedback/endless amusement is relatively pointless, on both sides of the fence as we simply don't know the answer.

I know I speak for the majority here that Jordan's original vision has proved a great success. Heart felt congrats go out in his general direction, and to the countless other who make this site what it is; an informative place of mutual congress.

With that in mind, there is some kudos attached to GTP and I for one think that if Jordan, or an appropreate surrigate of similar moral fortitude agreed to contact PD (once some structure to the proposal had been bashed out) we could be onto something productive. Worst case scenario is they say no thanks.

In an attempt to limit the work the Mods would have, maybe this new forum could be invitation only? This could be a method in avoiding the unnecessary banter that some members employ.

Perhaps a 'thought of the week' kinda forum would work. Only available for one week and maybe filtered member access. The information collated could be truncated to the more poignant parts and sent off for PD's perusal.

My thanks for your time.

 

[ZAGGIN]

now will you all stop with thse negative vibes! as i see it, sony may or may not look through this forum - we just dont know. it would be better if we presented the good ideas to them. sony dont want to do endless searches and read through every thread, they want the ideas presented to them in an easily readable manner. they still might not take any notice, but you never know. there is definately no harm in trying, because we really do have nothing to lose. just think though, wouldnt it be great to see this forum listed in the special thanks section of the next gran turismo?
i say to the doubters - believe! give it a chance to fail at least. dont just dismiss this idea without giving it a try. between us all, we could influence someone at sony.

as for delivery of the information, i dont think that a thread in this forum would be read by sony, we would have to take it to direct to sony (ie email it to them) in pdf form perhaps? you always get hit by the one you never see coming!
the information is going to have to be organised too, its no good putting i would like to see this or that. each idea has to be well thought out and presented in a professional manner. this forum is renowned for the depth it can get into when talking about certain subjects, so why not tranaslate that depth into a seriously written document? if you want to see a car in the game, explain why? if you want a simulated fuel management system explain why.
if you cast you mind back to when the original gran turismo was released, im sure you can remember the thick little book that accompanied the game. it was written for a purpose - to try and put accross the complexity of gran turismo. in the end, it turned out to be an excellent strategy guide to the game. kazunori yamauchi is obviously pasionate about driving and trying to capture its essence in video form, so to him the book, was an important addition. i remember reading it for the first time and thinking that a lot of time and thought had gone into the getting the game right. if we created some sort of document with the same thought put into it, its bound to be noticed. we have to some how try and harness our passion and knowledge and use it as a tool to influence.

rport03 has rightly pointed out that any thread that was posted could be in danger of losing it focus with many miscellaneous threads, but maybe there is an answer. how about a small forum that can be read by every member, but only the council members can post and edit threads? the forum could be used to discuss the ideas that have been spotted in any of the other forums.

surely our collective knowledge of gran turismo must ammount to more than just this forum?

 

[RedOak]

this is going nowhere... as predicted.

 

[Solid Lifters]

I remember hearing something about that, what did they contact Jordan for again?

It was about that 770 fake car list. They wanted it taken down, or something, because it was confusing people. Some actually thought it was the car list for GT4. Sony, and PD, didn't like that. So, Jordan took it down.

I think a website with a thread for contributing ideas for PD can exist. Just not at this website. But we still try nonetheless.

 

[Omologato]

I still say it's worth a shot.

 

[VEXD]

this is going nowhere... as predicted.

This is not required here. As Stated.

What we need are good ideas, as i feel this thread has produced so far.
However some slightly negative energy will be required to keep our feet on the ground.

Then we need someone who understands the limits/capabilities of these threads and their moderation (ie a moderator) to think about the best way to harness the good from the bad and make posting intelligence a simple task and distributing excrement a very difficult one.

With the right structures in place it shouldnt take very much time at all to collate the information we want for the first attack on PD/SONY/KY. Once we have their attention and they realise our seriousness, its a case of maintaining our dignity and consistently sending useful information to the providers of our fun.

No harm in trying.

"we have to some how try and harness our passion and knowledge and use it as a tool to influence."

amen.

"there is some kudos attached to GTP"

We all feel bonded by our love for the game and our inherrent knowledge and insatiable desire to pass our wisdom onto others who havent woken up yet.
Thats why we all come here day after day and answer the threads where people ask how to win a car or beat the lap time etc etc even though we've said it all before in some other thread, because we want others to share the pleasurable experiences of the game like we have.

Here is a community with a chance to affect the next instalment, maybe only in some tiny way, but even if it was a mention in the back of the manual, think about how many millions of manuals there would be in the world by 2007?

Wouldnt it be nice to be part of that?

This just takes some thought, and structure.

PD is a company run by humans.
KY is human.
SONY is populated by HUMANS.

Theyre only humans.

They all have eyes and ears too.

Lets speak to them.

"Worst case scenario is they say no thanks."

Exactly.

"Perhaps a 'thought of the week' kinda forum would work. Only available for one week and maybe filtered member access. The information collated could be truncated to the more poignant parts and sent off for PD's perusal."
Inspiration!

More of the same please.

I dont know how the thread should be structured, i dont understand the limits, hell i can only just type!, but i know there are those of you out there that do, and i for one will follow the rules you state.

👍 💡 👍

 

[NK]

^ Bravo!

 

[Liquid Li0n]

nice

 

[VEXD]

So, how does one contact Jordan?

It would be nice to get some input from the Boss himself as to what he thinx of this thread.

Sir?

Your comments?