Dad needs a new car

[Raghavan]

SR20DET is what you get when you buy a 180SX in Japan. His is stock, but his isn't in Japan, it's here.

This is three thousand canadian, which is half of 5 grand US last year, when he got the car running. It is a half second slower on the drag, but on a track, it would slaughter the Firebird by many many many seconds, any track, any time.

I'm not going to go on with this anymore. This is the stupidest argument, for so many reasons.

Bull****. Since when does a stock SR20DET run a 13 sec quarter? Modified, that's easily believable, as those engines take tons of hp, but not stock, no way.

 

[niky]

Uhm... both the 250 hp Silvia and the Pulsar GTi-R do the 1320 in about 13 and a half. But then, since no car in the US of A comes stock with an SR20DET, why are we having this side discussion?

If we're talking bang for the buck, you can pick up a Sentra SE-R (SR20DE, 7.6 seconds 0-60 stock) for about 1500 (500 if it's all banged up), an SR20DET for another 1500, and make a 13-second FF car...




One that'll break a tranny or drive-axle every third pass.

I thought we were talking about a daily driver that'll go cross-country, not dragsters.

 

[Gil]

ummmmmmm 93-98 Mustangs had 215HP.... 93-98 Firebird's 275-285-305-320 and they whoop the living $h!t out of them, try by a full second, starting with the slowest, 275HP version
I didnt name SVT mustang's because A: they're really really hard to find, and B: they're still slower, by quite the bit, and C: those are Definetly more expensive

If you only go back 10 years, which was the specified outer limit, the base models have the same HP and are withing 10 lb/ft of torque. They get essentially the same gas mileage, and The Mustang has more interior room.
Kelley blue book on them is w/in a few hundred bucks.
It matters not which one you get.
As you go to newer models the blue book isn't all that different either.
IF YOU SHOP AROUND, you can probably find either model to suit you.
A 2003 Mustang is a bit more expensive than a 2003 Camaro. Oh, wait...Chevy stopped making Camaros before the 2003 model year.

 

[Disturbed07]

If you only go back 10 years, which was the specified outer limit, the base models have the same HP and are withing 10 lb/ft of torque. They get essentially the same gas mileage, and The Mustang has more interior room.
Kelley blue book on them is w/in a few hundred bucks.
It matters not which one you get.
As you go to newer models the blue book isn't all that different either.
IF YOU SHOP AROUND, you can probably find either model to suit you.
A 2003 Mustang is a bit more expensive than a 2003 Camaro. Oh, wait...Chevy stopped making Camaros before the 2003 model year.

well, 95 Firebird's had 285 HP....95 Mustang GT's had 215 HP... you're right, that is the same..Thank you for pointing that out for me

I'm not gonna get started on the guy's that claim Silvia's(since I'm the only one who seems able to call them that) running 13's with only 250HP....
and here we go again, another guy assuming the Japanese cars is faster on a road course...

 

[Ev0]

well, 95 Firebird's had 285 HP....95 Mustang GT's had 215 HP... you're right, that is the same..Thank you for pointing that out for me

I'm not gonna get started on the guy's that claim Silvia's(since I'm the only one who seems able to call them that) running 13's with only 250HP....
and here we go again, another guy assuming the Japanese cars is faster on a road course...

I've heard many claims that Silvias run 13 second 1/4 mile runs with an SR20DET. And it is believable; the Silvia in North American spec weighs around 2750lbs, and it has a 5 speed manual transmission. Since the stock transmission is set up for a 160hp motor, the car will have excellent acceleration due to the taller ratios necessary for the weaker engine. Throw in the low weight and a good set of tires, and a mid to high 13 second 1/4 mile is entirely believable. And lets not even get started about track performance, unless you were being sarcastic.

 

[Disturbed07]

I've heard many claims that Silvias run 13 second 1/4 mile runs with an SR20DET. And it is believable; the Silvia in North American spec weighs around 2750lbs, and it has a 5 speed manual transmission. Since the stock transmission is set up for a 160hp motor, the car will have excellent acceleration due to the taller ratios necessary for the weaker engine. Throw in the low weight and a good set of tires, and a mid to high 13 second 1/4 mile is entirely believable. And lets not even get started about track performance, unless you were being sarcastic.

well, let's see, the gears shouldnt be any different, basically, assuming you know that the 2 cars don't have drastically different gearing.
Secondly, I'll bet you can't name any car in the world with 250HP, thats in the 2500-3000LB range that is commonly accepted to run in the mid 13's, can you?
Hell, I'll be surprised if you can name any, let alone one people will believe.
Thrown in good tires? you mean, the skinny stock ones, right?
By the way, 2750lbs for a 4-banger aint that light.

