Deciding Cadillac's Future: (Post #63) XTS Replaces STS/DTS, ATS Announced

[McLaren]

Well, you've got a few years to enjoy them. My guess is the BLS will look somewhat like the current car, obviously modernized just a bit, and the ULS (replacing the STS and DTS) will probably look like the Sixteen Concept.

...And there's nothing wrong with liking the DTS, the problem is, the Buick Lucerne is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better.

True, but I think GM's making a mistake. As Tor said, they just got done perfecting the STS. It's a great looking Cadillac.

As for making the Sixteen designs...Ugh, maybe. I'm not too keen on it, and I'd highly prefer they get to work on the Cien.

 

[YSSMAN]

The problem with the STS, no matter how much I like it, and no matter how good of a car it really is, it just hasn't been a sales success for Cadillac. My guess is that their assumption largely centers around the duality of the large sedan in their fleet, that being that someone would have to decide between the DTS and STS, and in many cases, people choose the DTS despite it not holding a candle to the STS in almost every measurement.

The ULS replacement should be a worthwhile investment; Cleans up the lineup, limits confusion, and puts the balance between cars and trucks... Of course, that largely depends on if they move the SRX to Sigma II or just outright replace it with the (smaller) BRX anyway.

And the Cien?

Its coming. It will probably be mid-engined too. Probably will start at $100K, but then again, all of this depends on the Corvette and the new chassis.

 

[YSSMAN]

Talk About a Shake-Up At Cadillac*
*and the hijacking of an old thread in the interest of a Cadillac-specific one

Remember the Sixteen Concept?

Well, Cadillac is building it. Kind-of. The skin of the Sixteen concept will be grafted onto the forthcoming XTS, the "promised since forever" flagship for Cadillac. The XTS will be replacing both the STS and the DTS, diving deep into S-class and 7-series territory. Which platform is it on? A good question, as no one really knows. There was talk that it could run on a mega-stretched Epsilon-II chassis (Saab 9-5, Buick LaCrosse), which seems somewhat reasonable, but its hard to tell. The car may end up being the debut vehicle for GM's next-generation V8 program, which leads to a whole other mess of things. Will this be the first car to use their rumored 8-speed automatic as well? Will it be FWD? AWD? RWD? All we know is that it "looks like the Sixteen, just smaller." But, we'll know more this winter...



BMW, We Challenge You to a Duel

The ATS is a smaller car than the CTS and will take direct aim at the heart of the 3-Series. The model shown was a two-door coupe with a roof-line closer in shape to the CTS sedan rather than the extreme fastback profile of the CTS coupe. The overall design is an evolution of the current CTS with headlights that stretch back across the top of the fender line. Although no one would confirm the platform underneath, they did say it would be rear- and all-wheel drive, just like a 3. Earlier in the morning, new Cadillac general manager Brian Nesbitt said the next generation CTS is already under development and would be new from the ground up. It seems reasonable to assume that it is being developed to allow for a shorter version for the ATS.

It must be "Promise Day" at GM. Like the XTS, the ATS (now on its third name?) has been talked about forever with no real results. Recall upon last update that the BLS (Saab 9-3) was an unsuccessful attempt by Cadillac to take a shot at BMW in Europe, which failed entirely. Reports had been that the BLS was to be replaced by a 3-series sized, RWD sedan based on a shrunken Zeta architecture (Camaro, etc) called Alpha. Instead, it appears as though the ATS will ride on something entirely different. Nice.

Considering how square of a shot the CTS was on both the 3-series and the 5-series, and given that they will now be able to focus single vehicles at both of the German models, I do have high hopes for the ATS. With four and six cylinder engines to be made available, in RWD or AWD, Cadillac knows what they're going for. The idea of a 2.8T V6 ATS with RWD is tantalizing, at the least. Fingers crossed that they get this one right!



EDIT: Almost Forgot...

How Do You Like Your CTS-V?

• As a sedan
• As a coupe
• As a wagon*

*Yes, I said wagon. Sad that we didn't get the G8 Estate with the GXP package? This will do, right?

 

[Omnis]

*Yes, I said wagon. Sad that we didn't get the G8 Estate with the GXP package? This will do, right?

No, because the G8 Estate looked great and the CTSW looks like crap.

 

[Paulie]

Good and exciting news for Cadillac. More interested in this next gen V8 though. Is that to be the evolution of the SBC? Any rumours on what's going in it to make it better?

PS- I hope we get a Holden version from this ATS platform, I'd love a 370Z fighting Holden coupe with a 3.6L V6.

