Cutting turns and chicanes in Time Trials (mainly Seasonals)

[challengerrt10]

I spend most of my time in GT6 doing hot laps, time trials and just driving. What irritates me is that you can cut a 90 degree turn, a chicane or a set of corners virtuallly driving straight across them and you have still the lap time valid.

It spoils the fun, difficulty and purpose of these corners. For examples: the first ascending turns at Matterhorn Rottenboden (seasonal with S2000), first chicane at Silverstone Stowe (with Afla Mito), many chicanes at Street of Willow (with Hudson), Nordscheife, Apricot, Ascari. I know, in reality, you may go off the track with one side of the car (two wheels) but it should not be allowed that for an example 80 % of the width of the car is off the track and the lap (time) is still valid. Especialy during time trials, seasonals.

Doing clean laps with a stock car, without crossing the kerbs or cuttings chicanes I'm not able to achieve a gold, not to mention the fact that I lose many seconds, tens of them to the best drivers on leaderboards (I know they are very good at driving, tuning but they also cut the corners, chicanes speeding almost off the track).

I think it should be changed. In time trials it should not be allowed to significantly cross the kerbs, cut the chicanes and etc. And around chicanes or at some key spots some road guards (cones) should be placed like during licence tests to preserve the purpose and shape of chicanes and make the time of a lap invalid if you touch them or knock them over.

What are your opinions on that issue?

 

[Blitz24]

So what they do already isn't enough? I assume this isn't complaining because you aren't in the top 100 right?

 

[ukfan758]

I spend most of my time in GT6 doing hot laps, time trials and just driving. What irritates me is that you can cut a 90 degree turn, a chicane or a set of corners virtuallly driving straight across them and you have still the lap time valid.

It spoils the fun, difficulty and purpose of these corners. For examples: the first ascending turns at Matterhorn Rottenboden (seasonal with S2000), first chicane at Silverstone Stowe (with Afla Mito), many chicanes at Street of Willow (with Hudson), Nordscheife, Apricot, Ascari. I know, in reality, you may go off the track with one side of the car (two wheels) but it should not be allowed that for an example 80 % of the width of the car is off the track and the lap (time) is still valid. Especialy during time trials, seasonals.

Doing clean laps with a stock car, without crossing the kerbs or cuttings chicanes I'm not able to achieve a gold, not to mention the fact that I lose many seconds, tens of them to the best drivers on leaderboards (I know they are very good at driving, tuning but they also cut the corners, chicanes speeding almost off the track).

I think it should be changed. In time trials it should not be allowed to significantly cross the kerbs, cut the chicanes and etc. And around chicanes or at some key spots some road guards (cones) should be placed like during licence tests to preserve the purpose and shape of chicanes and make the time of a lap invalid if you touch them or knock them over.

What are your opinions on that issue?

What's amazing is you can do that, BUT, if you barely run wide coming out of a corner (ex: last corner before the final chicane at spa), even if it is just TWO wheels, you are immediately disqualified. I hope they fix the corner cutting in an update so that some of the lap times are legitimate again.

 

[sid_chiclana]

Don't quote me on this, but I believe you only get penalised if you put the four wheels off the track, two wheels on and two off is still ok.
Now, if that's the case, all you have to do is watch any F1 qualifying lap and you'll see what I mean right away Even on street circuits...

 

[phil_75]

I noticed the fastest time in the S2000 Matterhorn TT is 1.40!
I am at 1.51!

 

[ukfan758]

Don't quote me on this, but I believe you only get penalised if you put the four wheels off the track, two wheels on and two off is still ok.
Now, if that's the case, all you have to do is watch any F1 qualifying lap and you'll see what I mean right away

I have had disqualifications from just two wheels running wide. You are right about F1 qualifying .

 

[stormbringer]

2 wheels are on the track = legal, regardless of % of car not on track.

 

[challengerrt10]

So what they do already isn't enough? I assume this isn't complaining because you aren't in the top 100 right?

No, I don't bother with my place on leaderbords. But what was the sense of placing some chicanes at Apricot (the last), Streets of Willow (the last, and the one in the middle), first turns at Matterhorn Rottenboden if you can drive straight through them without turning at all???

 

[dadarjapit]

I say if at least 2 wheels are still on the track, the lap would still be considered clean.
Currently on 1:53 after 3 laps on the Matterhorn TT.

I definitely know I'm gonna enjoy this one and spend quite a bit of time to improve my lap. I know because I'm biased hahaha I love s2ks, own one myself =D

Do you guys run with SRF or not?

