Cursed Political Content

[UKMikey]

I don't get the sense that you have the right impression. I could be wrong, maybe I'm not remembering everything accurately. If you want to get a better sense of it, watch his standup routine. "I'm telling you for the last time" is probably a good one to use.

I kind of think it's his responsibility to make what he says understandable to neutral parties rather than expecting them to do homework in order to understand his nuance. Anything Musk wholeheartedly endorses seems instinctively suspect to me. Maybe I am the woke left.

I think this is his complaint, roughly. South Park is not written by committee. So it actually seems to fit with his complaint - which is that the industry is attempting to produce comedy by committee and with kid gloves on, and that this doesn't generally produce funny results.

My concern is with people who latch onto his comments and want all or most comedy to reflect these values without disclaimer, the way things used to be. There may be an audience for this kind of humour but they deserve to know what to expect going in.

The phrase "neutering of comedy" strikes me as an example of one which might not survive a committee that is overly concerned with PC statements.

Sounds like a bit of an exaggeration to me. To whom would the phrase be potentially offensive?

 

[Danoff]

I kind of think it's his responsibility to make what he says understandable to neutral parties rather than expecting them to do ho ework to understand his nuance.

I don't think it's his responsibility to preemptively thwart assumptions that will be made, including based on who decides to align themselves with whatever he said.

Anything Musk wholeheartedly endorses seems instinctively suspect to me. Maybe I am the woke left.

I personally don't make this assumption, though I do understand it. Musk is undoubtedly a scumbag.

My concern is with people who latch onto his comments and want all or most comedy to reflect these values without disclaimer, the way things used to be. There may be an audience for this kind of humour but they deserve to know what to expect going in.

I agree that Seinfeld overstepped in implicating that this is the reason for the death of the sitcom. I think there are a lot of reasons for that, one of which is that people are just more interested in more nuanced and explorative entertainment. If anything, a show like Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones is more to do with the death of the sitcom than whatever Seinfeld is complaining about.

But I don't think Seinfeld is an abusive or "othering" comic, or at least I've never thought of him that way. I'd have to re-watch his material to be sure.

Sounds like a bit of an exaggeration to me. To whom would the phrase be potentially offensive?

Anyone who thinks that genitals implying potency is offensive. A worse way to interpret this (though still fair based on the way this term gets used for dogs) would be that the ability to produce sperm implies potency. I could definitely see it being flagged by a committee that was concerned about causing offense.

 

[UKMikey]

But I don't think Seinfeld is an abusive or "othering" comic, or at least I've never thought of him that way. I'd have to re-watch his material to be sure.

Then perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. I didn't intend to make a judgment on what kind of a comic he is and don't feel I need to, to comment on what saying "the extreme left is destroying comedy" is likely to make people think, especially if he means "committees are playing things too safe" instead. There are right-wing influenced committees too.

If I did make a judgment about him earlier, it was about his dating a teenager while in his thirties, not about his comedy. But the left/right language seems designed to incite and seems hypocritical to me given the existence of organisations like PMRC.

Anyone who thinks that genitals imply potency.

I'm not sure they're a community that requires protection. Perhaps broadcasters do but I can't see it, extreme PC left or not.

 

[Danoff]

Then perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. I didn't intend to make a judgment on what kind of a comic he is and don't feel I need to, to comment on what saying "the extreme left is destroying comedy" is likely to make people think, especially if he means "committees are playing things too safe" instead. There are right-wing influenced committees too.

The committee-based concerns about offensive language are not coming from the right.

I'm not sure they're a community that requires protection. Perhaps broadcasters do but I can't see it, extreme PC left or not.

One community that might take issue with this is a particularly vocal one. I'm not sure you've fully investigated how PC PC gets.

 

[UKMikey]

The committee-based concerns about offensive language are not coming from the right.

This hasn't always been the case. That's why the PMRC was set up with Reaganite money. Progressive ideology isn't the extreme left and censorship isn't the exclusive domain of progressives.

One community that might take issue with this is a particularly vocal one. I'm not sure you've fully investigated how PC PC gets.

If they're so vocal they can make the complaint themselves. Should PC influence mainstream TV to the point it becomes unwatchable then more people will stop watching it and turn to something else. A fragmented audience isn't a sign that edgy comedy is being outlawed to me.

 

[Danoff]

Progressive ideology isn't the extreme left and censorship isn't the exclusive domain of progressives.

I didn't suggest that it was.

If they're so vocal they can make the complaint themselves.

You sound just like Seinfeld's comments.

This, of course, was my intent with picking on your "neuter" phrasing - to show you that even fairly benign comments can be considered offensive - and that you might find yourself more in agreement with Seinfeld than you originally assumed. But rather than take that meaning, you seem to have gone down the road of sounding even more like him - insinuating that whoever you're offending should either put up or shut up, and that your pre-censorship in the name of political correctness is inappropriate and just makes it unnecessarily hard for you to express yourself. That's basically the point he's making, and you arrived there really quickly in response to even a small amount of PC pushback.

 

[UKMikey]

I didn't suggest that it was.

Seinfeld however appears to be.

You sound just like Seinfeld's comments.