Am I kidding about track performance? NO. and no, you won't be able to prove me wrong, because you have NO idea what's done to the car I mentioned, as I did say it was modified, no? His car would put such a hurtin on a stock 240, you'd crap your pants. So tell me, what would even make you think it could run with a stock one? I'll bet it can't even keep up in GT4, let alone the real world, where Japanese cars don't get a kick in the pants

Wait, he said 180SX.... so isnt that slower?
P.S. 240's that are 10 years old, have 240HP, not 250
more P.S. 3000 in Canadian money, isnt 5000 in American, for the genious who said that, 3000 in Canadian, is aboot 2000-2500 in American

 

[Max_DC]

Who cares about 1/4 mile times anyway ? We are searching a car for normal roads, right ?
So Disturbed07, what is your point ? American muscle cars are better sports cars than japanese sports cars ? Yeah...allright...

 

[Disturbed07]

oh

Who cares about 1/4 mile times anyway ? We are searching a car for normal roads, right ?
So Disturbed07, what is your point ? American muscle cars are better sports cars than japanese sports cars ? Yeah...allright...

Read the thread.
My point is a 180sx or 240 or whatever won't run mid 13's
My original point was 160hp cars arent what this guy asked for
you're right, Japanese sports cars are the bestest in the world, wait, arent you that guy? the guy who thinks they have to many American cars in GT4? I don't care to talk to you

 

[Max_DC]

oh

Read the thread.
My point is a 180sx or 240 or whatever won't run mid 13's
My original point was 160hp cars arent what this guy asked for
you're right, Japanese sports cars are the bestest in the world, wait, arent you that guy? the guy who thinks they have to many American cars in GT4? I don't care to talk to you

.. Yes I am the one, although the post you refer to was an attempt to show the threadstarter, that the japanese developer Polyphony won't significantly change the ratio of jp/us/eu cars, since SCEE is a japanese company etc...
In fact I don't care how many US cars will be in GT5, but that doesn't matter anyway, since we'll have no influence...

Ok back to topic : I'm not too familiar with 1/4 mile races, all I know is that everything below 10 is pretty fast....
But what I do know, is that a NSX-R can almost keep up with a Gallardo on some racetracks, which doesn't mean that jp sport cars are the best in the world, but it shows that sometimes things turn out to be different than thought before.
Ev0 said above, that US muscle cars tend to be unreliable and while you didn't share that opinion, I do.
My interpretation of your tone in the last posts in this thread was a pro muscle / anti jp sporty cars attitude concerning performance and I wanted to express that I feel different about that.

When will you care to talk to me ? Do I have to prove that I'm within the 2.2 % as you stated in you signature ?

 

[niky]

well, let's see, the gears shouldnt be any different, basically, assuming you know that the 2 cars don't have drastically different gearing.
Secondly, I'll bet you can't name any car in the world with 250HP, thats in the 2500-3000LB range that is commonly accepted to run in the mid 13's, can you?
Hell, I'll be surprised if you can name any, let alone one people will believe.
Thrown in good tires? you mean, the skinny stock ones, right?
By the way, 2750lbs for a 4-banger aint that light.

Ignore me again and I will smite you with my mighty banana.

Pulsar GTi-R, 227 hp version - 13.9 second 1/4 mile

Pulsar GTi-R, 250 hp version - 13.5 second 1/4 mile

200SX S15, 250 hp version - 13.5 second 1/4 mile.

All over 2500 lbs but still quite a bit lighter than most muscle cars. Give it a rest.

And yes, the point is irrelevant because none of these are available in the US... and most SR20DETs in the US are not in stock trim, thus, they're faster.

And why are we still arguing over 1/4 miles? I agree that you could possibly go spend as little money as possible and buy a rusting old hulk with a V8 that'll do sub 13's. Shame on you, Max_DC... muscle cars aren't entirely unreliable... the build quality may not be up to everyone's taste, but the engines are humongous power whores that'll definitely stand up to almost any abuse.