 

[JCE]

Remember the Sixteen Concept?

Well, Cadillac is building it. Kind-of. The skin of the Sixteen concept will be grafted onto the forthcoming XTS, the "promised since forever" flagship for Cadillac. The XTS will be replacing both the STS and the DTS, diving deep into S-class and 7-series territory. Which platform is it on? A good question, as no one really knows. There was talk that it could run on a mega-stretched Epsilon-II chassis (Saab 9-5, Buick LaCrosse), which seems somewhat reasonable, but its hard to tell. The car may end up being the debut vehicle for GM's next-generation V8 program, which leads to a whole other mess of things. Will this be the first car to use their rumored 8-speed automatic as well? Will it be FWD? AWD? RWD? All we know is that it "looks like the Sixteen, just smaller." But, we'll know more this winter...

Crap. Pure crap. GM just build the damned Sixteen as-is and be done with it. Don't build some smaller version with the craptastic interiors and boring engines from GM. If you want respect and admiration from the world build the damned Sixteen as it was in concept form. It was utterly brilliant. Then after lots of rich people and rappers buy it make a Twelve that will compete with the 7-series and S-class then make a Ten that competes with the 5-series and E-series. See a pattern here? Cadillac needs to be brought back into class and luxury not rebadged GM scrap heaps with crappy faux luxury interiors.

The Sixteen is the way to go, period. Anything less is rubbish.

 

[homeforsummer]

Crap. Pure crap. GM just build the damned Sixteen as-is and be done with it. Don't build some smaller version with the craptastic interiors and boring engines from GM. If you want respect and admiration from the world build the damned Sixteen as it was in concept form. It was utterly brilliant. Then after lots of rich people and rappers buy it make a Twelve that will compete with the 7-series and S-class then make a Ten that competes with the 5-series and E-series. See a pattern here? Cadillac needs to be brought back into class and luxury not rebadged GM scrap heaps with crappy faux luxury interiors.

The Sixteen is the way to go, period. Anything less is rubbish.

I agree completely. A number of companies have already proved that you can essentially produce your concept car for the mass market and people will buy it. They have also proved that no matter how bad the economy gets, there are still people who are stinking rich who can afford to buy your car with a silly price tag (step forward, Aston Martin One-Eleven).

As long as Cadillac could make the Sixteen cheaply enough that they don't lose money on every single one and burn their fingers, then they could sell it for a ridiculous price to rappers, footballers and anyone else who earns more than they're worth to society, and the proceeds from this can go - as you mention - towards a whole range of brilliant Cadillacs that are much more affordable for the average Joe. And perhaps the marque could then return to brilliance and be a true American Rolls-Royce.

 

[Omnis]

Even then the sixteen is garbage. It looks preposterous.

 

[homeforsummer]

That's the idea though. A Rolls Royce Phantom is hardly subtle. And an Escalade certainly isn't - at least the Sixteen looks better than that monstrosity.

 

[ND4SPD]

The idea of a CTS-V in wagon and coupe form is win.

 

[Philly]

I think the Sixteen would be terrible as a replacement for the STS/DTS. The XTS has to be set up for volume sales. Give it a V8, RWD platform and a great luxury interior, and I think it'll do just fine. Especially if it's in or below the $50,000-$55,000 range like the current cars are. I'm sure GM has the ability to do it, the only question is whether or not they get any fancy ideas that ruin the project.

As for making the Sixteen as a Rolls-Royce competitor type thing, I think it would be awesome. Give the General a bit of time to get back on its feet and there probably would be the money needed for it. It wouldn't need to sell in high numbers, but as a halo car it would probably do an excellent job of advertising to the public. And then maybe GM can use the engine in some kind of mad supercar...

 

[YSSMAN]

I agree that the Sixteen should have been built years ago, but even at the time, it was not a sustainable project. As of now? Timing could be far worse, but they could possibly do it. But, Phil made the most-excellent point. The XTS has to replace the STS and DTS. Furthermore, it has to replace the Buick Lucerne as well (I hear its dead). Making a truly "living large" Cadillac that can be a legitimate competitor to the 7 and S-series is an achievable goal. The main thing is that GM needs to be a bit more specific on what the car will be, other than big. Looking at the progress on the new Cadillacs, as well as the new LaCrosse, I have little fear in the face of them doing luxurious trimmings. What I would be more concerned about would be the engineering. Anything less than RWD, or AWD, would be grounds for riot. Furthermore, high-po V6s and V8s should be standard across the board. Its time that the flagship Cadillac becomes the test-bed for luxury, performance and other technology again... The XTS could be it.