CSR Elite getting weaker?

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Kretz & RacerXX,

I am also getting a slight electrical burning smell emitting from the right side after +-30 minutes of heavy use. Could this be a sign the motors are starting to go? This is even with the attached PC fan going full blast!
 
AGP5000
And, same here. They are not loud, just noticeable. I do not know if it is the beginning of failure, or just an aging thing...
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if you can hear a faint squelling or buzzing sound when holding the wheel in a turned state it is the motors that are starting to burn up.
this sound is caused by the carbon brushes burning them selves to the commutator poles.
it is a question of time before they fail.:ouch:
 
novadave
if you can hear a faint squelling or buzzing sound when holding the wheel in a turned state it is the motors that are starting to burn up.
this sound is caused by the carbon brushes burning them selves to the commutator poles.
it is a question of time before they fail.:ouch:
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I kinda assumed so, and was trying to tell myself I finally had a Flawless Fanatec product. Lone behold, it seems the peril continues. :ouch: :grumpy: :indiff: :confused: :banghead:

I will email Johannes over at support as I have dealt with him several times in the past...... I will report with all follow-up in the customer service thread.

If someone is close or near Bloomsburg, PA and can help with a motor replacement, I would greatly appreciate it, as this is what I will likely be offered! I could do it myself, and would like a more mechanically inclined set of eyes and hands there, to limit ANY issue after replacement. My preference is for a new base obviously. We will see how it shakes out.
 
AGP5000
I kinda assumed so, and was trying to tell myself I finally had a Flawless Fanatec product. Lone behold, it seems the peril continues. :ouch: :grumpy: :indiff: :confused: :banghead:

I will email Johannes over at support as I have dealt with him several times in the past...... I will report with all follow-up in the customer service thread.

If someone is close or near Bloomsburg, PA and can help with a motor replacement, I would greatly appreciate it, as this is what I will likely be offered! I could do it myself, and would like a more mechanically inclined set of eyes and hands there, to limit ANY issue after replacement. My preference is for a new base obviously. We will see how it shakes out.
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replacing the motors is not difficult - just be sure to check the wire placement on the new motors as i have heard that they have made mistakes when soldering the wires to the motor terminals ( reversed ).
take your time and follow your steps as you dissasemble.
think positive - i am sure you can do it:)
as for belt tension it is better to be on the loose side as opposed to too tight.
 
novadave
as for belt tension it is better to be on the loose side as opposed to too tight.
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Thanks Nova. I will do my best, and again, follow up in the support thread.

I feel my belts are right where they need to be. The immersion with the CSW is hands down amazing!:bowdown: I just wish the reliability could match. :irked:
 
if you can hear a faint squelling or buzzing sound when holding the wheel in a turned state it is the motors that are starting to burn up.
this sound is caused by the carbon brushes burning them selves to the commutator poles.
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This squealing/squeaking noise is stick/slip or brush chatter. It can actually be caused by a number of things, including commutator imperfections, comm out-of-round, insulating epoxy jutting beyond the comm, weak brush springs, etc. The burning smell could be any number of things, including too-small motor supply wires. RacerXX might have a better idea on this since he has extensively temp probed his wheel.

Most likely cause on the squealing is weak brush springs. I have had the stock motors apart and am not impressed with the brush springs' strength. When the springs can't hold with enough force, the brush makes poor contact and erodes everything due to arcing. This can coat the comm with residue as well as erode only certain areas of the comm that are in contact with the brushes during high load (hence comm out-of-round conditions).

Edited to add: Here's a link to a brush tips PDF from a motor testing company:

http://www.pdma.com/pdfs/tips/2008/10_13_08.pdf
 
Hmm kretz, very interesting, and thank you for the insight.

I would call mine a brush "noise or squeal" There is no chatter feeling at all, yet. I just used the wheel 20 minutes ago at lunch with the new Gen 6 car. Same noises, but no issue or warmth with the attached fan. Still works 110%!!!. So, maybe it is not so bad. I did email Johannes today, so, we will see where that leads.
 
eKretz
This squealing/squeaking noise is stick/slip or brush chatter. It can actually be caused by a number of things, including commutator imperfections, comm out-of-round, insulating epoxy jutting beyond the comm, weak brush springs, etc. The burning smell could be any number of things, including too-small motor supply wires. RacerXX might have a better idea on this since he has extensively temp probed his wheel.

Most likely cause on the squealing is weak brush springs. I have had the stock motors apart and am not impressed with the brush springs' strength. When the springs can't hold with enough force, the brush makes poor contact and erodes everything due to arcing. This can coat the comm with residue as well as erode only certain areas of the comm that are in contact with the brushes during high load (hence comm out-of-round conditions).