A 240SX is not a bad car. It has nifty handling, good space and decent acceleration. It's a good cruiser, and I believe that that was in the original request.

But then, so is a Camaro... the last Camaros may be a tad on the soft side, but they're very fast and able to double duty on both street and strip.

 

[Max_DC]

Ev0 said above, that US muscle cars tend to be unreliable and while you didn't share that opinion, I do.

Shame on you, Max_DC... muscle cars aren't entirely unreliable... the build quality may not be up to everyone's taste, but the engines are humongous power whores that'll definitely stand up to almost any abuse.

Note the difference

 

[Ev0]

Firstly, I was talking about a 240SX with an SR20DET in it. It would be pointless comparing the straightline performance of American muscle cars with a puny 160hp stock 240SX.

well, let's see, the gears shouldnt be any different, basically, assuming you know that the 2 cars don't have drastically different gearing.

A big V8 compared to a car set up for a 160hp I-4. I'd certianly hope to god they have different gear ratios considering the obvious difference in power.

Secondly, I'll bet you can't name any car in the world with 250HP, thats in the 2500-3000LB range that is commonly accepted to run in the mid 13's, can you?
Hell, I'll be surprised if you can name any, let alone one people will believe.

Look at my name. Next...

Thrown in good tires? you mean, the skinny stock ones, right?
By the way, 2750lbs for a 4-banger aint that light.

Most people who drive modded 240s put on good performance tires. I should have mentioned that the tires were not stock, my mistake there.

And 2750lbs is pretty damn light. It's lighter than a previous generation Porsche Boxster.

Am I kidding about track performance? NO. and no, you won't be able to prove me wrong, because you have NO idea what's done to the car I mentioned, as I did say it was modified, no? His car would put such a hurtin on a stock 240, you'd crap your pants. So tell me, what would even make you think it could run with a stock one? I'll bet it can't even keep up in GT4, let alone the real world, where Japanese cars don't get a kick in the pants

I don't care if one of the muscle cars you're talking about has 400hp; mid 90s American muscle cars handled like crap. Their chassis' were flacid, they had poor suspensions, and to top it off, they had solid rear axles. Nothing like a 240SX; there's a reason why they are a popular drift car; they handle extremely well.

Wait, he said 180SX.... so isnt that slower?

Its the Japanese name of the 240SX. The names are commonly used interchangeably.

P.S. 240's that are 10 years old, have 240HP, not 250
more P.S. 3000 in Canadian money, isnt 5000 in American, for the genious who said that, 3000 in Canadian, is aboot 2000-2500 in American

If I can understand what you are trying to say, yes, I know $3000CAD is not $5,000 USD. Secondly, why is spending less money a bad thing? If there is a better car for less money, why not go for it?

And I have never met a person who says aboot.

 

[Ghost C]

Ignore me again and I will smite you with my mighty banana.

Pulsar GTi-R, 227 hp version - 13.9 second 1/4 mile

Pulsar GTi-R, 250 hp version - 13.5 second 1/4 mile

200SX S15, 250 hp version - 13.5 second 1/4 mile.

All over 2500 lbs but still quite a bit lighter than most muscle cars. Give it a rest.

Did you get those numbers from the same people that say the SRT-4 does 0-60 in 5.6 seconds? It looks like it. REAL WORLD FACT - My car is as fast as a stock SR20DET powered 240. I bet you eleventy six million dollars my car will not break anything lower than a high 14, if that quick. Say it with me now, 240SX's are slow, 240SX's are slow, 240SX's are slow. Ok? Ok.

As I said before, Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe, or Seville Touring Sedan - Either will have more than adequate power, more than enough luxury and comfort, and get fairly decent highway mileage.

 

[niky]

No, actually, as far as I know, it's just Car and Driver that says it can do 5.6. It's awfully difficult to find English sources for Japanese Market cars. And those are 200SXs, not SR20DET swapped 240s. So please don't pick on me. And take note, there are a hell of a lot of different SR20DET trims, all between 180 and 250 hp stock. Not all swapped SR20DETs are going to be street monsters. But they have the potential.

I was responding to the post asking for 250hp cars between 2500 and 3000 whatever lbs that could get 13.5 quarter mile times. I posted that.... and take note:

A 240SX is not a bad car. It has nifty handling, good space and decent acceleration. It's a good cruiser, and I believe that that was in the original request.

