Damage in future updates of the game

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Mulan

Mulan

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I searched and cannot see a seperate damage thread, if there is then delete.

But i would hope a thread with damagemodel as specific topic may
get more attention if PD happens to see this forum, but also fun to speculate what is possible to do on PS4 and how important it is to have this modelled as good as possible.

So my main points/questions in this department is (each point can be discussed for it self) if possible and how detailed should it be?

1: Damage modell as a whole, how many things should be simulated
2: Visual on car is correctly displayed
3: Driving characteristics are more correctly simulated with damage
4: Trackdamage, debree, oil, carparts
5: Raceconsequences of damage
(flags,pitstops, stop and go...)
6: Cost of repair, penalty
7: Mechanical damage, fatigue
8: Other?

Would be fun and interesting to hear what you think is possible and still fun? But also to give a race more nerve.
 
It should be extremely detailed, only I don't think they will do it. Kaz said he doesn't want to damage cars, no matter how unrealistic that may make the driving/racing.
 
Samus
It should be extremely detailed, only I don't think they will do it. Kaz said he doesn't want to damage cars, no matter how unrealistic that may make the driving/racing.
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Yes,
but they have started showing visual damage that is not so flattering for the car. So they need to choose 2 ways, better modelling or no visual. Still should the effects still be there? And why not do better visuals than today?
Kaz is a racer and he knows that damage and fear of damaging is a racefactor like 24h races he does.

Track and pitstops, safetycar, flags can be more realistic with damages.
Sure car burning dont need to be there.
 
Mulan
Yes,
but they have started showing visual damage that is not so flattering for the car. So they need to choose 2 ways, better modelling or no visual. Still should the effects still be there? And why not do better visuals than today?
Kaz is a racer and he knows that damage and fear of damaging is a racefactor like 24h races he does.

Track and pitstops, safetycar, flags can be more realistic with damages.
Sure car burning dont need to be there.
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I know
IMO fully destructible or not at all.
 
I think the main reason for the damage being so unrealistic is because of licensing reasons. It would be very difficult to get 1,000 car licenses to allow actual full blown damage. The reason why games like NFS and Grid can do it is because they have a much smaller car list.
 
If they port the engine from Gt6 onto ps4(which is the plan from what I have gathered) It's an extremely unlikely area to see improvement.As far as I can remember It is difficult for game companies to convince Car makers to allow extensive generic damage as some cars are better in accidents than others which wouldnt be shown in a generic model,and also makes their pretty little cars less pretty.
Edit:I've never quite understood the idea behind this.Reason being-if your buying a car because it felt nice or took a 150mph hit better in a video game..well you really shouldn't be driving in the first place(sorry to the people that have done this just..you
know ...my opinion)
 
As far as I know the notion that manufacturers block heavy damage has never been proven. All I know from being an active part of Project CARS is that they don't want to see a) fire or any damage of that sort and b) heavy damage to the passenger cell/area or extreme deformation. Generally speaking though, most manufacturers don't seem to have a problem with body damage, eg:

YEEnSIe1.jpg


full-19230-46239-pcars_2013_02_01_19_11_07_19.png


What they don't want to see is this sort of thing:

86279c0a4e80c23cd6399bf85aae3f23d2e50266.png

1302494089_Crash3.png

0_0.jpg
 
But there is more to this than visual effects. Damage and gameplay should be more integrated. Sure we dont need to go all the way in simulatimg damage but at least simulate what happens in the race and on the track after a accident. That shouldnt be a license problem.
Dont know games that do this all the way.
 
I remember my car catching fire after a crash in Richard Burns Rally on the PS2, that was an awesome game. Kaz doesn't want damage in the game full stop, what we have now is just a compromise because a lot of fans want it, & it looks awful to boot. It's supposed to look like scratches to the bodywork (in GT6), but to me it looks more like dust or something. It's very poorly done, but not as bad as the melting wax abomination of a damage model that we had in GT5. I doubt anything will significantly improve for GT7.
 
Damage should not be a priority. At least for those who rarely ever crash, we dont really care about that.
 
