default value, thoughtfull or stupid?

[sucahyo]

I see some of default value, I guess PD doesn't think anything when designing game default value for FC anything. Some of them using predefined value, some of them using same value for all car. This is what I think (please correct me if I post wrong data):

Spring rate: predefined value, depend on car model, multiply of stock value, wagon or sedan treated the same way. So this means we can't rely on this. Definitely not designed to be the optimal spring rate.

Ride height: same for every car, not optimal setting too.

Damper: same for every car, not optimal setting too (maybe calculation from internal damper multiplier).

Camber : same for every car, definitely not optimal setting too. I wonder why everyone think this is the optimal setting though.

Toe : zero for every car, but maybe optimal for some car.

Stabilizer : same for every car, not optimal setting too.

Brake balance controller : same for every car, not optimal setting too.

Gear : depend on car, some random value (usually different from stock).

Downforce : same for every car, not optimal setting too.

LSD : same for every car, not optimal setting too (usually different from stock).

What all of this means?

Don't think the default value is what PD think the best value for the car, use your own testing.

 

[luftrofl]

The default value is a good guideline, but definitely not the best setting. PD probably went through and found that it was an average setting for each car and decided to use it rather than leaving tuning entirely up to the driver.

 

[Scaff]

The default value is a good guideline[/u], but definitely not the best setting. PD probably went through and found that it was an average setting for each car and decided to use it rather than leaving tuning entirely up to the driver.

I don't personally think that the default values are even a good guideline in a lot of cases.

The default damper settings are (IMHO) far to stiff, and a default brake bias that is equal is again far from ideal.

The problem exists in that no one setting is optimal for all circuits, cars or drving styles.

What it does mean is that almost every car will drive far, far better if you take the time to set it up, and in a lot of cases a car that was fine with 'stock' parts can be a nightmare to drive with FC parts if you don't tune it.

This can be seen with a lot of cars at the Nurburgring, stock they are OK, fit FC and don't tune and they are a lot of the time far too stiff.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Uncle Harry]

In my opinion the racing suspension is only useful in default settings when you have race tires, roll cage and down force added.
A stock car on sport tires just has to much flex in the chasis to handle the hard default settings of the full racing suspension.

 

[sucahyo]

PD probably went through and found that it was an average setting for each car and decided to use it rather than leaving tuning entirely up to the driver.

I don't think PD will bother to do that at all . I think they create a generic formula based on stock car properties.

How do you manage to achieve such a high level of realism and accuracy for the cars featured in the GT series?

The team doesn't actually take cars to the circuit and put the feedback into the game. It's actually quite the opposite. The team has a special physics engine for calculation; if they input the basic specifications of the car - the size, the weight, the format of the engine layout and the power, that usually gives them quite an accurate calculation of how that car should perform.

So once you have a basic idea of the car, you can calculate the performance. How do you know how accurate it is? Do you get feedback from testers and test drivers?

In general, the best feedback comes from the actual test drivers within each manufacturer. Next would be racing drivers and third would be motor journalists, who have lots of experience driving these cars.

I guess they use calculation for everything. It's close to impossible for manufacturer's test driver to create a tuned version of their car. If it is human made, I think it's kazunari himself or his team that create this, so think default setting as kazunori tuning, a big IF though.

I don't personally think that the default values are even a good guideline in a lot of cases.

Agree .

In my opinion the racing suspension is only useful in default settings when you have race tires, roll cage and down force added.

Do you start tuning using the default setting when you equip that?

 

[Uncle Harry]

Do you start tuning using the default setting when you equip that?

I usually lower spring and damper settings before I drive any car with Full Race suspension. For FWD I normally increase rear springs to just a bit lower than the front to make the car rotate easier. The harder rear spring resists the downward moment and thus the wheel slides more. ( I am sure Scaff will give a more correct description but to me that is the easisest way to describe what happens in general terms).

At the moment I am having fun driving stock cars which have lower limits.
The Audi 3.2 A3 is good fun stock.
It understeers but can be provoked into oversteer by lifting of the gas or tapping the brakes just before the apex. If you get it right it will even 4 wheel drift on some corners. It gets interesting when it goes wrong and shifts from oversteer to understeer on coner exit. I can feel which end has lost grip by the attitude of the car in relation to the corner. ( To put it another way you could say "feel" is the speed the car appears to rotate around a corner).
To help you with "feel" I find the following best describes the "feel" of each condition around a corner when viewing the TV screen.
Understeer = appears slow rotation around corner.
Neutral = normal rotation around corner. (feels you could go faster).
Oversteer =appears as faster rotation around corner and needs counter steering to slow the rotation. (this does not mean I have faster corner speed)
4 wheel drift. = you can Maintain corner speed and rotation with 0 steering lock. Hard to do.

 

[RXGem]

Sucahyo,

I was wondering, with your ability to hack into the game is it possible to find the settings of a car that does not have any FC parts?

Everything from brake balance to suspension settings to gear ratio's to LSD settings.. everything. Even AYC.. As a program every value has to be written into the system..

Maybe this can shed some light into why default settings are the way they are and I'm sure this will help all tuners tune for balance.

 

[sucahyo]

I usually lower spring and damper settings before I drive any car with Full Race suspension. For FWD I normally increase rear springs to just a bit lower than the front to make the car rotate easier. The harder rear spring resists the downward moment and thus the wheel slides more.

I see.

It gets interesting when it goes wrong and shifts from oversteer to understeer on coner exit.

The understeer can't be removed?

I can feel which end has lost grip by the attitude of the car in relation to the corner.

I usually test it by making the car goes sideways, if both end slide evenly then my setting is correct. If for example, the front get left behind (more grip), I will reduce front grip or increase rear grip.

4 wheel drift. = you can Maintain corner speed and rotation with 0 steering lock. Hard to do.

I just experience that , I don't know that Falken GT-R is 4WD, and yet trying to drift it anyway (in DSJ vol 12). I thought all skyline race car is FR .

I was wondering, with your ability to hack into the game is it possible to find the settings of a car that does not have any FC parts?

Unfortunately I can not test all of that, only some, I still don't know how to increase credit/money. All suspension setting of a car is grouped into one place, any change to this will affect the physics, with this I can post +120 toe picture without using FC suspension .

This is what I know:
Stock Skyline GTS-T Type M (R32) hacked data. The address is changed everytime.


038B550C:
gears, from reverse, 1st trough 5th. it reads: 3.909 3.909 2.238 1.520 1.156 0.872

038B551C:
final drive. it reads : 3.867

038B552C:
last 2 byte is camber (0/0).

038B553C:
first 4 byte is ride height. then 2 byte of toe. 2 byte of spring rate. 2 byte of internal damper. 6 byte of interface damper.
so, ride height = 140/140, toe = 0/0, spring rate = 2.4/2.1, damper = 1/1 1/1

038B554C:
2 byte of damper. 2 byte of stabilizer. 6 byte of LSD. so, stabilizer = 1/1, LSD = 0/5 0/20 0/10.

 

[RXGem]

Interesting.. I wonder why they are all on the softest settings..

 

[sucahyo]

Interesting.. I wonder why they are all on the softest settings..

Maybe they don't consider it sport car?