Note I didn't say the 240 was a rocket? Good. And I don't advise buying a swapped 240 either, as you're never sure if the original owner bollixed the swap or not. If you want one, it's best to do it yourself...

please note:

But then, so is a Camaro... the last Camaros may be a tad on the soft side, but they're very fast and able to double duty on both street and strip.

I'm not entirely a riceboy... but being a former Nissan club member, I didn't want to take the DET bashing lying down.

Note the difference

Noted. Sorry about that.

P.S.: On C&D's 5.6 SRT time... C&D gave out an 8.3 for my car when everyone else was giving 8.7s and 9s (yes, my car is pathetically slow)... that 8.3, by the way, was confirmed by a boardmate of mine here... so, I do tend to believe them. I've said this elsewhere... launching a front-wheel drive car is an art that not many testers have mastered or even bother to master... hell, I doubt I could match that 8.3... not that I hate my clutch that much.

And tire, engine and clutch condition (especially for test units) really affect times... tires much more so than with RWD cars, as tire-traction is about the only thing that gets an FF going forward, since it doesn't have the ability of a RWD car to squat on its drive wheels.

Hell, even just slightly softened engine mounts will kill an FF car's acceleration times.

EDIT: Again, can I say this? Let's give the damn drag times a rest. This thread was supposed to be about:

He's asked me to find a car that will:
- be under 10K
- used
-sporty; able to keep up with the maid's lexus

This pissing contest isn't really moving it along, now is it? So far as I can tell, a slow stock 240SX fits all of the requirements. But so does your Caddy... so, there.

 

[Gil]

well, 95 Firebird's had 285 HP....95 Mustang GT's had 215 HP... you're right, that is the same..Thank you for pointing that out for me

Ooo...You shore one-upped ol' Mr. Gil.
You didn't read his post. But you shore one-upped him.
I'm going to try this one more time with mostly small words.

This car is to be used for cross-country driving. The base V-6's, which still get only 20 MPG, and are strong, reliable, PLENTIFUL, road cruisers, have very similar power ratings. I will concede that F-bodies, fully loaded are more powerful than 'Stangs. Unless you count the Cobra, which has 305 HP to the 285 you quoted for the F-body. And it isn't all that rare, or all that much more expensive.
In the V-8 models the F-bodies are also nearly 200 lbs heavier than the 'Stangs. And they still have less interior space. I never said I gave a rat's ass which car is "better". I said they were "comparable." And they both have a huge aftermarket. While I understand that more power is "sportier", it is also more expensive to run.
At 20-24 MPG (which is realistic gas mileage for a leadfoot in a V-8) You can save a gallon of gas every 60 miles if you're pulling down 30MPG in a Prelude, Maxima or Camry. That's 50 gallons of gas one way. Or more than $100 saved each way. That's $2500 a year in fuel for a monthly trip across country.

I still advocate for the Prelude, or Maxima, or Camry.
Barring that, another sweet ride would be a Lexus SC300 or SC400. You'll only find a manual in the SC300 and they are rare.

 

[Disturbed07]

wow, so many stupid things have been said, it'd take an hour to show you guys who misunderstood things I said, who's full of crap, who's dumb, and who thinks an EVO has 250 hp..... I guess an old one, good point, an 4wd car can, yes
whoever posted the 200SX times, in 13's ha! and the Pulsar? weighs LESS than 2500 pounds, or should and is 4wd too, I believe
So let me rephrase, anything 2-wheel drive car, weighing at least 2500lbs, having no more than 240hp, and having the powerband of a turbo-4banger... there happy?
The rest of you can go away, I don't have time to make 14 people smarter today, sorry

Oh wait, the guy who says mid 90's Firbirds have solid rear axle's: YOU ARE A MORON.
They do not have solid rear's nor was it even available - period.
And you tell me it's supension is crap? do you own one? did I NOT say it was MODIFIED?
I'll try this: THE SUSPENSION IS NOT STOCK - get it now? this is why we DON"T compare modified cars in these circumstances

o yes, Gil, you got me there, wait, you missed where I said I'd get a Civic, didnt you? you must have, cause you're still talking about gas-milage, and in the same post you tried to make an ass out of me for "not reading your post" nice!
Wise Men Engage Brain Before Mouth Opens - you should have heard this somewhere....