It has always bothered me that in Gran Turismo there is no consequence to recklessness. IMO, car racing without damage is pointless. You can just go full throttle around the track. If there's no damage you have no reason to brake. Just let the barriers/opponent's car stop you. Games like codemasters F1 (or even GTA V, for crying out loud) have it right. If you shunt an opponent off the track, chances are your race is over. That's how it should be.
 
emmettbrown1955
It has always bothered me that in Gran Turismo there is no consequence to recklessness. IMO, car racing without damage is pointless. You can just go full throttle around the track. If there's no damage you have no reason to brake. Just let the barriers/opponent's car stop you. Games like codemasters F1 (or even GTA V, for crying out loud) have it right. If you shunt an opponent off the track, chances are your race is over. That's how it should be.
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There's mechanical damage in online mode, and penalties too.
 
Mulan
But there is more to this than visual effects. Damage and gameplay should be more integrated. Sure we dont need to go all the way in simulatimg damage but at least simulate what happens in the race and on the track after a accident. That shouldnt be a license problem.
Dont know games that do this all the way.
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From what we're hearing, Grid Autosport integrates damage exceedingly well, in that cars accumulate damage and you have to pay for all repairs. Forza (limited to 4 in my experience) also fines you for damage. The damage modelling of unique parts is pretty top-notch too.

@NixxxoN give up.
 
I don't think GT is the right game for extensive damage modelling, there's other games that already do it better and having it just for the sake of it is not enough of a reason for me. It seems evident that the GT engine isn't geared for this sort of modelling anyway, given the frame rate issues as is.

Personally I wish there was a global option to turn all damage off, that's not what I play GT for. If I want to smash stuff I'll play a different game.

That said, one of my fondest memories in over 30 years of gaming was snapping the axle under hard acceleration down the straight of Watkins Glen in Grand Prix Legends.
 
I don't think visible damage needs to be changed. I now it looks really bad compared to other games but I think more mechanical stuff should be added and worked on. Even Kaz himself in the real world has dealt with blown gearboxes, differentials and whatnot so he should at least add that into his "Real Driving Simulator". You're not changing the way the car looks by making the underneath damage more realistic.

If I could have my way (which I can't) I'd have mechanical damage like in the F1 games where you can blow engines, damage gear boxes and suspension without even hitting anyone. That'd make longer races a little better instead of a 30+ lap race with "Oh, I don't give a toss if I crash in the first corner" attitude we get online.
GRID Autosport does seem to integrate it very well but that stems from the F1 games and earlier GRID games as well as TOCA. It might be a little too severe in Autosport with the way things wear down during the race (It is only a game after all) but it's good they're doing it in either case. Kaz needs to employ some ex-employees of Codemasters.
 
It was so much fun to see that thick cloud of smoke from far away in Geoff Crammond's GP. I tried to guess who was on fire before I'd get close enough to find out... :)
 
NixxxoN
Damage should not be a priority. At least for those who rarely ever crash, we dont really care about that.
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This is not true in reality. Check F1 starts, there is many times crashes at first corner fighting for position.
But they also have panalties for this if reckless and then you have the reality of limited engines and spare parts you can use during a season so racing is in many ways alot of tactics not just throttle all the way and win whatever you do.
And there is a reason for yellow flags, safety cars, pitstops, stop and go and so on...
 
Mulan
This is not true in reality. Check F1 starts, there is many times crashes at first corner fighting for position.
But they also have panalties for this if reckless and then you have the reality of limited engines and spare parts you can use during a season so racing is in many ways alot of tactics not just throttle all the way and win whatever you do.
And there is a reason for yellow flags, safety cars, pitstops, stop and go and so on...
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Yeah but this is not reality nor professional racing and never will be.
It sucks if your car gets destroyed on the start of a race and you can't continue... Its realistic yes, but i'd rather have undestroyable cars like now, and penalty system so crash kids/noobs can't ruin your race completely, and they will get penalised.
 
NixxxoN
Yeah but this is not reality nor professional racing and never will be.
It sucks if your car gets destroyed on the start of a race and you can't continue... Its realistic yes, but i'd rather have undestroyable cars like now, and penalty system so crash kids/noobs can't ruin your race completely, and they will get penalised.
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You could always switch said damage off.