Edited to add: Here's a link to a brush tips PDF from a motor testing company:

http://www.pdma.com/pdfs/tips/2008/10_13_08.pdf
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would you prefer that i get more technical about the cause.
did you know that the sound is actually ionization from the arcing.
i try to get down to the nitty gritty - the end result is the motor is on it`s way out.
or if you prefer - dah motor is kaput. lol lol.:)
 
AGP, your motor has not failed yet, it's only beginning to display the signs of some comm wear. Once the wear gets to a certain point, you'll start to notice the notchiness as different poles of the comm (lightly worn) will conduct more amperage than the others (more heavily worn). The brush chatter I described in my last post isn't something you'll feel so much as hear.

Sure Dave, whatever floats your boat. =)
 
eKretz
AGP, your motor has not failed yet, it's only beginning to display the signs of some comm wear. Once the wear gets to a certain point, you'll start to notice the notchiness as different poles of the comm (lightly worn) will conduct more amperage than the others (more heavily worn). The brush chatter I described in my last post isn't something you'll feel so much as hear.

Sure Dave, whatever floats your boat. =)
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yeah baby
 
I fear my CSR Elite that is about 2 months old is having this issue where the FF getting weaker. I sent a message to Fanatec to see if they can send a replacement, or if there are any suggested steps I should take first.

Jerome
 
Added some correction in my previous angry post (#29) after reading in the "Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders" Thread that this happens with other wheels like the T500 too.
 
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vittorio
Added some correction in my previous angry post (#23) after reading in the "Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders" Thread that this happens with other wheels like the T500 too.
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Right it happens in all wheels. It's just Physics and Economics. Heat versus selling a device at a reasonable cost.

For many DC motors the rule of thumb is to run them steadily only below certain duty cycles for certain levels of output. Some say to keep continuous torque in the 10-30% of stall torque range (depending on the motor). Another rule of thumb is 1/7th of stall torque.

The trouble for the wheel makers is that then their device feels much weaker. One solution is much more cooling, along with more or beefier/more efficient motors. Adding protection circuits that back off FFB strength and pump up the fan(s) as temperatures rise. You can keep motor temps lowish and FFB levels quite steady if you turn things way, way down. You like running at 9 or 10 out of 10? Try 2 or 3.
yuck.gif
But who wants to do that? I want to run at 20 not 2, and have no fade at all.
smile.gif
 
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At first my feedback was getting weaker, but today the wheel started 'skipping' to where it stopped accepting my input during turns. Then after about a minute, the whole setup just stops working, including my pedals. I still have the PS3 light on the face of the wheel, but none of the buttons or pedals work. I have to power it off then back on for it to work. I've contacted Fanatec to arrange a replacement.

I'm not sure if the loss of feedback strength is an indicator that the motors are going out or something else entirely.

Jerome
 
You are probably exceeding the safe amperage limit for the board and it's shutting down. This happened on my last Elite also. You'll need to replace the FFB motors or get a new wheel from Fanatec.
 
That is basically what the Fanatec tech told me. He is shipping a new motor to me. He said he attached a motor replacement guide (but didn't), does anyone have the pdf the Fanatec tech is referring to? I'd like to wrap my head around what to do when it arrives.


Jerome
 
send me your email Jump. I will forward the pdf manual over to you, and a couple pics to help with the wiring.
 
AGP5000
send me your email Jump. I will forward the pdf manual over to you, and a couple pics to help with the wiring.
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Awesome, PM incoming buddy thank you :bowdown:


Jerome
 
No problem, you should have the emails now. These are for CSW, but I would assume the procedure is similar between the 2.
 
AGP5000
No problem, you should have the emails now. These are for CSW, but I would assume the procedure is similar between the 2.
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After looking over your steps, the hardest part will be trying to figure out how to remove the wheel from the base :lol: I did send a support ticket to Fanatec about getting a CSR Elite guide for this.

I think for my own sanity I'm going to record how I end up doing this, in case it happens again and if anyone else needs to do it 👍

EDIT: Yep same pdf steps for CSW as CSR Elite 👍 I'm going to practice taking out my old motor and putting it back in a couple times before my new one arrives. I'm also going to place a couple sticky notes next to the front screws to have a better chance getting the belt tension right.

Jerome
 
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Jump_Ace
After looking over your steps, the hardest part will be trying to figure out how to remove the wheel from the base :lol: I did send a support ticket to Fanatec about getting a CSR Elite guide for this.

I think for my own sanity I'm going to record how I end up doing this, in case it happens again and if anyone else needs to do it 👍

EDIT: Yep same pdf steps for CSW as CSR Elite 👍 I'm going to practice taking out my old motor and putting it back in a couple times before my new one arrives. I'm also going to place a couple sticky notes next to the front screws to have a better chance getting the belt tension right.

Jerome
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They have you removing the steering wheel to replace FFB motors in the base?
 

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