P.S. there was never a Cobra in the 90's that could run with the top-model Trans-Am, nor till after production stopped for Firebirds.... and even then, they're what? ,3,.4 sec slower? without boost... yes it now is about Firebirds and Camaros being better, that's why I said them in the first place
and, Mustangs are more expensive, generally, yes you can shop around for a cheaper one, but wait? can't you shop for a cheaper Firebird? I'll bet you can, so until you have something useful, or new to say, don't bother - just read your sig

 

[Ev0]

Here we go again...

wow, so many stupid things have been said, it'd take an hour to show you guys who misunderstood things I said, who's full of crap, who's dumb, and who thinks an EVO has 250 hp..... I guess an old one, good point, an 4wd car can, yes
whoever posted the 200SX times, in 13's ha! and the Pulsar? weighs LESS than 2500 pounds, or should and is 4wd too, I believe
So let me rephrase, anything 2-wheel drive car, weighing at least 2500lbs, having no more than 240hp, and having the powerband of a turbo-4banger... there happy?
The rest of you can go away, I don't have time to make 14 people smarter today, sorry

Let me say this again. A 240 with an SR20DET can certainly do sub 14 second 1/4 mile times because it is light, and because it is using a transmission set up for a significantly less powerful engine, which means it has tall gear ratios, which means it will have quick acceleration.

Oh wait, the guy who says mid 90's Firbirds have solid rear axle's: YOU ARE A MORON.
They do not have solid rear's nor was it even available - period.
And you tell me it's supension is crap? do you own one? did I NOT say it was MODIFIED?
I'll try this: THE SUSPENSION IS NOT STOCK - get it now? this is why we DON"T compare modified cars in these circumstances

My mistake on the solid rear axle, I got it confused with the Mustang. No need to get angry though. But you never made a mention of suspension modifications ever before. Next time when talking about a specific modified car, say what has been done to it. Technically, some idiot who just sticks a fartcan exhaust on a Civic can legitimately claim to drive a modified car.

And besides, it's widely known that stock Firebirds, Camaros, etc have poor suspension setups. You're paying for an engine, not for a well rounded car.

 

[Gil]

Well this is the third time I've said that the base models have similar HP and you've not acknowledged that at all. You keep taking it to the big V-8's. They are wonderful "toys" for weekends, and when the weather is nice.
When you start pointing fingers re: "wisdom" and an open mouth, remember three fingers are pointing right back atcha.

I wasn't ignoring you on the Civic, it's a wonderful commuter. It get's great mileage, it can be extremely well equipped. It's just not a car that I would want to spend 8-12 hours a day in for 4-5 days, once a month.

That's why I've advocated some of the larger, plusher cars.

 

[Disturbed07]

I don't count the V-6's, because I couldnt retain dignity in one of them, so I'd never buy one, and they're a really sad excuse for a muscle car.

240SX's do NOT have 240HP - 240SX's come to America. They have 200HP
Silvia's:::Can get a 240HP motor, 10 years ago, but even they won't run 13's in stock trim, and no, the gears are not designed for any other car, they are designed for them.

I'm sure it is widely known that Firebirds have crap suspension's, to you, and other import fanatics who've never owned one, and your entitled to your opinion.

I must however, note the fact that you claim them great handling cars, then explain that's why they're drift cars..... Do I need to explain that drifting isnt the fast way to go about a corner? Do I need to explain that they're drifting Vipers, GTO's, and Mustang's? so what's the big deal?

 

[Ev0]

240SX's do NOT have 240HP - 240SX's come to America. They have 200HP
Silvia's:::Can get a 240HP motor, 10 years ago, but even they won't run 13's in stock trim, and no, the gears are not designed for any other car, they are designed for them.

I just had the same problem as you had with me. I'm talking about 240s with an SR20DET in them. And for the record, 240s have 160-155hp stock, depending on the model year.

I'm sure it is widely known that Firebirds have crap suspension's, to you, and other import fanatics who've never owned one, and your entitled to your opinion.

Firebirds are not known for their handling... this is widely known. I don't need to own one to figure this out. Unless everything I've ever read about them is wrong...

And I am not an import fanatic. I will like a car if it is good, not based on who made it.