This, of course, was my intent with picking on your "neuter" phrasing - to show you that even fairly benign comments can be considered offensive - and that you might find yourself more in agreement with Seinfeld than you originally assumed. But rather than take that meaning, you seem to have gone down the road of sounding even more like him - insinuating that whoever you're offending should either put up or shut up, and that your pre-censorship in the name of political correctness is inappropriate and just makes it unnecessarily hard for you to express yourself. That's basically the point he's making, and you arrived there really quickly in response to even a small amount of PC pushback.

"Of course" it was sophistry and went completelyover my head. I'm not trying to censor him in the name of political correctness. I'm trying to understand that his point about committees has some value while criticising the extreme left dogwhistling. I think he could make his point more effectively were it not couched in what sounds to me like the alienating language of the alt-right.

Getting these kind of vibes from your post:

 

[Danoff]

Seinfeld however appears to be.

I'm not sure that's true. Can you give an example to support this?

"Of course" it was sophistry and went completely over my head. I'm not trying to censor him in the name of political correctness. I'm trying to agree with his point about committees while criticising the extreme left dogwhistling. I think he could make his point more effectively were it not couched in what sounds to me like the alienating language of the alt-right.

Richard Dawkins is the one that did this to me first. He goes on any number of "woke" rants about how "woke" ideology is so dangerous and awful, even while calling himself a left leaning person. I also had a recoil reaction listening to him use the term "woke" like it still means something. And you can stop there, and many people no doubt have, and just write him off as another "woke mind virus" type who has bought into the alt-right and is now on the wrong side of the battle... but...

If you actually listen to what he has to say, he's still the same person with the same sharp mind and he has a good point to make. Seinfeld is not Dawkins, obviously. And Seinfeld gets much of his message wrong, especially about why the sitcom is no long what it used to be. But he does still have a valid point that he's making, and it's a point that you took up in this thread.

My goal was to get you to empathize by taking an example from your own language, and you did, which is great.

Edit: And for reference, people do get offended by the use of the term "neuter" in the way you used it. It's not particularly PC.

 

[UKMikey]

I'm not sure that's true. Can you give an example to support this?

He's saying that comedy is being censored by committees composed of extreme leftists. I'm not sure that the people responsible for the blandness of the mainstream aren't doing it for what they perceive to be purely commercial reasons rather than because of woke ideology.

 

[Danoff]

He's saying that comedy is being censored by committees composed of extreme leftists. I'm not sure that the people responsible for the blandness of the mainstream aren't doing it for what they perceive to be purely commercial reasons rather than because of woke ideology.

Can you give an example of him thinking that censorship is exclusive to the left?

 

[UKMikey]

Can you give an example of him thinking that censorship is exclusive to the left?

Censorship generally, or television comedy censorship?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

 

[Danoff]

Censorship generally, or television comedy censorship?

Whatever lines up with this:

Seinfeld however appears to be.

You were making a point about how Seinfeld thinks that censorship is exclusive to left wingers. I'm trying to understand that.

 

[UKMikey]

You were making a point about how Seinfeld thinks that censorship is exclusive to left wingers. I'm trying to understand that.

I'm trying to make a point about how Seinfeld thinks that the extreme left is destroying comedy because of PC crap. Maybe I misread his comments but he doesn't seem to be blaming anyone else for this.

 

[Danoff]

I'm trying to make a point about how Seinfeld thinks that the extreme left is destroying comedy because of PC crap. Maybe I misread his comments but he doesn't seem to be blaming anyone else for this.

That's fine. I was trying to figure out this exchange in case you're interested. If you're not interested, that's fine. I don't feel the need to hash this one out.

Progressive ideology isn't the extreme left and censorship isn't the exclusive domain of progressives.

I didn't suggest that it was.

Seinfeld however appears to be.

I'm not sure that's true. Can you give an example to support this?

 

[UKMikey]

 

[Blitz24]

Well, if she didn't have a reason, now she has two!

 

[Darla Starch]

"Confederate flag"

 

[UKMikey]

Well, if she didn't have a reason, now she has two!

I was about to say that by not going out with him she dodged a bullet until I read the last line.

 

[McLaren]

But you want to judge me for one flag

Lol, yes. It reveals a possible part of your character. You can bet your ass if I see a Trump flag, I'm already deciding how deep into the cult you are.

that is why i am white & free to think what I want

Basically just proving her point by declaring "why you're white"....

 

[Blitz24]

I was about to say that by not going out with him she dodged a bullet until I read the last line.

He first got a blue flag and now he's received a meatball flag.

 

[UKMikey]

 

[UKMikey]

 

[Liquid]

You will not be missed.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Found a Darwin award winner.

 

[GBO Possum]

 

[Blitz24]

Found a Darwin award winner.

Unless she reproduced, which would disqualify her.

 

[TB]

Unless she reproduced, which would disqualify her.

With the "The" in front of her name, she's too full if herself to share the spotlight with kids.

 

[McLaren]

View attachment 1352945

That's here in Dallas. Wonder if he'll be out there since Trump is supposed to be coming through for the NRA convention.

 

[Liquid]

Trump is supposed to be coming through for the NRA convention.

No guns allowed on the convention floor like last time?