 

[ukfan758]

PD made the Apricot Hill and Matterhorn Rottenboden so you can ask them about why chicanes were placed in the tracks. Willow Springs was not made by PD.

 

[challengerrt10]

PD made the Apricot Hill and Matterhorn Rottenboden so you can ask them about why chicanes were placed in the tracks. Willow Springs was not made by PD.

I don't need to ask PD or the track designers. The obvious purpose of a chicane is not to drive it straight without making any slight turns at least.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

My opinion is no penalty system is ever going to be perfect. And racers, both real and virtual, are going to look to push the edge wherever it is. Coming from Forza though, I have to say PD's penalty system is so much better. It allows you to really aggressively push without worrying that the slightest touch of a rumble strip is going to invalidate times like it does on FM in some places.

At the end of the day, it's just like the hockey game in the snow yesterday....everyone is playing in the same conditions. It's up to you to learn the limits of the penalty system and take advantage of them. Which in my mind is full on sim. Because that's exactly how any real race car driver worth his salt would look at it.

 

[dadarjapit]

I don't need to ask PD or the track designers. The obvious purpose of a chicane is not to drive it straight without making any slight turns at least.

The main purpose of a chicane is to slow down the cars on tracks with long straight sections (think Monza or la Sarthe).
Even when taking as straight line as you could (aka ideal racing line), you'd still be going slower compared to if the chicane wasn't there right? Then the chicane has served its purpose.

 

[eSZee]

I spend most of my time in GT6 doing hot laps, time trials and just driving. What irritates me is that you can cut a 90 degree turn, a chicane or a set of corners virtuallly driving straight across them and you have still the lap time valid.

It spoils the fun, difficulty and purpose of these corners.

What are your opinions on that issue?

I you're not in it to get top leaderboard times, which you said you aren't, then what's the problem? If it spoils your fun, don't cu the corners yourself. Problem solved.
It doesn't affect me. It doesn't bother me. Why is it an issue for you?

 

[VBR]

Track boundaries should be the white lines running along the outside of the track, anymore than 2 wheels over them & the time should be invalid. PD are rubbish at programming this into GT games, as has been seen by many previous GT Academy events. That's one major reason I don't bother with them, the other is that many of them force you to use Skid Recovery Force.

PD get 0 out of 10 for this aspect of GT6. 👎

 

[challengerrt10]

I you're not in it to get top leaderboard times, which you said you aren't, then what's the problem? If it spoils your fun, don't cu the corners yourself. Problem solved.
It doesn't affect me. It doesn't bother me. Why is it an issue for you?

The time limits for Gold are set (in seasonals with Mito, S2000 and etc) at the level you virtually can't reach with a stock cars without 80% of the car off the track at some crucial turns and chicanes.

 

[dadarjapit]

That's one major reason I don't bother with them, the other is that many of them force you to use Skid Recovery Force.

THIS I do have a problem with.
I say there should be a separate leaderboards for those who use them and those who don't.
Or just make the playing field level by prohibiting it altogether.

The time limits for Gold are set (in seasonals with Mito, S2000 and etc) at the level you virtually can't reach with a stock cars without 80% of the car off the track at some crucial turns and chicanes.

Maybe you couldn't - and that's fair, its your opinion, but what makes you think that other people couldn't?
Edit - just for the lols I did one lap with everything off (AS, SRF, TCS, ASM) and ABS set to 1, and treating even the white lines as "off track". Wasn't used to the car at all since it was my first run with these settings and did 1:56. And it was a VERY messy lap. And I'm probably below the average compared to all these guys here on GTPlanet.

Edit again - my apologies, my car wasn't stock. I'll give it a go with a stock car.

 

[jimipitbull]

The best part of Hudson Hornet time trial is putting 2 wheels on the outside dirt, turn in hard and drift it around the corners.

 

[eSZee]

The time limits for Gold are set (in seasonals with Mito, S2000 and etc) at the level you virtually can't reach with a stock cars without 80% of the car off the track at some crucial turns and chicanes.

I'll have to replay them again as I'm pretty sure that's absolutely false.

 

[challengerrt10]

THIS I do have a problem with.
I say there should be a separate leaderboards for those who use them and those who don't.
Or just make the playing field level by prohibiting it altogether.