...like you can do in any other racing game.
 
i dont care so much of the visuals, but i would greatly appreciate better simulation of mechanical damage (losing a wheel, wing etc or atleast blown tire). This is a big part of racing dynamics. I dont even like the fact that one can coast to finish with no fuel.. wtf? also to get as realistic crash zones as possible - touching a soft bodypanel (i.e. bumper) vs hitting say rear wheel should have very different effects. My goal here is that one just couldnt drive if hitting other cars all the time - or in strategic sense one could take the risk of pushing to the edge and risking ones own race while doing it. thats what some race drivers do in real life. (likes of Senna and Schumacher..)

The damage model might not just be a problem of licensing or man power, but it also demands a lot from the games core and from the console running the game. They might not want to compromise the performance of the game..
 
NixxxoN
Yeah but this is not reality nor professional racing and never will be.
It sucks if your car gets destroyed on the start of a race and you can't continue... Its realistic yes, but i'd rather have undestroyable cars like now, and penalty system so crash kids/noobs can't ruin your race completely, and they will get penalised.
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Perhaps not but they use the game for finding real drivers in academy races. So they sure do alot to convince me that with this game you can be a real racingdriver if you are good enough in the game. So i really think damage should be included in better way than today.
 
The Stig Farmer
You could always switch said damage off.

...like you can do in any other racing game.
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Turning damage off wont penalise the ones crashing from behind that I said.
Mulan
Perhaps not but they use the game for finding real drivers in academy races. So they sure do alot to convince me that with this game you can be a real racingdriver if you are good enough in the game. So i really think damage should be included in better way than today.
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I dont think they look who crash or not crash to determine which driver is good. I mean you can not crash and be a bad/slow driver and vice-versa.
 
Mulan
I
1: Damage modell as a whole, how many things should be simulated
2: Visual on car is correctly displayed
3: Driving characteristics are more correctly simulated with damage
4: Trackdamage, debree, oil, carparts
5: Raceconsequences of damage
(flags,pitstops, stop and go...)
6: Cost of repair, penalty
7: Mechanical damage, fatigue
8: Other?
Click to expand...
Other games are doing much of this, including the upcoming (PS3) Grid Autosport and IMO it's going to have to be standard practice on the PS4 for any game wishing to call itself a "simulation". If someone doesn't like it they can always turn it off. The buildup of dirt and grime and subtle wear and tear as on this BMW (PCars) will be the new standard on PS4.
 
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Samus
Here we go again.....
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Perhaps there are players like this, but damage can be so
much more than graphics or crashes. But sure if we stick to his way of thinking then we dont need pitstops, tuning, tyres, rain, night...
 
The return of persistent damage that was 100% planned prior to the very launch is much more important at this point.

There is only that much that can be done with the PS3 RAM in the real-time and *any* kind of real-time damage is significantly taxing on the both CPU and RAM.

However, from the overall grand scheme of actual gameplay-design and main GT philosophy of the "ownership/maintenance" aspect of the series, the planned "persistent damage" should be (re)introduced in the GT6.

So, what am I talking about? About this. Notice the difference between those screens:

1410697_681034945248595_1763475096_o.jpg

i1a30SWnYQyxLhB.jpg


What is the "Body Repair"? Well, let us check what the Official GT6 Online Manual was saying about that on the DEC 5th (the following description was removed on Dec 6th and replaced with the one currently available):


Damage, Dirt and Deterioration

The distance you have driven in a car is displayed on the odometer. Driving over long distances causes engine condition, oil condition and body rigidity to gradually deteriorate. This is known as "deterioration". Your car's body will also get dirty, and may suffer dents or scratches as a result of collisions or crashes. This is known as "damage". If your car has suffered damage or if its condition has started to deteriorate, please visit the Pit Service in order to repair your car.

Deterioration and damage are dealt with in the following ways, depending on the race mode:

Career Mode
Deterioration and damage incurred while racing remains once a race is complete. If you cancel a race before it is finished, your car's condition will deteriorate, but damage will be reset.

Free Run
Your car will incur deterioration and damage while driving, but as soon as you quit the Free Run, the damage will be reset.

Arcade Mode
Your car will incur deterioration and damage while racing, but both deterioration and damage are reset as soon as you select "Quit" from the Race Menu.
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Please PD, give us this functionality soon.
 
Oh true, but it seems like they put it in there almost as a oilchange feature and removed it.
I mean as oilchange, it is just another klick you need to do and cost is very small. But if they really do it all the way i can see this evolve. But id like to see this part as a pitstop thing, go into pitstop and change wing, repair some damage and so on..that would make long races interresting.
 
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