I must however, note the fact that you claim them great handling cars, then explain that's why they're drift cars..... Do I need to explain that drifting isnt the fast way to go about a corner? Do I need to explain that they're drifting Vipers, GTO's, and Mustang's? so what's the big deal?

I was waiting for you to bring up drifting.

Firstly, 240s are popular drift cars, because they handle very well, and because they are RWD, the most popular drivetrain for drifters. They are also widely available, and have a large aftermarket. This makes them ideal for drifting, especially for beginners.

Secondly, yes, I know drifting is not the fastest way around a corner (most of the time...), anyone who is not a complete idiot can figure this out. This is not the point though. Drifting is more of a showcase of a driver's car control, not of their speed. Anyone who completely dismisses drifting as a form of motorsport clearly knows nothing about it.

And I am well aware of American drift cars. The Falken Mustang just won a D1 event in the US if I'm not mistaken. But cars like the GTO, the Viper, and the Mustang are being used in drift competitions because they all have a good chassis (or at least one that's much more rigid than their predecessors), so their handling is good. The new Mustang has excellent handling for any sort of sports car. The old one was virtually useless in the corners. The Viper is becoming much less of a handful (although it still has a far way to go, at least in stock form), and the GTO is a very underrated car (although it is hardly a true American muscle car; its a rebadged Vauxhall designed in Australia).

 

[Disturbed07]

I just had the same problem as you had with me. I'm talking about 240s with an SR20DET in them. And for the record, 240s have 160-155hp stock, depending on the model year. HEY! we arent talking about MODIFIED! remember? I thought these cars werent modified?
didnt he say a 180SX, anyway???????? they only have what? 200hp in Japan?
Clearly you don't know that they sold Turbo 240's in America. 200HP. Thank You, Goodnight!
Hell, GT4 would tell you that.

Firebirds are not known for their handling... this is widely known. I don't need to own one to figure this out. Unless everything I've ever read about them is wrong...

I don't know, what'd you read? I've seen them handle good. This is where your definition and mine differ. My idea of good handling, means lots of grip, therefore it can turn fast, yours is likely a good feel, lack of lean, solid chassis, and so forth, while both are correct, measuring grip is a far more accurate way to see which will corner faster.

And I am not an import fanatic. I will like a car if it is good, not based on who made it.
Everybody says that, but when push comes to shove, some people stand op for some cars, usually leaning strongly towards one region of the world.

I was waiting for you to bring up drifting.

If you're wondering, I didnt read this part.
I know the Viper kicked ass last year, and is being replaced due to being so expensive, and Dodge wants to help sales with it's drifting cars.(in other words, a Charger is FAR more buyable for people, especially drift fans)
I also don't care about a "sport" where all you do is try to look flashy, instead of going fast. Otherwise, I'd watch playground basketball instead of pros. But I prefer the best, the fast, and more true skill on display. i.e., if you can take a hand off the wheel,open the door, and kick you leg out, it aint that hard, so don't bother telling me it is. Unless you can do that with REAL racing? (note the refusal to call it "grip" racing.)

Firstly, 240s are popular drift cars, because they handle very well, and because they are RWD, the most popular drivetrain for drifters. They are also widely available, and have a large aftermarket. This makes them ideal for drifting, especially for beginners.

Secondly, yes, I know drifting is not the fastest way around a corner (most of the time...), anyone who is not a complete idiot can figure this out. This is not the point though. Drifting is more of a showcase of a driver's car control, not of their speed. Anyone who completely dismisses drifting as a form of motorsport clearly knows nothing about it.

And I am well aware of American drift cars. The Falken Mustang just won a D1 event in the US if I'm not mistaken. But cars like the GTO, the Viper, and the Mustang are being used in drift competitions because they all have a good chassis (or at least one that's much more rigid than their predecessors), so their handling is good. The new Mustang has excellent handling for any sort of sports car. The old one was virtually useless in the corners. The Viper is becoming much less of a handful (although it still has a far way to go, at least in stock form), and the GTO is a very underrated car (although it is hardly a true American muscle car; its a rebadged Vauxhall designed in Australia).

It's making me type something to submit it.

 

[Ev0]

Ok, last post I'm making here; it feels like I'm talking to a brick wall.