Maybe you couldn't - and that's fair, its your opinion, but what makes you think that other people couldn't?
Edit - just for the lols I did one lap with everything off (AS, SRF, TCS, ASM) and ABS set to 1, and treating even the white lines as "off track". Wasn't used to the car at all since it was my first run with these settings and did 1:56. And it was a VERY messy lap. And I'm probably below the average compared to all these guys here on GTPlanet.

Edit again - my apologies, my car wasn't stock. I'll give it a go with a stock car.

No worry. I use only stock cars. Try to do this what you said with stock (ABS 1) without an oil change and etc.

 

[eSZee]

No worry. I use only stock cars. Try to do this what you said with stock.

Gold times are based on cars with PP numbers that equal to max allowed per event. If they were based on stock car times, the restrictions would clearly say so.

 

[raytard]

Kurbs are track and rubbing is racing, as my Dad used to say.

2 wheels on the track at all times to keep it legal, other than that, cut all you want. That's an easy rule to follow, program, and enforce. It's a level playing field for all of us, we all have the same rules. 99% of players can't do a lap at speed without putting tires over the lines at some point. Don't forget, among players of this game, were the elite, the 1%, and most will never have the skill or control you do.

You cant go much further than the two wheel rule, because then what's next? Invalidating for crossing the lines? Touching kurbing? Touching grass/dirt?

You want to invalidate everyone at Trial Mountain that cuts the yellow slashes on the turns near the tunnels? Everyone who crosses the shoulder on the big loop at Cape Ring?

 

[phil_75]

I say if at least 2 wheels are still on the track, the lap would still be considered clean.
Currently on 1:53 after 3 laps on the Matterhorn TT.

I definitely know I'm gonna enjoy this one and spend quite a bit of time to improve my lap. I know because I'm biased hahaha I love s2ks, own one myself =D

Do you guys run with SRF or not?

Not!

 

[dadarjapit]

No worry. I use only stock cars. Try to do this what you said with stock (ABS 1) without an oil change and etc.

2:00.246 on my very first lap . Stock (all aids off except abs 1, no touching white lines at all).
So I'd say its definitely doable.
edit - second lap 1:59.215

 

[phil_75]

The time limits for Gold are set (in seasonals with Mito, S2000 and etc) at the level you virtually can't reach with a stock cars without 80% of the car off the track at some crucial turns and chicanes.

I did them both in stock cars before i realised it was PP limit, got 1.57.9 on S2000 TT (Gold)

1.10.6 on Integrale (0.6 off Gold)

About 6 laps on each.

All aids off DS3 user.

 

[Boone]

Two wheels inside the white line is legal(GT). /end thread.

 

[Bo]

I had to put SRF on to do well in this (Matterhorn S2000), I feel bad, but to be at the top you need to use everything they give you. I was dipping 2 wheels of the track a lot, 3 wheels at one point, but I never got a lap invalidated. I think it's 2/3 wheels, you can get lucky I suppose (it's not the most precise system ever).

 

[phil_75]

I had to put SRF on to do well in this (Matterhorn S2000), I feel bad, but to be at the top you need to use everything they give you. I was dipping 2 wheels of the track a lot, 3 wheels at one point, but I never got a lap invalidated. I think it's 2/3 wheels, you can get lucky I suppose (it's not the most precise system ever).

I am at 1.51.xxx at the 470PP limit so its definitely doable mate.
I wish they would make the cars stock instead of PP limits though then everyone is as equal as possible.
Yes i'm bitter because i'm rubbish at tuning:-D

 

[Bo]

Yes, but i'm pushing 1:45's . I just slapped on any old setup, it's a decent car anyway so I didn't think it would need much tinkering. But I agree about the PP limits, the Anniversary seasonal #3 has a 631PP limit for the R18, but the first two don't and neither do any of the others. It's useless tuning a car up for 1 event that only lasts two weeks, the thing will probably never see the track again.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I'm not sure what some people are complaining about. two wheels on track is legal, your can run on the kurb, in the grass or whatever so long as you keep 2 wheels on the track it should be ok other than the fact that you may loose control by hitting the curbs or grass.

I think PD do a pretty good job on this though maybe not everywhere but most places at least unlike Forza which will disqualify your laps in some places for just touching a curb. It seemed better on Forza 4 than it was on 3 but still an issue.

On Forza 3 if you ran the ideal racing line through the chicanes on the straight at LaSarthe you would incur 6 ! flags and that is just for getting the tire on the curbs even if you do not cross them at all. In other places you could have 90% of the car off track and still be ok, took a lot of time to learn where you could and could not use the proper fast racing line without having your lap DQed