1) Nissan of North America never sold turbo 240s. In Europe and Japan, yes. North America, no.
2) The Firebird only has lots of grip so it can effectively use its massive V8. But in order for a car to handle well, it must have good grip, a stiff chassis, and a properly tuned suspension. The Firebird does not have all three.
3) Like it or not, there are some very skilled drivers in drift.

And I'm done.

 

[Gil]

I don't count the V-6's, because I couldnt retain dignity in one of them, so I'd never buy one, and they're a really sad excuse for a muscle car.

First off, we aren't talking about you, or your fragile sense of "dignity". Or do you not count them cause it proves you wrong? And that's what really bruises your dignity.
Secondly, the V-6's aren't slouches. They'll run with the "maid's car" mentioned in the first post.
Thirdly, is there a reason for all this arrogance? Are you feeling inadequate in some other area?

You say you'll acknowledge when you are wrong, if you are brought proof. At least that's what your sig says. (sindce you attempted to use my sig for your argument) You've been brought viable proof on the Mustang /Camaro debate, yet it doesn't seem to be good enough for you.
The base models and the Cobra have the same or more HP as the Camaro, and they weigh less. Yet you've tried to "smack me down" numerous times.
Even when I've been patient, firm, and condescending. And I've admitted when and where I have been wrong. Neither approach seems to work with you. You are what we call "dogmatic". Even in the face of being proven wrong you cling so tightly to your infomation.
Someone did you a great dis-service informing you that you are in the top 2.2% of the population for intelligence. While it may even be true, you seem to be in the same percentile at the bottom of the pack for listening to and accepting new information presented by others.
It takes no "pecker-heft" to be right and say you're right.
It takes a lot more to admit to being wrong.

 

[High-Test]

GET AN SC300!!!!!

Mine went 170,6XX trouble free miles. (then died 4 times in november due to my friend attaching the jumper cables to both terminals fried half the fusebox)

(they come in automatics too, Gil, but you most likely knew that already)


Reasons for an SC300

1. Quite good gas mileage (22 ish, maybe more on the highway)
2. Lexus ride quality
3. Very nice interior for an early 90's car
4. That 2JZ exhaust note..
5. Great A/C

 

[Disturbed07]

First off, we aren't talking about you, or your fragile sense of "dignity". Or do you not count them cause it proves you wrong? And that's what really bruises your dignity.
Secondly, the V-6's aren't slouches. They'll run with the "maid's car" mentioned in the first post.
Thirdly, is there a reason for all this arrogance? Are you feeling inadequate in some other area? .

Right here is where I stopped, did you just insinuate that I have a small thingy? ( i dont think we're allowed to say its name) are you that far empty that you're using the old, mine's bigger than your's?
This is definetly the saddest post I have ever seen, on any forum.
Have a nice Day, and good luck with that thing you like talking about

 

[Max_DC]

I think his Dad will have to take a plane, we won't come to a decision in near future....

 

[Disturbed07]

A plane could be just as cheap, minus the car repairs, maint, etc...

 

[ExigeEvan]

[/color]

Right here is where I stopped, did you just insinuate that I have a small thingy? ( i dont think we're allowed to say its name) are you that far empty that you're using the old, mine's bigger than your's?
This is definetly the saddest post I have ever seen, on any forum.
Have a nice Day, and good luck with that thing you like talking about
[/color]

He could have been referring to many other parts of the anatomy.

Some men feel insecure about their hair, their strength, their job, their ability to provide for their family...

So for you to specify the penis is an awfuly strange thing.

And this thread really does need to get back on track.

 

[Disturbed07]

wow, an idiot, that thinks he was insinuating something else.... and tries to make the same overly sad joke.... and people try calling me immature, or stupid

 

[Gil]

I knew that you'd go there. Re-read that part you copied for your post. That second and third sentence cover what I was asking about.
However, with your supposed intelligence, it seems that you have a complex about being wrong or proved wrong.
Granted, I used the term "pecker-heft". However, I spent a lot of time in the South and it's a term that I kinda like.

Can you be wrong and live with yourself? I don't think so.
You have arrogance by the bushel-full. And that is my last reply to you in this thread.
In all my time here you are only the third person that I've run into that just couldn't stand to see another point of view or have someone tell you that you're wrong.
Out of curiousity have you ever been known by the nick Allah-Almighty?


High-test
I know that the SC 300 and 400 come with autos. I've actually only seen one with a manual, and it was in a magazine article.